Why should we pray to Virgin Mary? The reasons are many.
Why do Catholics pray to Mother Mary? Is Rosary really powerful?
The intercession of Mother Mary is very powerful as Jesus cannot neglect His mothers commands.This can be proved by the first miracle Jesus did at the wedding at Cana. – (John 2:1-11). Mother Mary told Jesus “They have no more wine.” And what was the final result? He turned water into wine.
In “The Poem of the Man-God” by Maria Valtorta, she says that Jesus told her about this incident as “I did it for Mary”. This proves that the intercession of Mother Mary is very very strong.
Mother Mary was blessed with Holy Spirit abundantly. We can see this as we read “At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” (Luke 1:39-41) ; just by Virgin Mary’s greeting.
Listen to the talk from Apologetics on Mary, Purgatory and The Bible
What the angels thought on this matter:-
When angel appeared before Zechariah,father of John, angel just greets him by his name ,nothing more although he was “upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commandments and regulations blamelessly.” – (Luke 1:6)
When angel appeared before Joseph, the greeting was like this: “an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” – (Matthew 1:20). Angel greeted him ‘son of david’, thats all.
Now let us see how did the angel greet Virgin Mary. It goes like this: “The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” (Luke 1:28). See the difference….
Also read the article Mary, The Mystical Rose
I have read most of your Q&A session kind of replies you have posted here. Seems to me like a psychology student posting his defences/arguments against the truth they beleive. They are mostly inclined to defend your beleif system, rather spending time in preaching the gospel which is Jesus Christ.
I notice you have just slightly twisted the truth and presented it, and people who percieve it, most likely tend to get convinced by presentation of your truth. I would really like to point out, but it may go into an endless argument.I’d rather have a child like faith.
Also it is good to understand the word of God , but not by our own intelligence and understanding.
Your arguments tend to say that so many non-catholic beleivers have mis-unterstood or mis-interpreted the cataholic traditions and are trying to attack this beleif system for no reason.
If I Tell you by faith, that there is something wrong in this belief system but dont know what it is, you may try to defend this beleif the best you can, by your knowledge/study or your own understanding of scriptures. But if you beleive you are also saying this by faith, then one of us is influenced by wrong doctrine and is an instrument of satan.
(I found some of the quotes that vijay made very interesting..(the one thing I can’t get past was one Monica made about the length of Mary’s power exercising power, even over God. A lot of this must be understand in poetic, literary terms I’m afraid folks (Protestant brothers and sisters).. but that one I can’t get over/understand. There truly was a mystery going on there/my eyes have been opened in many ways by things people have said on both sides. At the end of the day, I believe one must come down oN.. Jesus’ prayer, “that they might be one..”
Yes, the Catholic [Christian] church believes that all Christians are mystically linked through two of the Sacraments, (marriage), and Baptism..and will be brought together as one again, `cause, let’s face it../that was the Master’s prayer, and we will all be, under Him. We must be! “Tonight, we can be as one.. Tonight! ……” `till then, we should be on about His work, Amen?? `so he doesn’t find us as wicked and lazy servants! I’ve found some beliefs again, impossible to escape when you think about their arguments.. (against contraception, etc..), Jesus’ words “unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no part in me” basically..oR my Kingdom../no life in you essentially.. These words cannot be denied, and the idea, thought (on a philosophical basis likE.. how do I!/wE say to God, all-powerful.. nO!! I wiLL not be a gatekeeper for your life to come through, etc.. ……I! will play God, exercise authority over which egg comes to life, etc../separating it outside of the love.. I mean from a financial/practical aspect.. (if it became a problem, I can’t pretend to know my solution..(natural family planning/calendar method, etc..)/abstinence (going forward..) buT.. again, from the perspective of teaching/doctrine saying no to God in this regard makes no sense! `does not stand to reason!
I am well familiar with the Chick Publications arguments, etc.. I cut my teeth on that stuff.. Yes, as many have more aptly noted than I could here, the Cherubim of the Ark [of the Covenant] in the Holy of Holies, in the Temple are cited, etc../for that matter, yes, as someone noted Christian films, etc..(would not pictures be considered a graven image..) What one person here cited about us (through Christ’s work) sharing in God basically [the Trinity]/the divine nature, was truly mind-blowing.., and helpful, in the one quote Monica made of divine Mother basically..(which would be through the redemptive work of her Son, appropriated to her before the foundation of the world.. (the Immaculate Conception) (a mystery)../also that whole poetic thing going there about the way God worked in her../the New Eve, etc..(her Son the new/second Adam…/paradise…/Heaven..etc..
A well studied Catholic brother shared some incredible things from the Scriptures, which ran along such lines../several passages from the Old..peRfectly mirrored in the New Testament about the ARK,,(of the Covenant) carrying..and heR carrying, the presence of God, etc……….also some great woman of God from the Jewish../Pre-Christian times who smote../drove a spike through this evil enemies head../a typecast../foreshadowing of Mary’s fulfillment of the FIRST (of 456) Messianic prophecy(-ies).. as so many have cited.. Genesis 3..”I will put enmity between your seed, and the seed of the woman, he will bruise his heel../and He will crush his head.”
I would encourage everyone to trust God../as He is able to save those who are lost..(as many see others..on either side of the Reformation.. as Paul said.. “for it is God who works in us to will and to do according to His good pleasure!! Therefore I would encourage all not to be so worked up or zealous..as to think they know “who will sit beside the Lord in His Kingdom, etc..”/their brother.. `cause as Paul said..”GOD is able to make him stand..” (Romans 14?) The greatest among you will be the least.. (Jesus) Let’s not worry about the wheat and the tares!! HE will sort it out’.. /call a church out of every tribe and nation and people and tongue.. HE is able to do it. We best be on about His business and we will SEE.. on that DAY!!
GOD BLESS EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU!!
Love, your brother,
David
p.s. It may be worth noting that God used the Catholic church to “write”/hand down the Bible. I tried/vainly to prove them wrong and, praise the Lord, I am not boasting when I say I know the Bible well. There is../they have a Scripture for everything/Doctrine they believe, believe it or not!
Once again, in closing, Praise Be the the Lord Jesus Christ! !!!
David,
the one thing I can’t get past was one Monica made about the length of Mary’s power exercising power, even over God
One saint that I recall saying something along these lines is St. Alphonso Liguori. I’ll see if I can find the context if you want me too (I’m not sure if I’m butting in or not-let me know)
Thanks
Cheryl
Amen??
Amen! David, that’s where it’s at.
Cheryl,
I have read most of your Q&A session kind of replies you have posted here. Seems to me like a psychology student posting his defences/arguments against the truth they beleive.
‘Against the truth they believe?’ No. I believe what I’ve written. As for being ‘like’ a psychology student…well I’m not really sure what to say. I’ve had no formal training beyond highschool and most theological students can run circles around me. All I can say I suppose, is, ‘This is how I write’.
They are mostly inclined to defend your beleif system, rather spending time in preaching the gospel which is Jesus Christ.
Well…I don’t know about, ‘They’, but I try to preach Christ in what I do for others. Being disabled, I wish I could do more, but I try to take care of my family and anyone else that needs taking care of.
I notice you have just slightly twisted the truth and presented it, and people who percieve it, most likely tend to get convinced by presentation of your truth.
Hmmm. I’m not really sure how to take this. I’m like everyone else here….just trying to offer a ‘reason for the hope that is in me’ (1 Peter 3:15).
I would really like to point out, but it may go into an endless argument.I’d rather have a child like faith.
Child-like faith is the only kind of faith to have. If you would like to point something out…go ahead. I doubt either of us will change our convictions (as they’re based on something greater-for instance, I won’t go against Catholic teaching). But we can still talk. Ultimately, I don’t feel as if I have to ‘find’ verses to defend what I believe, Church authority is enough for me. All the verses I’ve presented above just came to me as I was writing. I love Scripture! I am thankful to God that as I write, Scripture comes to mind.
Also it is good to understand the word of God , but not by our own intelligence and understanding.
That’s very true.
Your arguments tend to say that so many non-catholic beleivers have mis-unterstood or mis-interpreted the cataholic traditions and are trying to attack this beleif system for no reason.
Everyone has a reason. It’s just that…well…alot of the things said here about Catholicism are worlds apart from the Catholicism I know.
If I Tell you by faith, that there is something wrong in this belief system but dont know what it is, you may try to defend this beleif the best you can, by your knowledge/study or your own understanding of scriptures.
No. If you said, ‘Cheryl, something just isn’t right here…but I can’t really put my finger on it.’ I’d try to respect that. We’ve all been there. Some of us (ie, me) never leave :). The most I’d say would probably be something along the lines of, ‘Well, if it comes to you…let me know’.
But if you beleive you are also saying this by faith,
I do.
then one of us is influenced by wrong doctrine and is an instrument of satan.
I disagree with the whole being an ‘instrument of satan’ thing. Christians can be legitimately wrong about something. None of us are perfect…we all fall short. There’s always room for growth and correction. That’s what I appreciated the most about David’s post above. It’s not about ‘being right’ or ‘winning an argument’. It’s about trying to come to a consensus on the things that really matter, so that you, me, David, Georgy and all Christians can be one Church again-in the full sense of the word.
Anyways, whatever you decided to do (continue this conversation or not), is fine with me. I hope you had a wonderful and blessed Thanksgiving. I thank God for the discussion we’ve had so far. I hope you’ve derived some benefit from it as I have. May God shower you in His blessings. Your sister in Christ.
Cheryl
3.WHERE WAS MARY WHEN THE LORD WAS CREATING THE WORLD?
3) In His heart and mind.
Reply: its not only the Mary, whoever getting the salvation of Jesus Christ are all in his heart and mind and they are foretold before the world was created.
6.WHY COULDN’T MARY SAVE JESUS FROM THE CRUCIFIXION?
6) It wasn’t God’s will. If it were God’s will, Mary would have (albeit by some miracle), for nothing is impossible with God and he can enable anyone to do anything. Similiarly, Jesus could have saved Himself, but His will was the Father’s-that He should remain on the cross, dying for the whole world (Mary included). Remember: “‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘but he can’t save himself! He’s the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.’†Matt 27:42. I don’t think who could have saved who from the crucifixion is a very good argument.
Reply: my question was WHY COULDN’T MARY SAVE JESUS FROM THE CRUCIFIXION? The answer is It wasn’t God’s will. If it were God’s will, Mary would have (albeit by some miracle) that’s it no other stuffs needed for that question I think that you may get it thanks.
7.AFTER JESUS ROSEN FROM THE DEATH. WHAT DID HE SAID TO THE APOSTLES. DOES HE SAID TO WORSHIP MARY?
8. OK WHO IS GOING TO GIVE U THE JUDGEMENT DAY?
8) I don’t understand what you mean by, ‘Give us the Judgment Day’.
Reply: The white throne judgment will be given to all of them in the world, we know that but judgment will be given one after one for one at a time so WHO IS GOING TO GIVE U THE JUDGEMENT is correct I think so . and my opinion is you are the first person to get the judgment I think so because u know the rosary better than every one.
10.OK DON’T BELIEVE ANY FOLK STORY OR TALES ABOUT MARY SHE IS THE RESPECTABLE LADY BUT NOT GOD.
10) Please understand (and this pertains to all), Mary is not God. She never was and never will be. Neither has the Catholic Church ever…and I mean ever claimed she was God. Do you remember the Athanasian Creed you use to pray as a Catholic? How did it start? It started with, “I believe in One God…â€
 Reply: Mary is not God – good good!!!!
 She never was and never will be – very good very good!!!!!!!
 Neither has the Catholic Church ever…and I mean ever claimed she was God-
Reply: oh oh oh oh oh this is too bad it’s according to you and your church friend. I think that you are in a marvelous, tremendous, and fantastic and as well as a wonderful spiritual catholic church I think so this is the first time hearing about this miracle church where it is I want to see that. Will you please?
And which country do you belong to?
Define Athanasian?
Do you remember the Athanasian Creed you use to pray as a Catholic? How did it start? It started with, “I believe in One God…â€
Reply: The starting of the prayer is nice FRIEND but the finishing is????????????????????????? Nice to hear that when your saying “I believe in One God…†but practically is 0000000000000000000000000000000000.
SO BELIEVE THE ONE AND ONLY JESUS THE LORD OF US.
11) Define, ‘believe’.
Reply: Ok friend I don’t know the definition of ‘believe’ you define that please.
(2.) Should we pray to Mary???
15) There is a difference in
asking, ‘Should…we do something’ and ‘May…we do something’. A person can live out their entire life, never ask Mary for anything and still be saved.
Reply: I don’t need the difference between should, May and ask.try to answer the question my dear friend
Roman Catholics believe that Mary, the mother of Jesus, remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and was sinless all of her life. She is worshiped in the Catholic church as the “Mother of God†and the “Queen of Heaven.†St. Bernard stated that she was crowned “Queen of Heaven†by God the Father, and that she currently sits upon a throne in Heaven making intercession for Christians.
16) All Christians will be crowned and seated with Christ on His throne. “To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throneâ€. Rev 3:21. What else would you call a woman enthroned? Princess? Empress? HRH? Queen? What if this woman were enthroned in England? HRH, The Queen of England. Now, what if she were enthroned in heaven? The Queen of Heaven. I hope to be a queen of heaven…or at least a princess…some day. Catholics call Mary, ‘Queen of Heaven’, because Heaven is the country wherein she sits with Christ upon His throne, endowed with a crown that will never fade.
Reply: I never heared a funny and a craziest answer before nice imagination chery keep it up.
Reply: Ok ok I will give you the answer in my next article about “Mother of God†and the “Queen of Heaven.â€
Note: when ever you prefer to write the answer try to read the question once or twice and answer thanks.
All Christians will be crowned and seated with Christ on His throne. “To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throneâ€. Rev 3:21. What else would you call a woman enthroned? Princess? Empress? HRH? Queen? What if this woman were enthroned in England? HRH, The Queen of England. Now, what if she were enthroned in heaven? The Queen of Heaven. I hope to be a queen of heaven…or at least a princess…some day. Catholics call Mary, ‘Queen of Heaven’, because Heaven is the country wherein she sits with Christ upon His throne, endowed with a crown that will never fade.
Reply: what about the Elizabeth the mother of john the baptize and other righteous Christian women’s like mother Theresa and etc now start making glossary for these above mentioned persons also may be they will also save from you all sins and sorrows.
Note: not satisfied with this answer you have given.
The Bible teaches otherwise. In the Bible, Mary was a sinner just like the rest of us. She said herself that she needed a “Saviour†(Lk. 1:47), and she even had to offer a sacrifice for her sins in Luke 2:24.
17) Of course she needed a Saviour, but it does not follow that she first sinned. If you were walking in a park unaware that a robber was lurking in the bushes and God prevented that robber from attacking you, would He be any less your Saviour? Or would He be more of a Saviour to first allow the robber to attack and mug you, then after the robber was gone, dress your wounds, dust you off and give you a fifty with an offer to drive you to the police station to fill out a report so you could get your stolen goods back? Mary is an outstanding example, but she is an example of what God does for all of us day in and day out. He alone knows how many potential traps are out there waiting for us, while we blissfully go about our day unaware of all He is saving us from. God never ceases to be our Saviour. Whether we ask for forgiveness for sins already done or ask that He, ‘lead us not into temptation…’, His saving grace is always at work.
Reply: 1.nice story where did you get this story.
2. What do you mean by Mary is an outstanding example?
3. Dont be confused when reading the question friend.
this question and others related to Mary have been included under this heading.
14) All Christians are mediators, in, with and by the power of the One Mediator, Jesus Christ. Jesus’ role as Mediator springs in part from His hypostatic union (the union of God and Man). That’s not all, because He assumed true human flesh, flesh common to all people and united it with His divine person,(His humanity thus shares in the divine attributes while remaining perfectly human), all who have been born of the Spirit, as members of Christ’s Body, has a share in His divine attributes. Hence, He sent them out into the world saying, “Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give†Matt. 10:8. Now can mere men do such things? No. It is not within human nature to have such power. Are they then God(s)? No. They were men as St. Paul testifies after a crowd in Lystra thought he was a god for healing a crippled man. (Acts 14:8-18) What then? Peter gives us the answer when he says, “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.†(2 Peter 1:3-4)
Reply: I think that you can write another scripture kike Koran and Mormonism book
Nice imagination but don’t play with gods words I warn!! You my friend.
There’s only ONE mediator between God and men, and it isn’t Mary (I Tim. 2:5).
19) See above (9,14). As an aside, looking at the matter from an anthropological and psychological point of view, ‘mother’ and ‘mediatrix’ are closely interconnected. So much so as to be identical in certain cases. Applying this general rule to Mary specifically, it is at least linguistically possible to call her the Mother (Mediatrix) of Grace (Grace=Christ, “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.†Jn 1:14)
Reply: instead of speaking in anthropological and psychological point of view please go through in the way of bible view my friend.
The last time we hear from Mary in the Bible she is praying WITH the disciples, not being prayed to BY the disciples (Acts 1:14).
20) So no one talked to her then, asked questions, or beseeched her to pray for them?
Reply: Once again read the question carefully and steadily and then answer me friend don’t try to write any thing that goes in your mind. Thanks,
The Bible never exalts Mary above anyone else. Neither should we.
21) Define ‘exalt’ please.
Reply: Try to get the meaning this is not way of answering friend.
(1) The Bible says nothing about Mary ascending into heaven in some special way. She went to heaven as all do through faith in Christ as God’s Son who died for our sin, including hers.
25) Can you clarify what you mean by, ‘some special way’ as opposed to, ‘as all do through faith…’? Thanks.
Reply: ‘some special way’ as like the Roman Catholic go to the heaven by the way of rosary without the way of salvation of Jesus. I am not blaming your church friend because yours is a spiritual church who follows the words of bible.
It is to serve giving religious respect and glory to someone or something such as services in honor of that person, or giving sacrifices. Service speaks of honor. Also the Bible uses the phrase “to bow down before†(Exo 34:14) or to kneel (Mat 4:9) before something or somebody. Therefore no figure neither created by human hands nor found naturally in the world is to be or represent God. We worship God spiritually because God is a spirit.
31) Should we then not bow before the physical/natural/fleshy Christ?
Reply: Once again read the question carefully and steadily and then answer me friend doesn’t try to write any thing that goes in your mind. Thanks,
Is Mary the Queen of Heaven?
The expression “Queen of Heaven†occurs in the Bible only in Jeremiah 7:18; 44:17-25. It is a false goddess that Israel worshipped (served) in their idolatry, for which God punished them. To identify Mary with this “Queen of Heaven†is to identify her with a false religion prohibited by God.
41) Catholics don’t identify her ‘with this Queen of Heaven’. Mary, as ‘Queen of Heaven’ bears no theological semblance to what God had condemned in Jeremiah’s day. The above argument is like saying, “Faith alone†occurs only once, in James 2:24. Per James 2:24, it does not justify, is dead, ect. Therefore any Christian who claims that we are “justified by ‘faith alone’â€, is in serious error-contra to Scripture. I’ve heard some Catholics argue in just this fashion. And to this Catholic, it’s one of the most annoying arguments anyone could make. They are wrong to try to identify Luther’s ‘faith alone’ with the ‘faith alone’ James condemns. They’re two totally different things-not even in the same universe, despite the one-to-one wording.
Reply: read my next article Mary Worship is Crazy!
________________________________________
God tells the truth about mankind:
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.” (Romans 3:10)
“For there is not a just man upon earth, that does good, and does not sin.” (Ecclesiastes 7:20)
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23)
“…For there is no man that sins not….” (1 Kings 8:46)
“All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him [Jesus] the iniquity of us all.” (Isaiah 53:6)
God says that He must punish sin:
“Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4)
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)
God tells the inside story about His remedy for sin:
“Come now, and let us reason together, says the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” (Isaiah 1:18)
“God commends [demonstrates] His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)
“Who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed.” (l Peter 2:24)
“He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit.” (Titus 3:5)
“For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8, 9)
God wants to save you and will save you if you will follow His instructions:
“He who believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he who believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:36)
“And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, and your household.” (Acts 16:31)
“To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whoever believes in Him shall receive remission of sins.” (Acts 10:43)
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
“And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book: but these are written, that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you might have life through His name.” (John 20:30, 31)
God definitely declares that there is only one way to be saved:
“Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.” (John 14:6)
“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)
“Jesus said, I am the resurrection and the life: he that believes in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” (John 11:25, 26)
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” (l Timothy 2:5)
Christ extends to you a personal invitation:
“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me; and he that comes to Me I will in no wise cast out.” (John 6:37)
Now it is up to you. You have the inside story. What are you going to do about it?
Thanks friend
Praise the lord
Amen
Catholics have 3 Scriptural references for an understanding the notion of Purgatory.
I would like to consider refrences from Holy Bible alone as authentic gods word.I’d better not consider or judge on other sources.
Lets see the biblical references you quoted…
(I believe it will be very much like the one/any such experience of such.) The one has been referenced above, by a Catholic Christian brother, I believe.. (Jesus.. speaking some quote of, “You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.â€
“Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.” Mat 5:26
This illustration assumes that you owe your accuser a debt of some kind, and to collect on it he is taking you to small claims court. Jesus is saying: Don’t wait until you get to court to work out some kind of deal; settle out of court. Beware of Judge Judy! Because if the court has to decide the matter, you will be thrown into debtor’s prison and won’t get out until every last cent is paid. Remaining imprisoned until a debt is repaid down to the last penny, elicits a sense of impossibility (cf. Matt 18:34), since the debtor had no chance to work to create funds or raise funds.
The one I believe/understand is the quote from the New Testament, Jesus, I believe, where it talks about the Judgement where your works of “wood, hay and stubble†(as opposed to righteous/noble works (gold, silver, etc.) would be burned up/quenched in the fire (in an/that instant), I believe, and it talks about one would be saved, but only as one escaping through flames basically../(ones clothes smelling like smoke.)
“Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.” 1 Corinthians 3:12-13
God has a design, a field of service planned for each believer. The ‘good works’, which the Christian is to perform, are those which make up ‘that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.’ Our “works” will come under the inspection from Him whose eyes are “as a flame of fire” (Rev. 1:14; 2:18). The Divine Judge who will examine our works is none other than our Lord Jesus Christ. John 5:22 states: “For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.” The judgment seat of Christ will be a time when the true character of our works will be manifested. “To be manifested, in the Scriptural sense of the word, is more than to appear. A person may appear in a false guise or without a disclosure of what he truly is; to be manifested is to be revealed in one’s true character….” The examination of our works will bring to light whether they were good or “bad” (kakos), meaning “worthless.” The true character of our service (1 Cor. 3:13), as well as our motives (1 Cor. 4:5) will be revealed.
What will be the results of this examination? The believer will either receive a reward (1 Cor. 3:8a), or forfeit reward (1 Cor. 3:15). the believer must build on the proper foundation, and others were to build on that foundation, which is Christ (1 Cor. 3:10-11). The believer must also build on that foundation with the proper materials. Two types of builders and two kinds of materials are mentioned. The spiritual believer will build with gold, silver, and precious stones; the worldly believer will build with wood, hay, and stubble (1 Cor. 3:12-15). The gold, silver, and precious stones are a product of creation, while the wood, hay, and stubble are a result of natural growth. The former are the results of the Spirit of God working through the believer’s life, while the latter represent the fleshly works of the old nature. No one builds completely with gold, silver, precious stones, or with wood, hay, and stubble. In this life one’s achievements may seem massive and imposing, yet at the judgment seat they will be revealed for what they are: wood, hay, and stubble. “The day shall declare it” (1 Cor. 3:13).
All works produced through self-confidence, self-conceit, and some other words that begin with the prefix self- (and there are many), will be examined at the judgment seat only to be found wood or stubble.
The Scriptures speak of five crowns that will be awarded the believer whose life has been faithful to the Lord.(1) The Crown of Life or “Martyr’s Crown” – Js. 1:12; Rev. 2:10, (2) The Crown of Glory or “Pastor’s Crown” – 1 Pet. 5:2-4, (3) The Crown of Rejoicing or “Soul Winner’s Crown” – 1 Thess. 2:19, 20; Phil. 4:1, (4) The Crown of Righteousness for those who “love His appearing” – 2 Tim. 4:8, (5) The Incorruptible Crown or “Victor’s Crown” (1 Cor. 9:25-27)
So we might miss out all of them and just be saved from the fire of hell.
The final reference is from an Apocryphal book, [Judith? maybe?] which they have also been referenced here and has to do with some noble King/Leader in Israel, saying prayers for those that had died.
I cannot comment on other books which i cannot take as reference.
SO I DONT SEE ANY PURGORATORY HERE
the one thing I can’t get past was one Monica made about the length of Mary’s power exercising power, even over God. A lot of this must be understand in poetic, literary terms I’m afraid folks (Protestant brothers and sisters)
Brother,
There are many hindu scriptures, which are profoundly well scripted and poetically magnificient and are considered Literary Art form. Shall we accept them as well?
the Catholic [Christian] church believes that all Christians are mystically linked through two of the Sacraments, (marriage), and Baptism..and will be brought together as one again.
This Every christian Agrees.
“For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.For the body is not one member, but many.” – 1 Corinthians 12:12-14
in the one quote Monica made of divine Mother basically..(which would be through the redemptive work of her Son, appropriated to her before the foundation of the world.. (the Immaculate Conception) (a mystery)../also that whole poetic thing going there about the way God worked in her../the New Eve, etc…
Part of this this is un-biblical. (made of divine Mother , appropriated to her , the New Eve.)
p.s. It may be worth noting that God used the Catholic church to “writeâ€/hand down the Bible. I tried/vainly to prove them wrong and, praise the Lord, I am not boasting when I say I know the Bible well. There is../they have a Scripture(Adulterated) for everything/Doctrine they believe, believe it or not!
Once again, in closing, Praise Be the the Lord Jesus Christ! !!!
I do not know the history of how bible has come into existance of current form, so i cannot comment on it.
Dear Cheryl, I will reply to your comments shortly.
HI SELVAKUMAR.S. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR TESTIMONY PLEASE.
GOD BLESS!
Please find my replies….
‘Against the truth they believe?’ No. I believe what I’ve written. As for being ‘like’ a psychology student…well I’m not really sure what to say. I’ve had no formal training beyond highschool and most theological students can run circles around me. All I can say I suppose, is, ‘This is how I write’.
I was trying to say, you are making psychological points of view rather than a biblical points of view.And well every thing you beleive may not be biblical, but still you are able to argue and convince on those points effectively. Dont mind me saying that , with a mixed record as a student, Hitler never advanced beyond a secondary education but successfully led Germany into WWII. I agree and have respect for writing skills you elevate to putforth the views you hold on to.
Well…I don’t know about, ‘They’, but I try to preach Christ in what I do for others. Being disabled, I wish I could do more, but I try to take care of my family and anyone else that needs taking care of.
They in the sense, I meant your argumets. My request was to concentrate on Gospel (Jesus Christ) as taught by the Apostles, not the adulterated version(Mary).
Just need to follow these verses…
This Spirit-inspired presentation of the Gospel (Acts 2: 1-4, 17, 33) was prophesied in the Old Testament (Acts 2: 16-21) and Jesus had promised it would happen. (Acts 1:7-8; also Luke 24:45-49) The message focuses on how people are saved (Acts 2: 21, 40, 47) and answers the question, “What must we do?†(Acts 2: 37; also Acts 16:25-34) It teaches us how we can be forgiven of our sins (Acts 2: 38) and how we receive the Holy Spirit as a gift. (Acts 2: 38-39) This fulfillment of the Great Commission, (Luke 24:46-48; Matthew 28:18-20) tells how people are added to the family of God (Acts 2: 41, 47)
Hmmm. I’m not really sure how to take this. I’m like everyone else here….just trying to offer a ‘reason for the hope that is in me’ (1 Peter 3:15).
The Bible warns us to not be gullible on this matter concerning the preaching of Jesus. Paul warns the Corinthians,”But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.” 2Cor 11:3,4
Judge yourself vigorously in all possible ways before preaching your beliefs in the light of true word of God
Child-like faith is the only kind of faith to have. If you would like to point something out…go ahead. I doubt either of us will change our convictions (as they’re based on something greater-for instance, I won’t go against Catholic teaching). But we can still talk. Ultimately, I don’t feel as if I have to ‘find’ verses to defend what I believe, Church authority is enough for me. All the verses I’ve presented above just came to me as I was writing. I love Scripture! I am thankful to God that as I write, Scripture comes to mind.
As long as we stick to the bible every thing is fine, well and good. But when you depart from this, only then the differences arise and i feel a necessasity to point out those areas. Commiting to Catholic teachings and traditions inolves certain un-biblical acceptances which i have already pointed out in my previous posts with references from Vatican documents. And i already warned that if we choose to stand under those umbrellas(Catholic Authority), one day you need to answer for all those beliefs with rest of them.
That’s very true.
Well then start understanding why people Protested to Catholicism.
Everyone has a reason. It’s just that…well…alot of the things said here about Catholicism are worlds apart from the Catholicism I know.
What you know, is not the world knows about Catholism.There should be some reason dont you think why Protetantism has come forth. When you are trying to subject yourself to such a controvertial Authority, you should be carefull where it will drag you at the end.
No. If you said, ‘Cheryl, something just isn’t right here…but I can’t really put my finger on it.’ I’d try to respect that. We’ve all been there. Some of us (ie, me) never leave :). The most I’d say would probably be something along the lines of, ‘Well, if it comes to you…let me know’.
It has already been pointed out many no of times, by many no of people with proper biblical references.”Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive.”-Matthew 13:14
I do.
Which faith is it? Gift of Faith, Fruit of Faith or Measure of Faith. Or none of these?
I disagree with the whole being an ‘instrument of satan’ thing. Christians can be legitimately wrong about something. None of us are perfect…we all fall short. There’s always room for growth and correction. That’s what I appreciated the most about David’s post above. It’s not about ‘being right’ or ‘winning an argument’. It’s about trying to come to a consensus on the things that really matter, so that you, me, David, Georgy and all Christians can be one Church again-in the full sense of the word.
Anyways, whatever you decided to do (continue this conversation or not), is fine with me. I hope you had a wonderful and blessed Thanksgiving. I thank God for the discussion we’ve had so far. I hope you’ve derived some benefit from it as I have. May God shower you in His blessings. Your sister in Christ.
You are right saying that any christian can be legimately wrong in many no of things, due to various reasons. But being an Instrument of Satan is a different thing.Jesus had chosen Judas Ischariot as one of his disciples, though he foreknew he would deceive him .He was an instrument in the hands of Satan. There is no room for growth or correction in such cases. When your actions are becoming a hindrance to the works of the Lord, then the judgement falls upon you.Should be carefull we not take astray even a single soul.God might forgive you for your own sins and ignorance of word of god in Christ Jesus. But when you take the souls astray from the truth, thats when God tries to warn you by various means.And beleive me there is no PURGATORY to have a 2nd chance.
Thank you And God Bless you.
SELVAKUMAR.S,
read my next article Mary Worship is Crazy!
No thanks. I’ll pass. I can’t deal with sarcastic comments like:
My opinion is you are the first person to get the judgment I think so because u know the rosary better than every one and I think that you can write another scripture like Koran and Mormonism book
BTW, you do know that Mother Therese was a faithful Catholic, that she believed all that the Church taught her.
In God’s grace.
Cheryl
Dear Cheryl,
I was trying to say, you are making psychological points of view rather than a biblical points of view.And well every thing you beleive may not be biblical, but still you are able to argue and convince on those points effectively. Dont mind me saying that , with a mixed record as a student, Hitler never advanced beyond a secondary education but successfully led Germany into WWII. I agree and have respect for writing skills you elevate to putforth the views you hold on to.
Okay.
They in the sense, I meant your argumets. My request was to concentrate on Gospel (Jesus Christ) as taught by the Apostles, not the adulterated version(Mary).
For me, what the Catholic Church teaches is the Gospel as taught by the Apostles. So I guess we’re at an impasse.
Just need to follow these verses…
This Spirit-inspired presentation of the Gospel (Acts 2: 1-4, 17, 33) was prophesied in the Old Testament (Acts 2: 16-21) and Jesus had promised it would happen. (Acts 1:7-8; also Luke 24:45-49) The message focuses on how people are saved (Acts 2: 21, 40, 47) and answers the question, “What must we do?†(Acts 2: 37; also Acts 16:25-34) It teaches us how we can be forgiven of our sins (Acts 2: 38) and how we receive the Holy Spirit as a gift. (Acts 2: 38-39) This fulfillment of the Great Commission, (Luke 24:46-48; Matthew 28:18-20) tells how people are added to the family of God (Acts 2: 41, 47)
While my faith includes all this, it also includes what the Catholic Church teaches me (both in the form of ‘tradition’ and in how to interpret the Bible).
The Bible warns us to not be gullible on this matter concerning the preaching of Jesus. Paul warns the Corinthians,â€But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.†2Cor 11:3,4
Judge yourself vigorously in all possible ways before preaching your beliefs in the light of true word of God
My judgment of myself is this: That I am fallible (and gullible). I can read Scripture and interpret it correctly. I can also read Scripture and interpret it wrongly. The Catholic Church tells me where I go wrong. She protects me from my own gullibility.
As long as we stick to the bible every thing is fine, well and good.
The Catholic Church gave me the Bible. I can’t use her own Scriptures against her.
But when you depart from this, only then the differences arise and i feel a necessasity to point out those areas.
That’s fine.
Commiting to Catholic teachings and traditions inolves certain un-biblical acceptances which i have already pointed out in my previous posts with references from Vatican documents. And i already warned that if we choose to stand under those umbrellas(Catholic Authority), one day you need to answer for all those beliefs with rest of them.
Just as you are not convinced by my arguments, so I am not convinced by yours. Actually, we’re very much alike in that-except we are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
Well then start understanding why people Protested to Catholicism.
I try and to a large extent I do. I wasn’t raised Catholic. I grew up in a very Conservative (almost anti-Catholic) Lutheran Church.
What you know, is not the world knows about Catholism.
What about Catholics themselves? They clearly would not agree with most of the arguments that have been put forth.
There should be some reason dont you think why Protetantism has come forth.
What do you mean, “has come forth”? I’m not familiar with that expression.
When you are trying to subject yourself to such a controvertial Authority, you should be carefull where it will drag you at the end.
Okay.
It has already been pointed out many no of times, by many no of people with proper biblical references.â€Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive.â€-Matthew 13:14
But can you understand that I don’t agree with how those references are being used? I’m not trying to be belligerent, I honestly do not agree with your interpretation of Scripture (and the interpretation of many here).
Which faith is it? Gift of Faith, Fruit of Faith or Measure of Faith. Or none of these?
The faith which comes from childlike trust.
You are right saying that any christian can be legimately wrong in many no of things, due to various reasons. But being an Instrument of Satan is a different thing.Jesus had chosen Judas Ischariot as one of his disciples, though he foreknew he would deceive him .He was an instrument in the hands of Satan. There is no room for growth or correction in such cases. When your actions are becoming a hindrance to the works of the Lord, then the judgement falls upon you.Should be carefull we not take astray even a single soul.God might forgive you for your own sins and ignorance of word of god in Christ Jesus. But when you take the souls astray from the truth, thats when God tries to warn you by various means.And beleive me there is no PURGATORY to have a 2nd chance.
Well, I guess all we can do in such a situation is pray for one another.
Thank you And God Bless you.
And you.
Cheryl