Why Pray To Virgin Mary?

2,540 thoughts on “Why Pray To Virgin Mary?”

1. Dear Evangelist,
   Matthew 6:7 stresses upon “vain repetitions” not on repetitions.
   No Catholic ever says, if they say Rosary without meaning it, that will make any changes.
   Vain repetition means prayers done to impress God, by Rosary we sure don’t do that. We meditate upon the events of Jesus life.

   If you hear a prayer said in a language you don’t understand and if you don’t know that it is a prayer, no wonder you will not be aware of what that person is doing. I totally understand you bro. And I also know that your and everyone Else have pure intentions here.

   Please consider these:

   “So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words.” (Matthew 26:44)

   “And again he went away and prayed, saying the same words.” (Mark 14:39)

   Peace.

2. Oh John..
   You know what, I am a born Catholic too. For 18 years I never tried to understand Bible as much it is required for every christian . I mean I knew facts, I had faith I was just okay. Then I lost grace. Almost for 2 years. It was like I was just alive. Then by God’s grace and not by my own work I realized what was missing in my life. No I did not try to look for Jesus somewhere else. And I’m able to understand the real essence of all the teaching I received throughout my life. It is not more than 1 year I am being strong in my faith. I don’t want a short cut to heaven.

3. I did not again go through Selva Kumar’s comment, I have read it when it was published.I am very tired & sleepy.
   Sad thing is as he said in the comment, he actually did what was not supposed to be. He did idol worship. We know what is our relation with Mother. When he realized what he shouldn’t be doing, he left it . Good.
   But he was never able to understand the faith he was in.. as simple as that.
   No wonder why you don’t consider tens of our testimony.

4. @ Evangelist #348

   Jesus is our spiritual brother, that is secondary? Aaw..does that mean God(Father) is not our natural father, so that relation is secondary too?
   Or do you (in general) say that only to keep Mary out of scene?

   Honest query.

5. May God have mercy – I pray you find the truth – Jesus did not use vain repetition – I only say what’s in my heart – I amost converted to catholic about 40 yrs ago – but God had other plans for my life and I have a personal relationship with Father, Son & Holy Ghost.

6. Oh preethi I am a sister and I have the baptism of the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues which is a whole different subject. To God be the Glory!!! Before the Lord saved me I thought pentecostals were crazy – and I said I would never go to a church like that – but I learned to never say never!! God is in control.

7. Salvation is in Jesus alone. Trust in anything but Him and you will be lost for all eternity. Please, people, read your Bible, trust only what it says, not ANY church.

8. Pastor David Wilderson — I was deeply sadden when I saw the passing of this Great man. I just found out today when I was looking for something on the internet. When I saw the headline – I hollard Oh God, No!!
   Pastor David Wilkerson was a Great Man God who spoke the truth. i came across his sermons when I was searching to listen to some good solid gospel messages. A couple of my favorites were “The Power of the Secret Closet” and “A Friend of Sinners”. Pastor Wilkerson will be deeply missed not only by his family, friends and church but to all who like me found him to teach and preach sound doctrine. My prayers are with all. With Love In Christ

9. Genesis 3:15 “I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.”

   Perhaps Bible’s we follow are different.Let us not keep ” who gave the Bible to world?” question suppressed.

   Let us emphasize on – “enmity between thy seed and her seed”.

   We call Mary as our Mother. Jesus gave her as our mother on Calvary. We who call her as mother are her seed. Period.

   OK… i thot of briefing something about that Gen 3:15 Bible verse. You have in your RC version as “she”. Let me brief about how this mis-use of that verse took place within the RC tradition:

   In agreement with the majority text (MT) and the Greek Septuagint Old Testament (LXX), the verse is:
   13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” 14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. 15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”

   Some translations write it as “it” instead of “he”, based on the Hebrew language used.

   BUT..

   Jerome (342-430) in his Latin Vulgate translation made a major error changing “it” or “he” into “she” using the feminine pronoun IPSA in the Latin. Roman Catholic scholars who accepted the Latin Vulgate then translated Genesis 3:15 in their Douay-Rheims Bible as:

   I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: “she” shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for “her” heel.

   If i am sticking to the original version, “she” is not at all there.

   Conceding the argument the Catholic Encyclopedia notes thus:

   “and I will put enmity between thee and the woman and her seed; she (he) shall crush thy head and thou shalt lie in wait for her (his) heel” (Genesis 3:15).

   The translation “she” of the Vulgate is interpretative; it originated after the fourth century, and cannot be defended critically. The conqueror from the seed of the woman, who should crush the serpent’s head, is Christ …”

   You can see for yourselves, in the fourth century how this has come to the church. Still you wanna defend the unbiblical satanic doctrines?

   Remember, man fell due to sin. The deceiver was serpent, referred to as Satan. To defeat sin, the fallen man is incapable. So Mary is incapable – because she too is a sinner who wanted salvation, who waited for the anoiting of the holy spirit in the Upper Chamber (Acts 2). SO then who is capable – is only God Jesus Christ.

   Mary is a creation. A normal ordinary human being used as a vessel of God.

   Jesus is the CREATOR. He is GOD who came down to the form of man. He already exists from the beginning and has no end of days.

   So, Mary is not the one – but Jesus is the one who bruised the head of the devil.

   I know Preethi – its difficult for you to take this. All what i explained above is given with Bible references.

   The Bible is nothing but the ocmpiling of the teachings of God, through His servants. It was such written scrolls that Jesus took to read at the beginning of His ministry on earth too.

   All scripture is God-breathed. If you wanna exalt your church more than the Word of God.. what happens next to your soul? You can decide. God bless you

10. Dear Heavenly Father – humbly I approach your throne of grace thanking and praising you for all things. Lord we have all sinned and come short your glory – please forgive us for our trangressions. Lord you have been so merciful and kind and we are not worthy of your love. Father I ask you to help us all — open our eyes to the truth of your word – give us more love toward one another. we know when all is said and done that you will have the final say and each of us will be judged according to what our works are – even for every idle word. I ask you to bless all those who will enter this site and give them peace. In Jesus Name, Amen

11. @ Evangelist

    Thank you sis for the wonderful prayer.

    @ Dani I will respond to your message directed to me shortly. Just back from a long journey. Need some time to put my thoughts & references together. :-)

    Peace

12. i am indeed very sad that this bashing of each other by pentecostals and catholics. Those who want to preach about the Jesus should start doing so with none believers. In God’s eyes any form of prayer even the rosary which reflects upon the public life of Jesus till His accescion into heaven is meditated upon is pleasing to His ears. So stop dictating how anyone should pray. some cannot understand why pentecostal christians pray the way they do but if that is bringing them closer to God why should anyone else complain. in the same way let catholics be . until and unless you find out the reason for rosary, communion of saints and other rituals done by catholics you will only see it from the surface and assume that whatt they are doing is wrong. Let us have tolerance and understanding with each other and that is more important than proving someone wrong. Love and understanding is more important to God cos that is how we build His kingdom.

13. Thanks for that Linda.

14. And you too Evangelist.

15. Just doing my little part Cheryl. We must potray Christ in everything we do and it is sad if we call ourselves followers of Christ but bash each other. I really enjoyed all your comments and i hope it can enlighten those who make hasty remarks. God bless

16. @ Dani
    I was wondering whether to reply to you or not. Mostly because I totally agree with Linda,always have.

    I just assert that Church is infallible. :-) I have the references to give. But really I don’t want to repeat whatever has been said already.

    Peace.

17. GLORY HALLELUJAH!!! JESUS IS LORD!!

18. Evangelist:Praise God that u came to Jesus and standing for truth.At present am in Cochin and going to Assemblies of God Church..cum to cochin i take u there..its a Spirit filled Church..I turned to Jesus when am in UG 2nd yr in Karunya University..how about u?

    Preethi:Let’s hold our Faith with wt Scripture says for
    “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,that the man of God may be competent,equipped for every good work”2Tim3:16-17

    Dont blindly follow wt ancestors r doing..Let ur faith reflects Jesus and not human’s law!
    God be with you:-)

19. John,

    I will tell ya why I said Catholic church is infallible to Dani. With scripture references.

    My church ancestors do trace back to apostles and Jesus. You don’t mean to say, Jesus lied when He promised Holy spirit to guide The Church until the end. And when he said,(Matthew 16:18 – “And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it” .

    Heh.

    I am at work, will write to you later. :P

20. Preethi:There is a great misunderstanding among Catolics about Mathew16:18.

    do u thing Peter is Rock in which Church is built?
    You are wrong!!

    In Acts 4:10-12 Peter mentions this very same stone. Was Peter referring to himself as the stone?

    Also in verse 1 Peter 2:4-7,Was he referring to himself or to Christ?

    CHURCH is built upon the Rock and the Rock is Jesus!

21. Preethhi: U said that “Catholic church is infallible”..Then did u mean that Catholic Pope is infallible???

22. @john : do you think the preacher of ur church is pure…

23. i think the thing happening here is full of non-sence.. it started good but it became a fight now….It is in scripture tht mary raised to heaven without death.. which is so holy… there are lots of miracles poured from jesus because of the prayers of mary for us…
    statue is the symbol of mother mary… but not mary herself…
    @john : These guys will always say tht walk in gods way but, does’nt follow.. it is thr tht dont speek wrong abt the church and its prophets, do u follow tht… god is god.. so please do stop this non-sence here… GOD might be so much dis-appointed by this…. so please do stop this…. last but not least hats off the person who started it also sorry tht it went in a wrong way….

24. Preethi:There is a great misunderstanding among Catolics about Mathew16:18.

    do u thing Peter is Rock in which Church is built?
    You are wrong!!

    Ah, it’s nice how we can have a respectable and friendly conversation. It’s even nicer to see such gentlmen-like decorum when talking to a lady (Preethi). Such things are so rare! Sigh*

    These questions are for Preethi to answer, so I’m not going to get in the middle of it, except to say that you all wanted to stick with Scripture, then when she quotes it, you comes back to bite her. No matter what she says, you all are right and she and we silly, dupped and brainwashed catholics are wrong. Whose claiming infallible interpretation now? Or is it just a matter of, “As long as it’s not catholic…I’ll respect your interpretation of Scripture.” If you’re not going to respect our beliefs then leave us alone–we’re tired of arguing.

25. Thank you Cheryl.

    John, there is a delay in answering because of my schedule. I leave home at 7 am for work, come back home at 10 pm. By that time I don’t feel like digging for references.
    I will answer ur question in my next post. By the way, Cheryl has already answered that in her comments long back. As Cheryl told, when we give references do we get any healthy feedback ? NO.

    Have you noticed one thing bro, we only reply when something is being told against our faith but we never question or judge what non Catholics do. Now if you say you , your faith is completely right, your pastors don’t err I am going to LOL. Really.

    Now I ask you some simple questions too, define what is Church? How many Churches are there according to Bible? What are a true Church’s attributes? If there is one, which is it and why? If many show me the references.
    [Hint: There are literally thousands of non-catholic churches]

    I will answer to your question anyway, before you post a convincing answer or later. Let us start a good worthy discussion. I want to know more good things about your faith too. We can help each other right..?

26. Here are my references anyway:

    Christ desired His Church to be one –united in Faith; and that He intended His Church to remain united for all time.

    Ref: John 17:20-21, “I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may be one, as You, Father, are in me and I in You, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.”
    Acts 4:32: “The community of believers was of one heart and one mind …”
    1 Corinth 1:10: “I urge you, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.”
    Philippians 1:27: “…that you are standing firm in one Spirit, with one mind struggling together for the faith of the Gospel, not intimidated in any way by your opponents.”
    Philippians 2:2: “…complete my joy by being of the same mind, with the same love, united in heart, thinking of one thing.”
    Ephesians 4:1-6 — “…bearing with one another through love, striving to preserve unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace: one Body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism; one God and Father of all …”
    1 Peter 3:8: “Finally, all of you, be of one mind …”

    Are we all so called Christians united today? All of us have one Bible but problem is we are interpreting it differently.
    John 21:15-19
    In John 21:15-19, the resurrected Christ, in the midst of the Apostles, commands Simon Peter three times to “feed my lambs” and “tend my sheep.” Now, earlier in this same Gospel (John 10:11-16), Jesus presents Himself as the Good Shepherd, and says how there is to be but “one flock and one Shepherd.” Therefore, the immediate question springs to mind: If Christ is the Good Shepherd, why can’t He “feed” and “tend” His own sheep????

    Now, clearly, Jesus can. After all, He is God. Yet, if that’s the case, why is He commissioning Peter to do it? Clearly, in John 21:15-19, Christ is speaking in an earthly, vicarious sense. Notice, for example, how the sheep do not cease to belong to Jesus. They are still “my sheep.” Yet, Peter is told to “feed” and “tend” them. He is, therefore, being commissioned to act as Christ’s “stand-in” after the Lord’s Ascension into Heaven. Jesus will remain the one Shepherd, yet Peter will “feed” and “tend” the sheep, in the sense that Jesus will not be physically present to do it. Thus, Peter will be the visible, vicarious shepherd of the flock.

    Luke 22:31-32
    “Simon, Simon, behold satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers.” [I take this quote really personally]
    I will come back to “The rock” only at the end before that, let us focus on “the keys”
    Matt 16:19 “I will give to you the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven; and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.”
    Isaiah 22:20-22

    “On that day I shall summon my servant Eliakim, son of Hilkiah. I will … give over to him your authority. He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. I will place the Key of the House of David on his shoulder; when he opens, no one shall shut, and when he shuts, no one shall open.”
    Hmm… refer 1 Kings 4:6, 16:9, 18:3 to know about palace authority ( of King David or king Solomon) or prime minister… So note that this prime minister is an authority when the king is physically absent.

    I hope all Christians believe that Old Testament hid events of new testament.
    Luke 1:32-33 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

    (1 Tim 3:15) 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
    So, if Christ is the King don’t you think He’ll appoint a new authority when He was going to be physically absent? ( Ascension)
    Now please read the below sentence again:

    Matt 16:19, where Christ tells Peter: “I will give to you the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven; and whatsoever you loose on earth, shall be loosed in Heaven.”

    Peter is the prime minister of Jesus’ kingdom. If not, give me references.
    Please read Acts 1:15-23 where Peter appoints Judas’ successor.

    I don’t want to lengthen my post. Just notice how Peter “teaches” about old Testament (Psalms) and this happened even before Holy Spirit descended on them. So he acted as the organizer and unifier of the community.
    Also read Acts 10:1-48 You will come to know the importance of getting baptized by water over speaking in tongues from verses 44-48.

    Hope I have answered your question at least partially and our Savior’s words were of real importance. Will give references for “the rock” hopefully tomorrow or day after.
    I am open to your views.
    Praise the Lord.

27. To John and the the evangelist, please read Revelations12 and explain! If you are not Mary’s child, then you are not obeying God’s commandments and holding Jesus’s testimony Revelations 12 vs 17! If God dressed Mary with twelve stars with the sun, who are you to say she is just a woman used, I dont think you really believe that Jesus is the Son of God! Remember Isaiah 55vs 8-9> The way you think is different from theway God thinks, be careful what you say !Ave Maria Mother of Jesus!

28. @ Preethi & Cheryl, thank you ladies for standing up for us Catholics, believe when I say u r not alone, even though I have not comment of late, I for one have become so annoyed at these so called non-Catholics, I say so called non-Catholics, because deep down within themselves they really & truly want to be Catholics but just keep fighting themselves, why else would our Beloved Mother be such an interesting topic of discussion for them…And u r quite right Cheryl when u say every time Preethi quotes Scripture she comes under attack. Is it just because she is Catholic, that she is not able to understand Scripture? And this goes for all of us Catholics, that we are ignorant & brainwashed. Non of us Catholics commenting on this page were correct, not even our Priest who posted comments, and by God he study for Priesthood for years so I guess even that doesn’t matter…. U “non-Catholics or saved people” r so hell-bent on proving us Catholics as wrong. What wrong with u people?? And u r so right Cheryl when u say: ” If you’re not going to respect our beliefs then leave us alone–we’re tired of arguing”

29. Rex:I dont know whether my preacher is pure or not.
    One thing i know,my preacher helps me to get the Word of God clearer to me to follow with scripture as Basic.

    And,no one is fighting here..all r bro/sis in Christ.v try to show the correct way to live for Jesus.

30. Preethi:no problem…take ur own time to reply me:-)

    Cheryl:how can i stop my view,when my sisters Preethi and urself are not knowing the real meaning of wt God told in scriptures..

31. Preethi:Am sorry Preethi if my postings are harsh to u:-(((

    Its not your faith or my faith..its “Our Faith in Jesus”..yes am ready to share de good things:-)
    Answer for Church:
    Bible describes Church as spiritual Church where the foundation is laid not by stones and clay.but by
    “built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the CHIEF cornerstone”Eph2:20.

    And,This Church is not raised up with bricks.its raised with Living Stones.Praise God that v r his Living Stones:-) by
    “you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ”1Peter2:5

    You know wt our position in dat Church..v r de Chosen Race,Royal Priesthood,Holy Nation,a people for his own possession,that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light–1Peter2:9

    Yes Preethi you r the Chosen one for Christ..dont tell that u r nothing..you r de people for His OWN possession to work as Apostles,Pastors,teacher,Evanglist,Prophet for Jesus..Praise God for that.

    And this God’s house is survived by the fruits of Holy Spirit(which v have to get)love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,gentleness,self-control;against such things there is no law.

    You r not de dead stones…but Living Stones to live,Die for Jesus..how joyful de life be:-)

32. @Tania:
    sorry. As per your logic, when we fight the devil, then is it bcz we also want to be like the devil? I am afraid to give a learned reply to you on this view of yours.

33. Preethi:
    i will provide the answer for ur 2 questions
    by tomorrow..both are good question to see deep in Word of God:-)

34. John,
    Cheryl:how can i stop my view,when my sisters Preethi and urself are not knowing the real meaning of wt God told in scriptures.

    This is exactly the ‘attitude’ I’m talking about. We’re wrong no matter what we say. How are we suppose to have a discussion under such circumstances? I’m not asking you to discard your views. I’m only asking you (and others) to respect ours. Let me ask you this: What is the difference between you and I? How is it that you know the Scriptures (enough to correct us (Preethi and me)) and we don’t? Have you studied Scripture? Great. So have I. Have you wrestled with things and gone to God in prayer, listening for His answer? Great. So have I. I said this before, but I’ll say it again. I am a convert. I came from a very conservative Lutheran (as in Martin Luther of the Reformation) Church. I have a knowledge of both Scripture and Dogmatics. I had to study, pray and struggle to get to where I’m at. I didn’t blindly convert to the Catholic Church. I made an informed decision based upon years of study and prayer and I continue to do so.

35. Everyone,

    I know this is an internet discussion and we all make grammer mistakes (I’ve made plenty), but for the love of the English language can we please dispense with the short-hand. It’s making comments increasingly difficult for me to read. I’m having to stop in the middle of a sentence when I come across “u” or “r” for example and only after a bit of diciphering do I then figure out, “Oh, they mean “you” and “are””. I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

36. Thanks Tania, I knew you are here. Have seen your comments :-)
    John I’m glad we are on the same page.I have more to say on church not today.

    “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age” (St. Matt. 28, 19-20)

    And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you forever. This is the Spirit of truth…he abides with you, and he will be in you…the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you” (St. John 14, 16-17; 26). Consequently, it is impossible for the Church, which is the “body of Christ” (Eph. 1, 23) to apostasize into error or be destroyed. This is why Catholic church is infallible. I will give more references if you need.

    Before that, even I request Dani or John to explain Revelation 12 as said by Addeline..No changing the topic please.

37. @Dani (383) (1) are u now comparing Our Blessed Mother Mary to the devil? (2) For what reason are you afraid to give as you say your learned reply? Do you think that you are better than me or above me?

38. Cheryl:Am not showing that i know Scriptures well..But by His grace i know something which makes to edify myself and others.

39. Preethi:Yes,By your post(387),Church is the body of Christ.Its not Catholic church r protestant r CSI as particular..Church is the living body where living stone(People in Christ),Apostles,etc work together for the Lord and tend,feed the sheep.

    Ok..let me too know more about Church from you.

    Yeh,i will reply about Revelation 12 by tomorrow.

40. Preethi:Answer for your question #377..
    Among the Apostles,Peter is the Chief Apostle and Jesus gave him power and authority to tend sheep,keys of kingdom of heaven.

    But this is not for St.Peter alone.This is for all other Apostles who live or Jesus.
    As in cricket r anyother sport,a team is represented by a Captain..like that Peter is Captain to all Apostles at that time.

    By seeing Elymas the magician,St Paul shouted “And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you will be blind and unable to see the sun for a time”-Acts13:8-12

    similar incident found in Acts5:1-11..Paul had the authority to bound and unbound things in earth.Paul started Churches in Rome,Corinth,Collosians,galations,Ephesians..Hefeed and tend the sheep..

    Also,the same power and authority will be given to us by Holy Spirit when u sincerely seek Chriat and u will bound and unbound things in heaven and earth.

41. Addeline & Preethi:

    The Revelation book is written by John(Apostle) the son of Zebedee,when he was prisoned in island called Patmos.

    About Revelation Chapter-12:
    In Rev12:1 : The women represented here is the Church of the living God.The tweleve stars represents the APostles.
    Rev12:2 : As a women undergoes birth_pain to deliver the Child,The Church will undergo severe Persecution,trials,hardships..to bring up righteous & upright people who will be taken in Rapture before the tribulation period.
    Rev12:3,4 : The Tempter will sweep many Man of God people from their divine plan and purpose to do sin and stain their life.
    Rev12:5 : Now after the birth_pain of the Church,It will give out many God feared people,who had escaped from all temptation and strengthened in Faith.This people will be taken to Heaven by Jesus by Rapture.
    Rev12:6 : After Rapture,Tribulation period starts where satan will rule the left_over people in earth.At that time Church will be in wilderness trying to gather the left_over people to God.Its not a easy task to seek God at that time..There will be severe persecution by satan who follow God.
    Rev12:7-12 : Here there is a war between God and accuser army..and satan is thrown out to earth.Righteous people won the war by the Blood of the Lamb and word of their testimony.
    Rev12:13-17 : Psalm69:15 says Satan will come as flood to destroy us..so when satan comes as flood to affect Church,the earth opens and takes the flood..the earth represents here is the people who loves the world and not Jesus.All sins,curse from satan are fallen on filthy people and righteous people are saved.

    This is the interpretation of Rev12..

42. John,

    Cheryl:Am not showing that i know Scriptures well..But by His grace i know something which makes to edify myself and others.

    Then why are you assuming we are wrong (not just about one thing, but about many (Preethi and I have given our views on a number of issues in this thread))?

43. I have a question. This is not about this post. Some people are saying that Jesus is coming back May 21, 2011. Any one want to share — I know and believe what the bible says – Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

44. You are contradicting yourself by telling Peter is like a captain and then by telling everyone plays the same role. We know what we mean when we say Pope is the captain of RC church and we are active players of Jesus’ living church.
    Only Catholic Church can trace back its unbroken line (history) to Jesus as I said earlier. When it is the fact do you think Jesus’ words can go wrong, when He said His spirit will be amongst us until the end?
    I will give you some writings of early church Fathers before I go to the Bible references: ( It is for my own reference anyway, since you will say THAT is NOT in BIBLE : ) )
    St. Gaudentius of Brescia (died A.D. 410): “It is certain that all men of Noah’s time perished, except those who merited to be in the Ark, which was a figure of the Church. Likewise, they cannot in any way now be saved who are aliens from the Apostolic Faith and the Catholic Church” (De Lect. Evangel)
    Saint Jerome (died A.D. 420): “As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is, with the Chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the Church is built. …This is the Ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails. …And as for heretics, I have never spared them; on the contrary, I have seen to it in every possible way that the Church’s enemies are also my enemies.” (Manual of Patrology and History of Theology)
    Saint Augustine (died A.D. 430): “No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church.” (Sermo ad Caesariensis Ecclesia plebem)
    Christ wants one Christian faith: “One Lord, one faith, one Baptism” (Ephesians 4:5) -and also “There will be one flock, one shepherd.” (John 10:17).
    If there is “one Baptism” do you think that is for spiritual church or for the living members of the church? Wern’t there symbolic representations of Baptism in the Bible? In fact, there are symbolic representations for all the sacraments that Holy Catholic Church gives..Does all non catholic churches give those sacraments (which are essential for salvation – you can put your questions about this) to its members?
    Additionally, in my previous post & in this I said and you agreed there is “one church” no matter whether physical or spiritual. If we keep Catholic church aside, do you find unity in all other churches in one-to- one relation? Do you agree with each other? Are your interpretations are same from one another? If not which church’s teachings are true? And what about others? Do you fight with each other?

    You said, Also,the same power and authority will be given to us by Holy Spirit when you sincerely seek Christ and you will bound and unbound things in heaven and earth.

    That is really very heavy to take. And sounds truly sounds pompous.
    The Pharisees read Scripture, yet managed to use, or misuse, quotations from the Old Testament as an argument against Christ Himself, the Author of Scripture.
    Mark 9:42 “But anyone who is an obstacle to bring down one of these little ones who have faith, would be better thrown into the sea with a great millstone around his neck.”
    About the Bible: Revelation 22:18-19: “This is my solemn warning to all who hear the prophecies in this book: if anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him every plaque mentioned in the book; if anyone cuts anything out of the prophecies in this book, God will cut off his share of the tree of life and of the Holy City, which are described in the book.”
    Protestant Bible lacks 7 books + experts from many sections.
    Some other facts about history:
    It is a fact of history that the Council of Carthage, in 397 A.D., settled the Canon Table of Contents of the New Testament. This is over 1100 years before Luther created his Bible. This Carthage Table of Contents from 397 A.D. is the same Table of Contents that the Catholic Bible has today. The Catholic Church has preserved the Bible and she alone knows what it means. No other denomination has any right to it whatsoever, or any authority to declare what the texts mean. The work of translating, editing, and printing it belongs only to the Catholic Church. The Bible came from the Catholic Church. The Church did not come from the Bible.
    Non-catholic claim: The Bible alone is all anyone needs for salvation.
    Which Bible? How do you know you have the right Bible? Are you sure your Bible contains only the true words that came down from the Apostles and Evangelists? Are you absolutely sure no words have been inserted or deleted deliberately by man? Do you have an exact copy of the Holy Scriptures that are identical to the writings from Moses to St. John?
    We all say Bible is God breathed. Yes. Then again, why not believe what Jesus personally told Apostles about the advocate?
    You asked me whether Pope can err?
    Yes I am aware of the history. There were bad Popes. Bad Popes prove the protection of God. He preserved His Church in spite of the personal iniquity of those men. The Church does not claim that the Pope can do no wrong. He will have temptations just like other men, and he has free will to resist those temptations or consent to them. The Pope must save his soul just like anyone else. He is not going to be preserved from sin in spite of himself. Heaven must be earned, and every person must have his own struggle to be good and save his soul. The Pope is not, and has never claimed to be, impeccable. God endows the Pope with infallibility not for his own sake, but for our sake, so he can tell us with certainty what we must believe and do in order to save ourselves. Whether the Pope lives up to it himself is quite another matter and his own business. It is quite possible to give excellent advice and not live up to it yourself.
    Aand,
    But why cannot the church err?
    Deuteronomy 18:22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him.
    And why do we need a church to “teach” us the truth?
    2 Peter 1:12, 16, 19-21 Therefore I intend always to remind you of these things, though you know them and are established in the truth that you have. . . . [16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. . . . [19] And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. [20] First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, [21] because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
    Hope that helps.
    Ephesians 2:19-21: . . . you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [20] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, [21] in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord;

    “Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”
    Ephesians 2:19-20, KJV
    Do you require any other proof than above to say Catholic Church is the true church? “Built upon the foundation of the apostles & prophets” . Catholic Church is the only church which is apostolic. One more comment here, Jesus is the foundation of church (“For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”1 Corinthians 3:11). Right? See what is written above? Also , Jesus is called as cornerstone. Inference: The same implies with context of “the rock” with Jesus and Peter and St.Peter’s special role in his mission. We can interpret Bible only by learning the context not by individual sentences.
    In this true church Since Jesus is the cornerstone, are you saying that it can be a faulty foundation, with Jesus included in that? Are the apostles and prophets also fallible when proclaiming prophecy or the gospel or the inspired Bible message? If so, where do we see any hint of that in Holy Scripture?
    Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

    But it’s not only Peter. He is a key “stone” or “rock” but Jesus is the cornerstone, other apostles and the prophets are also in the foundation, and we ourselves (all Christians) are incorporated into the Church (following the metaphor), on top of the foundation:

    1 Peter 2:4-9 Come to him, to that living stone, rejected by men but in God’s sight chosen and precious; [5] and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. [6] For it stands in scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and he who believes in him will not be put to shame.” [7] To you therefore who believe, he is precious, but for those who do not believe, “The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner,” [8] and “A stone that will make men stumble, a rock that will make them fall”; for they stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. [9] But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. (cf. Is 28:16)

    Revelation 21:10, 14 And in the Spirit he carried me away to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,. . . And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
    This is why St.Peter & his successors are Popes. And church is infallible.
    Coming back to: “Living Body of Christ”
    “There is nothing a Christian should dread more than to be separated from the Body of Christ, for if he is separated from the Body, he is not one of His Members. If he is not a member of Christ, then he does not live by His Spirit. “If any man have not the Spirit of Christ,” says the Apostle, “he is none of His” (Romans 8:9) … Do you also wish to live by the Spirit of Christ? Then belong to the Body of Christ. No one ascends into Heaven except him who remains glued to Christ, for “no man hath ascended into Heaven except Him Who alone descended from Heaven: the Son of man Who is in Heaven” (John 3:13). Do you want to ascend, too? Then become a member of Him Who alone ascends! For He, the Head, is one man with the other members … If, then, the Body of Christ and its members belong to “one man,” do not make two of them … He is the Bridegroom Who is the Head, the Bride is he who is in the Body. For “they two,” He said, “shall be in one flesh” (Mt. 19:5-6) … And since no one can ascend into Heaven but him who has become His member in His Body, the saying is fulfilled that “no man ascends to Heaven except Him Who descended” … What do these words mean if not that no man ascends into heaven who has not been made one with Him and, as a member, become hidden within the Body of Him who has descended from Heaven? And what is that Body if not the Church?” (Treatise on John)

    Thank you for posting your interpretation,we will post Catholic interpretation of Rev 12 with respect to complete Bible soon.

    Peace of Christ.

45. John,
    You said in your previous post “About Revelation Chapter-12:
    In Rev12:1 : The women represented here is the Church of the living God.The tweleve stars represents the APostles.”

    This is a very poor interpretation I have ever heard.
    Because, Church came forth from Jesus and not the other way around.
    CHURCH DID NOT GAVE BIRTH TO JESUS. ( That, if you say Child is Jesus)

    If the woman is the church according to you, who is the child??!!

    You said “to bring up righteous & upright people who will be taken in Rapture before the tribulation period.” So do you mean child by many people? Then what about the church or the woman? Is that a singular or plural?

    Again again again, earlier you were asserting about the “spiritual church” which is nothing but body of Christ. That in turn nothing but faithful people. (And according to non-catholics ( no matter whatever denomination), Catholics are excluded.Anyway,)

    So church is giving birth to church?!

    Also you said we are all apostles!Then why only 12 stars?

    Really, I don’t understand how we can compare ourselves to Apostles, prophets , Martyrs, Saints ! Yes we are chosen people, we all have our own mission meant to be delivered by us, but claiming to be equal with who shed blood for Jesus is really a destructive theory. Anyway,

    Clarify about Rev 12 please.

46. Sunday, 08/05 we celebrate & honour our moms & all those women who have played a special & important role in our lives…I know I have been blessed with my own mom & even more blessed with my grandma, my eldest sister who helped grow me up as a mom, my aunts & even my spiritual mothers..so to them I say thank you..but even though I have been blessed with all these wonderful women,,there is one even more special to me..the one that is the Handmaid of our Lord & Saviour, Our Blessed Virgin Mary. I especially honour my Heavenly & Blessed Mother Mary, She has guided & held me like only a mom can, through the darkest days of my life, the times that I couldn’t turn to my mom, the Blessed Virgin Mary, has always been there for me,. shielding, protecting me & interceding on my behalf to Her Beloved Son Jesus. I know that She still holds me close to Her bosom everyday…. I love You Mother Mary…To all those moms on this page – I wish you a blessed & wonderful day – So HAPPY MOTHERS’ DAY all you special Angels, God bless & may you be treated & feel like a Queen everyday. To those ladies out there struggling to become a mom, don’t give up God has a plan for all of us…You too will experience this awesome & magical experience called MOTHERHOOD…Love to you all…Tania

47. Thank you Tania for a very sweet message..

    Happy Mother’s Day.

    Love & peace…:-)

48. John, please do not confuse people, read the bible as it is, very poor interpretation as Preenti said. I will stick to my interpretation and to Catholic ,see you in Heaven brother. Blessed be the Virgin Mary and the fruit of thy womb Jesus!

49. Addeline:
    Do you think Mary,mother of Jesus is Virgin???
    Answer is NO!!

    Mary is virgin till she give birth to Jesus. Then how James, Jesus’s borther existed in earth?

50. we need Mary’s intercession.. i believe it to be powerful because it really works many times in my life..