Why should we pray to Virgin Mary? The reasons are many.
Why do Catholics pray to Mother Mary? Is Rosary really powerful?
The intercession of Mother Mary is very powerful as Jesus cannot neglect His mothers commands.This can be proved by the first miracle Jesus did at the wedding at Cana. – (John 2:1-11). Mother Mary told Jesus “They have no more wine.” And what was the final result? He turned water into wine.
In “The Poem of the Man-God” by Maria Valtorta, she says that Jesus told her about this incident as “I did it for Mary”. This proves that the intercession of Mother Mary is very very strong.
Mother Mary was blessed with Holy Spirit abundantly. We can see this as we read “At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” (Luke 1:39-41) ; just by Virgin Mary’s greeting.
Listen to the talk from Apologetics on Mary, Purgatory and The Bible
What the angels thought on this matter:-
When angel appeared before Zechariah,father of John, angel just greets him by his name ,nothing more although he was “upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commandments and regulations blamelessly.” – (Luke 1:6)
When angel appeared before Joseph, the greeting was like this: “an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” – (Matthew 1:20). Angel greeted him ‘son of david’, thats all.
Now let us see how did the angel greet Virgin Mary. It goes like this: “The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” (Luke 1:28). See the difference….
Also read the article Mary, The Mystical Rose
I have read most of your Q&A session kind of replies you have posted here. Seems to me like a psychology student posting his defences/arguments against the truth they beleive. They are mostly inclined to defend your beleif system, rather spending time in preaching the gospel which is Jesus Christ.
I notice you have just slightly twisted the truth and presented it, and people who percieve it, most likely tend to get convinced by presentation of your truth. I would really like to point out, but it may go into an endless argument.I’d rather have a child like faith.
Also it is good to understand the word of God , but not by our own intelligence and understanding.
Your arguments tend to say that so many non-catholic beleivers have mis-unterstood or mis-interpreted the cataholic traditions and are trying to attack this beleif system for no reason.
If I Tell you by faith, that there is something wrong in this belief system but dont know what it is, you may try to defend this beleif the best you can, by your knowledge/study or your own understanding of scriptures. But if you beleive you are also saying this by faith, then one of us is influenced by wrong doctrine and is an instrument of satan.
(I found some of the quotes that vijay made very interesting..(the one thing I can’t get past was one Monica made about the length of Mary’s power exercising power, even over God. A lot of this must be understand in poetic, literary terms I’m afraid folks (Protestant brothers and sisters).. but that one I can’t get over/understand. There truly was a mystery going on there/my eyes have been opened in many ways by things people have said on both sides. At the end of the day, I believe one must come down oN.. Jesus’ prayer, “that they might be one..”
Yes, the Catholic [Christian] church believes that all Christians are mystically linked through two of the Sacraments, (marriage), and Baptism..and will be brought together as one again, `cause, let’s face it../that was the Master’s prayer, and we will all be, under Him. We must be! “Tonight, we can be as one.. Tonight! ……” `till then, we should be on about His work, Amen?? `so he doesn’t find us as wicked and lazy servants! I’ve found some beliefs again, impossible to escape when you think about their arguments.. (against contraception, etc..), Jesus’ words “unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no part in me” basically..oR my Kingdom../no life in you essentially.. These words cannot be denied, and the idea, thought (on a philosophical basis likE.. how do I!/wE say to God, all-powerful.. nO!! I wiLL not be a gatekeeper for your life to come through, etc.. ……I! will play God, exercise authority over which egg comes to life, etc../separating it outside of the love.. I mean from a financial/practical aspect.. (if it became a problem, I can’t pretend to know my solution..(natural family planning/calendar method, etc..)/abstinence (going forward..) buT.. again, from the perspective of teaching/doctrine saying no to God in this regard makes no sense! `does not stand to reason!
I am well familiar with the Chick Publications arguments, etc.. I cut my teeth on that stuff.. Yes, as many have more aptly noted than I could here, the Cherubim of the Ark [of the Covenant] in the Holy of Holies, in the Temple are cited, etc../for that matter, yes, as someone noted Christian films, etc..(would not pictures be considered a graven image..) What one person here cited about us (through Christ’s work) sharing in God basically [the Trinity]/the divine nature, was truly mind-blowing.., and helpful, in the one quote Monica made of divine Mother basically..(which would be through the redemptive work of her Son, appropriated to her before the foundation of the world.. (the Immaculate Conception) (a mystery)../also that whole poetic thing going there about the way God worked in her../the New Eve, etc..(her Son the new/second Adam…/paradise…/Heaven..etc..
A well studied Catholic brother shared some incredible things from the Scriptures, which ran along such lines../several passages from the Old..peRfectly mirrored in the New Testament about the ARK,,(of the Covenant) carrying..and heR carrying, the presence of God, etc……….also some great woman of God from the Jewish../Pre-Christian times who smote../drove a spike through this evil enemies head../a typecast../foreshadowing of Mary’s fulfillment of the FIRST (of 456) Messianic prophecy(-ies).. as so many have cited.. Genesis 3..”I will put enmity between your seed, and the seed of the woman, he will bruise his heel../and He will crush his head.”
I would encourage everyone to trust God../as He is able to save those who are lost..(as many see others..on either side of the Reformation.. as Paul said.. “for it is God who works in us to will and to do according to His good pleasure!! Therefore I would encourage all not to be so worked up or zealous..as to think they know “who will sit beside the Lord in His Kingdom, etc..”/their brother.. `cause as Paul said..”GOD is able to make him stand..” (Romans 14?) The greatest among you will be the least.. (Jesus) Let’s not worry about the wheat and the tares!! HE will sort it out’.. /call a church out of every tribe and nation and people and tongue.. HE is able to do it. We best be on about His business and we will SEE.. on that DAY!!
GOD BLESS EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU!!
Love, your brother,
David
p.s. It may be worth noting that God used the Catholic church to “write”/hand down the Bible. I tried/vainly to prove them wrong and, praise the Lord, I am not boasting when I say I know the Bible well. There is../they have a Scripture for everything/Doctrine they believe, believe it or not!
Once again, in closing, Praise Be the the Lord Jesus Christ! !!!
David,
the one thing I can’t get past was one Monica made about the length of Mary’s power exercising power, even over God
One saint that I recall saying something along these lines is St. Alphonso Liguori. I’ll see if I can find the context if you want me too (I’m not sure if I’m butting in or not-let me know)
Thanks
Cheryl
Amen??
Amen! David, that’s where it’s at.
Cheryl,
I have read most of your Q&A session kind of replies you have posted here. Seems to me like a psychology student posting his defences/arguments against the truth they beleive.
‘Against the truth they believe?’ No. I believe what I’ve written. As for being ‘like’ a psychology student…well I’m not really sure what to say. I’ve had no formal training beyond highschool and most theological students can run circles around me. All I can say I suppose, is, ‘This is how I write’.
They are mostly inclined to defend your beleif system, rather spending time in preaching the gospel which is Jesus Christ.
Well…I don’t know about, ‘They’, but I try to preach Christ in what I do for others. Being disabled, I wish I could do more, but I try to take care of my family and anyone else that needs taking care of.
I notice you have just slightly twisted the truth and presented it, and people who percieve it, most likely tend to get convinced by presentation of your truth.
Hmmm. I’m not really sure how to take this. I’m like everyone else here….just trying to offer a ‘reason for the hope that is in me’ (1 Peter 3:15).
I would really like to point out, but it may go into an endless argument.I’d rather have a child like faith.
Child-like faith is the only kind of faith to have. If you would like to point something out…go ahead. I doubt either of us will change our convictions (as they’re based on something greater-for instance, I won’t go against Catholic teaching). But we can still talk. Ultimately, I don’t feel as if I have to ‘find’ verses to defend what I believe, Church authority is enough for me. All the verses I’ve presented above just came to me as I was writing. I love Scripture! I am thankful to God that as I write, Scripture comes to mind.
Also it is good to understand the word of God , but not by our own intelligence and understanding.
That’s very true.
Your arguments tend to say that so many non-catholic beleivers have mis-unterstood or mis-interpreted the cataholic traditions and are trying to attack this beleif system for no reason.
Everyone has a reason. It’s just that…well…alot of the things said here about Catholicism are worlds apart from the Catholicism I know.
If I Tell you by faith, that there is something wrong in this belief system but dont know what it is, you may try to defend this beleif the best you can, by your knowledge/study or your own understanding of scriptures.
No. If you said, ‘Cheryl, something just isn’t right here…but I can’t really put my finger on it.’ I’d try to respect that. We’ve all been there. Some of us (ie, me) never leave :). The most I’d say would probably be something along the lines of, ‘Well, if it comes to you…let me know’.
But if you beleive you are also saying this by faith,
I do.
then one of us is influenced by wrong doctrine and is an instrument of satan.
I disagree with the whole being an ‘instrument of satan’ thing. Christians can be legitimately wrong about something. None of us are perfect…we all fall short. There’s always room for growth and correction. That’s what I appreciated the most about David’s post above. It’s not about ‘being right’ or ‘winning an argument’. It’s about trying to come to a consensus on the things that really matter, so that you, me, David, Georgy and all Christians can be one Church again-in the full sense of the word.
Anyways, whatever you decided to do (continue this conversation or not), is fine with me. I hope you had a wonderful and blessed Thanksgiving. I thank God for the discussion we’ve had so far. I hope you’ve derived some benefit from it as I have. May God shower you in His blessings. Your sister in Christ.
Cheryl
3.WHERE WAS MARY WHEN THE LORD WAS CREATING THE WORLD?
3) In His heart and mind.
Reply: its not only the Mary, whoever getting the salvation of Jesus Christ are all in his heart and mind and they are foretold before the world was created.
6.WHY COULDN’T MARY SAVE JESUS FROM THE CRUCIFIXION?
6) It wasn’t God’s will. If it were God’s will, Mary would have (albeit by some miracle), for nothing is impossible with God and he can enable anyone to do anything. Similiarly, Jesus could have saved Himself, but His will was the Father’s-that He should remain on the cross, dying for the whole world (Mary included). Remember: “‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘but he can’t save himself! He’s the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.’†Matt 27:42. I don’t think who could have saved who from the crucifixion is a very good argument.
Reply: my question was WHY COULDN’T MARY SAVE JESUS FROM THE CRUCIFIXION? The answer is It wasn’t God’s will. If it were God’s will, Mary would have (albeit by some miracle) that’s it no other stuffs needed for that question I think that you may get it thanks.
7.AFTER JESUS ROSEN FROM THE DEATH. WHAT DID HE SAID TO THE APOSTLES. DOES HE SAID TO WORSHIP MARY?
8. OK WHO IS GOING TO GIVE U THE JUDGEMENT DAY?
8) I don’t understand what you mean by, ‘Give us the Judgment Day’.
Reply: The white throne judgment will be given to all of them in the world, we know that but judgment will be given one after one for one at a time so WHO IS GOING TO GIVE U THE JUDGEMENT is correct I think so . and my opinion is you are the first person to get the judgment I think so because u know the rosary better than every one.
10.OK DON’T BELIEVE ANY FOLK STORY OR TALES ABOUT MARY SHE IS THE RESPECTABLE LADY BUT NOT GOD.
10) Please understand (and this pertains to all), Mary is not God. She never was and never will be. Neither has the Catholic Church ever…and I mean ever claimed she was God. Do you remember the Athanasian Creed you use to pray as a Catholic? How did it start? It started with, “I believe in One God…â€
 Reply: Mary is not God – good good!!!!
 She never was and never will be – very good very good!!!!!!!
 Neither has the Catholic Church ever…and I mean ever claimed she was God-
Reply: oh oh oh oh oh this is too bad it’s according to you and your church friend. I think that you are in a marvelous, tremendous, and fantastic and as well as a wonderful spiritual catholic church I think so this is the first time hearing about this miracle church where it is I want to see that. Will you please?
And which country do you belong to?
Define Athanasian?
Do you remember the Athanasian Creed you use to pray as a Catholic? How did it start? It started with, “I believe in One God…â€
Reply: The starting of the prayer is nice FRIEND but the finishing is????????????????????????? Nice to hear that when your saying “I believe in One God…†but practically is 0000000000000000000000000000000000.
SO BELIEVE THE ONE AND ONLY JESUS THE LORD OF US.
11) Define, ‘believe’.
Reply: Ok friend I don’t know the definition of ‘believe’ you define that please.
(2.) Should we pray to Mary???
15) There is a difference in
asking, ‘Should…we do something’ and ‘May…we do something’. A person can live out their entire life, never ask Mary for anything and still be saved.
Reply: I don’t need the difference between should, May and ask.try to answer the question my dear friend
Roman Catholics believe that Mary, the mother of Jesus, remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and was sinless all of her life. She is worshiped in the Catholic church as the “Mother of God†and the “Queen of Heaven.†St. Bernard stated that she was crowned “Queen of Heaven†by God the Father, and that she currently sits upon a throne in Heaven making intercession for Christians.
16) All Christians will be crowned and seated with Christ on His throne. “To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throneâ€. Rev 3:21. What else would you call a woman enthroned? Princess? Empress? HRH? Queen? What if this woman were enthroned in England? HRH, The Queen of England. Now, what if she were enthroned in heaven? The Queen of Heaven. I hope to be a queen of heaven…or at least a princess…some day. Catholics call Mary, ‘Queen of Heaven’, because Heaven is the country wherein she sits with Christ upon His throne, endowed with a crown that will never fade.
Reply: I never heared a funny and a craziest answer before nice imagination chery keep it up.
Reply: Ok ok I will give you the answer in my next article about “Mother of God†and the “Queen of Heaven.â€
Note: when ever you prefer to write the answer try to read the question once or twice and answer thanks.
All Christians will be crowned and seated with Christ on His throne. “To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throneâ€. Rev 3:21. What else would you call a woman enthroned? Princess? Empress? HRH? Queen? What if this woman were enthroned in England? HRH, The Queen of England. Now, what if she were enthroned in heaven? The Queen of Heaven. I hope to be a queen of heaven…or at least a princess…some day. Catholics call Mary, ‘Queen of Heaven’, because Heaven is the country wherein she sits with Christ upon His throne, endowed with a crown that will never fade.
Reply: what about the Elizabeth the mother of john the baptize and other righteous Christian women’s like mother Theresa and etc now start making glossary for these above mentioned persons also may be they will also save from you all sins and sorrows.
Note: not satisfied with this answer you have given.
The Bible teaches otherwise. In the Bible, Mary was a sinner just like the rest of us. She said herself that she needed a “Saviour†(Lk. 1:47), and she even had to offer a sacrifice for her sins in Luke 2:24.
17) Of course she needed a Saviour, but it does not follow that she first sinned. If you were walking in a park unaware that a robber was lurking in the bushes and God prevented that robber from attacking you, would He be any less your Saviour? Or would He be more of a Saviour to first allow the robber to attack and mug you, then after the robber was gone, dress your wounds, dust you off and give you a fifty with an offer to drive you to the police station to fill out a report so you could get your stolen goods back? Mary is an outstanding example, but she is an example of what God does for all of us day in and day out. He alone knows how many potential traps are out there waiting for us, while we blissfully go about our day unaware of all He is saving us from. God never ceases to be our Saviour. Whether we ask for forgiveness for sins already done or ask that He, ‘lead us not into temptation…’, His saving grace is always at work.
Reply: 1.nice story where did you get this story.
2. What do you mean by Mary is an outstanding example?
3. Dont be confused when reading the question friend.
this question and others related to Mary have been included under this heading.
14) All Christians are mediators, in, with and by the power of the One Mediator, Jesus Christ. Jesus’ role as Mediator springs in part from His hypostatic union (the union of God and Man). That’s not all, because He assumed true human flesh, flesh common to all people and united it with His divine person,(His humanity thus shares in the divine attributes while remaining perfectly human), all who have been born of the Spirit, as members of Christ’s Body, has a share in His divine attributes. Hence, He sent them out into the world saying, “Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give†Matt. 10:8. Now can mere men do such things? No. It is not within human nature to have such power. Are they then God(s)? No. They were men as St. Paul testifies after a crowd in Lystra thought he was a god for healing a crippled man. (Acts 14:8-18) What then? Peter gives us the answer when he says, “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.†(2 Peter 1:3-4)
Reply: I think that you can write another scripture kike Koran and Mormonism book
Nice imagination but don’t play with gods words I warn!! You my friend.
There’s only ONE mediator between God and men, and it isn’t Mary (I Tim. 2:5).
19) See above (9,14). As an aside, looking at the matter from an anthropological and psychological point of view, ‘mother’ and ‘mediatrix’ are closely interconnected. So much so as to be identical in certain cases. Applying this general rule to Mary specifically, it is at least linguistically possible to call her the Mother (Mediatrix) of Grace (Grace=Christ, “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.†Jn 1:14)
Reply: instead of speaking in anthropological and psychological point of view please go through in the way of bible view my friend.
The last time we hear from Mary in the Bible she is praying WITH the disciples, not being prayed to BY the disciples (Acts 1:14).
20) So no one talked to her then, asked questions, or beseeched her to pray for them?
Reply: Once again read the question carefully and steadily and then answer me friend don’t try to write any thing that goes in your mind. Thanks,
The Bible never exalts Mary above anyone else. Neither should we.
21) Define ‘exalt’ please.
Reply: Try to get the meaning this is not way of answering friend.
(1) The Bible says nothing about Mary ascending into heaven in some special way. She went to heaven as all do through faith in Christ as God’s Son who died for our sin, including hers.
25) Can you clarify what you mean by, ‘some special way’ as opposed to, ‘as all do through faith…’? Thanks.
Reply: ‘some special way’ as like the Roman Catholic go to the heaven by the way of rosary without the way of salvation of Jesus. I am not blaming your church friend because yours is a spiritual church who follows the words of bible.
It is to serve giving religious respect and glory to someone or something such as services in honor of that person, or giving sacrifices. Service speaks of honor. Also the Bible uses the phrase “to bow down before†(Exo 34:14) or to kneel (Mat 4:9) before something or somebody. Therefore no figure neither created by human hands nor found naturally in the world is to be or represent God. We worship God spiritually because God is a spirit.
31) Should we then not bow before the physical/natural/fleshy Christ?
Reply: Once again read the question carefully and steadily and then answer me friend doesn’t try to write any thing that goes in your mind. Thanks,
Is Mary the Queen of Heaven?
The expression “Queen of Heaven†occurs in the Bible only in Jeremiah 7:18; 44:17-25. It is a false goddess that Israel worshipped (served) in their idolatry, for which God punished them. To identify Mary with this “Queen of Heaven†is to identify her with a false religion prohibited by God.
41) Catholics don’t identify her ‘with this Queen of Heaven’. Mary, as ‘Queen of Heaven’ bears no theological semblance to what God had condemned in Jeremiah’s day. The above argument is like saying, “Faith alone†occurs only once, in James 2:24. Per James 2:24, it does not justify, is dead, ect. Therefore any Christian who claims that we are “justified by ‘faith alone’â€, is in serious error-contra to Scripture. I’ve heard some Catholics argue in just this fashion. And to this Catholic, it’s one of the most annoying arguments anyone could make. They are wrong to try to identify Luther’s ‘faith alone’ with the ‘faith alone’ James condemns. They’re two totally different things-not even in the same universe, despite the one-to-one wording.
Reply: read my next article Mary Worship is Crazy!
________________________________________
God tells the truth about mankind:
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.” (Romans 3:10)
“For there is not a just man upon earth, that does good, and does not sin.” (Ecclesiastes 7:20)
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23)
“…For there is no man that sins not….” (1 Kings 8:46)
“All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him [Jesus] the iniquity of us all.” (Isaiah 53:6)
God says that He must punish sin:
“Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4)
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)
God tells the inside story about His remedy for sin:
“Come now, and let us reason together, says the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” (Isaiah 1:18)
“God commends [demonstrates] His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)
“Who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed.” (l Peter 2:24)
“He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit.” (Titus 3:5)
“For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8, 9)
God wants to save you and will save you if you will follow His instructions:
“He who believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he who believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:36)
“And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, and your household.” (Acts 16:31)
“To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whoever believes in Him shall receive remission of sins.” (Acts 10:43)
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
“And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book: but these are written, that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you might have life through His name.” (John 20:30, 31)
God definitely declares that there is only one way to be saved:
“Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.” (John 14:6)
“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)
“Jesus said, I am the resurrection and the life: he that believes in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” (John 11:25, 26)
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” (l Timothy 2:5)
Christ extends to you a personal invitation:
“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me; and he that comes to Me I will in no wise cast out.” (John 6:37)
Now it is up to you. You have the inside story. What are you going to do about it?
Thanks friend
Praise the lord
Amen
Catholics have 3 Scriptural references for an understanding the notion of Purgatory.
I would like to consider refrences from Holy Bible alone as authentic gods word.I’d better not consider or judge on other sources.
Lets see the biblical references you quoted…
(I believe it will be very much like the one/any such experience of such.) The one has been referenced above, by a Catholic Christian brother, I believe.. (Jesus.. speaking some quote of, “You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.â€
“Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.” Mat 5:26
This illustration assumes that you owe your accuser a debt of some kind, and to collect on it he is taking you to small claims court. Jesus is saying: Don’t wait until you get to court to work out some kind of deal; settle out of court. Beware of Judge Judy! Because if the court has to decide the matter, you will be thrown into debtor’s prison and won’t get out until every last cent is paid. Remaining imprisoned until a debt is repaid down to the last penny, elicits a sense of impossibility (cf. Matt 18:34), since the debtor had no chance to work to create funds or raise funds.
The one I believe/understand is the quote from the New Testament, Jesus, I believe, where it talks about the Judgement where your works of “wood, hay and stubble†(as opposed to righteous/noble works (gold, silver, etc.) would be burned up/quenched in the fire (in an/that instant), I believe, and it talks about one would be saved, but only as one escaping through flames basically../(ones clothes smelling like smoke.)
“Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.” 1 Corinthians 3:12-13
God has a design, a field of service planned for each believer. The ‘good works’, which the Christian is to perform, are those which make up ‘that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.’ Our “works” will come under the inspection from Him whose eyes are “as a flame of fire” (Rev. 1:14; 2:18). The Divine Judge who will examine our works is none other than our Lord Jesus Christ. John 5:22 states: “For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.” The judgment seat of Christ will be a time when the true character of our works will be manifested. “To be manifested, in the Scriptural sense of the word, is more than to appear. A person may appear in a false guise or without a disclosure of what he truly is; to be manifested is to be revealed in one’s true character….” The examination of our works will bring to light whether they were good or “bad” (kakos), meaning “worthless.” The true character of our service (1 Cor. 3:13), as well as our motives (1 Cor. 4:5) will be revealed.
What will be the results of this examination? The believer will either receive a reward (1 Cor. 3:8a), or forfeit reward (1 Cor. 3:15). the believer must build on the proper foundation, and others were to build on that foundation, which is Christ (1 Cor. 3:10-11). The believer must also build on that foundation with the proper materials. Two types of builders and two kinds of materials are mentioned. The spiritual believer will build with gold, silver, and precious stones; the worldly believer will build with wood, hay, and stubble (1 Cor. 3:12-15). The gold, silver, and precious stones are a product of creation, while the wood, hay, and stubble are a result of natural growth. The former are the results of the Spirit of God working through the believer’s life, while the latter represent the fleshly works of the old nature. No one builds completely with gold, silver, precious stones, or with wood, hay, and stubble. In this life one’s achievements may seem massive and imposing, yet at the judgment seat they will be revealed for what they are: wood, hay, and stubble. “The day shall declare it” (1 Cor. 3:13).
All works produced through self-confidence, self-conceit, and some other words that begin with the prefix self- (and there are many), will be examined at the judgment seat only to be found wood or stubble.
The Scriptures speak of five crowns that will be awarded the believer whose life has been faithful to the Lord.(1) The Crown of Life or “Martyr’s Crown” – Js. 1:12; Rev. 2:10, (2) The Crown of Glory or “Pastor’s Crown” – 1 Pet. 5:2-4, (3) The Crown of Rejoicing or “Soul Winner’s Crown” – 1 Thess. 2:19, 20; Phil. 4:1, (4) The Crown of Righteousness for those who “love His appearing” – 2 Tim. 4:8, (5) The Incorruptible Crown or “Victor’s Crown” (1 Cor. 9:25-27)
So we might miss out all of them and just be saved from the fire of hell.
The final reference is from an Apocryphal book, [Judith? maybe?] which they have also been referenced here and has to do with some noble King/Leader in Israel, saying prayers for those that had died.
I cannot comment on other books which i cannot take as reference.
SO I DONT SEE ANY PURGORATORY HERE
the one thing I can’t get past was one Monica made about the length of Mary’s power exercising power, even over God. A lot of this must be understand in poetic, literary terms I’m afraid folks (Protestant brothers and sisters)
Brother,
There are many hindu scriptures, which are profoundly well scripted and poetically magnificient and are considered Literary Art form. Shall we accept them as well?
the Catholic [Christian] church believes that all Christians are mystically linked through two of the Sacraments, (marriage), and Baptism..and will be brought together as one again.
This Every christian Agrees.
“For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.For the body is not one member, but many.” – 1 Corinthians 12:12-14
in the one quote Monica made of divine Mother basically..(which would be through the redemptive work of her Son, appropriated to her before the foundation of the world.. (the Immaculate Conception) (a mystery)../also that whole poetic thing going there about the way God worked in her../the New Eve, etc…
Part of this this is un-biblical. (made of divine Mother , appropriated to her , the New Eve.)
p.s. It may be worth noting that God used the Catholic church to “writeâ€/hand down the Bible. I tried/vainly to prove them wrong and, praise the Lord, I am not boasting when I say I know the Bible well. There is../they have a Scripture(Adulterated) for everything/Doctrine they believe, believe it or not!
Once again, in closing, Praise Be the the Lord Jesus Christ! !!!
I do not know the history of how bible has come into existance of current form, so i cannot comment on it.
Dear Cheryl, I will reply to your comments shortly.
HI SELVAKUMAR.S. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR TESTIMONY PLEASE.
GOD BLESS!
Please find my replies….
‘Against the truth they believe?’ No. I believe what I’ve written. As for being ‘like’ a psychology student…well I’m not really sure what to say. I’ve had no formal training beyond highschool and most theological students can run circles around me. All I can say I suppose, is, ‘This is how I write’.
I was trying to say, you are making psychological points of view rather than a biblical points of view.And well every thing you beleive may not be biblical, but still you are able to argue and convince on those points effectively. Dont mind me saying that , with a mixed record as a student, Hitler never advanced beyond a secondary education but successfully led Germany into WWII. I agree and have respect for writing skills you elevate to putforth the views you hold on to.
Well…I don’t know about, ‘They’, but I try to preach Christ in what I do for others. Being disabled, I wish I could do more, but I try to take care of my family and anyone else that needs taking care of.
They in the sense, I meant your argumets. My request was to concentrate on Gospel (Jesus Christ) as taught by the Apostles, not the adulterated version(Mary).
Just need to follow these verses…
This Spirit-inspired presentation of the Gospel (Acts 2: 1-4, 17, 33) was prophesied in the Old Testament (Acts 2: 16-21) and Jesus had promised it would happen. (Acts 1:7-8; also Luke 24:45-49) The message focuses on how people are saved (Acts 2: 21, 40, 47) and answers the question, “What must we do?†(Acts 2: 37; also Acts 16:25-34) It teaches us how we can be forgiven of our sins (Acts 2: 38) and how we receive the Holy Spirit as a gift. (Acts 2: 38-39) This fulfillment of the Great Commission, (Luke 24:46-48; Matthew 28:18-20) tells how people are added to the family of God (Acts 2: 41, 47)
Hmmm. I’m not really sure how to take this. I’m like everyone else here….just trying to offer a ‘reason for the hope that is in me’ (1 Peter 3:15).
The Bible warns us to not be gullible on this matter concerning the preaching of Jesus. Paul warns the Corinthians,”But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.” 2Cor 11:3,4
Judge yourself vigorously in all possible ways before preaching your beliefs in the light of true word of God
Child-like faith is the only kind of faith to have. If you would like to point something out…go ahead. I doubt either of us will change our convictions (as they’re based on something greater-for instance, I won’t go against Catholic teaching). But we can still talk. Ultimately, I don’t feel as if I have to ‘find’ verses to defend what I believe, Church authority is enough for me. All the verses I’ve presented above just came to me as I was writing. I love Scripture! I am thankful to God that as I write, Scripture comes to mind.
As long as we stick to the bible every thing is fine, well and good. But when you depart from this, only then the differences arise and i feel a necessasity to point out those areas. Commiting to Catholic teachings and traditions inolves certain un-biblical acceptances which i have already pointed out in my previous posts with references from Vatican documents. And i already warned that if we choose to stand under those umbrellas(Catholic Authority), one day you need to answer for all those beliefs with rest of them.
That’s very true.
Well then start understanding why people Protested to Catholicism.
Everyone has a reason. It’s just that…well…alot of the things said here about Catholicism are worlds apart from the Catholicism I know.
What you know, is not the world knows about Catholism.There should be some reason dont you think why Protetantism has come forth. When you are trying to subject yourself to such a controvertial Authority, you should be carefull where it will drag you at the end.
No. If you said, ‘Cheryl, something just isn’t right here…but I can’t really put my finger on it.’ I’d try to respect that. We’ve all been there. Some of us (ie, me) never leave :). The most I’d say would probably be something along the lines of, ‘Well, if it comes to you…let me know’.
It has already been pointed out many no of times, by many no of people with proper biblical references.”Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive.”-Matthew 13:14
I do.
Which faith is it? Gift of Faith, Fruit of Faith or Measure of Faith. Or none of these?
I disagree with the whole being an ‘instrument of satan’ thing. Christians can be legitimately wrong about something. None of us are perfect…we all fall short. There’s always room for growth and correction. That’s what I appreciated the most about David’s post above. It’s not about ‘being right’ or ‘winning an argument’. It’s about trying to come to a consensus on the things that really matter, so that you, me, David, Georgy and all Christians can be one Church again-in the full sense of the word.
Anyways, whatever you decided to do (continue this conversation or not), is fine with me. I hope you had a wonderful and blessed Thanksgiving. I thank God for the discussion we’ve had so far. I hope you’ve derived some benefit from it as I have. May God shower you in His blessings. Your sister in Christ.
You are right saying that any christian can be legimately wrong in many no of things, due to various reasons. But being an Instrument of Satan is a different thing.Jesus had chosen Judas Ischariot as one of his disciples, though he foreknew he would deceive him .He was an instrument in the hands of Satan. There is no room for growth or correction in such cases. When your actions are becoming a hindrance to the works of the Lord, then the judgement falls upon you.Should be carefull we not take astray even a single soul.God might forgive you for your own sins and ignorance of word of god in Christ Jesus. But when you take the souls astray from the truth, thats when God tries to warn you by various means.And beleive me there is no PURGATORY to have a 2nd chance.
Thank you And God Bless you.
SELVAKUMAR.S,
read my next article Mary Worship is Crazy!
No thanks. I’ll pass. I can’t deal with sarcastic comments like:
My opinion is you are the first person to get the judgment I think so because u know the rosary better than every one and I think that you can write another scripture like Koran and Mormonism book
BTW, you do know that Mother Therese was a faithful Catholic, that she believed all that the Church taught her.
In God’s grace.
Cheryl
Dear Cheryl,
I was trying to say, you are making psychological points of view rather than a biblical points of view.And well every thing you beleive may not be biblical, but still you are able to argue and convince on those points effectively. Dont mind me saying that , with a mixed record as a student, Hitler never advanced beyond a secondary education but successfully led Germany into WWII. I agree and have respect for writing skills you elevate to putforth the views you hold on to.
Okay.
They in the sense, I meant your argumets. My request was to concentrate on Gospel (Jesus Christ) as taught by the Apostles, not the adulterated version(Mary).
For me, what the Catholic Church teaches is the Gospel as taught by the Apostles. So I guess we’re at an impasse.
Just need to follow these verses…
This Spirit-inspired presentation of the Gospel (Acts 2: 1-4, 17, 33) was prophesied in the Old Testament (Acts 2: 16-21) and Jesus had promised it would happen. (Acts 1:7-8; also Luke 24:45-49) The message focuses on how people are saved (Acts 2: 21, 40, 47) and answers the question, “What must we do?†(Acts 2: 37; also Acts 16:25-34) It teaches us how we can be forgiven of our sins (Acts 2: 38) and how we receive the Holy Spirit as a gift. (Acts 2: 38-39) This fulfillment of the Great Commission, (Luke 24:46-48; Matthew 28:18-20) tells how people are added to the family of God (Acts 2: 41, 47)
While my faith includes all this, it also includes what the Catholic Church teaches me (both in the form of ‘tradition’ and in how to interpret the Bible).
The Bible warns us to not be gullible on this matter concerning the preaching of Jesus. Paul warns the Corinthians,â€But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.†2Cor 11:3,4
Judge yourself vigorously in all possible ways before preaching your beliefs in the light of true word of God
My judgment of myself is this: That I am fallible (and gullible). I can read Scripture and interpret it correctly. I can also read Scripture and interpret it wrongly. The Catholic Church tells me where I go wrong. She protects me from my own gullibility.
As long as we stick to the bible every thing is fine, well and good.
The Catholic Church gave me the Bible. I can’t use her own Scriptures against her.
But when you depart from this, only then the differences arise and i feel a necessasity to point out those areas.
That’s fine.
Commiting to Catholic teachings and traditions inolves certain un-biblical acceptances which i have already pointed out in my previous posts with references from Vatican documents. And i already warned that if we choose to stand under those umbrellas(Catholic Authority), one day you need to answer for all those beliefs with rest of them.
Just as you are not convinced by my arguments, so I am not convinced by yours. Actually, we’re very much alike in that-except we are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
Well then start understanding why people Protested to Catholicism.
I try and to a large extent I do. I wasn’t raised Catholic. I grew up in a very Conservative (almost anti-Catholic) Lutheran Church.
What you know, is not the world knows about Catholism.
What about Catholics themselves? They clearly would not agree with most of the arguments that have been put forth.
There should be some reason dont you think why Protetantism has come forth.
What do you mean, “has come forth”? I’m not familiar with that expression.
When you are trying to subject yourself to such a controvertial Authority, you should be carefull where it will drag you at the end.
Okay.
It has already been pointed out many no of times, by many no of people with proper biblical references.â€Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive.â€-Matthew 13:14
But can you understand that I don’t agree with how those references are being used? I’m not trying to be belligerent, I honestly do not agree with your interpretation of Scripture (and the interpretation of many here).
Which faith is it? Gift of Faith, Fruit of Faith or Measure of Faith. Or none of these?
The faith which comes from childlike trust.
You are right saying that any christian can be legimately wrong in many no of things, due to various reasons. But being an Instrument of Satan is a different thing.Jesus had chosen Judas Ischariot as one of his disciples, though he foreknew he would deceive him .He was an instrument in the hands of Satan. There is no room for growth or correction in such cases. When your actions are becoming a hindrance to the works of the Lord, then the judgement falls upon you.Should be carefull we not take astray even a single soul.God might forgive you for your own sins and ignorance of word of god in Christ Jesus. But when you take the souls astray from the truth, thats when God tries to warn you by various means.And beleive me there is no PURGATORY to have a 2nd chance.
Well, I guess all we can do in such a situation is pray for one another.
Thank you And God Bless you.
And you.
Cheryl
HAI FLOR,
I AM WORKING ON THE TESTIMONY (NAME:HE CAME TO SEE ME ON EARTH)IT IS ON PROGRESS I THINK I WILL POST IT TOMORROW FRIEND.
Praise the Lord,
Amen.
Maybe its your english that makes your replies sound sarcastic and judgemental, am not sure but in any case you should try to be more humble in your replies so no one misunderstands you.. I read all the comments posted here and whether one agrees or not with christians or catholics beliefs we have to respect everyone’s opinion because if we dont, no one here would really be offering good fruit..
It does not really matter how we got there (to Jesus) whether through reading the bible, going to church, praying the rosary etc… The important thing is that we got there. As a catholic i also read the bible everyday just like you do. God speaks to us all through the bible and through people that we meet in our daily lives, even through this website because you always find a verse or expression in the comments that affects you in someway or another.
We have to pray to God to give abundant graces to those who have lost their way and are surrounded by darkness so they find their way to him just like all of us. I am grateful to god that he granted me the grace of faith because without faith we cannot reach out to him. Faith and Love are great companions. They complement each other and we cannot grow spiritually without them. Even the apostles felt the need and asked our lord to give them faith although they were witnesses of daily miracles by him. This teaches us that we cannot cease to pray for faith especially now where evil is practically everywhere.
I dont know what is the story or conversion of each and everyone of you but the important thing is that we were granted with some light in our lives. High winds and huge storms will never cease to leave our lives but now its different because we have someone we can grap to so we dont sink.
To grow strong in faith we have to read the bible yes everyday but we cannot stop there. I can study the bible everyday and dictate it like you all do but its useless if we dont practice it in our daily lives… and i am sure that you all do in one way or the other but i cannot help noticing that some might reflect negativity in their comments. Words can be very powerful and sometimes a mirror to our heart.
All i can say that in my case, yes it was Mary who guided me to Jesus and for that i will be eternally grateful to her. If she loved me and cared for me so much to get to her son, i believe that it was Jesus that permitted her to do so because nothing is done without his consense. As my mother she grapped me by the hand and protected me when i fell just like she used to do with our lord Jesus everytime he fell as a child. I want to love her as much as he loved her and i am sure i will not be judged by our lord in any way for doing that.
Loving the son is like loving his mother and loving the mother is like loving her son.
God bless you all..
Hi Monica,
Loved your comment!!! – Among all the present 100+ comments here, your last one stands out with a special brightness. I can see that it came truly from your heart and from experience. May God bless you more and more in all you do.
Georgy
In light of Monica’s post, I’d like to offer an apology to all, if I came off as rude to SEVAKUMAR.
SEVAKUMAR, I did not mean to cut you off. I still have the scars of being verbally and emotionally attacked for my Catholic beliefs over five years ago. These scars run very deep. Your words came across as hurtful and sarcastic to the point that I didn’t know how to respond to them. If you did not mean for them to be sarcastic, I apologize and ask for an explanation. I just can’t be hurt again…I can’t go back there. Please forgive me if I misunderstood you.
Cheryl
Most of the comments you made i really agree on them. Faith and Love are key elements in a Christian life. Once we come into Christ Holy Spirit starts his Ministry with us, and works with us to change our character into Christ-like. This is when we start showing the fruits of that faith (includes LOVE). If necessary he will take us through a series of experiences working on our imperfections and changing us slowly into the image of Christ.
And you rightly said, he starts speaking to us daily if we are walking with him, every day righteously in his sight. Can we live like that in our Daily Life? No, So Prayer is the key to lead this kind of life. It’s like food for our soul. It helps us fight our daily battles when we start walking with him steadily. We have to nail all our will every day.Thats why our Lord said, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.”-Luke 9:23. So we need to come down to our knees and pray fervently and diligently to remove all our weaknesses that hinder our relashionship with our Lord.
As we mould ourselves into the image of Christ , it is then our Lord will start to execute his plan through us. Now we have become an instrument for our Lord. Now we are far from defending ourselves, but actually started a battle with the enemy. Now we are potential soul winners. What ever we do will be to bring glory to god. Our prayers are now not repetitive, but will be like a powerful weapon in the hands of a warrior. Every word we speak is now attested by the Holy Spirit and instantly moves the Heaven itself.“The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.” James 5:16.
That’s the power of Prayer. Let’s not bring this down to be mere repetitive sentences, which most of them don’t understand and read/speak through their mouths alone (I meant the Rosaries). If the prayer doesn’t come from heart it is useless. What comes from your heart is what you own, not something someone else has spoken/taught to you. Ask for what god puts on your heart. Even if I prayed the prayer of David, it’s not worth for me, becoz it was his song, which the Holy Spirit has put on his heart. God will also put a new song in our mouth as well to praise him if we ask.
My point was, we try very hard to live a righteous life in vain by our self-centeredness, but only through prayer we can break and make anything possible. And the amount of time you spend in prayer will decide the closeness of the relationship with our Lord Jesus.
Dear sister, I really do not know the relationship you have with MARY, but the relationship with Christ is what we should long for. He is our Master. He bought us with his precious blood. He is keeping us like an apple of his eye, and he declared “For he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye”- Zechariah 2:8.
It is not just by chance , but his will that Lord might have directed me to this discussion. I believe that every thing happens for a reason in the life of a true believer. Please share your testimony, how you came to know Jesus, and how you were saved, and how you are rejoicing in the Lord always.
Praise the Lord and God bless you.
We look at men and women (Abraham, Noah, Mary) of the Bible as people God was able to use for HIS will and ultimate Glory. We are ALL given the oppurtunity to be used by God. (And in this life, if I am willing to let God use me, please don’t make a statue of me or call me St. Candra when I die!) They are examples of what GOD can do when you are obedient to HIM. But they weren’t “special” people. They were obedient children.
Since there is nothing in the Bible that explicitly says that Mary mediates for us, it is very difficult to understand why anyone would hold her in such high reverence that we would need to ask her to mediate for us, especially when there are MANY places in scripture that tell us how to pray and who to pray to. Why is it so hard for us Christians to find that one spot that tells us Mary is sitting next to Jesus asking Him to have mercy on us? Where did that come from if it doesn’t come from the Bible?
When we are saved we are all made righteous, justified, and ambassadors for God (Romans 5:17, Titus 3:5-8, 2 Corinthians 5:20.)
The Bible tells us to come boldly to the throne. “So let us come boldly to the throne of our gracious God. There we will receive his mercy, and we will find grace to help us when we need it most.” Hebrews 4:16 Seems a lot easier and more PERSONAL to go God instead of going through like 10 different people.
Plus scripture says Jesus intercedes for us (Romans 8:34), because he knows everything we go through. No need for Mary to help him understand. He already understands and knows our needs.
The Holy Spirit also prays for us. “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.” Romans 8:26
Now people may say “what about the Lord’s prayer”? Mathew 6:9 “This, then, is how you should pray…” Well, Jesus instructs us on HOW to pray, not that we should say the prayer exactly as he did. It is a guide on what to pray for. How many times do we see on TV, football teams nealing in locker rooms reciting the Lord’s prayer before a game? They are just words. God desires a sincere prayer from the heart in our OWN words.
A few quotes from Cheryl:
“My judgment of myself is this: That I am fallible (and gullible). I can read Scripture and interpret it correctly. I can also read Scripture and interpret it wrongly. The Catholic Church tells me where I go wrong. She protects me from my own gullibility.”
To this I answer… “Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge HIM and He will direct your path.” Proverbs 3:5-6 Cheryl, trust God for the Truth. What are you afraid of?
“For me, what the Catholic Church teaches is the Gospel as taught by the Apostles. So I guess we’re at an impasse.”
“While my faith includes all this, it also includes what the Catholic Church teaches me (both in the form of ‘tradition’ and in how to interpret the Bible).”
Cheryl basically said she believes what the Catholic church TELLS her so that she doesn’t get anything wrong. This sounds like there is no room to rely on GOD’S grace to understand the Bible. The Bible says to ask for wisdom and it will be given to you without finding fault (James 1:5). Jesus said he sent the Holy Spirit to help us (John 14:26). And before you read your Bible, you can always pray to God for understanding of the text. And there is nothing wrong with telling God “I don’t understand.” ….
“But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.” 2 Corinthians 12:9
His strength is made perfect in my weakness… And I find myself even closer to HIM when HE reveals his truth to me.
It seems like going to Mary to intercede is just a distraction from being able to tap into the real power of simply talking to God. The prayer of the righteous is powerful.(James 5:16) Amen? I think for most Chistians saying hail Mary sounds ritualistic and not sincere. And this is not all to say that Catholics don’t have a real relationship with God. Christians just don’t understand how you can when there are so many “middle-men.”
One more quote from Cheryl:
“The Catholic Church gave me the Bible. I can’t use her own Scriptures against her.”
Cheryl, the Catholic Church didn’t give you the Bible, God did! And since HE gave you the word why not go straight to HIM to learn what it means? This quote is a little scary too in that it seems as though just because the Catholic Church says or does something, you believe it? The WORD OF GOD existed LONG before the Catholic Church and therefore is the FINAL authority.
And you do have to admit, Cheryl. If the majority of Christians only see that Mary seems to be emphasized in the Catholic Church more so than Jesus… Is it really our fault? : /
Love in Christ,
Candra
Yet even when Catholics quote Scripture in defense of the Catholic Faith, Protestants still disagree. And that’s fine. I’m not saying they have to agree. My only point is, is that no one lives in a vacuum. We all come to Scripture with a personal history (a certain degree of bias), that can very easily affect how we interpret Scripture. That’s why it’s good to interpret Scripture within the context of the Christian Community, ie the Church. Because the Church spans every culture, history, ect., it’s understanding of Scripture and the Faith is not dictated by any one culture, or a single person’s interpretation. We learn to accept a variety of interpretations (Catholicism is a big-tent)and very often come to a consensus.
Since there is nothing in the Bible that explicitly says that Mary mediates for us, it is very difficult to understand why anyone would hold her in such high reverence that we would need to ask her to mediate for us, especially when there are MANY places in scripture that tell us how to pray and who to pray to. Why is it so hard for us Christians to find that one spot that tells us Mary is sitting next to Jesus asking Him to have mercy on us? Where did that come from if it doesn’t come from the Bible?
Just so I understand…are you asking for a particular verse…a prooftext?
When we are saved we are all made righteous, justified, and ambassadors for God (Romans 5:17, Titus 3:5-8, 2 Corinthians 5:20.)
The Bible tells us to come boldly to the throne. “So let us come boldly to the throne of our gracious God. There we will receive his mercy, and we will find grace to help us when we need it most.†Hebrews 4:16 Seems a lot easier and more PERSONAL to go God instead of going through like 10 different people.
It’s not a matter of going through this person, then that person. God is surrounded by His saints and angels, to beseech God, is to do so in the presence of His saints and angels and to beseech His saints and angels, is to do so in the presence of God.
Plus scripture says Jesus intercedes for us (Romans 8:34), because he knows everything we go through. No need for Mary to help him understand. He already understands and knows our needs.
He does. But Mary loves us and love acts. Mary assists us, not because something is lacking in Christ, but simply because it is in the nature of a Christian to be charitable towards others. Jesus loves Mary and He loves us. It was a joy for Him to have Mary for a mother. The fact that Mary is our Mother, is a testament to the overwhelming goodness of Christ that He would want us to share in His joy.
The Holy Spirit also prays for us. “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.†Romans 8:26
Now people may say “what about the Lord’s prayer� Mathew 6:9 “This, then, is how you should pray…†Well, Jesus instructs us on HOW to pray, not that we should say the prayer exactly as he did. It is a guide on what to pray for. How many times do we see on TV, football teams nealing in locker rooms reciting the Lord’s prayer before a game? They are just words. God desires a sincere prayer from the heart in our OWN words.
How strange to hold so fast to Scripture where Mary is concerned and then regard Scripture as ‘just words’ where the Lord’s Prayer is concerned.
A few quotes from Cheryl:
“My judgment of myself is this: That I am fallible (and gullible). I can read Scripture and interpret it correctly. I can also read Scripture and interpret it wrongly. The Catholic Church tells me where I go wrong. She protects me from my own gullibility.â€
To this I answer… “Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge HIM and He will direct your path.†Proverbs 3:5-6 Cheryl, trust God for the Truth. What are you afraid of?
I’m not afraid of anything. I just know my limits. You seem to be assuming that I became Catholic without trusting in God. But nothing could be further from the truth. He very much directed the path I took. It was a rocky path, but He was with me all the way. And while I’m still recovering from things which occured in the past, each day I am getting better. I’m no longer afraid of God like I use to be. I have found Jesus to be kinder and gentler than what I grew up believing. Most of all, I’m slowly learning what it means to truly live by trust and grace alone, to be a child-His child. To know that I don’t have to have it all figured out-that His grace is sufficient and that His love for me is steadfast and nothing I can do will make Him love me less.
“For me, what the Catholic Church teaches is the Gospel as taught by the Apostles. So I guess we’re at an impasse.â€
“While my faith includes all this, it also includes what the Catholic Church teaches me (both in the form of ‘tradition’ and in how to interpret the Bible).â€
Cheryl basically said she believes what the Catholic church TELLS her so that she doesn’t get anything wrong.
No. I get things wrong all the time.
This sounds like there is no room to rely on GOD’S grace to understand the Bible. The Bible says to ask for wisdom and it will be given to you without finding fault (James 1:5). Jesus said he sent the Holy Spirit to help us (John 14:26). And before you read your Bible, you can always pray to God for understanding of the text. And there is nothing wrong with telling God “I don’t understand.†….
“But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.†2 Corinthians 12:9
God’s grace definately comes by the means you mentioned. But it also comes from His Body the Church. It’s not an either/or.
His strength is made perfect in my weakness… And I find myself even closer to HIM when HE reveals his truth to me.
It seems like going to Mary to intercede is just a distraction from being able to tap into the real power of simply talking to God. The prayer of the righteous is powerful.(James 5:16) Amen? I think for most Chistians saying hail Mary sounds ritualistic and not sincere.
It may seem like that…but the reality (for me at least) is far different. I truly believe He gave Mary to us, not to distract us from loving Him, but to bring us into an even deeper intimacy with Him. At least, that has been my experience. Mary is truly a gift of grace-a gift of God. I count her as one of my blessing, for which I am eternally grateful to God for.
And this is not all to say that Catholics don’t have a real relationship with God. Christians just don’t understand how you can when there are so many “middle-men.â€
But they aren’t ‘middle men’. The saints live in Christ and Christ lives and is glorified in them. ‘Middle men’ implies independence, but the saints are not independent of Christ. They are members of His body. I wish I could draw you a picture…sometimes illustrations help.
One more quote from Cheryl:
“The Catholic Church gave me the Bible. I can’t use her own Scriptures against her.â€
Cheryl, the Catholic Church didn’t give you the Bible, God did! And since HE gave you the word why not go straight to HIM to learn what it means? This quote is a little scary too in that it seems as though just because the Catholic Church says or does something, you believe it? The WORD OF GOD existed LONG before the Catholic Church and therefore is the FINAL authority.
The Catholic Church consists of everyone from Adam to the baby just born. The prophets, apostles, ect. are all members of the Catholic Church, from a Catholic perspective (Catholic=universal). These members gave us the Bible (in written form) and others after them have preserved these writings-their writings, down to the present day.
And you do have to admit, Cheryl. If the majority of Christians only see that Mary seems to be emphasized in the Catholic Church more so than Jesus… Is it really our fault? : /
Love in Christ,
Candra
Well, since the majority of Christians worldwide are Catholic, I’d have disagree.
God bless.
HE CAME TO SEE ME ON EARTH
I CAME FROM A HINDU FAMILY MY FATHER IS A HINDU AND MY MOTHER IS A ROMAN CATHOLIC EVEN THOUGH MY SELF AND MY MOTHER USED TO GO TO THE CHURCH AS LIKE WE GO TO THE HINDU TEMPLES.
AND I WORSHIPED ALL THE IDOL THINGS FROM MY CHILDHOOD TO THE AGE OF 19 NOW MY AGE IS 24.WHEN I GO TO HINDU TEMPLE AND THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCHES I DON’T HAVE ANY DIFFERENCE AND EVEN I DON’T KNOW HOW TO READ THE BIBLE OR HOW TO PRAY BECAUSE THERE IS NO ANY SPIRITUAL THOUGHTS OR ANY SALVATION WITH ME AND I DONT KNOW ABOUT THAT.
WHAT EVER IT MAY BE I GAVE MY FIRST PREFERENCE TO THE HINDU IDOL WORSHIP AND I LOVED THEM VERY MUCH BECAUSE THERE IS NO ANY LIMIT & RESTRICTIONS IN THAT EVEN I USED TO DRINK ALCHAHOL BECAUSE OUR HINDU GOD LIKES IT WE USE TO OFFER TO THAT IDOLS ALSO. AND I FRANKLY SAY THAT I DON’T KNOW HOW TO READ THE BIBLE AND WHAT IS THE BIBLE MEANS.
IN OUR ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH THE BROTHER OR FATHER USED GIVE THE MESSAGES BUT THERE WILL BE 10 OR 20% OF THE COULD UNDERSTAND THE MESSAGE WHAT IS HE COMING TO SAY REST OF THE WILL BE SLEEPING INCLUDING ME.
I AM NOT TELLING THIS FOR ALL ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCHES THIS IS MY OWN EXPERIENCE WHICH HAPPENS IN MY CHURCH, AND I GOT MY BAPTSIM AT THE AGE OF 1 AND I DONT KNOW WHO IS JESUS AND WHAT IS SALVATION AND WHAT IS THIS FOR BUT I GOT THE BAPTISM.
AND I WORSHIPED MARY THE MOTHER OF JESUS I KNOW THE ROSARY ALSO, BUT MY FAITH IS ONLY 0 AND NOTHING. AT THE AGE OF 46 MY WAS EXPIRED MY SELF, TWO YOUNGER SISTER AND MY MOTHER WAS LEFT ALONE I AM NOT WELL EDUCATED LIKE YOU PEOPLES WRITE ENGLISH AND TO SPEAK IT FREQUENTLY.
FOR 1 YEAR AFTER MY FATHERS DEATH I DIDN’T WORSHIP ANY GOD I WAS VERY ANGER WITH THEM TO, FOR THAT REASON.
BY THAT TIME MY UNCLE TRIED TO TEACH ME ABOUT THE BIBLE AND WHO IS JESUS WHAT IS SALVATION, WHY THE HUMAN BEINGS ARE CURSED ,WHO CAME TO WORLD TO SAVE US AND WHY ALL THE MANKIND’S ARE DYING, HOW SHOULD WE PRAY? WHY SHOULD WE PRAY? WHAT IS THE END? WHO IS GOING TO COME? WHAT WILL BE HAPPEN IN THE HELL? BUT I DIDN’T BELIEVE HIS WORDS BLINDLY I ARGUED WITH HIM LOT BUT POLITELY HE ANSWERED FOR MY QUESTIONS THIS WAS HAPPENED AROUND THE TIME WHEN MY UNCLE STARTED TO SPEAK WITH ME.
EVEN THOUGH I HAD THE BAD HABITS WITH ME. BUT WHEN I STARTED TO READ THE BIBLE I BEGAN TO AFRAID ABOUT THE LORD JESUS AND HIS WORDS IN MY HEART , I HAD LOTS OF BAD FRIENDS SLOWLY I STARTED TO LEAVE THEM AND MY BAD HABITS ALSO IT TAKES ME 1 YEAR TO COME FROM ALL THE PREVIOUS SINS WHAT I HAVE DONE.
BELIVE IT OR NOT I DONT HAVE ANY BAD HABITS AND BAD FRIENDS. I STARTED TO READ THE BIBLE DAILY AND GOT BAPTISED IN A NLAG CHURCH – CHENNAI.
I USED TO PRAY WITH MY FAMILY DAILY AT NIGHT.
I USED TO READ THE BIBLE DAILY.
I USED TO SHARE THE SALVATION TO MY FRIEND WHOEVER I SPEAK WITH THEM.
I USED TO DO THE WEEKLY MAGAZINE ABOUT BIBLE.
I USED TO SING CHRISTIAN SONGS NOW INSTEAD OF SINGING CINE SONGS.
I JUST ASKED MY UNCLE HOW TO PRAY TO GOD? HE SHOWED ME THE VERSE- Matthew 6: 5-13.
THAT’S IT .NONE OTHER PRAYERS. I THINK THAT NOW YOU CAN UNDERSTAND MY WORDS AND MY SHORT TESTIMONY. IF THERE IS ANY MISTAKE WITH ME PLEASE FORGIVE ME FRIENDS.
THIS IS MY LAST POST FOR THIS WEBSITE AND I AM QUITING MY SELF FROM THIS ARGUMENTS BECAUSE I AM NOT HUMBLE AS LIKE YOU FRIENDS.
I DON’T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN MY FAITH AND TO SHARE IT LIKE YOU ALL, BY THE WORDS.
THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTS AND REPLY WHAT YOU HAVE SENT SO FAR FRIENDS.
BUT AT LAST I WANT TO TELL YOU SOME THING FRIENDS THAT IF YOU SAY THE ROSARY TO MARY OR ANY SAINTS OR DESIPLES IT LEADS TO THE MISUNDERSTANDING TO YOUR FUTURE GENERATIONS AND UN EDUCATED PEOPLES THEY DOSENT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND THERE WILL BE NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND THE IDOL WORSHIPERS.
HERE AFTER THERE WILL NOT BE ANY HURTS FROM MY SIDE FRIENDS.
THANKS FRIENDS BYE
PRAISE THE LORD
AMEN.
Jesus told us clearly who can pray with/for us. He said in Matthew 18:19, “Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven”
Notice the important clause “on earth.” The people who pray together must be on earth.
This definitely rules out all those who have left this earth (Mary and Saints).
yes i would like to share how i met my lord Jesus..I cannot actually say that i met Jesus by looking for him in a particular place. Instead it was him who spread out his leg while i was passing by and i rolled over it, falling very heavy facing down.
These testimonies are important to hear because they recharge your soul, to want and grow more in spirituality but today i want to start with something different.. I want to do something nice out there today.. and instead i will give my testimony of how i could have helped out someone else in need..
Hope i will get back to you all with some fruit :)
God bless
Dear Selvakumar,
i would like to let you know that your testimony moved me a lot… we all have to learn a lot from you and your testimony was important for all of us to understand you more.
May god continue to send his blessings on you and all your family. Hoping to see more of you on this website :)
Merry Christmas my friend :)
Thanks Monica may Jesus bless you and your family and keep the everlasting peace upon your family and all our friends.
bye,bye
Praise The Lord,
Amen.
Even though I would love to respond to the points you’ve made, I already know that it would be in vain because we would probably go back and for for days. I came to this site because I was curious about Confession and then curious about why Catholics say “Hail Mary.” I want to learn why other people believe what they believe. In looking at other beliefs I can stand more firm in what I believe. I personally don’t see a reason why Mary is held in such high esteem, because for me it makes Jesus sound secondary. My focus and attention are on God and Christ alone and I don’t need to say a “sacred prayer” to tap into the power and grace that God freely gives.
(The Lord’s Prayer is just words if you don’t understand what it means and only say it because you can recite it. That is what I mean by “just words.” You have to have an understanding of what you’re saying and your heart has to be in it. Otherwise, why say it? Which people do say it with out thinking. So it is better to say a prayer in your own words out of sincerity and not just reciting something. That’s all I meant.)
I looked up why former Catholics have turned away from the Catholic Church, and their reasons are all the same. “The Catholic Church contradicts the Bible.” Not MY words, THEIR words. One woman made sure to state that the church had never harmed her or there wasn’t an incident that caused her to leave, it was simply because she started seeing that something wasn’t adding up and she began to go deeper into God’s word and saw that the Catholic Church contradicts what the Bible teaches. I have a college friend who used to be Catholic, though you would have never known she was a Christian from her lifestyle. While in school, she started going to Bible studies with me and that’s when her heart began to change and her eyes were opened. She said she felt like she had been cheated out of so much and that everything she had been taught was a lie. Now she is a Born Again Christian and her life has done a complete 180. It surprises me sometimes to see the change in her. I know God did that. Having a close friend who is a former Catholic makes me question a lot of things that you believe. Is that understandable?
I will finish with this. I am happy that I found this conversation, because it has drawn me closer to God. I am thankful to be in the truth. I am thankful that I can go boldly to God’s throne all on my own and He will accept me as I am. I am thankful that I can be in the presence of God’s love and grace anytime, day or night. I am thankful that Jesus and the Holy Spirit intercede for me. I am thankful that even when I have questions about my faith, God will lead me to the truth and give me peace. I am thankful that someone stumbling across this site who does not know Jesus will see my post and go deeper into God’s word for themselves and that God will reveal Himself to them. If only just one, I am thankful.
Cheryl, if anything I hope we can agree on this…We are all on different paths according to God’s will. If it is His will for you to be Catholic, then I can not object. I instead will choose to rejoice that He will draw other’s closer to Him through His word. Those who come away from the Catholic Church are meant to come away. Those who are meant to stay, will stay. Not my will, but God’s will be done… Amen
Thank you very much SELVAKUMAR.S, remember this: being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Philippians 1:6
Please no one feels offend with the God´s word, The bible says:
John 6: 60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?â€
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.
64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.†For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.
65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.â€
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?†Jesus asked the Twelve.
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. <>
69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.â€
Vijay:
its true there are not a second chance the bible says: Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment. Hebrews 9:27
I am very glad that you came to know Jesus and will pray that you come to know Him more intimately as the days go by.
I too will probably bow out of the conversation (family issues are taking up too much of my time and brain-power :)).
I’m sorry if I made you feel like you’re not welcome here (it’s not even my website! lol). I think Georgy would agree-you’ll always be a welcomed guest here. I wish there weren’t so many road-blocks between us, but like Monica said, we agree on the most important thing-Jesus.
P.S. Your English may not be great, but at least you can write a little. I’ve never learned your language and couldn’t write it at all! So there, you have one up on me…so don’t feel bad. Since it’s Georgy’s blog anyways, I and other Americans/English are the odd men out :). Just think in heaven, we’ll understand each other perfectly and will have all of eternity to sing God’s praises TOGETHER!
Pray for me and know that I’ll be praying for you.
God bless you SELVAKUMAR…God bless you.
*Big Bear Hug*
Cheryl
One last thing… for the curious…
http://www.catholic2christian.com
Provides a well written testimony of how a man who was Catholic for 40 years sought out the truth for himself.
Testing your faith against other beliefs can only make it stronger. If you are living in the truth, what do you have to lose?
God Bless
Why should we particularly honor Mary alone? And do you mean to say Jesus will ask every beleiver why they did not honor her earthly mother. Did some one tell you this, or did you assume this kind of Question. Or is it written in bible some where , that jesus would ask like this?
And i dont think, any one when he comes in presence of Lord will get such a question.Even assuming he gets such a question, they might not answer in such a way. There will be no option of arguing a case.Even assuming that some beleiver tried to argue,The most probable answer could be , ‘Lord you never said to particularly honor or pray to Mary, neither did your Apostles.’.
If you think Jesus or Apostles have said anything like this in the bible, please tell me the bible references. Lets talk on that and understand the truth/scripture.
thank you and god bless.
And addtion to that i dont think , we beleivers have to worry about Great White Throne. Thats for Non-Beleivers of Christ alone.
Happy Christmas!
Dear friends, I have read somewhere that who don’t give due respect to Mary will however enter into heaven (as they believe in Lord Jesus) but will never see her.
As a catholic i think it is true, and it must be.
I do accept that praying to Mary is very helpful.
The questions about WORSHIPPING and HONORING her as a goddess are just meaningless.
Happy Christmas!
Dear friends, I have read somewhere that who don’t give due respect to Mary will however enter into heaven (as they believe in Lord Jesus) but will never see her.
As a catholic i think it is true, and it must be.
Why must it be? On the contrary, everyone’s sins and errors will be cleansed away by the ‘time’ they enter heaven.
I do accept that praying to Mary is very helpful.
It is and that’s something I think gets missed all too often in these sorts of theological debates. One side can cite such and such verse and another side can cite a different verse (each in an attempt to prove their point and fidelity to Scripture), but at the end of the day, it really only comes down to one question, “How do I relate to God?” I heard an old addage once that has really stuck with me, “We do not believe in Jesus because we believe that the Bible is true; Rather, we believe that the Bible is true because we believe in Jesus”.
The questions about WORSHIPPING and HONORING her as a goddess are just meaningless.
Ya know, I was just thinking the other day that some here should have watched AVATAR with me. It took me three whole days to be able to spit out the words, ‘The All Mother’ (in the movie, she was the people’s ‘goddess’) and even now I can’t say it without feeling queezy. Granted I think some people, for whatever reason, feel as if they need a ‘goddess’, but these people are found in all sorts of denominations not just Roman Catholicism. As for me, I cringe at the idea of Mary being some sort of goddess, because then she wouldn’t be Mary and it’s Mary I love.
Merry Christmas to you too!
Just food for your thought..
The Roman Catholic “Ten” Commandments are actually only nine. They deleted the Second Commandment–the one that says not to create an image and bow down to it, and then they split the Tenth, no doubt hoping that no one would notice. You (and millions of others) didn’t. If you don’t believe me, study the Vatican website for yourself:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm
Just make a comparison of these Ten Commandments with authentic scriptural versions like a KJV Bible.
Just Dont miss this:
15 – Jesus said to them, Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
16 – Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Like christians we respect your personal religion, but we do not have a religion just we are followers of Christ we respect and we love Virgin Mary, but we do not create images to adore them. Like you said Vijay, God bless all!!
I believe Mother Mary is a gift to the world. She’s a very powerful lady.
Catholics pray to the Virgin Mary. Protestants don’t. Who’s right? Both, of course! The most important fact here is that we’re all Christians and we all love Our Lord Jesus Christ! :)
Catholics don’t create images to adore them. I love Jesus and looking at an image of him brings me peace and joy. It’s like having a photo of a loved one. It’s that simple. I have a beautiful image of Jesus in my bedroom and his blessed face is the first thing I see when I wake up in the morning. It fills my heart with joy and I start my day feeling blessed.
The same goes to Our Lady Mary. She’s the blessed mother of Jesus and she deserves our respect. I pray to her too. She’s a living presence in my life.
I think we should pray in a way that comforts us and gives us spiritual strength. If prayers to Our Lady Mary does it for you, do it. If you think you should only pray to Our Lord Jesus, that’s right too. If it’s the rosary that you believe in, go for it.
After all, we’re only human and God understands our doubts and mistakes much better than we do ourselves. He truly knows us as He is our Father.
May the Love of Jesus be with you all! :) God bless!
Jesus said ” I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE” No one comes to the Father except through me.
( *****JESUS DID NOT SAY “MARY IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND LIFE************)
John 19:26-27
Jesus saw his own mother, and the disciple standing near whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold your son”. Then he said to the disciple, “Behold your mother”. If you notice this passage more closely, here Jesus refers to Mary as “WOMAN”.
Why did Jesus call her a “WOMAN” and not “MOTHER”? That’s because Jesus is the SON of GOD. And HE belongs to GOD Alone.
God has chosen Mary as she was faithful like Abraham, Noah, Jacob, Moses were faithful to GOD. Since God had to come into this world in the form of a flesh, he chose a righteous and faithful women.
1 John 5
Faith in the Incarnate Son of God
1.Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is BORN OF GOD, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
2. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify:
8 the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
9 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.
10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
So My Dear Brothers and Sisters, Please believe GOD’s testimony. Whoever accepts God’s testimony and believes in the SON OF GOD, will have an eternal life and this life is in HIS son JESUS CHRIST.
MAY GOD GIVE YOU THE SPIRIT OF DECERNMENT to understand the truth
GOD BLESS YOU
@ Selvakumar – Your testimony was heart touching. May GOD BLESS YOU.
@ Monica – throughout the comments, your text seem to be like a blind protocol. You are only concentrating on the intercession and the Rosary but not the word of GOD.
Please read the whole chapter of 1 JOHN in bible as a meditation everyday instead of Rosary. By reading 1 JOHN completely would change your thoughts and your life.
May GOD speak to you.
Bible is the only truth, Whatever is spoken outside the bible is not truth not a single word.
GOD BLESS YOU AND GIVE YOU THE UNDERSTANDING TO KNOW THE TRUE AND LIVING GOD BUT NOT THE MAN MADE text.
Kind regards
PRIYA
Dear Ana Paula Sampaio,
No one has ever seen God. The pictures of Jesus are the imaginary paintings painted by the painters. So do not worship the picture but worship the true GOD. Worshiping the painting becomes an idol worship
(John 1:18) –
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him know
@Priya,
i read the bible and say the rosary everyday and THAT changed my life… I concentrate on the word of God both when i am reading the bible alone and in church. i have a mixture of both and that gives me peace. You might not be of the same opinion and that is ok with me. The rosary is not man made but you wouldnt understand anyway because you simply do not believe full stop. Funnily enough, even your text sounds like a blind protocol to me… at ease soldier of christ.. :) Merry Christmas
Hi Priya, Good to know that you speak according to the God´s word, I believe in God´s word, nothing else.
2. Open to the book of Hebrews
3. Read the book of Hebrews
The book starts this way and continues:
The Supremacy of God’s Son
“Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.”
(Hebrews 1:1-4 ESV)
What is a priest?
-A priest is one who brings the our sins and requests before God
-A priest is anointed and chosen by God
Sacrifices
Let’s just focus on the book of Hebrews for a moment. The Jews for centuries needed some sort of physical way for them to become right before God. You see it throughout the Old Testament. These Hebrews would have to find both blood and grain sacrifices to make atonement for their sins.
A common mode of sacrifice was a spotless and perfect lamb. They had to be perfect. If they were imperfect, the sacrifice would lose it’s meaning. This has roots in even the first passover.
Jesus is described as the Lamb of God. When He died on that Cross 2000 years ago, He was that perfect sacrifice. He died once for all. He is continually making intercession for all of us.
Hebrews 7:25 “He is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.”
Mary simply gave birth to the Lamb of God. Was Mary perfect? No. How can I say this? I will tell you, with Mary’s own words in Scripture, in the Magnificat.
Luke 1:45-47 “And Mary said,
‘My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.'”
‘My Savior,’ huh? Why would she need saving if she was perfect? Why would she need a savior, if she didn’t need saving? If she has such control over her Son, why can’t she command herself into heaven?
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
So, logically, if she is not perfect, she has sinned, and if she has sinned, she has fallen short of the glory of God, and so vis a vis, when someone prays to the Virgin Mary, he is praying to someone who has sinned, who does not have the glory of God. It is man-worship, and idolatry.
“No one comes to the Father but through Jesus Christ”
The Trinity is Perfect and Ordained and is worthy of worship.
Study Olde Roman Pagan Mythology, and compare the “Saints” to all the different gods the Romans had. I can guarantee you, for every Saint, you’ll be able to find the Roman god resemblance. The Romans prayed to different gods depending on their need. True, when people pray to the saints, they don’t claim that saint is the One True God. The Roman Pagans didn’t either.
In the early church, there were many new converts in the Roman Empire that were quite confused between a Roman belief system, and a Christian system of salvation. It was hard for them to believe that the only way to God was through a dead and resurrected Son of Man. To deny that Jesus can hear and answer all of our prayers is a denial of the very Divinity of Jesus Himself. If we can talk to Jesus Himself in prayer, why turn to Mary?
Such a sad history the catholic church has..
People say we Bible-thumpers are Protestants. We only Protest against the idea that God can only speak to us through Holy Tradition. God has given us The Holy Word. It has everything we will ever need. To say that anything more has just as much authority is warned about in Scripture.
Revelation 22:18-19 “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”
and just before those words are words of encouragement
Revelation 22:17 “The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.†And let the one who hears say, “Come.†And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires, take the water of life without price.”
Soli Deo Gloria!
@ Flor – Thanks and yes all of us should speak only from the Bible(WORD of GOD) and nothing of our own knowledge and understanding.
@ Monica – Jesus did not teach Mixture of both. I just spoke what the word of GOD says in the Bible.May Yeshua Bless you and open the eyes of your heart.
Cheers.
Priya
@ Josiah – That’s a wonderful clarification. Appreciate it.
i think the terminology is behind all these confusions.
i was never told in my catechism classes that there would be any mediator or intercessor between God and humankind other than Lord Jesus Christ.
we were suggested to pray to Virgin Mary and saints so that our prayer would be more effective.
Josiah(comment no. 144) Mary was a sinner.——
she says that God is her savior because God saved her from the Original Sin.she was without original sin before and after her birth.(of course this is not written in the Bible,but i ask you where is it written in the Bible that Mary sinned, or she was not perfect?)
revelation22:18-19 i warn…………..
i have a catholic bible which is same as the Bible protestants read.(New Testament) i have never read any word or passage which is added by catholic church. thank God….:-)
God is going to judge us according to our own words. so we should be careful to criticise any truth. if God Himself gives honor to Virgin Mary then we are against God if we say such things against Mary.
in your responses to my comment..:)
“i was never told in my catechism classes that there would be any mediator or intercessor between God and humankind other than Lord Jesus Christ.”
VERY GOOD, our catechism states the exact same thing. That is taken from “For there is but one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). but my question to you, and to every catholic, is about what you said in followup,
“we were suggested to pray to Virgin Mary and saints so that our prayer would be more effective.”
If a mediator(intercessor) is someone that stands between two parties(us and God), and there is “one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,” then it’s really like this, it’s quite simple:
GOD
||
JESUS as Mediator (Holy Spirit)
||
MAN
Instead the Catholic church does this:
GOD
||
Jesus as Mediator (Holy Spirit)
||
Virgin Mary and other Saints
||
MAN
“||” – denotes prayers
*On the above Catholic diagram, it should be noted that not all prayers made by a Catholic are made to the Virgin Mary and other Saints, but you can also pray to God and Jesus. It is put in here to show that indeed these Saints are on a lower standing than Christ Jesus, yet raised above other MEN who are apparently not perfect.
BUT WAIT! didn’t we just read that there is but one mediator between God and man??? 1 Timothy 2:5 does NOT read “but there is but one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, His most Blessed Mother, and some other Saints who haven’t been born yet, but they will be quite Holy as well.”
Why must we to pray to Mary and the Saints?
-You said that it is so that our prayers would be more effective. Where can one reach such a conclusion? Are our prayers less effective if we don’t go through the saints? Is our Creator (both God and Jesus were our Creator) really that reluctant from hearing our prayers that He would more willing hear prayers through His creatures(Mary and the Saints were indeed created) from less holy creatures(us)?
-Where in Scripture has Jesus claimed that he can only be reached through His disciples? (his disciples(followers) have all mostly been named “Saints”) These disciples were not sent in the Great Commission to gain followers for themselves. They were not sent to form churches under their name. They were only meant to multiply. To say that any one of these disciples were the greatest would be meaningless, if discipling is all about copying themselves in others of their Love and intent on Following Christ, then rank, status, or reverence would have no place. Mary was one of Christ’s humble disciples, she was very blessed and fortunate to have such an opportunity to be the mother of the Savior of all mankind. So were Jesus’ disciples blessed for Jesus to call them to follow and obey Him, just as Mary was called to follow and obey God in giving birth to the Christ. But are we not all called to follow and obey Christ? Are we not all blessed with the opportunity of pursuing a life of making disciples, starting churches, bringing children up in a Christian home, and following the will of God?
-If there is no statement in Scripture saying Mary had sinned, where does it say she never sinned? Being “blessed” or “righteous” really does not say anything about never sinning, that title was given many people in the Bible, not only mary, and not to the disciples about never sinning. I have further proof of this that you cannot argue:
Death is the result of sin. There is no questioning it. Adam and Eve never would have died or had pain if they had not sinned in the Garden of Eden. Sin causes a debt. Debts need to be paid. Jesus had no debt, because He never sinned, but He paid the debt that He didn’t owe. That is the reason He died. Think about it long and hard. If Mary had no original sin, and lived a completely perfect life free from sin,
WHY DID MARY DIE?
requote:
”
she says that God is her savior because God saved her from the Original Sin.she was without original sin before and after her birth.(of course this is not written in the Bible,but i ask you where is it written in the Bible that Mary sinned, or she was not perfect?)
”
also your second response:
”
revelation22:18-19 i warn…………..
i have a catholic bible which is same as the Bible protestants read.(New Testament) i have never read any word or passage which is added by catholic church. thank God….:-)
”
I’m so glad you mentioned this! I was not meaning to imply that the Catholic church has added or removed anything from the Bible in it’s content. That was not my intent in bringing up this Scripture! Even though our Canons are different I can appreciate the Apocrypha!) In fact I own a Catholic bible and I find that the Apocrypha is a very interesting addition. The question of Canons is irrelevant to what we’re talking about. The issue at hand is:
Where Truth comes from.
All Truth comes from God, and that Truth is laid out in Scripture. Scripture is complete, and if, say we discover more documents like the Dead Sea Scrolls, and if more of those scrolls were written by Apostles who were with Jesus and do not contradict what Jesus has told us already, and are legitament must logically be agreed on as truth. BUT when a teaching comes out that contradicts what Jesus has said already in statements like “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”(John 14:6)
Dogma in the Catholic church is not always entirely Scriptural. Look at the one who instates the Dogma, the Pope. Where in the Bible does it say we need a someone other than God to tell us what to believe? Is the pope perfect and holy? Does the pope die due to sin, or does he die for the sins of all man as Jesus did? wow, there must’ve been a lot of “Christs” by now if the popes all die for the sins of others. The adding of “dogma” or “teaching” shouldn’t happen unless it comes from God, and if it comes from God, it will not contradict what God has already said.
So on the issue of Mary being without original sin, or any sin whatsoever, the Catholic Church had to address it, so they came up with the Idea of “Immaculate Conception.” The Immaculate Conception was solemnly defined as a dogma by Pope Pius IX in his constitution “Ineffabilis Deus” on 8 December 1854. It wasn’t official dogma until then.
ugh I could type more on this but I am weary…
Please respond! I would love to hear what your thoughts are on all this! I’m always up for hearing both sides.. :)
soli Deo gloria
Romans 3:23 (New International Version, ©2010)
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
This should answer your question…
non-catholics never criticized Mary. Non catholics respect Mary as God’s favor was on her for her righteousness and goodness. she was God’s chosen lady. But not God.
Merry Christmas,Happy New Year 2011
@Joshua,
brother, i read your logical statements, i found myself numbed as what to say in answer.
but
i got the answer in an amasing way.
i read your comment and was thinking what to write. i dont have vast knowlege about scripture and the history of church(founded by Christ).so i thought to keep quite…let them debate……. then suddenly i took my Daily Readings book(catholic calender) and opened today’s reading…and there my answer was!!!! usually i am not a daily-bible-reader. i read Bible when my heart says to.
so….
today’s reading is taken from..
Numbers 6:22-27
Galetians 4:4-7
Luke2:16-21
(today we celebrate the Feast of Mary Mother of God. so i wish you all happy feast.)
ok, now i read what God says..Numbers6:22-27—
“the LORD spoke to Moses, saying:Speak to Aaron and his sons, saying,Thus you shall bless the Israelites:You shall say to them,
The LORD bless you and keep you
The LORD make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you;
the LORD lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.
So they shall put my name on the Israelites, and I will bless them.”
bro, my answer is in the last sentense.
Mother Mary and Saints will pray for us, and God will bless us.
i am not going to say anything more about Intercession. that’s all.
the question of Mary being Immaculate.
i dont know..this is my faith and i will never argue for it.
@Priya
“all have sinned….”
yes all have sinned. but who will argue if God’s grace kept Virgin Mary always sinless? “has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one object for SPECIAL use and another for ordinary use? –Romans9:21”
@priya
@all
I love talking about spiritual things. I’ve spent the last 5 years in a Bible school studying nothing but the Bible, discerning Truth and non-Truth. I love God with my whole heart,and my love causes me to be passionate about the Truths that God says in Scripture. All of the Word of God is Absolute Truth. The Bible is full of absolutes that can either comfort us or condemn us. “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”(John 14:6) The very statement of Christ saying that He is the ONLY WAY to the Father is implicit in saying that He absolutely was, absolutely is, and absolutely always will be the only way. To add any parameters, qualifications, or limitations on that declaration by Christ would diminish every other promise He had made. That is all.
Soli Deo Gloria