Why should we pray to Virgin Mary? The reasons are many.
Why do Catholics pray to Mother Mary? Is Rosary really powerful?
The intercession of Mother Mary is very powerful as Jesus cannot neglect His mothers commands.This can be proved by the first miracle Jesus did at the wedding at Cana. – (John 2:1-11). Mother Mary told Jesus “They have no more wine.” And what was the final result? He turned water into wine.
In “The Poem of the Man-God” by Maria Valtorta, she says that Jesus told her about this incident as “I did it for Mary”. This proves that the intercession of Mother Mary is very very strong.
Mother Mary was blessed with Holy Spirit abundantly. We can see this as we read “At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” (Luke 1:39-41) ; just by Virgin Mary’s greeting.
Listen to the talk from Apologetics on Mary, Purgatory and The Bible
What the angels thought on this matter:-
When angel appeared before Zechariah,father of John, angel just greets him by his name ,nothing more although he was “upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commandments and regulations blamelessly.” – (Luke 1:6)
When angel appeared before Joseph, the greeting was like this: “an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” – (Matthew 1:20). Angel greeted him ‘son of david’, thats all.
Now let us see how did the angel greet Virgin Mary. It goes like this: “The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” (Luke 1:28). See the difference….
Also read the article Mary, The Mystical Rose
Hi Liam
The trouble is that what you call water is poison and what you call truth is just RC Dogma.
Jesus is not my brother, Mary is not my mother.
Thomas addressed Jesus as “My Lord and My God” not “my brother”. Nobody in the NT ever addressed Jesus as “my brother”.
You may not doubt it but God condemns it, Jesus instructs against it and Paul calls it false.
Jesus said we should pray to Our Father, not our mother. Paul teaches us to make our requests “known to God” not to Mary. God Almighty says that we must not make idols nor bow down to them nor pray to them.
There is not one single NT scripture that indicates that we should do what the RC says we should. How can we be imitating God if we worship Mary? Mary worshipped God not the other way round.
I pray that you will break free from this deception and stop venerating the donkey rather than the rider.
Phil
Jesus, as implied in your last comment, taught a prayer to his followers and it begins-‘Our Father’.That Father is also the Father of Jesus.If persons have the same Father they are brothers and sisters.Thus Jesus is Our Brother being divine and human.Divinity from God the Father and humanity from the Blessed Virgin.In fact,Phil, you are my brother.
By denying Jesus as your brother you are denying God as your Father.But then again your frequent attacks on Mary fits in with your satanic influenced comments.For only satan would hold such demonic opinion.Especially referring to the Mother of Jesus as a ‘donkey’.
I now pray for you….
You cannot oppose satan through me silly boy.
That we are adopted sons makes us adopted sons, it doesn’t make us brothers to the unique Son of God. The catechism will confirm that I am right :-)
I didn’t refer to Mary as a donkey, I used the donkey as an illustrative point. The donkey carried Jesus but the donkey was honoured by that act not because of something worthy about the donkey.
Phil
Well Said Phil.
1 Corinthians 1:8
The language of the cross remains nonsense for those who are lost.
Only God can open their eyes. In their mind ONLY Mother and Rosary. no father and son.
Rgds
The Bible confirms that Jesus established ONE Church.Babu and Phil are not members of it therefore they are admitting that they are heretics.
I wonder do they share membership in the same so called Christian denomination and if not – why not?
Now,in the rich doctrine of the Mystical Body according to Paul(cf.Col 1:18,Eph 4:15), Christ is the Head of the Body,and the Catholic Church is the Body of Christ.Mary,then,in conceiving Jesus,the Head of the Mystical Body,also conceived all the faithful since as followers we are all members of the same Body.In giving birth to the Head Mary also gave birth to the Body,the Church.So,Mary,in giving physical birth to Jesus made it possible for His members to receive spiritual life through Jesus.It is for this reason that Mary is our true “Spiritual Mother”.
Liam
Jesus established one church and many churches (just as your RC theologians will tell you). There is one church (the church invisible) which contains all Christians and there are various visible assemblies of Christians.
That there was never Roman or Petrine oversight of the churches visible from the NT because at no point is Peter ever used as a point of authority or said to be head over any church let alone all the churches.
Indeed when the churches squabbled none of them claimed to be a petrine Christian.
Of course your organisation claims that I am a heretic but then it is itself heretical so I guess it has to.
If the Church of Christ is the RCC then could you explain why it is a whore that sits on 7 hills and not a bride?
Phil
The Catholic Church is indeed the body of Christ and the bride of Christ.
The RCC on the other hand is a whore that sits on 7 hills and drinks the blood of the saints.
The Popes are antiChrist, wicked men who teach that they are god on earth. I spit on them and their wicked lies.
phil
This is it. now i get the whole point of you people opposing the Catholic Church. till this point you people misinterpret Bible History and now you misinterpret the Future as well. if you don’t stop this direct attack on the Catholic Church you will surly face the Wrath of The Almighty. It was THE HOLY SPIRIT who instigated the Church, ill-treating the Church is ill-treating the SPIRIT HIMSELF and you are going to pay of this.
I don’t oppose the Catholic Church, I oppose the Romish church. Even the Pope doesn’t think that the Universal Church only contains Roman Catholics. Well this one doesn’t, in the past other Popes have said and taught differently.
Ill treating Christians is an attack on Christ (not the Holy Spirit) have you not read Paul’s conversation with Jesus?
Almighty God won’t be angry with me for attacking wickedness where it exists.
Threaten away you silly chap I have no fear of the hollow and childish threats of those enslaved in the cult of Rome.
Well said Phil.
Dear George,
What you are taking about “Wrath of The Almighty”. LOL…
dear friend read Book of revelation.then you will come to know who is going to face Wrath of The Almighty
God bless you
Phil,You have just put your foot in it!
You are far removed from the sincere and decent members of the Protestant denominations who contribute and read this part of a wonderful Christian site.In fact you are a disgrace to the denominations but I still love you and am praying for you.
Recall Jesus stated to Peter “…my church…”-not churches. Being allegedly Bible based you appear to lack an understanding of the inspired written word.
Also you are lacking in knowledge for there are few of my contributions that you have answered or as in the recent matters your contributions are very unchristian.For Our Saviour stated “By this shall all men know that you are my followers that you have love one for another”.What you expressed recently was from the mouth of satan for there was no love.All contrary to God for God is love!!!
Peter never worshipped Mother Mary
Peter never used Rosary
Peter never used Scapular
Peter never made idols
Peter never confessed to the priests
Peter was a married man
Peter never baptized infants
Peter never worshipped the bread
Dear Catholics open the Bible and find out the truth
Jesus going to judge us based on his words . not on the basis of RCC theory.
God bless you all
Phil,
As God’s representative on earth it is the Pope’s desire to bring all of you into communion with the Church of Jesus,that is,the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC ROMAN CHURCH.That is God’s will for Jesus prayed that you and I maybe ONE.He did not pray for splintering his body.Those of your ancestors who left Christ’s Church aeons ago were poor victims of satanic intrigue.The church led by the Pope extends back thousands of years to when it was established by Jesus.Due to the historic plantation of the church in Rome in due course the latter fact is a weak means of argueing your point.
Popes have not said differently about important matters because this would be contrary to the guarantee given by Jesus that the Holy Spirit would guide it at all times and inspite of the ongoing attacke by satan-‘the gates of hell shall not prevail against it’.
Liam – The Pope isn’t God’s representative on earth.
The organisation now ruled by the Pope dates to the mid 1800’s when it’s last dogma was added. But there was never a universal church ruled from Rome until a Roman Emperor took control of the Roman organisation and killed veryone who opposed him. The organisation you belong to was founded in the blood of Christians.
Oh and Peter was NEVER told he was the church. There isn’t any scripture that says it because it isn’t true.
Neither was Peter the rock to which Christ refered – I can quote you the Fathers to prove that you have a false doctrine if you wish? So neither the scriptures, nor the tradition of the church make Peter or any supposed successor the head of the church. Jesus is the head of the church and the church is his body.
The church doesn’t have 2 heads, just one and that is a heavenly one. It doesn’t have an earthly head because we don’t need a king or ruler other than God. You, like the Israelites, have chosen to subject yourselves to an earhtly ruler when God says not to.
Phil
Babu,
How do you know ? Where you in the company of the 1st Pope at that time.Even Jesus was baptised by John – the Baptist.When I was conceived I bore the stain of the sin of our 1st parents and I was baptised to remove any trace of sin.
Were you not?Are you still carry the sin of Adam and Eve?
Phil,(820)
Those with knowledge such as historians must be having a fantastic laugh at your expense.The so called organisation of which I am a member began in the mid 1800,s according to You.If so, then how does Luther break from the Catholic Church around approximately 200 years before and formed the Luthern Church?Or are you implying that Luther,a Catholic Priest,broke from another so called church?What was its name?
What about Matt.16:18-19-“I for my part declare to you,you are ‘Rock’, and on this rock I will build my church,and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it,I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven;whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven”.
Yes,Phil,the truth is the truth and I express it for unlike yourself I am not in the clutches of the father of lies- satan.
Please contact a Catholic Priest for you are on a very dangerious path.
Listen my brothers ans sisters, With all due respect Jesus made it clear that he is the only way to the father, no Mary Joseph but in the name of Jesus, our prayers are only delivered to God through Jesus, we should not pray to Mary but to God through Jesus Christ ,he is the only way to the father.
Fellow Christians
+
Any Christian who takes the Scriptures seriously will meet the Mother of Jesus there.
She who was near the cross of her Son on Calvary,she who was at the marriage feast of Cana with its symbolism of ONE CHURCH AND IT UNITED.The virgin who was committed to God then and in our messianic times of today.And recall her words at the Annunciation,so like a phrase of the Our Father,”Behold the handmaid of the Lord;be it done unto me according to ‘your’Word.” Anyone considering these facts from The Bible,if objective,can appreciate that the Mother of Jesus has ‘one will’with her Son and shares his prayer at the Last Supper,”Father,I will them to be with me whom you have given me,” his prayer for Christian unity.
I know that as a Catholic I can at times be very polemic at my advocacy and love of her but that is my faith.She is not to be adored but venerated.Now Jesus came to us through Mary but we go to God-Our Father through Jesus by the grace of their Spirit.But underlying that is the reality of Mary’s ‘YES’which was freely given to Our Creator via Gabriel.
In relation to Christian disagreements re Mary and her role in the Church of her Son I believe that alongside satanic intrigue and mis-understandings arising from various persons of the reformation period a common patrimony has been lost.And, in time, I believe that the Mother of God will become a factor of unity for unity is the wish of the one and only God.
well said Stevans #821
Matt.16:18-19-â€I for my part declare to you,you are ‘Rock’, and on this rock I will build my church,
Based on the above verse we think Peter is the rock. Now let’s see the scripture carefully who is the rock.
Genesis 49:24 but his bow remained steady, and his arms nimble, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob; because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel;
In the above who is Jacob’s rock ? Peter or God/Jesus?
2 Samuel 22:3 and my God, the rock in whom I take refuge.
Psalm 31:3 Give heed to my plea, and make haste to rescue me. Be a rock of refuge for me, a strong fortress for my safety.
In the above verses who is David’s rock? NOT Peter?
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, and perfect are all his works, just are all his ways.
In the above verse who is Moses’s rock? NOT Peter
Isaiah 8:14
He will be a sanctuary and at the same time a stumbling-stone, the rock that brings down, for both houses of Israel.
In the above verse who is Isaiah’s rock ? NOT Peter
See what Paul said
1 Corinthians 3:11 – No one can lay a foundation other than the one which is already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
So who is the rock and foundation? NOT Peter
See what Peter said
1 Peter 2:6 Scripture says: See, I lay in Zion a chosen and precious cornerstone; whoever believes in him will not be disappointed.
Peter himself saying he is the NOT the rock.
Finally
John 2:19 And Jesus said, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.”
Jesus refers “this temple” here. Who is the temple here? Jesus or the building?
Same way Jesus mentioned “this rock ” in Mathew. From the above i am 100 % sure the rock is NOT Peter.
Regards
@Liam #820
you are pointing this verse to prove that Peter is the rock and he got the keys.Matt.16:18-19-â€I for my part declare to you,you are ‘Rock’, and on this rock I will build my church, and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it, I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heavenâ€.
Now after 2 chapter ( Mathew 18:18)Jesus giving the same authority to everyone. Also read John 20:23
Now let’s see who got the keys in Scripture
Isaiah 22:22
Upon his shoulder I will place the key of the House of David: what he opens, no one shall shut; what he shuts, no one shall open.
Revelation 1:18
and mine are the keys of death and the netherworld.
Revelation 3:7
“Thus says he who is holy and true, who holds the key of David; if he opens, nobody shuts and if he shuts nobody opens.
Peter clearly saying he is the not the head of the church
1 Peter 5:1 I now address myself to those elders among you; I, too, am an elder and a witness to the sufferings of Christ, hoping to share the Glory which is to be revealed.
dear Liam open the bible and follow the living Jesus… not dead people
God bless you
Rgds
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Jesus Christ
What a kind of people you are. Who ever opposing the catholic church please listen, this is not the worldly matters always fighting like this,See dear brothers You and I believe in Jesus after 2000 years, He came to this world he lived a miraculous life he did more miracles he died for our sins, on third day he raised from death and on 40th day he Ascended to Heaven and he got all the Power from the ALL-MIGHTY Father and from there he ruling the kingdom after all this we are believing in him we are telling he is our GOD, but think in other wise when Mother Mary accepted him in those days where the Judaism were there that time if a woman conceived before marriage means they will stoning on her and they will kill her in that time itself she believed in the word of GOD and surrendered herself to the will of GOD. It is not that much of easy that what we are sitting today in front of computer and arguing about her just imagine when she was somewhere she is 12 -14 year young girl when she surrendered herself to God’s will to save these world from the sin. for her we are giving some respect through showing love on her from our heart you people are opposing for this please think in general all ways don’t look in scripture itself in the BIBLE itself it is written that what ever it is there in the BIBLE is only that much which is required to know the love of GOD AND TO SAVE OURSELVES apart from this Jesus did many things.I am not telling that to reject the BIBLE it is everything for us apart from this we also have some love for the saints and others who lived for the church.
@ jibson
then who do you think the Rock is. don’t compare verses that doesn’t have any direct relation Jesus told about destroying the temple was His body of the Holy Spirit, it was His body that they destroyed it, and on the third day He built it up again. it was to foretell His Death and Resurrection, that has nothing to do with Jesus’ deceleration to St. Peter. no pope has ever boated themselves of there authority, it is the humbleness and meekness that the Holy Spirit gives His true servants. what right do you have to talk about those holy and chosen Shepherd you sinful fool.
Babu,827,
As quoted our God-man and Saviour very clearly stated that Peter was to be the basis of his Church and its 1st leader or father.Peter was also known as ‘Cephas’which in English is ‘rock’. In due course the successors of St.Peter called themselves ‘Popes’- which in English means ‘Father’.That is the Word of God’s statement to Peter which you have tried to make irrelevant.And in doing so you concoct an untruth by using the Holy Word of God.
By his statement when he laid the basis for the Catholic Church Our Lord requested that as believers that we submit to the same divine authority,that of Christ the Head,who rules the Body through the visible head,our Holy Father the Pope,and the Bishops who are in communion with him.
You refer in your contribution to ‘dead people’but those who die in Christ rise in Christ.That is biblically and traditionally based.
In Matt 18-18 (which you quote) the Church has already come into being and Jesus is emphasising the importance of the Church which he based upon Peter ie ‘…tell it to the church;'(18-17).And remember ‘church’ not ‘churches’.
Was Peter the rock upon which the church was built?
What do the Fathers say? They don’t teach that Peter was superior to the other apostles or that Peter was the only rock upon which the church was built or indeed thay the position of Peter was passed to anyone.
Here are a few quotes from the Fathers to show that what the RCC teaches is utterly contrary to what they taught.
Tertullian
If, because the Lord has said to Peter, ‘Upon this rock I will build My Church,’ ‘to thee have I given the keys of the heavenly kingdom;’ or, ‘Whatsoever thou shalt have bound or loosed in earth, shall be bound or loosed in the heavens,’ you therefore presume that the power of binding and loosing has derived to you, that is, to every Church akin to Peter, what sort of man are you, subverting and wholly changing the manifest intention of the Lord, conferring (as that intention did) this (gift) personally upon Peter? ‘On thee,’ He says, ‘will I build My church;’ and, ‘I will give thee the keys’…and, ‘Whatsoever thou shalt have loosed or bound’…In (Peter) himself the Church was reared; that is, through (Peter) himself; (Peter) himself essayed the key; you see what key: ‘Men of Israel, let what I say sink into your ears: Jesus the Nazarene, a man destined by God for you,’ and so forth. (Peter) himself, therefore, was the first to unbar, in Christ’s baptism, the entrance to the heavenly kingdom, in which kingdom are ‘loosed’ the sins that were beforetime ‘bound;’ and those which have not been ‘loosed’ are ‘bound,’ in accordance with true salvation…
Origen
And if we too have said like Peter, ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,’ not as if flesh and blood had revealed it unto us, but by the light from the Father in heaven having shone in our heart, we become a Peter, and to us there might be said by the Word, ‘Thou art Peter,’ etc. For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, and upon every such rock is built every word of the Church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.
But if you suppose that upon the one Peter only the whole church is built by God, what would you say about John the son of thunder or each one of the Apostles? Shall we otherwise dare to say, that against Peter in particular the gates of Hades shall not prevail, but that they shall prevail against the other Apostles and the perfect? Does not the saying previously made, ‘The gates of Hades shall not prevail against it,’ hold in regard to all and in the case of each of them? And also the saying, ‘Upon this rock I will build My Church?’ Are the keys of the kingdom of heaven given by the Lord to Peter only, and will no other of the blessed receive them? But if this promise, ‘I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven,’ be common to others, how shall not all things previously spoken of, and the things which are subjoined as having been addressed to Peter, be common to them?
‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ If any one says this to Him…he will obtain the things that were spoken according to the letter of the Gospel to that Peter, but, as the spirit of the Gospel teaches to every one who becomes such as that Peter was. For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters…And to all such the saying of the Savior might be spoken, ‘Thou art Peter’ etc., down to the words, ‘prevail against it.’ But what is the it? Is it the rock upon which Christ builds the Church, or is it the Church? For the phrase is ambiguous. Or is it as if the rock and the Church were one and the same? This I think to be true; for neither against the rock on which Christ builds His Church, nor against the Church will the gates of Hades prevail. Now, if the gates of Hades prevail against any one, such an one cannot be a rock upon which the Christ builds the Church, nor the Church built by Jesus upon the rock.
Now those 2 Fathers are often misquoted, or partially quoted, as if they taught what the Romish church teaches but clearly once one reads what they wrote one sees that they are entirely opposed to the Romish View.
What then do Roman Catholic Historians say? Do they agree with me or Rome?
Robert B Eno
“It is clear that in Cyprian’s mind…one theological conclusion he does not draw is that the bishop of Rome has authority which is superior to that of the African bishops.”
Another RC Historian
Cyprian used the Petrine text of Matthew to defend episcopal authority, but many later theologians, influenced by the papal connexions of the text, have interpreted Cyprian in a propapal sense which was alien to his thought…Cyprian would have used Matthew 16 to defend the authority of any bishop, but since he happened to employ it for the sake of the Bishop of Rome, it created the impression that he understood it as referring to papal authority…Catholics as well as Protestants are now generally agreed that Cyprian did not attribute a superior authority to Peter (Michael Winter, St. Peter and the Popes (Baltimore: Helikon, 1960), pp. 47-48).
There is only one mediator that is our Lord JESUS Christ.Praying to Mary is absolutely foolishness.Mary was just a member of Jerusalem Church and witness of the coming of the Holy Spirit. She also worshiped Jesus. In the Church history clearly revealed that pray to Mary started after 300 AD by foolish priests
I hope William, Liam got answer from #828
@george- I think you didn’t read my reply. you still confused who is the Rock in scripture?
So you think Jacob’s, Isaiah’s, Moses’s ,Hanna’s,David’s,Paul’s rock is Peter???? LOL
Open your bible man…..read, don’t waste your time to kneel in front of sinful priests. Take time to find out the only mediator in bible.
Even if 2 billion believe in one lie that will never become a truth, same way if no one believe in a truth that still a truth only. as Wilson said #829
One God and One mediator. There is no multiple mediators.in this forum starting from #699 I am asking Catholics to show me ONE ( only one )verse saying mother mary is our mediator.
Can anyone show me that verse?
If you don’t have answer in Bible then it’s man-made/Vatican made! Don’t follow Rome follow Jesus.
Rgds
Phil (and Wilson),
Listen to what Holy Scripture states not commentators on the Scriptures.It is there in black and white.Don’t manipulate the contents of the Bible to back up your prejudice positions.
Be logical! Jesus referred to ‘one Church’ and people of your mind-set have established thousands of denominations and some of their founders claim that their denomination is the church Jesus established at the beginning.But if so why are there so many? Why are there so much division and disagreement amongst the protestant denominations?Even to the extent of Bible interpretation!
Are you a member of ‘a church’,Phil? Please let us know and if so is it Prebysterian,Lutheran or, what ever?
To conclude,why should there be so much division amongst those of the so called ‘reformed’ denominations.Could it be a result of satanic intrigue in its war against Christ and therefore his Church which today is led by Pope Benedict.Christ’s representative who sincerely desires the return of all believers in Christ from outside the Church which he established so there can be one fold and one Shepherd.
thnx alot to the site owner…amazing pics…especially of Mother Mary…Thnx again…God Bless
Liam lol
Logic is the last refuge of the confused.
Yes Christ established “one church, so which church was it? Acts 15 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.” Was it one of those? all of them?
Acts 18 “And when he had landed at Caesarea, and gone up, and saluted the church, he went down to Antioch.” That one? etc etc
Clearly when the bible talks about a church it means a) A local gathering of Christians (as in “Likewise greet the church that is in their house.”) or b) The whole invisible church which consists of all Christians.
So do I belong to a church? Yes? The Church? Yes. Do I think that the RCC or the Othodox or anyone else can claim to be “The Only Church”? Of course not since the bible tells us that is just stupidity.
As for 1,000s of denominations lol There aren’t thousands of denominations. The reason is simple because most protestants don’t belong to “a denomination” they just belong to the local church.
As for divisions and disagreements
1) Those have existed since bible times
2) The RCC also has them
3) There will always be wolves in sheeps clothing
So what was your point?
Do tell me though how is it possible to be a proper RC one day, perfectly right with God etc and then a heretic the next day even though one hasn’t changed one’s opinions or views on anything?
Shall I tell you?
On Dec 7th 1854 a Roman Catholic could believe that Mary was a born sinner like all other human beings and he was orthodox and ok, but on Dec 8th he became a heretic and therefore cast out from the church and unable to recieve communion or have his prayers heard.
Until 1826 the Inquisition was still murdering so called heretics.
1)read your bible
2)read your history
Now tell me where most heresies arose
1) Inside the leadership (priesthood)?
or
2) Among the laity?
Now tell me why you slavishly follow priests?
Phil
The first historic indications of the existing veneration of Mary carried on from the apostolic era of the Church established upon Peter is present in the Roman catacombs.As early as the end of the 1st century to the 1st half of the 2nd century Mary is depicted in many frescoes with and without her divine son.
A very significant one in the catacombs of St.Agnes is Mary depicted between St.Peter and St.Paul with her arms outstretched to both.This illustrates the recognisation by the Church in its apostolic phase of the maternal centrality of Jesus mother in the early years of his church.
The most complete ancient PRAYER to Mary is preserved in the ‘Sub Tuum Praisidium’,which means ‘Under Your Protection’.It is dated 250 AD.Please note the depth of understanding by the 3rd century Church of Mary as having the power to intercede for spiritual protection:
WE FLY TO YOUR PROTECTION,
O HOLY MOTHER OF GOD,
DESPISE NOT OUR PETITIONS
IN OUR NECESSITIES,
BUT DELIVER US FROM ALL DANGERS.
O EVER GLORIOUS AND BLESSED VIRGIN
Phil,
We are all sinners that is why Jesus came to save us but because of satanic sin any one can do what happened evilly throughout the history of the human race and indeed the history of Christianity.That is why Jesus established the Catholic Priesthood-‘whose sins you shall forgive thay are forgiven,whose sins you shall retain they are retained’.
The Catholic Church is an assembly of persons which can be seen and counted.It is a world-wide organisation and a divine reality.A people united by the Holy Spirit dwelling in our hearts.A church which the Word of God made man established and guaranteed its continuing existence via the sending of the Spirit in his absence.But the fact to be recognised is that this side of the grave we are prone to sin and there have been many sinful Catholics (yours truly) from Popes,etc,.
For 3 years Jesus travelled and spoke of the Good News of The Kingdom while gathering around him a small group both male and female whom he instructed.They were the nucleus of the new people of God.And from them the chose 12 to be the leaders of his Church which he founded upon their leader Peter.Yes, Peter and the other 11 were given positions of authority and there is no doubt via the Bible and Tradition Peter was the leader.
Liam
So 250 years or so after Jesus some folks were already worshipping Mary. That would make it right how exactly?
Less than that after the founding of the church all manner of heresies were abroad and Paul and others had to fight them.
That you would discard the bible in favour of a hymn whose author you do not know says much of how desperate you are to support this silly idea.
Phil
Sin is not satanic, sin is fleshly. People do not sin because of satan – he can only tempt you.
Jesus didn’t establish the priesthood and he certainly didn’t establish it to prevent heresy since almost all heresy comes from priests.
Jesus didn’t choose 12 to be leaders of the church. Judas, for one, was not chosen for that reason. Neither are many of the apostles mentioned outside of the gospels.
The Apostles were sent (that being what apostle means) to establish the church in the world. They were the first evangelists and even in the beginning they were unwilling to go when Jesus told them to. Peter was rebuked for his hypocrisy with regard to gentiles and at the time all of the apostles were still in Jerusalem!!! The church in Jerusalem was headed up by James, not Peter.
Because the 11 Apostles would not follow the command to go in to all the world Jesus chose another man (Paul) to establish the gospel outside of Israel.
So the earliest heresies and false practices emerged in the Jerusalem Church despite the 11 Apostles being there and it was almost always leaders in a church that caused divisions and disorder.
The RC Church is worldwide but so is HSBC Bank. Being worldwide and recignised only matters if you are recognised as being like Jesus.
Is the RCC like Jesus? mmm Palaces, Heirarchies (when Jesus said we are all brothers) calling other men “Father” when Jesus forbade it etc etc. So the RCC is not at al like Jesus, it is rich where there is poverty and even richer where there is none. It hoards wealth and exercises power over millions both politically and religiously.
Does history show that the RCC has acted in a Christian manner? It has started and funded and encouraged war, it has persecuted the poor, Christians, Jews, etc etc and been corrupt and propgated lies, murder and wickedness.
Still you say that this is “The Church” that Jesus established. Yet clearly the gates of hell have prevailed against Rome since it does all manner of sin, it makes idols and bows down to them, it teaches superstitions and tells men that the its traditions are superior to the scriptures.
So there are 2 churches in the NT the true church and the false church. One is full of sin and wickedness, having a form of holiness and the other is the remnant, the few that have found the narrow way and who walk humbly with God.
I have yet to see any himility in the RCC, just sin and wickedness and pride and murder.
If Jesus suddenly appeared and became Pope (after all the Pope is his stand in according to you) do you think the RCC would keep it’s wealth and power and continue as it is? Of course not it would change radically, it would turn 180 degrees and start to give and love instead of taking and despising.
well said Phil
oh my God Liam….. open the Bible and follow Jesus.
Queen of heaven mentioned in bible only 5 times. That queen is a pagan god. Now RC worshipping that pagan God but with a different name!
God going to judge us based on Jesus’s words ( NOT BASED ON VATICAN’S THEORY)
Romans 2:16 according to my gospel, will judge people’s secret actions in the person of Jesus Christ.
John 2:48 the very word I have spoken will condemn him on the last day.
So please open the bible.. dear Liam, George and whoever believe Catholic theology and follow Jesus
Rgds
by the marcy of GOD pls guys i ask you to come back and open the bible cuz thats the way we should have to wolk . cuz the word of GOD is our light our way and the trueth which leads us to life .any means of books except bible are fiction leading us to death !!!!!!!!!!!!! am quite sure that you can not pick single verse tolking about the issue select ,but jesus said i am the way the trueth the life .and he is our high preist advocating on behaive of us
amen pls get the right way and pure word of GOD .avoid human words cuz they are going to accelerate you towords darkness
my GOD bless you and open the eye of ur heart
Phil,
To answer your 1st question it is ‘right’ and correct for the Church founded by Jesus then, and now, to support it within the context that ‘the gates of hell shall not prevail against it’.In other words what the Church of Christ teaches is the truth and inspired by the Holy Spirit who is constantly with it as guaranteed by Jesus.Please read the Bible without an unloving and anti-Catholic frame of mind.
Also, as stated by you and others,we Catholics do not worship Mary- the word is ‘venerate’.There is a difference but perhaps ‘grammar’ is not your forte.
You use the words ‘a silly idea’- well by implication you are accusing Our Saviour.For to acknowledge the role of Mary in the life of her Son,then and now,is what a God who is ‘Love’would do.
Like many who suffer from the addiction of believing solely in their personal interpretation of the Scriptures aside from the authority given to the Church via Peter by Jesus in order to ensure that his will and truth would prevail you Phil are one of the latter.
Yes,the Catholic Church since its beginning has had to confront many heresies including those conveyed to this debate by persons like yourself.It will continue to do so for Jesus,Our Saviour,guarantees it.May God bless you!
Liam
What the Church teaches is truth but what the RCC teaches is a mixture of truth and heresy.
You do indeed worship Mary, you call her your Queen and make idols of her and bow down before them. Worship means “to bow down before” as one does to a Ruler.
Here is a simple question that even a deluded RC should be able to answer.
Who (apart from Jesus) is the greatest person that has ever lived?
Surely the greatest human that ever lived is worthy of as much “veneration” as any other human?
Surely the greatest human that ever lived would be a person we could all venerate?
Jesus said that John the Baptist was the greatest human that ever lived. Matt 11:11
But you don’t care what Jesus said do you? You ignore what he says and say that Mary is the greatest. Because the RCC is right and Jesus is wrong.
My understanding of scripture fits with the scriptures, fits with the Fathers (unlike yours) and fits with several Popes.
The problem you have is that if tomorrow the Pope says that eating fish is evil and pollutes your soul you must either believe it or become a heretic.
I, on the other hand, will laugh at it and carry on following Jesus. The Jesus who said that John the Baptist was the greatest human ever born, the Jesus who said that his mother was anyone who did the will of God.
You can follow the Popes to hell if you so desire.
The trouble with RC is that they are such a bunch of dumb asses that they think that the early church was run by Peter (it wasn’t), that Peter was the first Pope (he wasn’t), that Mary is the Queen of Heaven and spouse of the Holy Spirit.
Mary wasn’t even worthy to tie the shoelaces of Jesus. After all the greatest human that ever lived said he wasnt!!!
Phil
The following is Our Lady of Medjugorje’s October 25, 2011 monthly message for the world:
“Dear children! I am looking at you and in your hearts I do not see joy. Today I desire to give you the joy of the Risen One, that He may lead you and embrace you with His love and tenderness. I love you and I am praying for your conversion without ceasing before my Son Jesus. Thank you for having responded to my call.”
Well said Phil,
@Liam…. you there? LOL
You know Phil I think the best verse for them is
1 Corinthians 1:8
The language of the cross remains nonsense for those who are lost.
Rgds
Babu is now judging me which is contrary to the Commandments of God:’Judge not and you shall not be judged…’.It is not the first time.
The venom from Phil and Babu is ‘love-less’ therefore logically it is God-less.Of course Phil does not believe in logic. Thus where ‘love’ does not exist satan does.Well, both of my brothers, if that is the case, are welcome to their bed companion.
There is another commandment ‘Honour thy father and thy mother’:I honour Mary for she is a mother to me for Jesus is my Brother just as His Father is my Father.As for my earthly parents I look forward when my course in this life is over to share the life of The Trinity along with them and our spiritual mother, Mary.Indeed with all lovers of Christ.And I am forever grateful to my natural mother and father for getting me baptised into the only Church of Christ via the Catholic Priesthood.
In conclusion, our two brothers apparently are attacking the Word of God for their attitude towards God’s Mother is extremely contrary to the ‘Blessed art thou amongst women’and generations will refer to me as ‘blessed’.
Phil,
The source of sin is satan therefore it is satanic.We would not be in the mess we are if the 1st two humans had not listened to him.
AS for the ‘priesthood’.A priest is a “man of God”(2 Tim.3:17).It is God alone who chooses him-“No man takes the honour to himself;he takes it who is called by God,as Aaron was”(Heb.5:4).God sets him apart from everyone else “to preach the Gospel of God”(Rom.1:1).God signs him with a sacred character that will endure for ever,making him “a priest forever”(Heb.5:6)and bestowing on him the supernatural powers of the ministerial priesthood so that he is consecrated exclusively for the things of God.The priest, being “taken from among men,is ordained for men in the things that appertain to God,that he may offer up gifts and sacrifices for sins”(Heb.5:1-2).
Priests,and history records the sins of many of them,are duty bound to make themselves like Jesus.It is by thus making himself like Jesus that he is”minister of Christ Jesus among the Gentiles”(Rom.15:16), “a guide and instructor of souls”(Mt.28:20).
St.Francis of Assisi was unwilling to be a priest for he thought that he was unworthy.But he honoured priests for in them he saw only “the Son of God”.
Phil,(845)
Are you saying that those who bow before the Queen of England are worshipping her?
Liam
No venom has come your way from me so please stop lying, that is a sin. However you and your Romish friends have called me satanic on several occasions.
I have plenty of hatred for the RCC because it has killed and mislead Christians for centuries.
The commandment to honour your mother and father was part of the Mosaic Law and ceased to operate when that covenant ended.
Mary isn’t my mother, she isn’t your mother although she was the mother of Jesus.
However when he ascended to heaven he broke the mother/son bond by declaring that she was to be the mother of someone else and that someone was to be her son instead of him.
Who is Mary’s son? Not Jesus because he expressly said he wasn’t.
That you don’t think it odd that despite all the things you say about this church of yours neither Jesus nor any of the Apostles ever identified it either directly or by prophecy.
Phil,
What Our Lord says about John- The Baptist- you again misconstrue in order to attack his most blessed and saintly virgin Mother as well as his Church.
Please read it again :”I tell you the truth:Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he”.Phil,he who is ‘least’ in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John-the Baptist.If there is any one deluded what you state in your writings confirms who it is.I pray for you through the Immaculate Heart of Our Mother Mary.I know she will help you.
And may I say that as a member of the Church of Christ I venerate John as I do all saints and blessed in the Communion of Saints.Also inspite of satanic lies we do not adore photos,paintings,statues,etc,.They serve the same purpose as a family photo on an office desk,or a statue of a public hero or statesman erected in a town square.
To repeat:there is a difference between adoration (latria) and veneration (dulia).Adoration is due to God,alone, but we venerate Mary and the saints because of their unique love and service of Our Lord.And in a sense we could use the word exceptional veneration (hyperdulia)to the Mother of Our Saviour because of her unique association with Jesus in His work of redeeming us.
I am not attacking his mother, or anyone else.
What I am doing is telling you what Jesus said while Mary was alive. John the Baptist was greater than she while he was on this earth – simple truth!
Whatever you bow down before you are worshipping. You can call it anything you like but you are worshipping it.
Ex 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other…
The word means to bow down before, same throughout the OT.
NT Now “Worship”
1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
1) to the Jewish high priests
2) to God
3) to Christ
4) to heavenly beings
5) to demons
You make and bow down before idols in the RCC. You worship the Pope.
I have yet to see anything resembling the worship given to Mary being given to John the Baptist and yet before his death he was greater than Mary. What makes you imagine that Mary got greater after John died?
You worship Mary by bringing Christ down. Suddenly he is hardly greater than she. She is Queen of Heaven, Mediatrix, Co Redeemer etc etc
You will pay for such blaspemies when you meet the Lord.
YOu say Jesus is angry with you and you need to go to his mother to get what he would not give you!! What a wicked lie when the scriptures say that he ever lives to make intercerssion for us.
Sin btw didn’t come from Satan, sin came from Adam. Have you ever read your bible? For by one man sin entered in to the world, not “by one angel”!!
Mary will disavow you as quickly as Jesus will in heaven since she would never want you to worship her or make up silly stories about her.
Stop listening to foolish fables and follow after Jesus.
Phil
Liam
Yes those who bow to the queen are worshipping her.
They are saying that she is great and they are not that she is worthy of worship.
You don’t know much about much do you fella?
Go look up where all that bowing stuff comes from.
Phil