Why should we pray to Virgin Mary? The reasons are many.
Why do Catholics pray to Mother Mary? Is Rosary really powerful?
The intercession of Mother Mary is very powerful as Jesus cannot neglect His mothers commands.This can be proved by the first miracle Jesus did at the wedding at Cana. – (John 2:1-11). Mother Mary told Jesus “They have no more wine.” And what was the final result? He turned water into wine.
In “The Poem of the Man-God” by Maria Valtorta, she says that Jesus told her about this incident as “I did it for Mary”. This proves that the intercession of Mother Mary is very very strong.
Mother Mary was blessed with Holy Spirit abundantly. We can see this as we read “At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” (Luke 1:39-41) ; just by Virgin Mary’s greeting.
Listen to the talk from Apologetics on Mary, Purgatory and The Bible
What the angels thought on this matter:-
When angel appeared before Zechariah,father of John, angel just greets him by his name ,nothing more although he was “upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commandments and regulations blamelessly.” – (Luke 1:6)
When angel appeared before Joseph, the greeting was like this: “an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” – (Matthew 1:20). Angel greeted him ‘son of david’, thats all.
Now let us see how did the angel greet Virgin Mary. It goes like this: “The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” (Luke 1:28). See the difference….
Also read the article Mary, The Mystical Rose
I’d be more inclined to draw this sort of diagram.
Father
||
Jesus as Mediator (God and Man)
||
Holy Spirit (Mediator)(God IN Man)
——
Of course, God cannot be subdivided like this. To that extent it is greatly misleading. Nevertheless, I think it does demonstrate a more authentically ‘Catholic’ approach to the saints (in heaven), than the previous diagram.
We do not turn to those in heaven, in the hope that we might somehow entice God. Quite the contrary. We look to them because in them we see God-Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
It’s like walking through the park and all of a sudden something happens which lifts your mind to God, perhaps a gentle breeze or birds fluttering about in the trees. Or like a Christmas song playing on the radio, when before only secular songs were playing. You pause and listen. Again, your thoughts are drawn to God.
The saints are like the breeze, the birds, and a Christmas Carol. If mere earthly things, infused by the Holy Spirit can be such powerful channels of His grace, how much more the Christian?
By being in their presence, by directing our attention toward those in heaven, our hearts are lifted to God.
They are mediators of grace in this sense: That having first received grace, they become a channel of grace for others. Or to put it this way: Having received the fullness of God in Christ, through the Holy Spirit, they are then in turn able by that same grace to lead others back to God in Jesus Christ, through the power of the Holy Spirit at work in them.
Yet, the Holy Spirit does not produce the same grace (gift) in all. The grace (gift) each has received from Him, varies, as one bodily member varies from another. Yet, this is not without purpose.
Each person is given the grace (gift) they are given, so that they may contribute that grace (gift) to the building up of others. We receive, so that we may in turn give.
We do not merely give what grace prompts us to do, our charitable works, talents and prayers, but ourselves-we give ourselves-everything grace has made us.
This in imitation of Christ who gave Himself, not just His teachings, or His miracles, but His heart, His love. All this occures so that together, we may be brought to the fulness of Him who is full of every grace.
Jesus’ mediatorship is not endangered, because the relation of one Christian (or saint) to another, occurs in Him as His own Body.
Jesus Christ brought divinity and humanity together in His one person, so that humanity (us) might be united to the divine . All this is the work of the Holy Spirit who works for us (is our mediator too), in us and through us for our own salvation and for the salvation of others.
Ultimately, we have a part in bringing Christ to others and brings other to Christ, that’s the mediatorship we possess and that’s really what it comes down too.
As a postscript, perhaps some of the difficulty lies in what we associate with the idea of Christ’s mediatorship.
If Christians believe Jesus appeased God’s wrath/justice or somehow was punished for our sins, in our place; then of course, the idea of anyone other than Christ, being called a mediator is absolutely absurd and offensive. Isn’t Christ enough?????!!!! And thus the ‘catholic’ story goes: Since Christ by His death appeases an angry Father by His merits, now the saints (and primarily Mary), appeases Jesus by their merits and so on and so forth on down the line.
Granted, in Luther’s day, some latched onto this idea and every Christian would be right to oppose it as an affront to God and Christ’s mediatorship.
Yet, as ghastly as it is that we need the mediating ‘power’ of ‘more perfect people’ to appease Christ on our behalf, thus making Him gracious toward us, why are we not equally as appalled that the Father’s good name and gracious, loving nature, is being just as maligned–even still? Why is it okay for the Father needing to be appeased, but not Christ? And if this is part of what mediatorship includes, where does the Holy Spirit come in at? (ie Who and by what means did He appease?)
I and others do not think this way and the Church does not ascribe to any particular ‘atonement theory’. Whatever I may mean by Christians mediating grace, I most definately do not mean that Mary, Paul, Peter ect. is ‘up there’ appeasing Christ/God, making Him more pliable toward us (and our requests).
Happy Holidays.
Catholic doctrine commands members to pray to the virgin Mary well that is manmade rules as you said it Joy it’s a Catholic doctrine command that’s about it. I truly hope you find true meaning before His coming. God Bless You.
13 May 1917
“Do not be afraid, I will not harm you.” “I come from heaven.”
“I have come to ask you to come here for six months on the 13th day of the month, at this same hour. Later I shall say who I am and what I desire. And I shall return here yet a seventh time.”
Lucia then asked if they would go to heaven and she was told yes, she and Jacinta would go to heaven, but Francisco would need to say many rosaries first.
Lucia asked about two young women who had died recently, and was told that one was in heaven and the other, her friend Amelia, would be in purgatory “until the end of world.”
“Are you willing to offer yourselves to God and bear all the sufferings He wills to send you, as an act of reparation for the conversion of sinners?”
“Then you are going to have much to suffer, but the grace of God will be your comfort.”
13 June 1917
“Say the Rosary every day, to bring peace to the world and the end of the war.”
“I want you to come on the 13th of next month, [July] to pray the Rosary every day, and to learn to read. Later, I will tell you what I want.”
“If he is converted, he will be cured during the year.” (reference to a sick person)
“I will take Jacinta and Francisco shortly; but you will stay here for some time to come. Jesus wants to use you to make Me known and loved. He wishes to establish the devotion to My Immaculate Heart throughout the world. I promise salvation to whoever embraces it; these souls will be dear to God, like flowers put by Me to adorn his throne.”
“No, my daughter. Are you suffering a great deal? Don’t lose heart. I will never forsake you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God.”
13 July 1917
“I want you to come here on the 13th of next month, [August] to continue to pray the Rosary every day in honour of Our Lady of the Rosary, in order to obtain peace for the world and the end of the war, because only she can help you.”
“Continue to come here every month. In October, I will tell you who I am and what I want, and I will perform a miracle for all to see and believe.”
Lucia made some requests for sick people, to which Mary replied that she would cure some but not others, and that all must say the rosary to obtain such graces, before continuing: “Sacrifice yourselves for sinners, and say many times, especially when you make some sacrifice: O Jesus, it is for love of You, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for the sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.”
“You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end; but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.
“To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.”
Mary specifically told Lucia not to tell anyone about the secret at this stage, apart from Francisco, before continuing: “When you pray the Rosary, say after each mystery: ‘O my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fire of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are most in need.’ ”
Lucia asked if there was anything more, and after assuring her that there was nothing more, Mary disappeared off into the distance.
August 1917
“Go again to the Cova da Iria on the 13th and continue to say the Rosary every day.
Mary also said she would perform a miracle, so all would believe, and that if they had not been kidnapped it would have been even greater. Lucia then asked how the growing shrine should be administered, and requested cures for the sick, being told that some would be cured during the year.
“Pray, pray very much, and make sacrifices for sinners; for many souls go to hell, because there are none to sacrifice themselves and pray for them.”
13 September 1917
“Continue to pray the Rosary in order to obtain the end of the war. In October Our Lord will come, as well as Our Lady of Dolours and Our Lady of Carmel. Saint Joseph will appear with the Child Jesus to bless the world. God is pleased with your sacrifices. He does not want you to sleep with the rope on, but only to wear it during the daytime.”
Lucia then began to put forward the petitions for cures, to be told: “Yes, I will cure some, but not others. In October I will perform a miracle so that all may believe.”
13 October 1917
“I want to tell you that a chapel is to be built here in my honour. I am the Lady of the Rosary. Continue always to pray the Rosary every day. The war is going to end, and the soldiers will soon return to their homes.”
Lucia made some requests, being informed that people must amend their lives and ask forgiveness of their sins if they wanted healings or conversions. “Do not offend the Lord our God any more, because He is already so much offended.”
*EVERYONE ON THIS PAGE READ CHERYL AND SYLVIA’S COMMENTS. THAT IS EVERYTHING I’M TRYING TO SAY.*
If you still cannot accept these truths, pray to God and read your Bible. That is how all Truth originates.
Loc,
If I was Jesus’s Blessed brother, and I wrote those words thousands of years ago, saying that you were to pray to me for grace, would you do it? If yes, God help you. If no, then what validates prayers to Mary apart from her own words, and apart from the words from Catholic leaders, that explicitly says to pray to her.
soli deo gloria
the truth of this is that, Mary was only a human that is favored by God to bear His only Son to save us from our sins. This event didn’t make her a superhuman with powers to save and answer prayers. the reason that God chose her to bear His Son is that He is pleased with her.
I am sure if Mary knew this is what Catholics do, she wouldn’t want it either.
PRAYING TO ANY OTHER CREATIONS MEANS WORSHIPPING TO THEM ALSO. WORSHIPPING THEM MEANS PUTTING THEM IN GOD’S PLACE. THIS IS IDOLATRY!!
IT DOESN’T PLEASE GOD THAT WE WORSHIP HIM AND ANOTHER CREATION WHICH HE HIMSELF CREATED.
PLEASE CONSIDER THIS, GOD DOESN’T WANT IDOLATERS. THIS IS THE MAIN REASON HE GOT ANGRY TO HIS PEOPLE AND PUNISHED THEM.
WE HURT GOD WHEN WE DO THIS.
God doesn’t require us to have a rosary then pray…
God is concerned with the sincerity in our hearts as we pray.
may the Lord reveal Himself to you.
Seek His truth, it will set you free.
I am a Christian, I believe and pray only to CHRIST
GOD BLESS YOU.
Hi Josiah, if you are Jesus. I have a question.
1. Who took care you after you born until 12 or 15 years old?
2.Who took you to Egypt because King Herod try to killed you?
3. At Cana wedding, Mary said to you “they have no more wine” Why you don’t say NO, my time has not yet come?
John 2:1-11
On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.” “Dear woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied, “My time has not yet come.” His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.” Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons. Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.” They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.” This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.
“Do whatever he tells you.”
Mary did NOT tell Jesus what to do! Mary put her Faith and her Trust in Jesus that Jesus would answer her concern (prayer). When we pray to God, we should NOT be dictating to God what we want God to do for us! Like Mary we should petition the Lord with prayer, to Trust that we are safely in God’s Hands, and have Patience, Faith, and Trust in God to answer our prayers.
King Herod the Great ordered the slaughter of all boys under the age of two years, and Joseph took Mary and Jesus to Egypt for safety. Joseph did not bring his family back to Nazareth until after Herod the Great’s death in 4 b.c
umm… Loc, I’m not Jesus………….
Forget about Mary for a second. Forget about the communion of saints.
When God came and assumed human flesh (like we all have), this union was so great, that the lowly human flesh which can do nothing of its own, shared in God’s attributes. Hence, Jesus could heal, raise the dead, had power over nature, could see into men’s hearts ect. This fact about Jesus is not inconsequential, that is, accidential, when what Jesus really came to impart was solely the forgiveness of sins. He does impart that (the forgiveness of sins), but not only that. Our salvation does not consist solely in the forgiveness of sins, but consists in everything Christ did on our behalf; from being conceived and born, living as a child, teenager, man, was persecuted, died, rose and ascended into heaven where He sits at the right hand of God. In rising, He rose bodily as a man, not merely as God, for Thomas touched the wounds of a man who was three days prior, crucified (in other words, it was the same human flesh which was killed, that came to life again). In ascending, He rose bodily as a man, for the disciples saw Him ascend into heaven and He sits at the right hand of the Father as man, for Stephen who was stoned, saw Him as such.
Now, let’s think seriously about this for a minute. At least one man has divine perogatives. But how can this be? We can’t merely say, ‘Oh but that’s Jesus’, unless by ‘Jesus’ we mean that the hands and spit He used to cure the blind man, were somehow in and of themselves more than human. Or the blood He shed was of itself, more than human. Yet, if we chose this route, we have denied the true humanity of Christ. Many here spoke of Mary being human, well, so was Christ. His humanity didn’t possess any special powers that were not given it, by virtue of it’s union with God. It was the Divine Person working in, through, and in concert with the very real “normal” flesh He had assumed. If Mary gave birth to someone who was not at the same time divine, that child could accomplish nothing. Mary did not impart to Christ some super-human flesh. She imparted to Him, the flesh we all have-Adam’s flesh.
So we have a man with divine perogatives. Surely this is an affront to God-to the divine? No, because God did it. I think we all seriously need to come to terms with the real humanity of Christ, before we start with the whole, “Man can’t be like this…”, because at least one man was and we can’t make a special exception for this one man, without denying that he is indeed a true man like any of us.
So looking at Christ and Christ alone, the premise that, “Man can’t do such and such…He can’t be like this…” is true only insofar as someone is merely a man, but insofar as man is united to God, it’s blatantly false.
Which brings me to my concluding point. By uniting Himself to us throught the Spirit and through a shared humanity, He has infused our own human nature (which can do nothing of it’s own), with His own divine powers. For it is not a human spirit which rests on us, but the Divine Spirit. And it is by this Divine Spirit that:
1) Human lips can cry out to God, Abba Father.
2) Human vocal chords can speak in tongues.
3) Human hands can heal and raise the dead.
4) Human shadows (ie Peter’s) and human bones (ie Elisha’s) possess power.
5) Human hearts can possess faith, hope, love.
6) Human faith can move mountains and do even greater things.
And the list goes on and on…until we are told at last in Scripture that we will sit with the man Christ on the very throne He sits and will reign with Him, will tread serpents (or the serpent) under our feet. He will do all this through us, to the glory of His name.
We are to look to the humanity of Christ as our shining example of what the Father has promised us, through His Son. It’s not that we are God. There are only three persons in the Godhead. We are and will always be human persons-created, yet persons to whom the grace of God has imparted the gifts of Himself and His power.
To say that Mary or anyone can not as a matter of course do this or that because they are only human, is to fail to take into account the divine gifts which they have received from a divine hand who is lavish and whose ‘treasury’ of divine gifts and power is never exhausted, but who distributes to each according to His will.
And it is from this vantage point, from Christ and the salvation He bestows, that we can go onto to say certain things of Mary and of ourselves.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in ‘him’ may not perish but may have eternal life.
Beating around the bush, that is what happening here. Instead of asking directly, man came up with many new ideas like Mary,rosary saints and what not. People are going far from God by adding many mediators in between.Satan is on a mission to keep you far away from God. And sadly to an extend, he is successful.The Scripture didn’t give you the idea of Mary or rosary. We humans came up with that. We are not suppose to show our creativity when it comes to His Words. Believe what it is written in The Bible. Some beliefs are very strong, that it will even hide the truth.
Many people mentioned, we are not worshiping Mary or rosary, they are just the means to God. The following verse might help them.
John 14:13 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son
You must have the faith. And believe in Jesus
God Bless you all
I respect Mary because She got God’s favour to give birth of Jesus. Bible says in Isaiah 9:6 (KJV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. The Son of GOD came as a child into this world and she Got the privilege to give birth of The Child.
But Bible never said to worship or pray to Mary. But bible says Worship only GOD with your spirit with your mind and with your strength.If u search whole New testament we cannot a single incident where people worshipping or praying to Mary.It is true Jesus handed over Mary to Disciple John. Same John wrote one Gospel and Three Epistle but never asked any one of us to pray to Mary. But he wrote these Words of Jesus:- John 15:7 (KJV) If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.Also in John 14:13 (KJV) And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
We have to respect Mary no doubt but we should only to pray to the Father in Heaven thru’ Christ Jesus. Those who accepted Jesus Christ as their personal saviour and become the child of GOD received the Spirit of son ship.Romans 8:14 (KJV) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.Galatians 4:6 (KJV) And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Bible says Hebrews 4:14-16 (KJV)14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.Please note we are asked to go directly to Father thru’ Jesus Christ not thru’ anybody else. If we are trying to approach The FATHER in Heaven thru’ someone other than JESUS CHRIST we are actually saying that we are not =trusting the WORDS of Jesus.This is what Eve also did in the garden of Eden.Not trusting the Word of God is the greatest sin.Eve entered into that sin we all knew what was the after effect of that sin. Please trust the Word of Jesus don’t try to analysis the Word and enter into unbelief.
Pray Only to Father thru’ Jesus. Jesus taught us how to pray. Can anyone show in that prayer the name of Mary. Hold on to Jesus teachings.
The rosary is based upon Scripture.
Here are the ‘prayers’ in the order they traditionally appear:
1.Make a sign of the cross and say:
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen+
2.The Apostle’s creed:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He arose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting. Amen
3.The Lord’s Prayer:
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name; Thy kingdom come; Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. Amen.
4. The Angelic Annoucement and Elizabeth’s Blessing:
Hail, full of grace the Lord is with you.
Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb (Jesus).
conclusion: Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us (sinners) now and at the hour of our deaths. Amen.
5. Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins and save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy. Amen.
6. The Glory Be:
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning is now and will be forever, world without end. Amen.
At this point other prayers are often said. The concluding prayer goes like this:
Let us pray. O God, whose only begotten Son, by His life, death, and resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life, grant, we beseech Thee, that meditating upon these mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the same Christ Our Lord. Amen.
This last prayer in a nutshell is why we pray the rosary. Although we ask Mary to graciously pray for us. It is only in, through, with and because of Christ that we do so-indeed, can do so. We beseech Mary in Jesus’ name. Jesus stands between us and Mary. Jesus mediates between one Christian and another. If we did not pray through Christ and in His name, then beseeching Mary would be pointless. We can only enjoy the company of the saints in heaven, if we are first in the company of Christ.
John,
Perhaps you’ve already mentioned this and I overlooked it. If so, please forgive me. Do you believe we can pray directly to Jesus, or only to the Father in Jesus’ name?
Thanks.
Dear Cheryl,
Praise the Lord.
Bible says- Isaiah 9:6 (KJV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. This verse is about Jesus written almost 700 years before brith of Immanual (GOD is with us).So if we pary to Lord Jesus we are parying to The Father only. According to this verse He himself is Al Mighty GOD & Everlasting Father. Jesus Himself said in John 10:30 (KJV) I and my Father are one. Paul said in Colossians 2:9 (KJV) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. So Jesus is God Himself so we can pary to HIM but at the same time Jesus said we have to Honour the Fahter & He himself said us to pary to Father in HIS Name.
If anyone can understand thru’revelation (not out of the Wisdom of the World) the true meaning of Father The Son and the Holy Spirit then those person will come out from this confusion. Be blessed in JESUS Name.
Alfred Thomas says—People are going far from God by adding many mediators in between.Satan is on a mission to keep you far away from God. And sadly to an extend, he is successful.
Alfred i agree with you that satan is successful to an extent. perhaps, you have seen non-believers, sinners who pray to Mary. but you should meet devotees of Mary who believe in Jesus!
this is true that many non believers and sinners pray(worship)to Mary not because they love her or believe in Jesus, but they just want some favors..they want earthly things, not heavenly.
but anyone knows how many non believers and sinners came to Jesus through Mary??? millions. millions of people all over the world in the past and it’s still happening!
i have a thought for you. if Mary’s devotion is a wark of satan then he must be foolish because many people are coming back to God.
if he is working against himself “then how will his kingdom stand?”Mathew 12:22-32
Mary is just another human that prays to God. We only worship God in Spirit and in Truth. You do not go emotional with these matters. Find the truth of God not the dictates of men.
One can even be better than Mary if he or she believes in the Lord Jesus Christ say. Please read Jesus declaration…
“And it came to pass, as Jesus spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice and said unto him. Blessed is the womb that bare thee and the paps which thou hast sucked”. But Jesus said, “Yeah rather blessed are they that hear the word of God and do it” LUKE 11:27-28
Be advised.
edpaul
John.
I’m confused…are you not Trinitarian?
Dear Cheryl,
I beleive in whole bible( 66 books in the Bible.
I knew & believing The Father, The Son & Holy Spiit.
Jesus said John 17:21 (KJV) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. He said Father is in hIm & HE is in Fahter. Bible alos says GOD is Spirit and LORD is Spirit.
I am experiencing the Love of The Father in Heaven; Jesus Christ is my LORD & Saviour; Holy Spirit is my teacher and guide Who leads me into all Truth.
John 1:1-4 (KJV)1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:14 (KJV) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Be Blessed in Jesus Name.
This debate will go on and on. Here is the bottom line. If you find the need to pray to anyone else but to Christ then there is only one reason why. You don’t know Jesus Christ personally. If you have to go to a third party instead of going straight to Him then, you DON’T know Him and you are missing out on the greatest blessing in life. If I had a personal relationship with the President of the USA, I mean we are close friends, when I need to talk to him, ask him for something would I go to the secretary of state? Maybe the vice-president? These two people are important but again, if I am a close personal friend of the president and he has told me that I can go straight to him 24/7, would I not go to him?
Read carefully…If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ you will never have the need to go through any third party. How di I know this? Its in the Bible and I live it everyday.
I totaly agree with Marcos because I know what he means.As Marcos said I too everyday talk to my elder brother Jesus Christ & also thru’HIM to my Father in Heaven. Holy Spirit always with me and helping me to Live in the Rightousness of Jesus Christ.And it only because of GOD’s GRACE I am able to lead this kind this life.
Testimony and A Study of Catholic Practice and Doctrine
by a Former Catholic NUN (Mary Ann Collins).
Can read it over here.Good one.
http://www.biblebelievers.com/bennett/bennett_mary-worship.html
I’m sorry but I still don’t understand. It seems as if you are saying that the Father and the Son are the same person within the Godhead. Can you clarify I bit better? Thanks.
Marcos,
So what if the debate goes on and on? There are no time limits. So long as people are willing to converse, let them do so.
I think the reason I keep coming back to this discussion is to dispel the misunderstandings that you and others have relayed.
Firstly. As far as I am concerned. There is no need or law or mandate that compels me to speak to Mary. So from my perspective your first statement is based on a faulty premise. Here is your first statement, with the faulty premise(s) bold-faced:
If you find the need to pray to anyone else but to Christ then there is only one reason why. You don’t know Jesus Christ personally. If you have to go to a third party instead of going straight to Him then, you DON’T know Him and you are missing out on the greatest blessing in life.
This is reiterated once more in your last statement. Again:
Read carefully…If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ you will never have the need to go through any third party. How do I know this? Its in the Bible and I live it everyday.
In addition, your analogy, as far as it goes is spot on. Yet, it fails to take into account two major aspects of Catholic belief on the subject.
1. The first being, is that in addition to being close friends with the President, you are also very close to the Secretary of State and the Vice President and treat them accordingly. In a similiar manner, the saints in heaven (and elsewhere) do not distract from our friendship with Christ, it’s simply that they are our friends too and we treat them as such.
2. Which brings me to my second point. You and the Vice President consider the President your greatest friend. The President is the link of interest which unites you and the Vice-President. Yet who doesn’t like talking about the one they love and the greater the love, the more fraternal the conversation. So whenever we find ourselves in the company of those in heaven, the conversation always centers around our common interest-Jesus. We have much to learn about Jesus from those who have already walked further with Him than we have…those who have fought the good fight…who have finished the course. And so we learn from them, enjoy their insights ect. Our relationship to the saints in heaven, is not much different from the relationship a child has with their Sunday School teacher. Every Christian child knows how much Jesus loves them, yet they go to another to learn more about Him. Are they wrong to do so? Do they go to Sunday School because they need a ‘third party’ and can’t or shouldn’t approach Jesus directly? Of course not. It is because they love Jesus that they go to Sunday School to learn more and more about the one they love.
Below is an age-old prayer to Mary which while not perfectly expressing my point, it is close:
It’s called ‘Lovely Lady Dressed in Blue’. In it, you’ll find no ‘have to’ or a ‘third party’. It’s a child’s prayer, asking ‘childish things’. It’s a prayer of love-a love whose focus of inquiry is Jesus:
Lovely Lady dressed in blue
Teach me how to pray!
God was just your little boy,
Tell me what to say!
Did you lift Him up, sometimes,
Gently on your knee?
Did you sing to Him the way
Mother does to me?
Did you hold His hand at night?
Did you ever try
Telling stories of the world?
O! And did He cry?
Do you really think He cares
If I tell Him things
Little things that happen? And
Do the Angels’ wings
Make a noise? And can He hear
Me if I speak low?
Does He understand me now?
Tell me for you know.
Lovely Lady dressed in blue
Teach me how to pray!
God was just your little boy,
And you know the way.
Sola Christi
May God be gloried in His saints.
+
Vijay,
For curiosity’s sake, I would like to read the article you posted. However, I do wonder what the reason for posting it is. I and others here, are faithful Catholics. We go to Church, we know our Faith in and out. Why is this former nun’s testimony valid and ours is not? That is, why is she believed and we are not? Is it because she left the Church and in leaving, somehow understands the Church better than those of us who stay? What authority does she have on this subject that we don’t? Are we not as informed as she is? If so, on what basis do we determine she is more informed than those who remain Catholic?
Cheryl
Simple Reason..
“I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.” Matthew 11:25
Reason for god stirring my heart to post it here may not be you Cheryl.I still wish you watch your path carefully.
Major reasons why people cannot/shouldnot trust Catholicism — Can watch the reasons here..
God Bless.
Dear Cheryl,
Praise the Lord.
Let me ask you a simple queastion. How many Living GOD are there. As per Bible there is ONLY One True Living GOD.Then how can we say Father Son & Holy Spirit? Agaion as per Bible they are ONE.But exsist in three forms with same Image.
Jesus Himself is said to Philip when Philip requested Jesus to shew Father- Read these verses John 14:8-11 (KJV)8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. Again in John 10:38 (KJV) But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Read carefuly John 14:9 Jesus is saying he that hath seen me hath seen the Father. Paul said Colossians 2:9 (KJV) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
We all know water has three forms- liquid, Steam (gaseous form) and Ice (Solid form). Even though water exsist in 3 different forms at the same time in the same place all these forms are chemicaly H2O.GOD created water and if a creation of GOD (water) can exsist in three different form whithout changing its chemical nature is it not possible for GOD the Creator to exsist in three forms at the same time without changing GOD’s nature and Image. Fahter,The Son and Holy Spirit are diffrent forms of the Living GOD but at same time they are ONE. It is difficult to understand this with our small fleshy brain but this can understand with our spirit thru’revelation because only our born again spirit is able to get and grasp GOD’s revleation.
Be blesed in JESUS NAME.
I have followed almost every comment here, and every time I come back mainly to read your comments. I am a fellow Christian and a Catholic. I was shattered & had lost hope in my life to a point I had transformed into an atheist secretly.
Then Jesus called me and showed His abundant love for me. I am not very literate about Bible, I read it to my heart’s content whenever I feel like and I just concentrate on what He says to me at that moment.
It’s so hurtful when in this forum our Mother Mary and Saints are being called as a third party! I wouldn’t call my mom or siblings third party if my Dad is the provider to my family. I may not have realized some truth in life and I wouldn’t call my mom a third party if she helps me to become more spiritual.
We Catholics know and very clear we don’t worship Mother Mary. She is just very close to us. And we learn from lives of saints and other good people around us who are still alive. They help us in strengthening our relationship with Jesus.
We don’t give priority to Mother Mary over Jesus. We love her for Jesus loved her. Jesus was on earth just like everyone of us He did not use miracles for Himself, He was as human as we are. This truth and a sweet mystery of God’s will draws us close to Mother and our sisters and brothers of His kingdom.
When I die and my time to see God comes I want to be very pure. God knows me in and out, I talk to Him every conscious moment, just because I love Mother & ask prayers from saints My relationship with Trinity never fades. Never will. :)
Thank you for making me strong in my faith. : )
Loads of love
Preethi
Dear Sister Preethi,
Please pray and ask god in your personal prayers, if some one tries to show you scripturally, which may be different than what u have been taught or what you understood. If some one is pointing out things about a belief scripturally, please meditate on it in your daily bible study.(My suggestion is do not use any other sources than bible alone when u meditate the word of god.)
And Mary was mother of Jesus.Her story ends there.Please dont try to make her the mother of the world.All beleivers in christ are brothers and sisters as they acquire the status as children of god, through jesus alone.We can ask only the beleivers who are alive to remember/pray for us in their prayers. Asking the dead peaple is un-biblical and also sin.(Deuteronomy 18:9,Leviticus 20:6)
I would not accept even my mothers intervention into my personal relashionship with my Lord Jesus.Thats what or Lord wants.Our God is a Jealous God.Please do not make a graven image of god which fits your mind and sense.(Its Idolatry).
“We Catholics know and very clear we don’t worship Mother Mary. She is just very close to us. And we learn from lives of saints and other good people around us who are still alive. They help us in strengthening our relationship with Jesus.”
One popular prayer in Mary’s honor is the Hail Holy Queen, which is known in Latin as the Salve Regina. It is traditionally included as part of praying the rosary.
Please try to overcome your familiarity with this text and really look at the words. Doesn’t this sound like worship?
“Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.â€
What else do u mean by worship ?
“We don’t give priority to Mother Mary over Jesus. We love her for Jesus loved her. Jesus was on earth just like everyone of us He did not use miracles for Himself, He was as human as we are. This truth and a sweet mystery of God’s will draws us close to Mother and our sisters and brothers of His kingdom.”
Try to move closer to Jesus.Rest of them should not be of our concern till we get to them there.Try to learn/preach/talk/pray/ask/think jesus alone,He is our saviour/master who purchased us with his blood.
“When I die and my time to see God comes I want to be very pure. God knows me in and out, I talk to Him every conscious moment, just because I love Mother & ask prayers from saints My relationship with Trinity never fades. Never will.”
No one can be ever pure by their works.Please dont try to bribe yourself into heaven by your good works. Only through blood of Christ are we made pure and worthy.To try to add anything to this finished work of christ is to undermine the sacrifice of jesus on cross itself.Its the change of heart through application of blood of christ which makes us to bear the good fruits.Holy spirit helps us in this.We dont have to highlight that we are trying to be pure and trying to do good things.True Christians are meant to be pure and do good things by the power of holy spirit(as we have a change of heart at the time of salvation).I hope u understand the difference.
Thanks and god bless.
I recommend to read and watch these…
http://www.biblebelievers.com/bennett/bennett_mary-worship.html
I am not very literate about Bible, I read it to my heart’s content whenever I feel like and I just concentrate on what He says to me at that moment.
That sounds pretty literate to me. You’re not reading the Bible as a text-book and that’s good. What it sounds like is that the Bible is your prayer book. You approach the Scriptures through prayer, not in order to find ‘proof-text’. That’s a great gift. Hold onto that and don’t let anyone make you feel ‘biblically’ inferior because of that. If anything, your way is superior.
It’s so hurtful when in this forum our Mother Mary and Saints are being called as a third party! I wouldn’t call my mom or siblings third party if my Dad is the provider to my family. I may not have realized some truth in life and I wouldn’t call my mom a third party if she helps me to become more spiritual.
We Catholics know and very clear we don’t worship Mother Mary. She is just very close to us. And we learn from lives of saints and other good people around us who are still alive. They help us in strengthening our relationship with Jesus.
We don’t give priority to Mother Mary over Jesus. We love her for Jesus loved her. Jesus was on earth just like everyone of us He did not use miracles for Himself, He was as human as we are. This truth and a sweet mystery of God’s will draws us close to Mother and our sisters and brothers of His kingdom.
When I die and my time to see God comes I want to be very pure. God knows me in and out, I talk to Him every conscious moment, just because I love Mother & ask prayers from saints My relationship with Trinity never fades. Never will. :)
Beautifully and clearly stated.
Thank you for making me strong in my faith. : )
Actually, I was so down the other day and getting increasingly frustrated. Your post was a God-send. It really encouraged me. Like a big hug across cyber-space-a hug I so desperately needed. Thanks ever so much and God bless you Preethy.
Stay strong.
Vijay,
I don’t mind discussion or even disagreements. But what is increasingly frustrating is being told over and over again what I (and other Catholics) believe. I know you and others here mean well…but we mean well too. Yet, I feel like we’re being treated either as liars or as being terribly ignorant of the Faith we claim to be espousing. As to the latter, it seems to be a foregone conclusion that we, because we’re Catholic, do not seek to discern nor pray for God to reveal His truth to us. That we do not seek after Christ and His will with the same fervor as nonCatholics do. Thus, we are continually asked to be careful, to watch our footing ect. It’s as if our relationship(closeness to) Christ is constantly being questioned as if we’re not really Christian at all. Perhaps your faith is greater than mine. I’m not saying that it isn’t. But please don’t treat us as if we don’t try everyday to submit to Christ and His will for us. Let me ask you outright:
Based upon our conversations thus far, do you consider me to be a Christian? And if so, do you consider me to be a fairly strong one? Whatever answer you give, I won’t take it as judgment upon my person…I just think it’s time to lay the cards down on the table. I’ll accept whatever answer you give.
Thanks.
John,
I’m still not sure what you mean exactly. You seem to be espousing a type of Modalism. From “gotquestions.org”: Modalism teaches the God has simply revealed Himself in three different modes, and that He is not three Persons. If not I apologize. You said earlier, “Pray Only to Father thru’ Jesus”, yet we Catholics pray to Jesus and the Holy Spirit as well. We believe God exist in three distinct (but not separate) persons.
The Virgin told Lucia: “Go my child and tell the world; what will come to pass during the 1950’s – 2000’s. Men are not practicing the Commandments that our Father has given us. Evil is governing the world and is harvesting hate and resentment all over. Men will fabricate mortal weapons that will destroy the world in minutes, half of the human race will be destroyed, the war will begin against Rome , and there will be conflicts amongst religious orders. God will allow all natural phenomenon’s like Smoke, hail, cold, water, fire, floods, earthquakes, winds and inclement weather to slowly batter the planet. These things will come to pass before the year 2010. “Those who won’t believe, this is the time,” your beloved mother told you, “those lacking charity towards others and those who do not love thy neighbor like my beloved Son has loved you, all, cannot survive. They will wish to have died, millions are unimaginable, they will come, and there is no doubt our Lord God will punish severely those who do not believe in him, those who despise him and those who did not have time for him I call upon all of you to come to my son Jesus Christ, God helps the world but all of those who do not show fidelity and loyalty will be destroyed” Father Agustin, who lives in Fatima, said that Pope Paul VI gave him permission to visit sister Lucia who is a cloistered nun (she does not leave the monastery nor is allowed to receive any visitors). Father Augustin said that she received him greatly overwhelmed and told him: “Father, our lady is very sad because nobody is interested in her prophecy of 1917, though the righteous are walking through a narrow path, the evil ones are walking through an ample road that is leading them straight to their destruction, believe me father, the punishment will come very soon.” Many souls will be lost; many nations will disappear from the earth.. But, in the middle of all these, if men reflect, pray and practice good deeds, the world can be saved. One of all th ese, if men persist with its evil, the world will be lost forever. The time has come for all to pass on the message of our Blessed Lady to their families, friends, and to the entire world. Start praying, to make penitence and sacrifices. We are at the last minute of the last day and the catastrophes are near. Due to this, many that were far from the church will return to the open arms of the Church of Jesus Christ . The joining of the churches will result in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church ; England , Russia , China , Jews, Muslims and Protestants. All will return believing and worshiping God our creator, in his beloved Son and in our Blessed Mother Virgin Mary”. WHAT AWAITS US??? Every where there will be “Peace Talks”, but punishment will come.
A MAN IN A VERY IMPORTANT POSITION WILL BE ASSASSINATED AND THIS WILL PROVOKE THE WAR. A POWERFUL ARMY WILL DOMINATE ALL THROUGH EUROPEAN THE NUCLEAR WAR WILL COMMENCE. This war will de stroy everything, darkness will fall over us for 72 hours (three days) and the one third of humanity that survives this obscurity and sacrifice, will commence to live a new era, they will be good people. In a very cold night, 10 minutes before midnight , A GREAT QUAKE will shake the earth for 8 hours. This will be the third signal that God is who governs the earth. The righteous and those who propagate the faith and the message of the Lady of Fatima SHOULD NOT FEAR, DO NOT BE AFRAID. WHATTO DO???
Bow your heads, kneel down and ask God for forgiveness because, only what is good and is not under the power of evil will survive the catastrophe. In order for you to prepare and remain alive I will give you the following signs: ANGUISH…….. AND IN A SHORT PERIOD THE EARTH QUAKE WILL COMMENCE… THE EARTH WILL SHAKE….The shake will be so violent that will move the earth 23 degrees and it will return it to its normal position. Then, total and absolu te darkness will cover the entire planet… All evil spirits will be mingling around and free, doing harm to all those souls that did not want to listen to this message and those who did not want to repent. To the faithful souls, remember to light the blessed candles, prepare a sacred altar with a crucifix in order to communicate with GOD and implore for His infinite mercy…. All will be dark; IN THE SKY A GREAT MYSTIC CROSS will appear to remind us the price that his beloved Son had to pay for our redemption…In the house the only thing that can give light will be the HOLY CANDLES… Once lit, nothing will put them off until the three days of darkness are over. Also, you should have Holy water that should be sprinkled abundantly on windows and doors. The Lord will protect the property of the chosen ones.. Kneel down before the powerful cross of my beloved Son, pray the Rosary and after each Hail Mary you must pray the following: “Oh God forgive u s our sins, preserve us from the fire of hell, take all souls to heaven, specially those who are in more need of they mercy. Blessed Virgin Mary protect us, we love you, save us and save the world”. Pray 5 Creeds and Rosary which is the secret to my Immaculate Heart. All those who believe in my words go and take the message to everyone.
DO NOT FEAR. FEAR NOTHING DURING THE LORD’S GREAT DAY.
Talk to all the souls. now that there is time, those who keep quiet will be responsible for all those souls who will perish in ignorance.
All those who pray humbly the rosary will have the protection of heaven and those who are bound to die I will help them die in peace and they will be holy when they enter the other world. I wish all my children to attend mass every first Friday and every first Saturday of each month, to confess and receive Holy Communion and in doing so, save the world from its TOTAL DESTRUCTION.WHEN the earth shakes no more, those who still not believe in our Lord will perish in a horrible way. The wind will bring gas and it will disperse it everywhere, then the sun will rise. Maybe you will survive this catastrophe. Do not forget that God’s punishment is holy and ONCE IT HAS STARTED YOU SHOULD NOT LOOK OUTSIDE, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE, GOD DOES NOT WANT ANY OF HIS CHILDREN TO SEE WHEN HE PUNISHES THE SINNERS…. All this encompasses with the writings of the Holy Scriptures..
Read on the New Testament: Luke: 21 – 5:121, 12:19 , 20:20 , 29:33 Letters of St Paul 3 – 8 – 14 Isaiah 40, 1:5:9. You must understand that God allows all this to happen. The Pope and Bishops are now awaiting another message that speaks about repentance and prayer. Remember that Gods words are not a threat, but good news…Please reproduce these pages and send them to all you know so we all can have the opportunity to repent and be saved. We do not know if those receiving this message believe or not in GOD, but think that if you are receiving this message is for a reason!! Maybe the Creator is giving us the chance to be saved, no matter what religion or creed. If you don’t believe in this message at least send it to others, it costs you nothing. To all those receiving it, they can have the opportunity to judge for themselves. Remember, we can avoid a great deal if we practice the Commandments that our Father God left us. There are 10 simple things, that if we all put in practice we can obtain God’s pardon.
Dear Cheryl,
GOD has revealed HIMSELF in Three persons. But There are no three GOD. Bible never & ever used the Word Trinity.I agree with you -yes
God exist in three distinct (but not separate) persons. If not seperate persons is it dificult for you to believe that They are ONE with three differnt personalities according to their the function. Bible says in James 2:19 (KJV) Thou believest that there is ONE GOD; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.If bible says so I am there to beleive that and no more questions or doubts for me on this.
Jesus always said HE is in Father and Father is in HIM and again He said without Father HE can do anyhting.If we say they are seperate persons then we are saying there are 3 GOD which is totaly against bible.
About prayer:- When Jesus was in this earth HE paryed to the Father.Also He said in John 15:16 (KJV) Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. When ever we pray in JESUS NAME that prayer reches to Fahter. And Jesus will answwer the prayer thus FATHER Be GLORIFIED in the SON.John 14:13 (KJV) And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.Note that JESUS is saying ask in may name. There is lot of meaning in it.
Dear brother please approah the Word of GOD with a free mind and get revelation in your spirit. If you try to get revelation in your mind that will not work out. Fully Depend on the Spirt of GOD Who is only teacher who can teach you perfectly. I receved all these revelations directly from the Spirit of GOD. Fot that I spent Time with GOD. Everyday I find time to eat & chew the word of GOD.
I never went the site you qutoed.Holy Spirit is my teacher I am experencing this quoted verse(1 John 2:27 (KJV) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.)in my life and I give glory to GOD for that.
John.
I am strongly Trinitarian. If I wasn’t Trinitarian, I wouldn’t be Catholic.
I was merely seeking clarification. Now that I have it, I thank you.
It’s not necessary to visit the website I posted. I included merely as source materal.
God bless.
Thank you Cheryl
I wanted to send you a note since really long : )
I have felt the frustration myself here, I can imagine how could it be for you …I really appreciate your effort and few other brothers and sisters for representing us as a whole. : )
Dear Vijay,
Thank you for your suggestions & concern.
I did not mean pure in the way it depicted to you there. I meant it in a real ‘human’& ‘humble’ way.
I believe every human being is equal in front of God and He has given us free will, of which we need to do the right use to directed towards God all the time. Regardless of religion, race, gender,bliefs God loves us all and we’re truly fortunate to know our God so closely.
You said you wouldn’t consider your mother’s intervention for your personal relationship with Jesus?!
As it’s been already quoted by Cheryl & other Bro’s & sister’s I would want to repeat
– we have taken help from many people around us including learning to read & write, understanding earthly & spiritual things. If we close our mind and eyes of heart we won’t learn anything, our soul wouldn’t be able to know the difference between the good and evil. It’s God’s greatest gift for us humans.
I wouldn’t be who I am today without the help of my fellow human beings either materially or spiritually.
During the event of transfiguration, Jesus spoke to Moses & Elijah! That means, they’re alive.
So our faith is to go to heaven and live with them all in His kingdom and praise Him for eternity.
If saints and other righteous people hadn’t done sacrifices, and Mother’s special role, the world wouldn’t be a better place. They all did what was entrusted to them. And God never forgets their responsibility, their love for Him.
They are the chosen ones.What if they were selfish, we wouldn’t be knowing Jesus and His love for us. Remembering them and asking their help would make us better. At least wouldn’t make us less good!
Don’t take it as offensive brother, I am not ready to take your intervention to guide me to your belief.( :)Please take it as a healthy arrogance ) Even I am dependent on the same Holy Spirit.
And about Hail, holy queen prayer. No, it’s not a mode of worship. We are asking sweet mother to show her son, who knows Him better than any humans. Before His public life , she was the one who understood Him so closely.During the Khana marriage , even though it was the first miracle from Jesus, and His time hadn’t come , she knew He would do it. She did not direst Him. Before He said He would do it, she told the people over there to listen to Him and do as He says.
That was the kind of closeness she had with Him.
Praise the Lord.
Love & regards
Preethi
dear Cheryl,
What I said is in bible you cannot find the word Trinity. Trinity is man made word.
If you can show a single verse in bible having the word Trinty, it is appreciated. But As we all agree God exist in three distinct (but not separate) persons. I strongly beleive The Father The son and The Holy Spirit. Father is My fahter in heaven The Son is my LORD Jesus Christ. Holy spiirt is my Teacher.
God bless you.
Dear Cheryl,
Please don’t mind if i have been harsh in my presentation of truth and have offended you/others in any ways.
But we cannot compromise on what is biblical and what is unbiblical.
It is not about my stand, or your stand Cheryl. It is about the belief, which can lead to eternal separation from god.
That is why i have a concern. Other than that i am not even a regular bible student to make a debate on theology.
It may not be too much of a concern for a catholic, becoz at most, even if he/she will go to purgatory; someone can pray them out of there into heaven. This is a false gospel.
I am pleased to hear some of you seek after Christ and His will with the same fervor as nonCatholic-christians do. But when someone adds a mediator in between Father, Christ and us, it becomes different gospel, and every true Christian will object and reject it outright. This is indeed unbiblical (you cannot biblically challenge this anywhere with a true believer.).You can run rounds about this point saying different things which suits your belief system, with/without compromising the truth, but at the end even a drop of deadly poison is enough to lead to death.
I may not be a right person to tell you if you are a believer of Christ or not. A true Christian knows only Christ as his/her savior and will have relationship with him alone. If you fall into that set alone (not a union of sets) then you can consider yourself as a part of body of Christ.
When you find yourself loyal to Earth Bound Authority (pope) and try to preach their ideology instead of Scripture indeed you need to question your salvation. If that Authority is body of Christ, why don’t i feel part of it? All who believe in Christ should have known this authority if it is part of Christ, as we are part of same body called Christ. Why is it that some of the body parts think otherwise? Or do you think Christ is building his body, which thinks in different ways and acts independently disposing each other.
“There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death… For wide is the road that leads to destruction, and many travel it.†(Proverbs 16:25; Matthew 7:13–14)
Hope you will re-think about clinging to anykind of Earthly bound authority.Please Stand for Christ alone.
God Bless you.
Dear Preethi,
I agree to most of your points and you have rightly said.
I will answer only objectionable points.
Any Christian will not be against building a relationship with body of Christ/fellow Christian as it is a commandment.
This is becoz of many reasons, which i will not discuss here.
Trying to have a relationship with passed away saints is indeed unbiblical. Show me one reference from bible where someone is having a relationship with passed away saints. We will discuss on this if you can get some references. (Otherwise consider it un-biblical irrespective of who has said it.)
All the saints who are in heaven are righteous through Christ. The same applies to us believers on earth. We too are chosen ones. Only difference is the place we are now, and the rewards we behold which is based on the works done for Christ here on earth. It’s not the Mary/Other saints that question your works when u stand at the BEMA (judgment seat of Christ).”How many did you lead to Christ?” is the major and basic question there.
All the saints have done their part and have their rewards in heaven that are now with Christ, worshipping him every moment.
Do you think Lord will not allow them to rest in peace, by again binding them to these earthly activities?
Remembering and taking examples of their life while leading someone to Christ or helping someone to grow in faith is OK.
Why would you try and ask them for help. How will it make you better? Show me one reference from bible where someone said they are feeling better/regenerated by asking passed away saints. We will discuss on this if you can get some references. (Otherwise consider it un-biblical irrespective of who has said it.)
According to your belief system, it looks like Jesus is showing partiality to his mother by choosing her above all, behaving like an earthly being. And we have to bribe her through our prayers to reach him.
I am sorry; i interfered into your belief system.
Even after looking at the wordings of Hail Mary, if u doesn’t agree it as a mode of worship, then it’s a very sorrowful state.
But it’s my duty as a believer to share gospel truth with everyone.
Praise the Lord.
God Bless.
Vijay
I would like to share with you another gospel truth.
it’s about the authority.
Our devotion to Mary is not the mere result of our personal or social experience. We give it importance because Church declares it to be valid by the right it has been given by God.
so, you don’t need any authority because you have bible. You don’t need to listen to someone like Pope because you can have direct connection to God. Well, the same spirit Martin Luther had. He was right when he opposed unlawful practices being performed in the church but at the same time he was wrong because he refused that Christ had given any power(the power to open and to close the gates of heaven) to his representatives some time in the past. He himself was a controversial figure at his time and we know that Adolf Hitler (the biggest enemy of Jews) was influenced by him.
even Jesus respected the Jewish Authority. he told his disciples to do that. Once St. Paul also spoke against st. Peter (the first Pope) but he never challenged his (Peter’s) authority, although he was right. This is the difference between Martin Luther and st. Paul. this is the difference between a Lutheran and a Catholic.
what i want to say is that all authorities comes from God. Jesus made Peter the Rock for the church, the same Peter who was a mere human being..a liar..week..illiterate..a fisherman. Jesus said that on this Rock He would build His Church.
one more point is here that Jesus said “CHURCH” not “CHURCHES”.
can anyone clarify this contradiction? we see many churches today but Jesus established only one Church.
Yes, God gave us the Bible through the Catholic Church.You claim to go straight to Him but in reality you interpret it the way YOU see it or a pastor does. You follow a tradition even if you don’t want to admit it. The Word of God is not a something. It is a somebody and that somebody is Jesus who gave us His Church. Jesus never commanded the apostles to write.He commanded them to preach and as St Paul said to hold fast to the traditions they were given them by word of mouth(oral,speaking)or written.
People who attack the Church, accuse the Church or say things that don’t ring true do so because they don’t know the Catholic Church nor the history of Christianity.
I just read your comments about the authority in realation to prayer to Mary. I agree with you that all auhtority is given by GOD. But If an auhtority ask us to do somehting which is NOT agreeing with the Word of GOD do we have to follow it. Peter or Paul never and ever followed which was NOT agreeing with the Word of GOD. Read the Book of Acts specialy Chapter 5. I am quoting some verse for from the same chapter for your reference.Acts 5:26-29 (KJV)26 Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned. 27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them, 28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us. 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
I wants to ask you onething. Is bible asking us to pray to Mary or any other saints. If so please give the bible verse or verses then I am there to agree with you. We the Born again children of GOD purchaed by the blood of Jesus Christ and made Rightous by GOD thru’ Christ are asked to follow only the Word of GOD not any other dotrines or teachings .No authority can ask any of the sheep given to them to follow something againt Bible or not tallying with The Word of GOD.
Read this warning given in the bible – Revelation 22:18-19 (KJV)18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Church is body of Christ. GOD never created relegions or denominations. He asked hus to be the member of Christ’s body by being One with HIM. 1 Timothy 3:15 (KJV) But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. Church should stand for the Truth & Jesus is the Truth. Bibles says John 8:32 (KJV) And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Be blessed in Jesus name.
John.
Why is it necessary that the term “Trinity” be in Scripture? Tri=3 (since there are three persons in the Godhead) unity=oneness (since they are one God).
Vijay.
I understand your position and I don’t think you’ve been harsh. But I needed to get to the bottom of why these conversations have been so ‘onesided’ as they say. If my Christianity is held in doubt, then the tenor of your post makes sense. In which case, I need all the evangelizing, admonitions and warnings you have given me. I thank you for your honesty. It clears up a great deal.
Preethi.
I wanted to send you a note since really long : )
I would love to here from you. If you go to my blog , you’ll find my email address there.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Dear Brother ntoppo,
Please find my responses.
I would like to share with you another gospel truth.it’s about the authority.Our devotion to Mary is not the mere result of our personal or social experience. We give it importance because Church declares it to be valid by the right it has been given by God.
First and foremost , let me clarify that the Church which Jesus refers to is not a visible one, Our God in heaven refers this church as bride for christ.And the bride should be holy to be given unto christ.Every true beleiver whom Jesus has chosen to be with is part of this church.
“The Church you refer to is an Earthly Authority which has raised herself above all to represent church, and commands to follow her.”
So which church would you want to belong to ? Choose rightly..
so, you don’t need any authority because you have bible. You don’t need to listen to someone like Pope because you can have direct connection to God. Well, the same spirit Martin Luther had. He was right when he opposed unlawful practices being performed in the church but at the same time he was wrong because he refused that Christ had given any power(the power to open and to close the gates of heaven) to his representatives some time in the past. He himself was a controversial figure at his time and we know that Adolf Hitler (the biggest enemy of Jews) was influenced by him.
“Why do you feel, you need some authority to teach you the truth?” Holy Spirit is our teacher
“Why do you feel you cannot have bible ?” Its available to every one who is interested to know Christ.
“Why do you feel you need to listen to some controversial authority like Papal?” holy spirit leads us into communion of beleivers, where ever we are on earth.
I heard the name, Martin Luther, but never known him.I bet many beleivers dont. And he’s not of my interest. Jesus is. Its the Sirirt of Jesus that compels me.
For me, i can say i am little bothered about the historical facts or evidences to follow christ. Once he changed my heart, he also has given me the discerning spirit to make out right from wrong and good from bad.
So judgement of these things should not be of a concern to a true beleiver.
even Jesus respected the Jewish Authority. he told his disciples to do that. Once St. Paul also spoke against st. Peter (the first Pope) but he never challenged his (Peter’s) authority, although he was right. This is the difference between Martin Luther and st. Paul. this is the difference between a Lutheran and a Catholic.
We should try to be a part of Body of Christ. If you are part of it, you will know him personally and can communicate to each other.(not one sided, as most of them do in prayers.)
We can be part of any physical church on this earth, but do we know christ personally is what matters most.
Regarding Jewish Authority — (“…ye made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition,….†(Matt. 15:6-9))
To whom do u think Jesus is talking to here ?
what i want to say is that all authorities comes from God. Jesus made Peter the Rock for the church, the same Peter who was a mere human being..a liar..week..illiterate..a fisherman. Jesus said that on this Rock He would build His Church.
one more point is here that Jesus said “CHURCH†not “CHURCHESâ€.
can anyone clarify this contradiction? we see many churches today but Jesus established only one Church.
All authorities dont come from Christ.
Rock is always referred to as Christ.He is the corner stone.(Its another discussion.)
I hope it could have been clarified to you by now what the real CHURCH means.
Thanks and God bless.
Dear Cheryl,
God has blessed you with wonderfull gifts.May god use them for his glory by bringing the lost into his kingdom .
God bless.
Thank you.
Vijay
i was expecting the same you have quoted about REAL CHURCH.
“the church which is invisible…”(i really don’t understand wat you mean by invisible church, Christ didnt mentioned it..LOL)
“universal church…………..”
“true believers……”
i think you want to say that real church is something in the air….like a puff.
“The Church you refer to is an Earthly Authority which has raised herself above all to represent church, and commands to follow her.â€
Luke10.16 whoever listens to you listens to me…(Jesus is giving AUTHORITY)
and this authority didn’t end with Peter.
“We can be part of any physical church on this earth, but do we know christ personally is what matters most.”
i liked this thought. If we don’t know Christ personally it is useless to be a Catholic.
but what if i know Him personally yet want to follow Him through Catholic tradition? Why devotion to Mary doesn’t lead me away from Jesus? On the contrary, the more i think about Mary…the more i concentrate on Jesus.
(“…ye made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition,….†(Matt. 15:6-9))
Jesus spokes against Pharisees and Scribes who misused the tradition. He was not against the Jewish Authority itself.”Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill”Mathew5:17
“All authorities dont come from Christ.
Rock is always referred to as Christ.He is the corner stone.(Its another discussion.)”
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities;for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God.—Romans13:1
and you have come to fullness in him, WHO IS THE HEAD OF EVERY RULER AND AUTHORITY.–Colossians2:10
Vijay,it looks like you are speaking against scripture..
yes “Rock” is referred to Christ. we read in the Old Testament…”there is no “Rock” like our God.”1sam2:2
please, for God’s sake, dont compare to that “Rock” with this “rock”….
“and I tell you, you are Peter, and on this “rock” I will build my church,Mathew16:18
Vijay i think you shuld read your bible once again. which version of the bible you read? mine is NRSV.
Vijay,
Thank you. May the Lord continue to walk beside you. May you always experience His presence, His peace and His joy.
There will be a hug waiting for you in heaven :)
God Bless.
Dear ntoppo,
You have very good scriptural knowledge.
May be you can convert me into a Catholic.
But i have few questions or doubts, so please mind to clarify.
Give me scriptural reference for below.. (If you dont have scriptural evidences , i’ll assume they are unbiblical irrespective of who said it.)
1.)Assuming Real church is not in Air, where is it mentioned that Catholic Church is the Real/True Church.
2.)Where did Jesus say he had passed on this authority from Peter to Pope or Catholic church. Or atleast has Peter passed on this Authority to any catholic Pope or Church.Please present evidences.
3.)In Revelation, there are 7 churches mentioned to which Jesus writes letters.Which one is the catholic Church part of? Who established these churches?Where are these churches now? If you place Catholic Church into one of these churches, lets check if the characteristics fit properly or not.
4.) If you think jesus wrote these letters to then existing churches, why is it part of Revelation?
Assuming you are traditionally following Jesus through Mary, i really dont know why u r not led away from Christ.may be you are a good Catholic who hears Christ instead of Pope.
And according to you, The Pharisees and Scribes (not Jews) have mis-used Jewish Traditions. And the Popes of Catholic church are holding uprightly the Papal Tradition (which is not un-biblical) perfectly. Thats good news if some one wishes to follow this tradition and come to christ.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfillâ€Mathew5:17
The Law is not equal to Catholic/Jewish Tradition.
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities;for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God.—Romans13:1
“They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not..”Hosea 8:4
We need to obey the Law of the Land we are in, and be subject to the governing authorities.
What if these governing authorities want you to do something against commandment of GOD.? Will you still follow ?
Romans 13:1 refers to GOD instituted Authorities/Ministries.Not all. (Becoz Paul was writing to all those in Rome who are “beloved of God, called to be saints.” He was not writing to the general population at Rome. He was specifically addressing the “called out ones,” the Body of Christ.)
Was PAUL subjected to Roman Ceaser or Jesus? Why was he beheaded ?
and you have come to fullness in him, WHO IS THE HEAD OF EVERY RULER AND AUTHORITY.–Colossians2:10
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power” KJV Colossians 2:9-10
Hope you find the difference and understand it.If not i’ll detasil it later.
please, for God’s sake, dont compare to that “Rock†with this “rockâ€â€¦. “and I tell you, you are Peter, and on this “rock†I will build my church,Mathew16:18
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” KJV Matthew 16:18
“The LORD is my ROCK, and my fortress, and my deliverer. My God, is the ROCK of refuge.” Psalm 18:2, 94:22.
“God was their ROCK, and the high God their redeemer.” Psalm 78:35.
“Unto Thee will I cry, O LORD, MY ROCK;” Psalm 28:1.
“Bow down Thy thine ear to me; deliver me speedily: be Thou my strong ROCK, FOR A HOUSE of defense to SAVE me. for Thou art my ROCK and my FORTRESS; therefore for Thy name’s sake lead me, and guide me.” Psalm 31:2,3
“I will say unto God my ROCK, why hast Thou forgotten me” Psalm 41:l0.
“Lead me to the ROCK that is higher than I” Psalms 61:2
“He Only is my ROCK and my salvation; He is my defense; I shall not be moved. In GOD is my salvation and my glory: THE ROCK of my strength, and my refuge, is in God. Trust in him at all times, ye people, Pour out your heart before him; God is a refuge for us. Selah” Psalm 62:6-8
“To shew that the Lord is upright: He is my ROCK, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.” Psalm92:15.
“but the Lord is my defense; and MY GOD IS THE ROCK of my refuge.” Psalm 94:22.
“O Come, let us sing unto THE LORD; let us make a joyful noise to THE ROCK of our salvation.” Psalm 95:1.
“The stone which the builders refused is become the head of the corner. This is the Lord’s doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.” Psalm 118:22, 23.
“Therefore thus saith the Lord God: Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.” Isaiah 28:16.
“Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto OUR GOD! He is THE ROCK, His work is perfect: for all his ways are judgement” Deuteronomy 32:3,4.
“Then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed THE ROCK of his salvation.” Deuteronomy 32:15, 18
“And he said: THE LORD IS MY ROCK, and my fortress, and my deliverer” II Samuel 22:2.
Read carefully, youll understand who is ROCK. No 2 rocks. only 1.
Sorry , I am not regular bible reader.Forgive me if some things are wrong.May god lead this.
Dear friends in Christ,
please take time to check out the following sites.
http://www.answers2prayer.org/bible_questions/Answers/mary/mary.html
May the Almighty God richly bless you all.
FOR ALL CHRISTIANS EQUALLY
1)Everbody’s ultimate aim is to get salvation through Jesus.
2)If you are interceeding understand its full meaning, you are not worshiping any saint or Mother Mary, You are just asking their help for your prayer or your request.
3)We all say to others/our friends to pray for us ! so then why saints or Mother mARY cant pray for you.
4)Do you like someone saying rubbish about your mother ? surely Not. In the same way Jesus doesnot like you say anything bad of His Mother too. IN THE SAME WAY His fRIENDS (Saints ) TOO !
5)Remember
“It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.” Luke 17:2
Let our talks dont lead to sins.
6)CHRISTIAN means one who have Christ.If we have Christ we have Mary too because we all are born in Earth ?
Why should we forget Mary?
7)If You want to pray , pray in your on way, which is most meaningful!
Did Jesus came to you and say dont interceed to mary or other saints?
If intersession makes you to get more attachment to God then interceed , otherwise leave it.
See U all in Heaven.
I am Alen,a Jesus Youth (@ SCT college of engg , TVM ) just like bro.Georgy, which lead me to greater understanding of Jesus in my life.
God Bless U all.
Forgive if any errors! Everbody makes it. :-)
I thank GOD for because you said Chritians means those who have Christ in them.
I just want to say few things to you.
1. Bible says there is only one Read this verse carefully-1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; as pwer bible there is only ONE Mediator and that is Jesus Christ. Aaogn bibles says Hebrews 4:15-16 (KJV)15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. If we can GO directly to Jesus Christ Who is the High Priest why we need another mediator.
Now you may aske why we say our co believers to pray for us.We are not suppose to give then a job to pray for us and we just depending on there prayer.We along with our co belivers are asked to got directly GOD & to Jesus Christ because Christ is ONLY Mediator and the co belivers are the memebers of Body of Christ. Can you show mwe a singleverse in New Tesiment where apostoles including Peter & Paul paryed through Mary the eartly mother who go the privilage to give bith to jesus ot to other saints.It is all because we are not able to accept fully that GOD is love & He loves us and that Love is pouring us thru’Holy Spirit.Let us learn to live with Holy Spirit.
2. your query -Did Jesus came to you and say dont interceed to mary or other saints?
If bible is silent on something we human beings are not supposed ato add something with an ssumption that bible is incomplete. Bible says if we do like that bible warns us with these verses Revelation 22:18-19 (KJV)18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Be Blessed in Jesus name.
1)Everbody’s ultimate aim is to get salvation through Jesus.
Jesus Offers Salivation as free gift whoever repents of their sins, and accepts him as personal savior(to trust only him as capable person to redeem you from your sin.)
If you have done these two you are saved. No need to add/remove anything to/from this.
2)If you are interceding understand its full meaning, you are not worshiping any saint or Mother Mary, You are just asking their help for your prayer or your request.
3)We all say to others/our friends to pray for us ! so then why saints or Mother mARY cant pray for you.
Intercession is praying with the real hope and real intent that God would step in and act for the positive advancement of some specific other person(s) or other entity
Let’s see few examples from the bible that were intercessors…
Abraham– He took the initiative to step forward before God on behalf of his neighbors in Sodom and its area.(Genesis 18:16-33)
Moses– also stepped in when God was angry, standing in the gap in the most literal sense : offering his own life for that of his nation. (Numbers 14:11-21; Exodus 15:25; Psalm 106:23; …)
Habakkuk– the prophet asks for God to act against injustice…(Habakkuk 3:2 )
Isaiah– prayed with King Hezekiah to save the nation from defeat and destruction at the hands of Assyria, and the armies were suddenly turned back (Isaiah ch. 36-39)
Nehemiah– prayed to God to bring about the rebuilding of Jerusalem and of his people.(Nehemiah 1:4)
Similarly, all the old testaments prophets Elijah, Elisha, Samuel, Jonah, David, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos , Obadiah Micah, Nahum, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi interceded with GOD for the Israel and the Jewish nations.
Stephen– interceded on behalf of those who were killing him.
Paul– prayed constantly for the struggling young church, for character, behavior, witness, and wisdom.
Epaphras– was the ‘prayer wrestler’ for the church in Colossae.
b>Can you point out at least one of them who was not alive when interceding? Give a reference from the bible. Let’s understand scripture.
So, what’s the point…? Only a living saint can intercede for a living person.
Then what about Jesus?
Jesus Christ is our model for intercessory prayer. Jesus stands before God and between Him and sinful man, just as the Old Testament priests did: For there is one God, and one mediator (intercessor) between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5). It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us (Romans 8:34). Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them (Hebrews 7:25).
We, New Testament saints intercede in the name of Jesus. When we cover our intercessory prayers with the blood of Christ, only then it is acceptable to GOD.
SO i hope we can now understand, why we should ask Jesus to cover our Prayers to represent them.
And
Why we should not ask Mary/Other dead saints, becoz it is un-biblical and Idolatry/sometimes Sorcery.
4) Do you like someone saying rubbish about your mother ? surely Not. In the same way Jesus doesnot like you say anything bad of His Mother too. IN THE SAME WAY His fRIENDS (Saints ) TOO !
Let’s look at Canaa Wedding to understand the relationship…
The mother of Jesus saith unto him, they have no wine; being concerned for the family, lest they should be put to shame and disgrace, and the entertainment should not proceed with becoming credit and honor; and knowing the power of Christ to help in this time of necessity, she modestly moves it to him, perhaps by a whisper, sitting next him; or, it may be, might call him out, and just drop the hint; being well persuaded of his power, from the wonderful things told her by the angel that brought the news of her conception, and by the shepherds, and by Simeon and Anna, which she had laid up in her heart; and from his being the Messiah, who, according to the general belief of the nation, was to work miracles.
“Woman,” This was ordinary with the Jews, speaking to women, to call them by the name of their sex, but by calling her Woman, and not Mother, is agreed by most to signify to her, that in this thing she did not have authority to command Him.
“What have I do to with thee?” Signifies some displeasure for her unseasonable interrupting him, and also that she had no right or authority upon him in His ministry. It is an intimation that He cannot allow her or any other person to direct in regard to the exercise of his divine power. This language, a rebuke to Mary, His mother, shows very plainly the fiction of Mary having ascendancy over Christ.
“mine hour is not yet come to show her,” that she was not to prescribe the time to him when he should work miraculously; yet by this expression he also gives her some hopes that he would supply this want, hinting that He would do something, but at His own time; and so she understood from his reply that he would relieve the difficulty. She took the reproof in good part and told the servant to do exactly as He would direct.
From these passages does it transcribe that the Lord is like an unapproachable brutish man that only His mother can soothe Him to do something? He simply, respectfully, but firmly rebuked his mother from doing that, for the Lord will not share His glory with anybody: I am the Lord; that is my name: I will not give my glory to another, or my praise to pictured images. (Isaiah 42:8)
So now we see why the servants went to Mary, it was not that they were afraid to ask Jesus themselves, but because Mary had some responsibility for the running of the feast. She went to Jesus, not because of the petitions of the servants but on her own accord knowing the power of her Son. Besides the servants are only mentioned afterwards, but it is reasonable to assume so for it was them that dispensed the wine.
Catholic Church portrays and represents Mary as being more sympathetic than Jesus Christ and has created an elaborate system of Mary devotions and works built on sources entirely outside of Scripture. But the Bible is most clear in its showing that when Jesus Christ was on earth, it was NEVER necessary for anyone to persuade Him to be compassionate. Rather He was always moved by compassion. He did not need Mary, angels or saints to move Him to action and certainly they are not required as intermediaries today as this Church would have us believe. For God is one, also there is one Mediator of God and of men, the Man Christ Jesus, (1 Timothy 2:5)
5) Remember
“It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.†Luke 17:2
Let our talks don’t lead to sins.
What did you quote here?
Jesus wants us to be aware that temptation is real, dangerous, and personal. However, it is far worse for us to be the source of someone else’s temptation and sin than to have to face our own. Our sin matters in every way; they matter more, however, when we bring others down with us.
This surely applies to the Catholic Church, as it has driven so many little ones (least in faith) away from the gospel truth, by adding its own tradition.
6) CHRISTIAN means one who has Christ. If we have Christ we have Mary too because we all are born in Earth ?
Why should we forget Mary?
CHRISTIAN means who follows Christ carrying his cross. Are we carrying Christ or Mary?
And where does it say in the bible that if we have Christ we have all other saints including Mary. Give me references, we will discuss…(Otherwise consider it to be un-biblical, irrespective of who said it.)
And why do we need Mary if we have Christ? What else can she do which Christ can’t do/did?
7)If You want to pray , pray in your on way, which is most meaningful!
Did Jesus came to you and say dont interceed to mary or other saints?
Pray always with truth and spirit, through Jesus alone.
Did Jesus say to ask Mary and Other Passed Away Saints to intercede for us? (Give me one biblical reference, where passed away saints have interceded for living ones.)
If intersession makes you to get more attachment to God then interceed , otherwise leave it.
As a true believer in Christ, we need to always intercede for our fellow brothers/sisters.
(I Timothy 2:1-4; I Timothy 2:24-26; II Corinthians 5:18-19)
May god lead us all into completeness of Truth.
@ Vijay. God bless you and keep the true, I am not perfect in English, but I understand you are telling the true about Jesus Christ.
GOD Bless u all
Call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father-the one in heaven.–Matthew23:9
Indeed, in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.–1Cor4:15
now a doubtful mind like yours(and anyone’s) will question why Paul is calling himself a father when God is the Father.
was it wrong when Elisha cried out saying these words when his master Elijah was ascending into heaven?
Father, father! The chariots of Israel and its horsemen!–2Kings2:12
God has given some individuals a new name when He blessed them or made a promise to them.
Abram becomes Abraham.–Genesis17:15
Jacob becomes Israel.—–Genesis32:28
same way Jesus is blessing(promising) Simon and He gives him a new name-Peter(means rock)
Now the people who wrangle over words(2Timothy 2:14) will say-how can there be two rocks because Christ(God) is the Rock?
these are the examples of senseless controversies(2Timothy2:23)
these types of confusions and questions come out from human minds. the same is here with the mediatorship of Virgin Mary and saints. Mother Mary, Peter and saints have nothing of their own but in Christ and through the gospel they are mediators.
I can pray for you but it’s your job how you get rid of these doubts. you may ignore these, or check out your faith in Jesus, or just end with condemning Catholic Church.
people are asking again and again for the references from the bible about Mary and saints.
Bible doesn’t contain each and everything that God could have said to His People.
“But there are also many other things that Jesus did;if every one of them were written down, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.†John21:25(no one would be able read them in one’s whole life.)
we should thank God that he has given us the Bible(containing just 1400 pages) to believe and imitate Christ, “not to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make assertionsâ€.–1Timothy1:7
@Vijay: Only a living saint can intercede for a living person.
Why we should not ask Mary/Other dead saints, becoz it is un-biblical and Idolatry/sometimes Sorcery
Vijay i dont know which denomination you belong to, but in Catholicism there can not be a living saint or dead saint. a christian’s whole life is a journey to holiness and it ends with his/her physcial death. only then a christan can be considered to be declared saint. your idea of dead saint seems to be unbiblical.
i tell you why.
Jesus describes physical death as a sleep.
the girl is not dead but sleeping.–Matthew9:24
our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep—John10:33
then who is really dead? one who dosnt live in Christ.
but the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives.–1Timothy5:6
now when you say ‘a dead saint’ i think you mean a passed away saint. well, saints are always living because they reign with Christ.
“now he is God not of the dead, but of the living;for to him all of them are aliveâ€.–Luke20:38
you have mentioned the wedding at Cana. it is funny to say that Jesus is rebuking his mother. you have described it in very literal sense.
“Catholic Church portrays and represents Mary as being more sympathetic than Jesus Christâ€
no Pope has ever said that Mary is more sympathetic than Jesus Christ
and even if she looks more sympathetic then is it of her own? does it not reflects Jesus’ Mercy?
i have already said and i say again please don’t compare any human to Jesus Christ. This is real idolatry and un-biblical, brother! dont compare Him with Mary, Peter, Paul or other saints.
i live in Chhattisgarh (India) and here in my village there are some non-catholics who have same thoughts against Mary and saints. they often invite me to leave catholicism and join their group. i know that just being Catholic is not a ‘ticket’ to heaven but just believing in Jesus also is not a guarantee. my parents have always been faithful to Catholic Church and i too wish to remain a Catholic.
and finally…
“therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure.‖Phillippians2:12-13
God bless you
First of all sorry that I added
‘Did Jesus came to you and say dont interceed to mary or other saints?’
ALL CATHOLICS(REAL BELIVERS) BELIVE AND ACCEPT THAT JESUS IS THEIR GOD AND NO OTHER . SO,THEY ALL WILL BE SAVED ACCORDING TO ALL THEIR DEEDS ON LAST DAY…………..
……THEN WHY THERE IS A NEED TO CONVERT CTHOLICS TO NON-CATHOLICS……….
WHY U ALL ARE FIGHTING OVER intercession , WHILE A BIG PArt of worlds population are non christians, they even don’t know Jesus …….
dont we all have a duty to spread Christ’s name to the ends of World …Then why to waste time over this…defending catholics…etc we can use this time for spreading Christianity in your own way at least to your friends.
WHY TO HAVE WAR BETWEEN CATHOLICS VS NON CATHOLICS?
REAL WAR IS BETWEEN SIN AND TRUTH…….
UNDERSTAND YOUR DUTY IS TO SPREAD WORD OF GOD AMONG NON CHRISTIANS AND NOT TO CONVERT CATHOLICS TO NON CATHOLICS.
UNDERSTAND THE REAL MEANING OF GOSPEL ie TO SPREAD THE WORD OF GOD. NOT TO HAVE A MESS UP ALONG BELIVERS ITSELF . (MAINLY CHRISTANITY IS LOOSING ITS VALUE AMONG PEOPLE DUE TO THESE BAD DIVISIONS YOU ARE CREATING, ANY COMMUNITY THAT IS HAVING FIGHTS INSIDE ITSELF WILL SURELY END UP BAD)
SO TRY TO UNDERSTAND GOSPEL WHOLY AND YOUR DUTY. DONT CREAT FIGHTS INSIDE CHRISTIANITY ITSELF……..IT WILL MAKE CHRISTIANTY UNATTRACTIVE AND DO YOU THINK THIS WILL BE A SIN ? ( MAKING CHRISTIANITY UN ATTRACTIVE)
GOD BLESS YOU ALL
@ntoppo
Your arguments about dead and alive saints don’t really address the issue; they sound irrelevant. Really why did you mention “sleeping?”
Now, as far as saints are concerned,
Paul numerously refers to his addressees as saints:
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1)
“Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, to all the saints in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the overseers and deacons” (Philippians 1:1)
or sends greets from saints:
“Finally, brothers, good-by. Aim for perfection, listen to my appeal, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you. Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the saints send their greetings.”
So you words that in the Catholic church one can be considered a saint only after he dies don’t hang together with the Bible.
@Alen
Why are we people fighting over this? Because it is an important issue, which potentially involves idolatry and un-biblical practices.
Yes, you are right. We have to spread the word. But how should we spread it? If a Protestant missionary converts a few people, and then a Catholic will talk to these converts and say, “Your practices are wrong. You are supposed to do this, this and this, not that, that, and that.”
It would be confusing.