Why should we pray to Virgin Mary? The reasons are many.
Why do Catholics pray to Mother Mary? Is Rosary really powerful?
The intercession of Mother Mary is very powerful as Jesus cannot neglect His mothers commands.This can be proved by the first miracle Jesus did at the wedding at Cana. – (John 2:1-11). Mother Mary told Jesus “They have no more wine.” And what was the final result? He turned water into wine.
In “The Poem of the Man-God” by Maria Valtorta, she says that Jesus told her about this incident as “I did it for Mary”. This proves that the intercession of Mother Mary is very very strong.
Mother Mary was blessed with Holy Spirit abundantly. We can see this as we read “At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” (Luke 1:39-41) ; just by Virgin Mary’s greeting.
Listen to the talk from Apologetics on Mary, Purgatory and The Bible
What the angels thought on this matter:-
When angel appeared before Zechariah,father of John, angel just greets him by his name ,nothing more although he was “upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commandments and regulations blamelessly.” – (Luke 1:6)
When angel appeared before Joseph, the greeting was like this: “an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” – (Matthew 1:20). Angel greeted him ‘son of david’, thats all.
Now let us see how did the angel greet Virgin Mary. It goes like this: “The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” (Luke 1:28). See the difference….
Also read the article Mary, The Mystical Rose
As I have noticed, you all clearly can’t agree upon everything, but that’s why there are many different religions. Obviously, you all are stuck to your own religion and refuse to change your mindset so there’s no point in trying to convert the other. Eventually everyone will understand. So please stop arguing; this is not what God wants for any religion. Anyone can love God and worship him, but people will worship him in their different ways… there’s not much we can do to change that. I respect any religion that truely tries to love God.
God wants us to have the Holy Spirit with us at all times. This arguing [and even reading these converstations] makes the Spirit leave right away.I don’t want to argue. All I would like is one sincere, kind, concice reason. Thank you for your understanding.
One dark principality is very happy at see all the so called faithful people of God fighting with each other, and caught in a power struggle. Oh Yes “satan” is sure winning in divinding the faithful people of God. United we stand, Divided we fall. we all are losers. The Holy Spirit is the spouse of Mother Mary. The same Holy Spirit who leads and guides and directs us and empowers us. All this power struggle is not from the Holy Spirit, Its from the evil one. Hate has consumed you’ll, Can’t you’ll see. If the people of God are busy pulling down each other, how are are going to Evanglise the people who do not believe in God and those who have not heard about him. Our mission as Christains has failed! to spread the Good News that God loves us. Stop throwing stones at each other and use your Holy wisdom that God has blessed you with wisely, to spread the kingdom of God. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life. Even our muslim brothers believe that we should only pray to God our Father, and we should not pray to Jesus as our mediator between the Father and his people, for that would breach the 1st commandment, but we know differently, because we are the faithful filled with the Holy Spirit, we know that Jesus is the saviour of the world, He is the promise of the father, and no matter what our muslim brothers say, its not going to stop us from praying to Jesus to interceed for us to the father, for that is what he does, he too interceeds for all of us to the father. and that’s what Mother Mary does, she interceeds for all of us. The Catholic Church is all about the Holy Eucharist – Where Jesus is truly present body and blood, soul and Divinity. where Jesus is adored and glorified and worshipped. The bible says if you don’t eat the flesh of Jesus the sacrificial lamb – you have no life in you. Fot its the body and blood of Jesus Christ brings us to Eternal Life. God Bless you all!
This article is about mama mary, the mother of God. Elijah did not die on the cross for the sins of mankind, it was Jesus, that died on the cross, rose from the end and is seated on the right hand of the Almighty Father. It is He who will judge the living and the dead on Judgement day. For all power both in this world and the underground is given to him by the Heavenly Father, Every nation will bow, every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, all Jews, Chirstains, muslims, believers, non believers will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. That does not mean that Christains don’t adore God the Father, Christains believe in the Holy Trinity, Jesus said, if you have seen the son, you have seen the father, for the father lives in me and I live in the Father. When we worship Jesus we also worship God the FAther, for God the Father said, no one can come to me, but through the Son, the sacrificial Lamb. No blood of any animal will please the Father. Jesus Emmanual God with us is the living Sacrifice, only his blood will clean and wash away the sins of all mankind. He has purchased us by his precious blood & sacrifing death. Don’t be afraid to get to know Jesus. When you get to know him, you will never want to be separated from him. He is the best friend, brother, saviour one can have. he touch my life many years ago, and transform my life forever. He is the treasure of my life.
Praise you Jesus forever!
‘..Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox..you all belong to Me…'( from tlig.org )
The Lord reminded me of this Message the other morning. The Lord wants us to accept one another as we are.
‘..you all belong to My House, since I have bought My House with My Own Blood and I have shed every drop of My Blood for everyone…you are My House…'(tlig)
What about our differences ?
I will give you an analogy which comes from my profession as a maths teacher/lecturer.
I taught in schools and colleges. In my mixed ability classes, there would groups of pupils who are never late, polite and do their work quietly. If one of them needs help, he would turn to his neighbour and ask. If the neighbour does not know, she would ask her neighbour. If she does not know, she would raise her hand for my help.
Then theres another group. Noisy, they would say’ good morning sir’ as soon as they enter the room.
If one of them is ‘stuck’, a hand would shoot up in the air to attract my attention. Once they know the methods to the solutions, they would share their knowledge / skills with their neighbours.
Sometime they would argue with others about their methods. Then I would often hear:
‘…Sir told me…’ to justify their stance.
Sometime in the heat of the debate they would ‘fire’ a question at me without raising their hands – but they would always end their question with ‘sir’.
One thing you will never hear in my class is for a pupil to berate another as ‘stupid’ or ‘thicko’ or any derogatory terms.
While they are in my class, I am their father and mother – in loco parentis. I never allow such abuse.
This analogy is very apt in the relationship between us, as christians. Just as I didn’t allow abuse in my class, do you think the Lord is happy that we cast aspersions at one another – or, abuse one another ?
No. Ofcourse not.
Which group of pupils do you belong to ?
I know who the noisy ones are. They are the protestants – they go boldly before the Lord, but never ever forgotten that the Lord is ‘holy’.
Great miracles take place in their healing services because they invoke the power of the Holy Spirit – miracles that Science cannot explain.
When the Lord took me out of the wilderness on 9.11.05, and led me to the Catholic Church, I was worried because I am a baptised Methodist, until He showed me why.
What is lacking in the protestant churches is the acceptance of the Perpetual Sacrifice
(the Eucharist) in its fullest sense – Transubstantiation. When Jesus says, unless you eat the Body and drink the Blood of the Son of Man, there will be no life in you – or you will not have eternal life, He means it both literally, and spiritually.
The physical and the spiritual are bound together as ONE – they are inseparable. Jesus was both physical and spiritual (divine.)If you try to separate them, as protestants do in the Holy Communion, you go against a major part of Jesus’s mission – i.e. our deification.
Matt 16.19, is repeated in Matt 18.18 to remind us that whatever we bind on earth will be bound in Heaven. Its quite clear. Why or why did the protestant founders deviate from this when it was binding on earth for over a millennium ?
Althanasius realised this when he went against Arius and his cohorts.
I can just imagine the little Alexandrian priest tearing his hair out when he heard the followers of Arius singing: ‘..There was a time when the Son was not…’
The second major weakness among protestant denominations is the lack of honour they give
to our Holy Mother. This will change, and very soon.
The Lord wants us united. The devil wants us in little pieces – divided, as we are now.
True Life in God is the Lord’s call to Church unity.
The Lord wants us to unite in the Heart. With LOVE of the Lord in our heart, His House shall revive. Denominations is a minor footnote in our development.
‘..Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox..you all belong to Me…’
Its time we put away our differences, and accept each other as part of the same Body.
We worship the Lord in the beauty of Holiness..
around One Tabernacle.
God bless you all
ps. What would be my ideal denomination ?
It would be protestant that accept Transubstantiation in the Holy Communion, and honour Our Holy Mother.
Sadly, none exist as yet.
Oh boy God would love this site.
I’m really glad that God has called me into ministry. I do as He commanded Mary to do, pray as He commanded Mary to pray and do and pray and behave as He commanded you all to pray and behave. The world see’s a site like this and laughs at His foolish children, Christians and those of the evil one who call themselves kristian. Who cares if you are unfortunate enough to be a Catholic, a Protestant or some other deluded creature! God wants us to be Christian brothers and sisters in Christ. United as one, all part of His body.
Big religion is littered with the murdered martyrs, their history is flowered by the blood of Satans victories, come out of them!
Jesus Christ alone is our salvation and victor. Stop fighting and arguing, STOP IT! And work out your own salvation in all fear and trembling. In the wonderful name of Jesus. Amen.
Now I’m not trying to hate on Catholics. All denominations have something wrong with their doctrine.
Anyways. I don’t get why you have a pope. Pope means father yet Jesus says, “And do not call ANYONE ON EARTH “father/pope”,for you have one Father, and he is in heaven (Matthew 23:9). Is the pope in heaven? I don’t think so.
Is Jesus or the pope the head of the church? (Ephesians 5:23;Colossians 1:18)
And in 1 Corinthians 3 it says do not follow Paul, or the pope, but Jesus Christ.
“There is ONE God and one MEDIATOR between God and men, the man JESUS CHRIST (1 Timothy 2:5)
Mary is not an angel or any other heavenly being. SHE IS A HUMAN.
Now about praying to Mary and saints, most of you will say that you are not praying to them, but asking them to ask God for things. You will say that the Bible encourages others to pray for each other and so we should also pray to Mary and the saints. But there is one simple thing wrong with this: THEY CAN NOT HEAR YOU. Think about it. If you were in heaven, would you be able to hear millions of people asking you things? Remember, only God is OMNISCIENT and OMNIPRESENT. That is, all-knowing, and being everywhere. So what is the point in asking Mary and the saints if they can’t hear you?
PS. And finally, why are Catholics obsessed with saints? The BIBLE says that EVERY CHRISTIAN IS A SAINT, AND EVERY SAINT IS A CHRISTIAN (1 Corinthians 1:2;Acts 9:13;Acts 9:32;Acts 26:10;Romans 1:7;2 Corinthians 1:1;Ephesians 1:1;Philipians 1:1; Colossians 1:2; 2 Corinthinas 13:13;Philipians 4:21-22;Romans 16:15;Romans 12:13;1 Timothy 6:10;Hebrews 13:24;)
James be very careful when you say that all christian are saints.. not everyone who call Me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom…only those who do the Will of My Father…
Many are called – only a few are chosen.
The saints are the chosen few.
The bible assumed that all christians are CHRISTIANS. You and I know different.
The CHRISTIAN is the one who loves the Lord more than anything or anyone on this earth. The few that do, are the saints. Majority of us who still hanker for worldly things are not.
You are right about the use of ‘father’ in the
RC Church. I was worried about it for a long time. When I read True Life in God, not once did Jesus call a priest ‘father’. The Lord called John Paul II, My Peter.
I tried very hard not to call the local priest, ‘father’. The Lord must have sensed my discomfort.
Several months ago, I opened the TLIG book at random during my early morning prayers,then I saw it. The Lord mentioned a ‘Father …’ which put me at my ease. I think it was the one and only instance in the whole book.
I am still uncomfortable with it, especially as the priests are a lot younger than me – lol.
Anyway, we accept our differences then get on trying to live saintly lives.
Joel, where it is written all are called christian in Bible.
Acts 11: 26
It was at Antioch that the disciples were first called ‘Christians’.
Jesus disciples are called christians. Not Mary followers.
Our way to heaven through Jesus only, NOT through rosary or mary or through dead saints
BTW George ,I am still waiting for an answer for #1038
So we clearly see that how humble, sweet Mary, instead of grabbing the glory all for herself, she righlty “commanded” the servants to look to Jesus, because she knew very well who Jesus was (the Son of God – manifested in the flesh). And this is what we all have to do if we truly love Mary is to obey just like how the servants obeyed when she (Mary) commanded and pointed them to Jesus. Likewise, we all have to look to Jesus as he is the only gate to heaven, and not Mary. No where in the scriptures does Mary ever command anyone to seek her through worship or prayer. Mary cannot answer anyone’s prayer because she is not God. She is not omniscience nor omnipresent. Only God, Jesus is. Mary set to us an example we should all follow. And these are biblical accounts that record the very words she (Mary) spoke from her very own mouth.
Why did Mary point the servants to Jesus? Because, she is the human mother of Jesus, she could not turn the water into wine and she knew her own limitations.
Now the million dollar question is this: If Mary the mother of Jesus could not turn the water into wine at the wedding at Cana, so…. how come apparitions of the so called “Our Lady” that are manifesting in our present times appear to dispense what many people call it as miracles? What is the proof that these apparitions are revelations from God and are NOT satan’s deceptive plans?
Clearly the scriptures state that – Well, no wonder! Even satan can disguise himself to look like an angel of light! – 2 Corinthians 11:14. These so-called Our Lady manifestations are not supported by scripture, so they are simply “demonic” manifestations of Satan to deceive people.
The so called Our Lady apparitions who is also called the “Queen Of Heaven” is not the mother of Jesus, but rather a “pagan goddess” – satan’s counterfeit. This pagan Queen of Heaven that everyone thinks is the mother of Jesus is mentioned in the scriptures, read the book of Jeremiah 7:18, 44:18, Revelation chapters 17 and 18.
The owner of this blog/website Mr. Georgy is misled, brain-washed and a jesuit operative who thru the so-called “Jesus Youth” charismatic group are not actually spreading the truth as claimed “soldiers of christ” but rather as “pagan soldiers of the pagan Pope. The main agenda is to spread the ecumenical nonsense. All that spituality stuff charismatics and jesuits ignatian spirituality is not christian but has its roots on ancient paganism originated from Egypt – eastern religions, spirituality stuff that is also found in Budhism, Taoism, Hiduism. Cleverly packaged stuff covered very neathly and disguised as christian spirituality. Spirituality that is actually luciferian worship. The devil is really clever.
Nathaniel Fernandes.
Re:Comment 1062
Nathaniel, you truly do not understand the meaning of the Cana miracle, do you ?
I will explain it here, for the final time, so that those who are in the dark like you may see.
Our Father, God, used Cana to reveal to us the power of Mary’s intercession on our behalf to Her Son. ‘..this sign was meant for all ages to come…’
When the wine ran out, Mary went to Jesus and said that they have no more wine. Jesus, not knowing that His time had come, said: ‘Woman, what do you want from me ? My time has not yet come’
There is a reason why Jesus called Mary, ‘Woman’, and not ‘Mother’
Do you know why Nathaniel ?
Anyway, soon after Jesus said that, the Holy Spirit revealed to Him that His time had come. Notice that Mary did not take notice of what Jesus said.
‘Do what ever He tells you’, she said. She knew that Jesus’s time had come.
Like an obedient son, He carried out her request.
This miracle at Cana forms the basis of why the RC ask Mary to intercede on their behalf.
Whatever Mary asks of her Son, He will do it.
By the way Nathaniel, this is not my explanation. It is Our Father God’s.
( Refer to one of my previous posts )
Let me give you a friendly warning. From the tone of your post above, I think you need it. Do not denounce or condemn out of hand the Lord’s Messages in ‘True Life in God’
The Lord said that we should look at its fruits – how its spreading like wild fire in the world today. Hindhus, Budhists, Moslems are coming to the Lord after reading the Messages.
…those who still condemn this work after witnessing its fruits, will be blespheming the Holy Spirit…the only sin that will never be forgiven.
Consider yourself warned.
jibson.babu, the Rosary was brought to us by the Holy Mother through the instructions of Jesus.
All of Christendom will be honouring Our Holy Mother very soon, and praying the Rosary.
As for your question in 1038,we cannot ‘prove’ that the Woman in Rev Chap 12 is Our Holy Mother. We can ‘show’ that it is, in fact, Her, by collating all the clues given in the Chapter.
Time to leave.
‘..God’s benison go with thee, and with those that would make good of bad; friends of foes..’
Dear Joe,
You wrote “the Rosary was brought to us by the Holy Mother through the instructions of Jesus”
Can you show me one verse in Bible. Don’t talk like kids.
Hope you know the 15 promises that rosary gives. all those are against the word of god. You want me to prove this?
Hope you read the bible. In Bible there is an order of resurrection. ( if you need I can give the verses )
1. Jesus
2. Those are dead in Christ
3. those who live in Christ.
We all know his second coming not happened till now. So how mary went to heaven by bypassing the word of god.
If you are saying something then you have to prove based on word of god. NOT word of men.
Revelation 12 woman is NOT mary. read the whole chapter and ask your priest and let me know what your priest says.
As you mentioned
“As for your question in 1038,wecannot ‘prove’ that the Woman in Rev Chap 12 is Our Holy Mother. We can ‘show’ that it is, in fact, Her, by collating all the clues given in the Chapter.”
That’s what I said read the full chapter and you will come to know that lady is NOT mary.
You cannot prove and your church cannot prove.
one of the rosary promises is mary will redeem from purgatory!. Last year Pope said it’s not a place. It’s a process. ( I can post the link if you want ) .That means rosary and its promises are a big lie. Those apparitions are NOT from God.
In Bible ONLY one mediator and that mediator is a man NOT woman. Can you show me single verse saying we have multiple mediators?
Wake up Joe…
@ Joe, you said
“Whatever Mary asks of her Son, He will do it”
Who said the above?
Hope you know what Jesus said. whatever you ask in MY NAME ( that is jesus name ) father will give you.
He didnt say ask in mother name! Follow what jesus said.Dont follow men.
Wake up man…. RC church will not help you. ONLY jesus can. so follow jesus and his words.
God bless you
Re: Comment 1063:
Joeli it looks that you are in the dark yourself. You say our Father God used Cana… then who is Jesus? Not begotten the Son of God? Is he not God himself in the flesh? Who came from the father? Read the Gospel of John properly to ascertain the deity of Jesus Christ. Jesus called Mary “woman” because he is the creator who created Mary from the dust of the earth unlike we all who come from the line of of first fallen parents Adam and Eve. Jesus is God himself manifested in the flesh came into the world to redeem mankind (you and me) from the curse of sin, death and hell. Jesus is only the way the truth and the life. No one cometh unto the father but by me. Please go to the KJV Bible for it is the only the true preserved infallible Word of God. The rest of the moderm/catholic bibles out there are just satans’ corrupted versions that misguide people like you.
Nathan,
Catholics know only 3 verses from Bible
1. peter and rock
2. marriage party at cana
3. rev 12:1 lady is mother mary
Correct me if i am wrong
Nothing else
God bless you
@jibson:
You are absolutely spot on. Catholics are brain-washed with only those 3 verses. Catholicism is of the devil. The biggest man-made cult religion system in the world. The woman is rev 12:1 is not mother mary. The woman is always used to depict the bride of Christ – his Church. Further if one reads couple verses ahead, it states that the red dragon (the devil) which symbolizes the RC Church (as its priests/clergy are always in red outfits) chased her off into the wilderness as she gave birth to a male child who is Jesus – who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne – Jesus is seated at the right hand of God The Father in Heaven. The act of the woman fleeing into the wilderness (rev 12:6) depicts the persecuted church of Christ fleeing from the apostate RC Church.
Every Blessings in Christ to you.
Mr. Jibson & Mr. Nathaniel
What ever the Catholic Church does is foolish in the eyes of the world. God knows all these…. coze He is the one who gave all these things…
And guys…. sorry for the late reply. was in my Lenten practices all these days…. and i was reveled by Him that you people are used by the satan to abandon the only Church. you people target the laity… not the priests, coze they know that for sure. you ppl want all the Catholics out of the Catholic Church. then the Church is left abandon. that is wat the satan wants. you are clearly used by that nasty one who is deceiving all of you.
you ppl are not trying to correct us in any way, but to corrupt us. like you are corrupted. its a disease that you are spreading in the world.
and to you Mr. Nathaniel
you seen Catholic Priests wearing red often. It has a wealth of meaning behind it. every thing for that matter. red is a symbolic representation of sacrifice. it is worn on special days… and i tell you. never talk in contempt of the Catholic Church, and you will face the wrath of God.
and to you Mr. Jibson
the answer to your question will be posted in a short time, when He who is seated on the Throne revels it to me .
@george:
Please provide solid concrete proof when u decide to make statements. Simply do not pass comments which is a figment coming from the imagination of your mind. I don’t hate people who are Catholic or otherwise. I am simply against the false doctrine and anti-biblical teachings of the Catholic Church. Please study history and get you facts straight. Learn why the RC Church burnt people at the stake during the inquisition and the crusades. Certainly if RC Church is the one true church, then it cannot preach violence and hatred towards mankind isn’t it? BTW you say red color is a symbolic representation of sacrifice. Can u please tell me what is that sacrifice you mean? Please come to the truth if you love the truth. I have observed so many false teachings you post in your articles on this blog of yours. BTW I would love to see what is your interpretation of Rev 12:1 onward. Also it is a clear indication that you do not have an answer to Jibson. You state the He who is seated in his trone will revel .. How? Will he whisper into your ears. If you think so, then you are totally mis-informed person. Please be aware in this present dispensation of the Church age God reveals himself only through the revelation of His Holy infallible word – The Bible and His son Jesus Christ being the only fullfillment of redemption and not through any other means. God does not communicate or reveal to anyone in the present time by direct revelation. Please study the scripture thoroughly to rightly divide the word of truth. If you claim He on the throne will reveal to you bypassing His sacred Word, then that revelation is not of God but it is by a familiar or seducing spirit, masquerading as the Holy Spirit of God. This is actually a false doctrine/teaching of the Charismatic nonsense taught by the Catholic Church. A teaching that corrupts people’s mind. God Bless.
1 Timothy 4:1 says -“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils”.
John 17:17 says -“Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth”
Psalm 138:2 says =”I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name”.
1 John 4:1 says -“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world”.
1 John 4:2 says – “Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
@george:
Do you know that the sacrifice of the Catholoc mass is defunct and over and the roles of the priesthood abolished in the New Testament when Jesus uttered the final words – IT IS FINISHED! – before he breathed his last on the cross? The sacrifice was over because the Son of God performed that one perfect sacrifice by offering up himself in atonement of sins of all mankind once for all that can never be repeated again.
*emphasis mine
oh my goodness … Babylon The Great Has Fallen!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd6JM3h6jOg&feature=player_embedded
Nathaniel,
i did not say any thing about whispering of words in my ears. i never told how He revels things to me. He will answer my call. and when He does i will put them down has is…!
where you a Catholic at any point in time. you didn’t participate in any of those practices that the Church undertakes. and you condemn us just like that. for each and every thing that the Church does i can give explanation, what is the use. you are not going to accept that, coze you are blinded by hatred. if you ppl are so concerned about the teachings of the Church and call then false, then y break up in the first place, there are a alot of ppl who have fought against the wrongs in the church and and have won it, they did not break up. then what difference does it make b/w u and d satan!
Jibson Sir,
#1038
1. Can you please shed light on who is the woman in Rev 12: 1 according to “you”?
2. Have you compared the passages Rev 12: 1 onwards with “the woman” in Genesis 3:15 ?
3. Do u or do u not find similarities between the woman in Rev 12:1 & Gen 3:15 ?
4. Why?
5. How do you prove “The woman” in Rev 12:1 is not Mary?
I’ve just started my career, so I don’t have a car yet : (
Hi sharon,
If you are saying Rev 12 woman is Mary then you have to prove. BTW Rev 12 chapter nothing to do with Genesis.
Clue:- Read the full chapter Revelation 12
Rgds
@ George , Still waiting ………………………………………………………
George:
At #1073 you say .. you condemn us.. I have already stated that I don’t condemn misled Catholics like yourself but the anti-biblical teachings of the RC Church. False traditions of men teachings that you are programmed to defend without any basis of truth. I baffles me how you blindly defending a false faith. Why dont u simply accept the truth and shame the devil? You should care for your precious soul. REMEMBER – when u pass away from this world, God is not going to judge you because you belong to the alleged one true church, or you being a religious zealot, but his he going to judge you only by His word. Please come to the saving knowledge of our Lord and only saviour – The Lord Jesus Christ. Put your trust in Him completely for your salvation. Salvation is found in the person of Jesus Christ and not in anything else. You can get to heaven thru any means. There is only one gate – and that gate is the Lord Jesus. I pray that the Holy Spirit of God sanctify you the truth and preserve you for His Glory, we all including Mary the Mother of Jesus, and the apostles are all partakers in God;s Glory. To Him be the Glory forever AMEN> God Bless you.
Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus ..
Yes RELiGION is man-made traditions try to reach out to God. Christianity is God reaching out to men in offering a free Gift of Salvation.
Hi friends,
This link below should answer all your questions about Mother Mary.
http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/woman.html
God Bless You
Georgy
Jibson
@#1075
If u don’t perceive the similarity even after reading it, well there is no point I waste your time & my time giving a proof.
Still for your reference, I point you to the same link given by Georgy above. I’m sure your proof is in the discussion too , so will be helpful to compare.
Praise The Lord.
i have sped read most of your comment; most of them commenting on the old testament and also nothing ever mentioned about praying the rosary. you all seem to forget – the visions of mary and the immaculate conception, the visions of fatima and her requests to pray the rosary!. on a more simplistic manner, she is an intercessor. you want to get to your father, go through your mother!
i also failed to mention, it was waaaaay after abraham and the old testament. it was 1916! HELLO! at the same time, there is an argument at hand; do what makes you feel that which is necessary, no matter what means there is to the end. the bottom line, HE love us and Mary is just one road to use her as an intercession to her Son!
All the below verses are from Catholic Bible. I am taking verse by verse ( sorry for my bad english )
Revelation 12:1
Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman, robed with the sun, standing on the moon, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
Now come to OT
Genesis 37:9
He had another dream which he recounted to his brothers. ‘Look, I have had another dream,’ he said. ‘There were the sun, the moon and eleven stars, bowing down to me.’
In the above what is Joseph’s dream? Is it Mary? NO
In Bible Israel was projected as a woman. See the below verses
Jeremiah 31:4
I shall build you once more, yes, you will be rebuilt, Virgin of Israel! Once more in your best attire, and with your tambourines, you will go out dancing gaily.
Isaiah 54: 5
For your Creator is your husband, Yahweh Sabaoth is his name, the Holy One of Israel is your redeemer, he is called God of the whole world. 6 Yes, Yahweh has called you back like a forsaken, grief-stricken wife, like the repudiated wife of his youth, says your God.
Next verse
12:2
She was pregnant, and in labour, crying aloud in the pangs of childbirth.
See what Isaiah, Malachi & and Jesus said about the pain
Isaiah 26:17
As a pregnant woman near her time of delivery writhes and cries out in her pangs, so have we been, Yahweh, in your eyes:
Mt 24:8
All this is only the beginning of the birth pangs.
Micah 5:2
Hence Yahweh will abandon them only until she who is in labour gives birth, and then those who survive of his race will be reunited to the Israelites.
In the above their topic is NOT Mary
Next verse
12:5
The woman was delivered of a boy, the son who was to rule all the nations with an iron sceptre, and the child was taken straight up to God and to his throne,
We all know this boy is Jesus.
Remember John saying it’s a sign only. We see the boy in heaven. But his birth was in earth NOT in heaven.
Next verse
12:6
while the woman escaped into the desert, where God had prepared a place for her to be looked after for twelve hundred and sixty days.
When Mary escaped to desert and why God going to prepare a place for Mary? Mary and Joseph with Jesus escaped to Egypt to protect Jesus, NOT for her own safety. Here in Revelation God protecting the woman! So do we need to assume Mary coming back? in Bible ONLY Jesus going come again NOT Mary.
Now go back to OT and check
Hosea 2:17-18
There she will respond as when she was young, as on the day when she came up from Egypt. 18 When that day comes- declares Yahweh- you will call me, ‘My husband’, no more will you call me, ‘My Baal’.
Who came from Egypt from slavery? Mary or Israel? Also in the above verse its saying they will call me” My husband “. if we believe the woman is Mary then Mother Mary also the wife of Jesus?
Now read this verse carefully
12: 14
but she was given a pair of the great eagle’s wings to fly away from the serpent into the desert, to the place where she was to be looked after for a time, two times and half a time.
When God given wings to Mary? Let’s see in OT about the wings
Exodus 19:4
“You have seen for yourselves what I did to the Egyptians and how I carried you away on eagle’s wings and brought you to me.
We all know the above Moses and Egyptians and Israelites history
We are clear now that Rev 12:1 woman is NOT Mary.
In Bible Paul mentioning about an order of resurrection.
1 Corinthians 15:23
but all of them in their proper order: Christ the first-fruits, and next, at his coming, those who belong to him.
1 Thessalonians 4: 16
At the signal given by the voice of the Archangel and the trumpet of God, the Lord himself will come down from heaven; those who have died in Christ will be the first to rise,
1 Corinthians 15:52
but we are all going to be changed, instantly, in the twinkling of an eye, when the last trumpet sounds. The trumpet is going to sound, and then the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed,
We all know Jesus second coming not happened So how Mary went to heaven by passing the above word of God?
Revelation 4:4
Round the throne in a circle were twenty-four thrones, and on them twenty-four elders sitting, dressed in white robes with golden crowns on their heads.
Revelation 22:3
The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city; his servants will worship him,
Where is Mary’s throne?
We all know the below verse
John 2:5
His mother said to the servants, ‘Do whatever he tells you.’
If she is Mother of Church and christians then why we are not obeying the below verse?
The Proverbs 1:8
Listen, my child, to your father’s instruction, do not reject your mother’s teaching:
Mary is mother of Jesus. NOT Christ’s mother.
Hebrews 7: 3
he has no father, mother or ancestry, and his life has no beginning or ending;
God bless you
Points of observation i.r.t http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/woman.html
1.) The owner of that website is one Bob Stanley and he is an unsound person.
2.) You need to search the scriptures for anwers and not get answers from website of somebody else, since you mentioned in your earlier post that .. “he who sits on the throne will revel “.. to you. But i see you instead got revelation elsewhere because your itchy ears chose to hear what others are saying – things that are sounding pleasingly nice to your ears.
3.) Who assigned/gave the title “Mother of God” to Mary? – The Bible/scriptures or some human pope? Do i Impart beauty to Aishwarya Rai by simply commenting or praising her beauty? It was the pope who assigened the title Mother of God to Mary accordingly to his own interpreation for which is contrary to the scripture. The Bible does not assign that title to Mary. Just because a human pope declared the title Mother of God to Mary – does she actually become God – that is the one who is omniscience/omnipotence who can hear our prayers? Why is that website silent about who assigned the “Mother of God” title to Mary? Did you know that no human on this earth be it you, Has the pope authority to add to or remove words from scripture? The said pope has committed a blatant violation and mockery of the scriptures by giving “Mother of God” title to Mary.
4.) The website owner also fails to distinguish between who is a Christian, catholic, and Roman Catholic. He uses the words Catholic and Christian interchangeably so as to confuse his readers. He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
5.) The Apostle John wrote the book of Revelation while in exile in the island of Patmos. He certainly would not miss to mention the Woman to be Mary. If the scripture says so or not, then so be it. It is the infallbile Word of God and it is the final authoity which no human pope or otherwise can change it. By giving private inteprerations, we are simply jumping to conclusions and adding to the Word of God. Evangelicals are right because they solidly affirm that Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven (John 14:6). Mary even pointed the servants to Jesus instead of herself (John 2:5), as she was unable to turn the water into wine – and she affirms that Jesus and NOT she is the source of eternal life.
6.) The Woman in Genesis 3:15 and Rev 12:1 is always used as symbol representing the Church – the Bride of Chirst. BTW the Church precisely a true NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH is the body of Christ – comprising of spiritually Born again believers all Christians who only source of divine Authority for all matters of faith, practice and doctrine is the sacred scritures of the Bible – God’s in-errant and infallible Word of God – a Love Letter to makind – his creation.
7.) The website in question matt1618 is just a bundle of endless mumbo-jumbo designed by the God of this earth to confuse people.
8.) Jesus commisioned the 12 Apostles to go and spread the “Good News” – the Gospel far and wide to the uttermost parts of the earth.The Gospel of Mathew talks about the “Great Commission”. The Apostle where so zealous in spreading the Good News that they did not care about the intense persecution they had to endure. They were willing to lay their lives for the Gospel’s sake. They stuck their necks out on the chopping block. Did Mary do the same? Did she stick her neck on the chopping block for the Gospel sake? Just like what the apostles did? Do you know that the last Apostle to die was John who before penning down the book of Revelation was arrested and fried alive in a tub of hot boiling oil but was later released as he survived the terrible ordeal. Yes Mary did her part – priveleged by God’s grace to bring the Messiah into the world. And so more futher. Her role was complete. Much how the Apostle role commissioned by Jesus was to go an spread the Good News of the Gospel far and wide.
9.) And as in the case of John the Baptist, if we allow Mary to speak of herself, this is what she says, “Behold, the handmaid of the Lord” (Luke 1:38), and “my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior” (Luke 1:47). Mary did not lie, I’m sure we agree, and there you have it, she said that God was her Savior, which means she needed to be saved. She knew well who she was, and we have it from her own mouth in the humblest of words.
Don’t try to get carried away by personal sentiments. The truth is in the Bible. If we question and go against God’s Holy Bible then we are actually questioning God’s Word and that is the ploy of Satan to deceive people. Why is the website matt1618 silent on who is that “Queen of Heaven” mentioned in the Book of Jeremiah. The Catholic Church is sinisterly very silent on the same. Why?
10.) When the Lord Jesus spoke of heaven, He said, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by me” (John 14:6). He never said, “To Jesus through Mary,” but rather, as His words indicate, the way to God the Father is through Jesus Christ. So let’s not allow ourselves to be deceived, nor allow our respect for Mary to be misguided by traditions or sentimentalism. She is blessed, but she is not the way to God. The Lord Jesus Christ is the way, the only way (see Peter’s words in Acts 4:12).
11.) She is not the mother of God. No one in heaven, or in the Church in the New Testament called Mary “Mother of God,” because God does not have a mother or a beginning; He is eternal. God the Son existed in heaven in perfect fellowship and glory with the Father before creation (see John 17:5). Mary is the mother of Jesus, simply the human vessel through which God became flesh, blessed to receive the Incarnate Lord, not to make Him.
12.) She is not the mother of the Church, nor of the apostles (at least not of the true Church), because the Church is a creation of God through the Holy Spirit, just as Adam and Eve were created without human parents. The Church is the bride of the Lord Jesus Christ, not the daughter of Mary. Therefore, to present Mary as the mother of the Church is not mystic, but simply ridiculous.
13.) Can anyone tell me who is that Women holding a child in her hand. Is she Mary and Baby Jesus? You see this picture frame adorning walls of many houses.
@ Nathaniel
Also the website owner silent on the below verse
12: 14
but she was given a pair of the great eagle’s wings to fly away from the serpent into the desert, to the place where she was to be looked after for a time, two times and half a time.
@1075
Jibson said, Rev 12:1 has nothing to do with Genesis 3:15.
Then Nathanielin #1084 said, both Rev 12:1 woman & Gen 3:15 woman are The Church, bride of Jesus Christ.
Are you both on the same page? Whose interpretation is complete?
Do you think, all the denominational breakaways have the same understanding of the Bible , do they all even refer the same Bible? If no, then why are you only against one catholic church which is united across the world?
In the above verses in question do you even understand the meaning of “The seed of woman” ? Do you believe in virginal birth? Do you know the meaning of “offspring” and “rest of her offspring” in this context?
Rev 12:1 cannot be the church. Jesus started the church. **Church did not give birth to Christ **. Period. Hence Christ cannot be the church’s first offspring. Nor even in spiritual way which you bring to mention “church” as the body of Christ.
The woman in Rev 12 :1 & Gen 3:15 is mother Mary.
Then why that website silent on
12: 14
but she was given a pair of the great eagle’s wings to fly away from the serpent into the desert, to the place where she was to be looked after for a time, two times and half a time.
There is a mention, in article’s author’s words:
“In fact there is something in Mary’s life that did have her flee. Herod wanted to destroy all the children, for the purpose of destroying the one who would be the Messiah (Mt. 2:16-17). She fled with Joseph to escape the wrath of King Herod based on the angel telling Joseph through a dream. Thus, actually there was something in Mary’s life that matches Revelation 12. In Revelation 12, the dragon, or Satan, tried to destroy the child Jesus when he became born (Rev. 12:2-5). They fled and stayed in Egypt (or the wilderness) until King Herod died and it became safe to return back to Israel. This matches the happenings as found in Matthew. ”
Can you please tell us, what does Rev 12: 14 means to you?
In parallel we have,
Ex: 19:4
You have seen how I treated the Egyptians and how I bore you up on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself.
That means divine help, here which the Holy Family received.
sharon,
Mary ,Joseph and Jesus flee to Egypt for Jesus’s safety. NOT Mary’s safety. Here Mary is fleeing for safety.Also God never protected her for 1260 days in Egypt.
In Exodus 19:4 who delivered from Egyptains? NOT Mary. who came from Egypt? NOT Mary.
Even if that woman is Mary , then we have to prove how she reached heaven and appearing all over the world and giving commands which is against jesus’s teachings. Jesus never said anyone that my mother will appear soon then we have to obey based on her teaching.
Read my earlier post , st.paul mentioning an order for resurrection.
Mary is nothing to do with our salvation.
God bless you
/should-we-pray-to-virgin-Mary?
For me… no
I only pray to God, alone through Jesus
and personally.. i dont think the saints in heaven can pray for the people living on the earth.. even if they have the most amazing part and lived the holiest.. i dont believe that they can hear prayers of millions of people praying to them… i mean.. are they God? that can hear prayers? or request?
we cannot say “hey St. Peter.. please pray to God for me.. or please send this prayer to Jesus because i cant…”
we CAN approach the throne of God because of His grace through Jesus
Blessings
Yes of course Ex 19:4 was about Moses. I brought in the parallel’s between eagle’s wings = divine help.
Yes for Jesus’ safety. In the article as clearly stated the answer was for the question, there was no similar event had happened in Mary’s life. And it is a general article. Not the one written after this blog-post, to have addressed it specifically : )
The Revelation cannot be taken literally. And chapter 12 is divided into time periods. Jesus Birth, death at Calvary, resurrection, ascension and then there is more to it, spiritual birth of Christianity at the foot of Calvary. If you will, please refer to Appendix 2 in the article ( preferable complete article again).
1260 days is referred several times, even in Daniel. I haven’t been able to interpret it nor have put much effort. If you can explain me your thoughts, I will appreciate it with much open mind.
Just because we cannot prove something, that doesn’t mean it cannot be. Bible was not written to prove or disprove itself. ( I don’t know if I should say this here, some people gone to the extent to prove Jesus is lucifer by using Bible’s own verses. Georgy, please moderate the statement in the brackets if it is not allowed. How dangerous personal interpretation can be then!)
Jesus IS our salvation. Of course, Mary is not greater than her Creator. But she is the best of His creations. Jesus is the center of Bible, that is why she is hidden. We Catholics are proud to call her our Mother for generations as she herself claimed! Bible cannot be false right? Elizabeth exclaimed her as “Mother of my Lord” inspired by Holy Spirit so boldly when women were forbidden to call God’s name! THROUGH HOLY SPIRIT. It is in the Bible. It cannot be a lie.
1 Corinthian 15
50: I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51: Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52: in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and
we shall be changed.
53: For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.
54: When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
Please check the below complete context:
John 6:38: For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me;
39: and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day.
40: For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
41: The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.”
42: They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, `I have come down from heaven’?”
43: Jesus answered them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.
44: No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45: It is written in the prophets, `And they shall all be taught by God.’ Every one who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me.
46: Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father.
47: Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
48: I am the bread of life.
49: Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.
50: This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die.
51: I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
52: The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53: So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
54: he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
*Also, please refer the Last Supper*
One more,
Based on the verse given by you Hebrews 7: 3
“he has no father, mother or ancestry, and his life has no beginning or ending;â€
Please, The text is simply making the point that the priesthood of Melchizedek is superior to that of Aaron because it is not based on human descent.
The complete context is here: Hebrews 7:6, 11-16
1 Melchizedek, king of Salem, a priest of God Most High, came to meet Abraham when he returned from defeating the kings, and blessed him;
2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. By the interpretation of his name, he is, first, ‘king of saving justice’ and also king of Salem, that is, ‘king of peace’;
3 he has no father, mother or ancestry, and his life has no beginning or ending; he is like the Son of God. He remains a priest for ever.
4 Now think how great this man must have been, if the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the finest plunder.
5 We know that any of the descendants of Levi who are admitted to the priesthood are obliged by theLaw to take tithes from the people, that is, from their own brothers although they too are descended from Abraham.
6 But this man, who was not of the same descent, took his tithe from Abraham, and he gave hisblessing to the holder of the promises.
7 Now it is indisputable that a blessing is given by a superior to an inferior.
8 Further, in the normal case it is ordinary mortal men who receive the tithes, whereas in that case it was one who is attested as being alive.
9 It could be said that Levi himself, who receives tithes, actually paid tithes, in the person of Abraham,
10 because he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchizedek came to meet him.
11 Now if perfection had been reached through the levitical priesthood — and this was the basis of the Law given to the people — why was it necessary for a different kind of priest to arise, spoken of as being of the order of Melchizedek rather than of the order of Aaron?
12 Any change in the priesthood must mean a change in the Law as well.
13 So our Lord, of whom these things were said, belonged to a different tribe, the members of which have never done service at the altar;
14 everyone knows he came from Judah, a tribe which Moses did not mention at all when dealing with priests.
…
You are separating Jesus’ humanity from His Divinity!! by claiming “Mary is mother of Jesus. NOT Christ’s mother.” ! Why did Jesus had to born as a human then! He could just directly come down , destroyed the satan..woosh gone.. Why did he suffer in the flesh! Why are we called to be of image of God! Why did God made the promise of salvation when first parents sinned?
When did Jesus become Christ, only after His death? Did his mission started only at the Calvary? What about His teachings & life ( hidden & public)?
That hurt.
In my previous comment, 1 Corinthian 15 : 50 onwards ( verse given by you ) refers to resurrection of *physical bodies*.
@Sharon ..
Denominational breakaways have got nothing to do with understanding of the Bible. All 40,000+ plus evangelicals out there are commonly united that Jesus Christ is the only gate to heaven (John 14:6) and the scriptures are their only source of divine authority, but not so with the Roman Catholic Church.
All Catholics understand that the Church is a physical entity or concrete building, but biblically it is not the correct meaning. The New Testament Church is a fellowship of spirtually born-again believers that form the body of Christ – that is the true definition of the first New Testament chruch. Christians of the first New Testamant Churches always met underground (in private houses) due to the intense persecutions. In the book of Acts 11:26 we see the that followers or disciples of Christ were called Christians first at Antioch.
Remember that Jesus Christ primary aim to manifest as God himself in the flesh on this earth was to redeem mankind from past, present and future sins and to reconcile them to God. The Church Christ set up is defined in the New Testament and according to Ephesians 2:20 in the Catholic Bible, the Church depicted in the New Testament was “Built upon the foundation of the Apostles and prophets with Christ Jesus Himself as the Chief Corner stone”. That makes it clear that the Church was built on the foundation laid by all the Apostles and prophets – and Jesus Christ the Corner stone and head of His Church. The Pope is not the head of the Church neither is he the vicar of Christ, but are titles that the pope has usurped cladestinely.
Myself and Jibson are on the same page. I see what jibson actually meant that Gen 3:15 and Rev 12:1 is not Mary – perhaps due to his bad english :) But the scriptures mentioned represent the Nation Israel. The 12 stars represent the 12 tribes of israel which God will save in the endtimes. The woman is not Mary as you claim. John the author of the book of Revelation would certainly mention her name. He was the Apostle Jesus entrusted to be the custodian of Mary after Jesus gave up his Ghost on the cross.
Hosea 11:1 says – “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt”.
In general evangelicals agree that the New Testament Church is the bride of Christ – a bride being a woman. After all a bride is obviously a woman and bridegroom is Christ. Ephesians 5:22-33 compares the union of husband and wife to that of Christ and the church. Why?? see also about the bridegroom in John 3:29. See about the bride in Rev 21:2, 21:9 and 22:17.
The New Testament Church is never called a women or a mother, she is called a bride and wife (Rev 21:9, 19:7) and a virgin ( 2 cor 11:2). The “mother” of the Christian is New Jerusalem (Gal 4:26) not the church and certainly not Mary!
In Revelation chapter 12, John sees a vision of a woman “clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars” (Revelation 12:1). Note the similarity between this description and the description
that Joseph gave of his father Jacob (Israel) and his mother and their children (Genesis 37:9-11). The twelve stars refer to the twelve tribes of Israel. So the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel and not Mary. The women associated with the Sun (Jacob) moon (Rachel) and twelve stars ( twelve tribes of Jacob) is Israel ( Gen 37:9-10). Israel is taken into wilderness for protection on eagles wings (Rev 12: 6,16, Hos 2:14-15, Deut 32:9-11). Israel is the women that brings forth Jesus Christ. Rev 12:5, Heb 2:16, Gal 3:16 , Rom 1:3).
Christians do not base their doctrnes on the Gospels in regards to the last supper but according to the teachings of the Apostle Paul who preached to the Gentiles while the Apostle Peter preached to the Jews.All Christians refer to 1 Corinthians 11:23-29. We have to study the Bible dispensationally. Remember the Gospels were in the transitional stage as the New Testament scriptures were not complete. That is why one see’s that Jesus and his Apostles were
always refering to Old Testament scriptures because the New Testament scripture where not complete.
Why did Christ come in the flesh? See 1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: Christ Jesus had to come in the flesh to condem sin in the flesh and by his shedding of His blood on the cross – an atonement for sin, we are healed (Isaian 53:5). What is unique of the crucifixion is the shedding of Christ’s precious blood in atonement
for sin. In placing out trust in Jesus alone for Salation, God sees the believer as a righteous person before His Holy deity because Christ exchanged His cloak of righteousness to the believer at the time the believer places His complete trust in Christ alone for salvation.
Hmm, pray to Vigrgin Mary? It’s an interesting thing to ponder but doesn’t it state in the Bible that Jesus is the one to pray to?
@Sharon ..
Denominational breakaways have got nothing to do with understanding of the Bible. All 40,000+ plus evangelicals out there are commonly united that Jesus Christ is the only gate to heaven (John 14:6) and the scriptures are their only source of divine authority, but not so with the Roman Catholic Church.
All Catholics understand that the Church is a physical entity or concrete building, but biblically it is not the correct meaning. The New Testament Church is a fellowship of spirtually born-again believers that form the body of Christ – that is the true definition of the first New Testament chruch. Christians of the first New Testamant Churches always met undergroud (in private houses) due to the intense persecutions. In the book of Acts 11:26 we see the that followers or disciples of Christ were called Christians first at Antioch.
Remember that Jesus Christ primary aim to manifest as God himself in the flesh on this earth was to redeem mankind from past, present and future sins and to reconcile them to God. The Church Christ set up is defined in the New Testament and according to Ephesians 2:20 in the Catholic Bible, the Church depicted in the New Testament was “Built upon the foundation of the Apostles and prophets with Christ Jesus Himself as the Chief Corner stone”. That makes it clear that the Church was built on the foundation laid by all the Apostles and prophets – and Jesus Christ the Corner stone and head of His Church. The Pope is not the head of the Church neither is he the vicar of Christ, but are titles that the pope has usurped cladestinely.
Myself and Jibson are on the same page. I see what jibson actually meant that Gen 3:15 and Rev 12:1 is not Mary – perhaps due to his bad english :) But the scriptures mentioned represent the Nation Israel. The 12 stars represent the 12 tribes of israel which God will save in the endtimes. The woman is not Mary as you claim. John the author of the book of Revelation would certainly mention her name. He was the Apostle Jesus entrusted to be the custodian of Mary after Jesus gave up his Ghost on the cross.
Hosea 11:1 says – “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt”.
In general evangelicals agree that the New Testament Church is the bride of Christ – a bride being a woman. After all a bride is obviously a woman and bridegroom is Christ. Ephesians 5:22-33 compares the union of husband and wife to that of Christ and the church. Why?? see also about the bridegroom in John 3:29. See about the bride in Rev 21:2, 21:9 and 22:17.
The New Testament Church is never called a women or a mother, she is called a bride and wife (Rev 21:9, 19:7) and a virgin ( 2 cor 11:2). The “mother” of the Christian is New Jerusalem (Gal 4:26) not the church and certainly not Mary!
In Revelation chapter 12, John sees a vision of a woman “clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars” (Revelation 12:1). Note the similarity between this description and the description that Joseph gave of his father Jacob (Israel) and his mother and their children (Genesis 37:9-11). The twelve stars refer to the twelve tribes of Israel. So the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.. The women associated with the Sun (Jacob) moon (Rachel) and twelve stars ( twelve tribes of Jacob) is Israel ( Gen 37:9-10). Israel is taken into wilderness for protection on eagles wings (Rev 12: 6,16, Hos 2:14-15, Deut 32:9-11). Israel is the women that brings forth Jesus Christ. Rev 12:5, Heb 2:16, Gal 3:16 , Rom 1:3).
Chrsitians do not base their doctrnes on the Gospels in regards to the last supper but according to the teachings of the Apostle Paul who preached to the Gentiles while the Apostle Peter preached to the Jews. Christian refer to 1 Corinthians 11:23-29. We have to study the Bible dispensationally. Remember the Gospels were in the transitional stage as the New Testament scriptures were not complete. That is why one see’s that Jesus and his Apostles were always refering to Old Testament scriptures because the New Testament scripture where not complete.
Why did Christ come in the flesh? See 1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: Christ Jesus had to come in the flesh to condem sin in the flesh and by his shedding of His blood on the cross – an atonement for sin, we are healed (Isaian 53:5). What is unique of the crucifixion is the shedding of Christ’s precious blood in atonement for sin. In placing out trust in Jesus alone for Salation, God sees the believer as a righteous person before His Holy deity because Christ exchanged His cloak of righteousness to the believer at the time the believer places His complete trust in Christ alone for salvation.
sharon,
if you want to know what 1260 days means, here it is … The Book of Daniel contains prophecy material that ties to the book of Revelation.
The woman’s flight into the wilderness for 1,260 days refers to the future time called the Great Tribulation. Twelve hundred, sixty days is 42 months (of 30 days each), which is the same as 3 1/2 years. Halfway through the Tribulation period, the Beast (the Antichrist) will set an image of himself up in the temple that will be built in Jerusalem. This is the abomination that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14. When the Beast does this, he breaks the peace pact he had made with Israel, and the nation has to flee for safety—possibly to Petra (also see Matthew 24, Daniel 9:27). This escape of the Jews is pictured as the woman fleeing into the wilderness.
Highly favored or full of grace?
The Angel Gabriel said “hail full of Grace”. This is very different from “highly favored”. The church translations are in error of late (in my opinion) due to Ecunemism I believe. The readings at the Catholic Church’s I go to in Houston have changed back to Hail full of grace of late from highly favored. I think its because enough people griped about it though I have not searched out the reason. I don’t have time to research it but there is much error in the church due to Satan’s losing his power. He is very aggressive as can be seen in the homosexual attack on the Catholic church and daily child killing in the womb in the order of 3,000 per day.
peace,
mike
PS: I have come to realize Mary knew the angel was speaking to her as the mother of the Messiah (if she accepted, though he knew she would). Her question was not of doubt but was more to the point of the promised Messiah being announced. She knew if he said “virgin birth” that Iasaih’s prophecy was being realized and that she would be the mother of the Messiah. The problem we have in trying to figure out Mary is we use our own experience of life to discern. We have to think like a young girl committed to Virginity and living at the Temple where she learned much from the Holy people there. She knew about Iasaih and she knew from Simeone that the Messiah was coming to the earth very, very soon. The NAB changed “how shall this happen” to “how can this be” which goes from acceptance to doubt. This is why I say there are errors being placed in the bible and due to Protestant thinking. Protestants are our siblings but they have given away 5 of the 7 sacraments so watch out what they tell you as truth. We love them but we don’t follow their lead.
@mike shannon,
The errors in the Bible you highlight are not errors but satan’s handiwork behind the scenes to twist/change/alter the Word of God. The correct one is “Highly Favoured”. This depends on the source manuscripts of the Bible. There are manuscripts from Antioch (Syria) and Alexandria (Egypt). The Alexandrian Manuscripts are “highly doctored”. They are also called “Sinaticus” and “Vaticanus”. The Vaticanus manuscript mysteriously found its way into the Vatican, and it is the source manuscript that powers of Catholic Bibles which are “doctored” to fool catholics. The modern Bibles on the market like NIV, TNIV etc are highly corrupted with almost 350+ verses removed from the text. The same is with the NKJV which replaces the word “Hell” with “Hades”. For further understanding of the manuscript issue, go to http://www.scionofzion.com/vaticanus_sinaiticus.htm and God will surely enlighten you. I encourage Catholics to do a personal research to ascertain the truth. Don’t trust the destination of your soul in the hands of man-made teachings, but abide in the Word of God.
The KJV translators rejected the Vaticanus manuscript because it is highly corrupted, Only the KJV is the best, accurate and perfect translation. I believe that God has preserved his inerrant, inspired and perfect Word in the KJV for the English speaking World. I have verified the above facts myself AMEN.
DEAR ALL
I have gone through all from 1 to 1099 and learned most of the Christians are in pitiable state now.Jesus,as per the will of the most High, THE FATHER came to this dirty sinful land and to save all of us he shed even his last drop of blood and died.he did this for whole human kind.He fulfilled the will of father without an error.now we have to fulfill the desire of our SAVIOR with zealously.please do not take any chances. adamantly sticking to someones teaching and preaching will not help later when the time comes.read the Bible whenever you have free times.discuss it with broad minded people.do not criticize or condom others but try to make them understand it.Our JESUS Blood must not go in vain.
GOD Bless all.
The first mentioned of the Woman that we may extract from the scripture can be found in the Old Testament. (Gen.3:15): second, was in the New Testament; the event in the wedding in Cana, the crucifixion and lastly (Rev.12:1-5) “The Woman clothed with the sun…the Woman brought a male child into the world.†If we would not interpret this passage (Rev.12:1-5) “The woman brought a male child into the world, the son who was to rule all the nations with iron scepter and the child was taken straight up to God and to his throne. †and take its face value there is little explanation to be made. Hence the gospel of Luke, (Luke 1:26-38) had already explicitly told us who the child to be born: The parallelism to both passages is as clear as day light but dim to those who wittingly rejected it. These following passages may also support the two passages mentioned above: (Mt.1:23) “The virgin will conceive and give a son and they will call him Immanuel, a name which means ‘God- is-with- us’. This is the fulfillment of the prophecy made by Isaiah (Is.7:14-15); “The Lord himself, therefore, will give you a sign. It is this: the virgin is with child and will soon give birth to a son whom she will call Immanuel.†There were still several writings in the scripture pertain to the ‘Woman and Son’ that will cement the cause of one (Joeli & Sharon) defending very well their belief to the Mother of God. Here is one in Isaiah, (Is.9:5-7); “For there is a child born from us and dominion is laid on his shoulders; and this is the name they give him: Wonder-Counsellor, Mighty-God, Eternal-Father,Prince-of-Peace. Wide is his dominion in a peace that has no end, for the throne of David and for his royal power, which he establishes and make secure in justice and integrity. Another one, in the book of Micah;(Mi.5:1-3),â€But you, (Bethlehem) Ephrathah, the least of the clan of Judah, out of you will be born from me the one who is to rule over Israel; his origin goes back to the distant past, to the days of old. Yahweh therefore is going to abandon them till the time when she is to give birth gives birth. Then the remnants of his brothers will come back to the sons of Israel.†This passage was well supported in the gospel of Mathew; (Mt.2:6) “And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, you are by no means least among the leaders of Judah, for out of you will come leader who shepherd my people Israel.†The book of Isaiah is replete with prophesies of child birth; like this writing in Isaiah; (Is.66:7-13)â€Long before being in labour she has given birth. Before being taken by birth pangs, she has been delivered of a boy. Who ever heard of such a thing, who ever saw anything like this?â€â€¦maybe it is good to expound this passage before we continue to the succeeding passages because it ends with a question? There is something in this passage that is ‘unusual’ that needs deep understanding to arrive to a better conclusion. And the book of Isaiah supplied undeniable fact to who this passage pertain for; (Is.7;-14) “The Lord himself, therefore, will give you a sign. It is this: the virgin is with child and will soon give birth to a son whom she will call Immanuel. The gospel of Mathew likewise confirmed this prophecy; (Mt.1:22-23) “Now all this took place to fulfill the words spoken by the Lord through his prophets. The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son and they will call him Immanuel, a name which means God-is-with-us.†Now, what was the ‘unusual thing’ I am trying to portray? Isaiah makes a clear answer the virgin will give birth to a son. Even Mary the mother who will give birth was bothered the first time she heard of the message of the angel. Why? Because it is unusual for a virgin to have a child, the angel Gabriel had to explain and to convince her, (Luke2:38) “for nothing is impossible to God†and the final acceptance ensued; ‘I am the handmaid of the Lord, let what you have said be it done to me.†Even Joseph at first seems scandalize of the ‘unusual event’, imagine seeing his wife to be, already at the earlier stage of conception, decided to divorce her informally. To spare her of public humiliation, but the angel appeared to him in a dream and said; (Mt. 1:20) “Joseph Son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because she has conceived what is in her by the Holy Spirit…When Joseph woke up he did what the angel of the Lord told him to do…†The continuation of Isaiah (66:7-13)…Is a country born in one day? Is a nation brought forth all at once, that Zion only just in labour should bring forth sons? Am I to open the womb and not bring to birth? says Yahweh. Or I, who bring to birth, am I to close it? says your God.†This passage confirmed all the symbolical issue pertain to the “Womanâ€, and was well supported by the book of Ecclesiasticus;(Si.24:12-16) “Then the creator of all things instructed me, and he who created me fixed a place for my tent. He said fix your tent in Jacob, make Israel your inheritance. From eternity, in the beginning, he created me, I ministered before him in the holy tabernacle, and thus I was established on Zion. And in Jerusalem I wield my authority.†How sure are we that this passage pertain to the “Woman†we are speaking of? The answer was provided by the same chapter; (Si.24:1-5) “Wisdom speaks her own praises, in the midst of her people she glories in herself. She opens her mouth in the assembly of the Most High, she glories in herself in the presence of the Mighty One; I came forth from the mouth of the Most High, and I covered the earth like mist.†The personification had been clearly identified being a female by the used of the words; her and she in the passage, thus establishes the contention that may refer to a “Womanâ€. ‘continuation’… (Is.66:10) “Rejoice, Jerusalem, be glad for her, all of you who love her! Rejoice, rejoice for her, all of you who mourned her! That you may be suckled, filled, from her consoling breast, that you may savour with delight her glorious breast. For those says Yahweh: Now towards her I send flowing peace, like a river and like the stream in spate the glory of the nations. At her breast will her nurslings be carried and fondled in her lap. Like a son comforted by his mother will I comfort you. (And by Jerusalem you will be comforted.)†This statement has striking resemblance in the gospel of Luke, the salutation of the angel Gabriel; (Luke2:28) ‘Rejoice, so highly favoured! The Lord is with you.†But the very best evidence recorded in summing up Rev.12:1-5; Is.9:5-7; Is.7:14; Is.66:7-13; Mt.1:22-23; Mi.5:1-3; Mt.2:6; Lk.2:28-38; Lk.2:42; Lk.2:48; can be found in the book of Tobit: (Tb.13:11-14) “ A bright light shall shine over all the regions of the earth; many nations shall come from far away, from all the ends of the earth, to dwell close to the holy name of the Lord God, with gifts in their hands for the kingdom of heaven. Within you, generation after generation shall proclaim their joy, and the name of “Her†who is Elect shall endure through the generation to come.†Note (Is.66:12) has also resembled (Tb.13:14-16)â€Happy are those who love you, happy those who rejoice over your peace, happy are those who have mourned over all your punishment! For they soon rejoice within you, witnessing all your blessedness in days to come. My soul blesses the Lord the great King, because Jerusalem shall be built anew and his house forever and ever.†Consistently resembled the ‘Magnificat’ of our Lady; “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord and my spirit exults in God my savior…;â€
The “Woman†in Geneses
• The book of Geneses: here was the first instant the woman had been mentioned; (Gen.3:15) “I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed…†Based on the above passage, God will put enmity between the serpent’s seed and the woman’s seed. But let us first identify the serpent and the woman. From the book of Revelation, we all know that the serpent refers to Satan (Rev.20:2) “He overpowered the dragon, that primeval serpent which is the devil and Satan, and chained him up for a thousand years.†And who is the Woman? Is she Eve, the symbol of Jerusalem? We shall rely our answer in the scripture, where she was identified as the Mother of our Lord. (Lk.2:43)†Elizabeth said, Why should I be honoured with a visit from the Mother of my Lord?†The seed of the Woman aside from Jesus Christ are the adopted children of Mary represented by saint John at the foot of the cross: The word Woman used by the Lord in Gen.3:15 is consistently the same word used by him in John’s gospel (Jn.19:26-27) “seeing the disciple he loved standing near her, Jesus said to his Mother, Woman this is your son. Then to the disciple he said, this is your Mother. And from that moment the disciple made a place for her in his home.†The enmity between the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman continues to boil until now. The vicious attacked to our Lady by some quarters of faith evidently growing as have been proven in this website. May the Almighty God have mercy on their souls! The character assassination they hurled to our Lady is unbelievable; Timothy, (Tm.3:1-5) the disciple of our Lord had uncovered the character of these people. And warned us have nothing to do with people like that. Hence, the word of Christ: (Rev.22:10-15) “He said to me. Do not keep the prophecies in this book a secret, because the time is close. Meanwhile let the sinner go on sinning, and the unclean continue to be unclean; let those who do good go on doing good, and those who are holy continue to be holy. Very soon now, I shall be with you again, bringing the reward to be given to every man according to what he deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Happy are those who will have washed their robes clean so that they will have the right to feed on the “Tree of Life†and can come through the gates into the city. These others must stay outside; dogs, fortune tellers, and fornicators, and murderers and idolaters and every one of false speech and false life.†Now, who are the seeds of the serpent? Maybe there are the ones practicing false speech and the one admonishing us when we put in to practice our Hail Mary’s when we meditate the mysteries of the Holy Rosary! The mention of the “Tree of Life†in vv. Rev.22:14 is very essential so we may partake the Fruit that gives Life; I tell you solemnly, this was what the ‘Angelic Salutation’s’ true meaning “ Hail full of grace the Lord is with you†and Elizabeth proclamations when she was filled with the Holy Spirit: Blessed are you among women and Blessed is the Fruit of thy womb†Mary, by all means is the “Tree of Life†that bear fruit to have Life, meaning Jesus; Many preachers nowadays do not understand the “Tree of Life†but pretended they know. They claim that the “Tree of Life†is Jesus Christ. But the scripture says otherwise, they are totally ignorant of what they preach and know nothing especially of the Mother of our Lord. For in the scripture there are tree representations of Christ: Antichrist (1Jn.4:1-3), false Christ; (Mk.13:21-23), and the true Jesus Christ. Many preach about Jesus Christ but in reality, unwittingly, talk of the false Christ. Why? Because they fail to comprehend the “Tree of Life†whose Fruit is Life, the true Jesus Christ, who said He is the “Way, the Truth and the Life; (John14:6); The “Tree of Life†who bore in Her womb the Fruit of Life. Scripture mentioned those who may partake or eat of the “Fruit of the Tree of Life†; (Rev.2:7)â€He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches: Him who overcomes I will permit to eat of †The tree of Lifeâ€, which is in the paradise of my God.†Indeed, in the book of Geneses, there were several passages we can find about the “Tree of life.†Is this “Tree of Life†in the O.T are one and the same Tree mentioned in the N.T? Yes by all means!(Gen.2:9) :â€The Lord God made to grow out of the grounds all trees pleasant to the sight and good for food, the “Tree of Life†also in the midst of the garden, and Tree of the Knowledge of good and evil.†These two Trees had a symbolic meaning of their own. The “Tree of Life†as we have discussed above were glaringly represented by the Mother and a Son. The Tree to a Mother and the Fruit to a Son. Now, what about the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil? Well, scripture tells us, the serpent had influenced our first parent to eat on the fruit of that tree. The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil until now has many followers who partakes its fruit. We can speak lengthy of this tree but it is not my intention yet to discuss this matter at the moment. I am more interested about the “Tree of Life†who gives Life to those who know Her. In the book of Proverbs there were several passages pertain to the “Tree of Lifeâ€, and one of this can be found in,(Prov.3:13-18) “Happy the man who discovers wisdom, the man who gains discernment: gaining Her is more rewarding than silver, more profitable than gold. She is beyond the price of pearls, nothing that you could covet is Her equal. In Her right hand is length of days; in Her left hand riches and honour. Her ways are delightful ways, Her paths all lead to contentment. She is a “Tree of Life†for those who hold Her fast, those who cling to Her live happy lives. I shall reserve some thoughts about this “Tree of Life†for I know after this material introduction criticism follow, I just hope there are some who had been enlightened by these revelations. Now, we can focus to the remaining application of the “Woman†in (Gen.3:15) “I will make you enemies of each other; you and the ‘Woman’, your offspring and Her offspring. It will crush your head and you will strike its heel.†This passage (prophecy which God himself declared) has a great connection to the Book of Revelation (Rev.12:1-5), for what instances both passages are inter connected? The mere used of the word “Woman†being pregnant and later brought a child in to the world, the son who was to rule all nations with iron scepter; is no other than Jesus Christ! Anyone who deny this, that Jesus Christ is not born of a “Woman†and took the form of flesh is not from God but…( I do not wish to hurt your feelings!) I know there would be a howl of protest if I indicate every words to the completion of statement above, but I know all of you can read between the lines; The parallelism of the passages (REV.12:17) to (Gen.3:15) is more compelling and straight forward. “Then the dragon was enraged with the “Woman†and went away to make war on the rest of Her children, that is , all who obey God’s commandment and bear witness for Jesus.†And “I will make you enemies of each other; you and the “Womanâ€, your offspring and Her offspring. It will crush your head and you will strike its heel.†I shall pose few questions to tickle your gray cells and exercise your brain to help gain the Spirit of discernment. Which side do you want to be? To the seed of the serpent represented by Satan or to the seed of the “Woman†represented by the Mother of our Lord? Now, (I am referring to Jibson,babu and to Nathaniel) are these passages we laid down are not enough to convince you of the glories of Mary? Do you still want some proof? Geneses 3:15 have been actually revealed to us (Catholics) through St. Catherine Laboure in France in the year of the Lord 1830, “The Miraculous Medal†the form of the “Woman†standing upon the globe and under Her feet was the head of the serpent tells us everything the whole story and help us understand the true meaning of (Gen.3:15) and (Rev.12:1-17) you may object to this declaration because in your congregation you haven’t had the privilege to receive such manifestation. Why? Because you just openly dismissed Her. But to those who believe in Her and accept Her fully, wisdom resides. “Hold Her close, and she make you great, embrace her, and She will be your pride;†(Prov.4:8) Jesus I trust in you, “Oh Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to you!
very simple brothers and sisters,
(the Holy Spirit is closer than you imagined)
if they have ears let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN PURGATORY WILL GO THERE AFTER THEIR DEATH.
THOSE WHO DON’T WILL REACH HEAVEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.
THOSE WHO ARE FAITHFUL IN CHRIST IN THEIR LIVES, SHALL HAVE PEACE.
THOSE WHO DON’T ARE IN DEEP TROUBLE.
LET CHRIST WHO SITS ON THE THRONE JUDGE THEM, AND THEIR WORDS WHICH THEY SPEAK JUDGE THEM.
if you have burden for them
may you pray for them because WITHOUT CHRIST, we can NOT do anything!
and WITHOUT US, CHRIST will NOT do anything!!