Why should we pray to Virgin Mary? The reasons are many.
Why do Catholics pray to Mother Mary? Is Rosary really powerful?
The intercession of Mother Mary is very powerful as Jesus cannot neglect His mothers commands.This can be proved by the first miracle Jesus did at the wedding at Cana. – (John 2:1-11). Mother Mary told Jesus “They have no more wine.” And what was the final result? He turned water into wine.
In “The Poem of the Man-God” by Maria Valtorta, she says that Jesus told her about this incident as “I did it for Mary”. This proves that the intercession of Mother Mary is very very strong.
Mother Mary was blessed with Holy Spirit abundantly. We can see this as we read “At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” (Luke 1:39-41) ; just by Virgin Mary’s greeting.
Listen to the talk from Apologetics on Mary, Purgatory and The Bible
What the angels thought on this matter:-
When angel appeared before Zechariah,father of John, angel just greets him by his name ,nothing more although he was “upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commandments and regulations blamelessly.” – (Luke 1:6)
When angel appeared before Joseph, the greeting was like this: “an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” – (Matthew 1:20). Angel greeted him ‘son of david’, thats all.
Now let us see how did the angel greet Virgin Mary. It goes like this: “The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” (Luke 1:28). See the difference….
Also read the article Mary, The Mystical Rose
Have you not read the first commandment ?
“I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;” Exodus 20:1-5
Sadly, all of you are deceived by Satan’s tricks, please avoid your presence in hell fire, repent ! Mary was just a woman that GOD used to come into this world.
ALSO SEE:
for more details.
To Moses Daniel (#1261):
Nice analogy you have used. We have to praise the painter for his creation (the painting). Likewise we submit ourselves to God(Jesus) – as He is the Creator, author and sustainer of life. However, Majority of people today end up praising, honoring, worshiping the creation rather than the creator. The Hindu religion is an example. The Catholic religion is another.
First of all, a christian is not the one who knows scripture
Wrong … Jesus said otherwise in Mark 12:24 -“Jesus said to them, “Are you not misled because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God?”
Jesus is very clear in Mark 12:24 that the scriptures is important. I am afraid your are misled exactly what Jesus says.
In Hosea 4:6 – God said – “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea is a serious warning from God. We will perish if we don’t seek to learn the truths of God’s Word in scriptures.
Please don’t come up with your personal interpretation just because your human feelings and thinking are misleading you to drink abundantly from the from the fresh waters of the Living water that Jesus pours out by his great love and Mercy.
Jerome said – “Ignorance of the scripture is ignorance of Christ”.
I don’t think that Jesus lives and loves the people who knows only scripture. Those people who opened heart for him, Jesus will live with them irrespective of Catholic, Protestant or any other one, even belong to other religion. He is searching for the true heart and mind where the Holy Spirit can stay and guide.
There is a BIG difference between Knowing Scriptures and Understanding Scriptures.
Very few among those who know scriptures by heart does really understand scriptures.
So before you start quoting scriptures, think whether you really understand what that means, and it is not always the word by word meaning.
To Sir Alan, to date they were already four postings in your name. The first three (#1211, 1228, & 1229) is centered to our Blessed Mother of which I believe was already been answered or refuted sufficiently by other posters before and after your posting. Maybe that is why no one cared to reply and address your interest on the subject matter.
Latest posting (#1263, July 2nd, 2012) had a different agenda you are now attacking the Catholic Church and other religion (Hindu) as well.
You seemed ready to a court battle, preparing meticulously your well rehearsed texts accusing us Catholics of something we do not practice.
You even quoted part of our saint writings to justify your cause of action.
Sir, before someone else would stand to oppose you maybe you will be kind enough to express to us what denomination you belong. In that way you give us equal footing to defend our Church position you are fond of accusing practicing false religion. I am not well verse in the Bible as I am only on my teen years but I believe there will be others among Catholics willingly to engage you in sound discussion after you express what faith or denomination you are proud holding on.
An affront to our church where I belong is an affront to my faith. I hope you consider my request sir to give us a chance to defend Our Catholic Faith.
Ave Maria!
Sheeja (#1264)
Christians learn the scriptures because God Commands it (2 Timothy 2:15). The Scriptures of the Bible is God’s love letter to mankind. It educates us about God, who is he and his Holy attributes. Besides it contains instructions how we should lead our life that is pleasing to him and according to his perfect will. Christians learn the scriptures because it has the power to transform lives, makes us wise and to make us holy and acceptable in God’s sight. Without the scriptures we would not know how the instructions God gives us to follow in order to enter heaven and to avoid hell. So at least basic knowledge and total obedience of the scriptures is important.
From your post it is apparent you are a catholic who has been taught to have a scant dis-respect towards Gods Holy Word the scriptures. It looks like you want to find your own self-righteous prideful way to God. This is impossible because God considers such actions as “filthy rags” (See Isaiah 64:6). We can only get to heaven through Jesus (John 14:6).
I am following Jesus not after learning each scripture from all chapters of Holy Bible. I listen the words of priests – who studied and understand the scriptures in depth and translate the exact and broad meaning of each scripture. I saw how my Parents are living with scriptures. Also identified how the scriptures are in the suffering people, who are living with God, Jesus and Ave Maria. But at the same time I know a lot of people in other religion living under the protective and loving care of Jesus. They don’t know the exact wordings or location of verses but they know the principles of Jesus, which they are following and are living as the beloved children of God & Jesus.
Christine Marie (#1266)
Hello,
First and foremost, peace be with you and its very much appreciated you don’t get over excited.
Sir, before someone else would stand to oppose you maybe you will be kind enough to express to us what denomination you belong. In that way you give us equal footing to defend our Church position you are fond of accusing practicing false religion. I am not well verse in the Bible as I am only on my teen years but I believe there will be others among Catholics willingly to engage you in sound discussion after you express what faith or denomination you are proud holding on.
I am a Bible believing Christian so denomination is something which is not important to me because Jesus did not come to earth 2000 years ago to create denominations but to save the “lost sinners” (Matthew 18:11).
I don’t have the intention of attacking anyone personally (Catholic, Protestant or others). I do have though a sacred duty as a soldier of Christ to defend the truth Satan has blinded people through man made religious systems. I engage the Jehovah’s witnesses, Mormons, for the distortions they preach. As far as the Catholic church is concerned, I and like minded people have the intention of sharing the truth on this forum because that’s what this blog has been set up for in the first place inviting posters like me and you to share views on the topic “Should we pray to Mary?”
Now it all depends if you are a truth seeker or simply having a blind faith that you have lived with innocently to this day. If I am attacking anyone .. then I have been misunderstood, but I am also doing a sacred duty as said earlier to expose the devils lies and show the false teachings of any denomination that blinds its faithful members. The primary intention is that everyone like ourselves should live happily ever after in heaven when we pass away from this world.
I can imagine how zealous you are. I was once upon a time myself just like you. But I realized my folly and foolishness. So I pray for you too, that you overcome the sentimentalism that has over-shadowed you.
God Bless.
Alan.
God has given only ten commandments, which is again consolidated into just two commandments by Jesus.
Rest of the scriptures were written by his followers and disciples who are humans.
Understand the broader meaning of what is written before quoting single sentences out of context.
As you might know, Jesus targeted those who were staunch ‘literal’ followers of the scriptures and that is why they had him crucified.
@ Sir Alan,
I beg to disagree to your posting # 1267:
And I quote; “Christians learn the scriptures because God Commands it (2 Timothy 2:15). The Scriptures of the Bible is God’s love letter to mankind. It educates us about God, who is he and his Holy attributes. Besides it contains instructions how we should lead our life that is pleasing to him and according to his perfect will. Christians learn the scriptures because it has the power to transform lives, makes us wise and to make us holy and acceptable in God’s sight. Without the scriptures we would not know how the instructions God gives us to follow in order to enter heaven and to avoid hell. So at least basic knowledge and total obedience of the scriptures is important.”
2Tim.2:15 (KJV). “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” Sir, how did you know that you rightfully divided the word of the truth? By taking up verses of 2Tim.2:15 and then jumping back to Is.64:6; and then applying coup d grace (John 14:6) as your final clincher to win the argument?! Is that the way rightly dividing the word of truth?
Your first paragraph has many confusing ‘twist and turns, I’ll show you numerous denominations that claims the same way as you claimed on your first paragraph.
The Lutheran church –1517 AD. Founded by a man, Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Roman Catholic Church, who violated his sacred vows of both obedience and celibacy. Luther created a brand new protestant bible by throwing out 7 books of the bible he personally didn’t agree with, and added the word “alone” after the word “faith”, in Romans 3:28, in order to make the verse agree with his view of what it should have said (faith alone). This alteration of sacred scripture directly contradicts James 2:24. Luther also called the Catholic Church “the whore of Babylon”, and he said that the Pope was the antichrist (someone who denies that Jesus is God).
The Anabaptist church – 1520 AD. Founded by a man, Nicholas Storch, and Thomas Münzer, former Lutherans. The Anabaptists rejected infant baptism and were denounced by Martin Luther. This “reformation of the reformation” is proof positive that the doctrine of “scripture alone” is false. Otherwise, there wouldn’t have been more than one interpretation of scripture and no need for an anabaptist church that totally ignores Luke 18:15-17.
The Mennonite church – 1525 AD. Founded by men, Grebel, Mantz, and Blaurock, in Switzerland, as an offshoot of the Anabaptists. It derived its name from Menno Simons, a former Catholic priest.
The Baptist church – 1606 AD. Founded by a man, John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam, as an offshoot of the Mennonites
The Amish church – 1693 AD. Founded by a man, Jacob Amman, a Swiss Bishop. Also a breakaway from the Mennonite church. His followers were called the “Amish.” While similar to the Mennonites, they differ in language, dress, and interpretation of the Bible.
The Anglican Church – 1534 AD. Founded by a man, King Henry VIII, as a direct result of the Pope not granting him a divorce from Catherine of Aragon. Many a Catholic priest was tortured and killed as a result of the very aroused Henry trying to find another young maiden for his pleasure. The Queen of England is the current head of the Anglican Church.
The Presbyterian church – 1560 AD. Founded by a man, John Knox, inScotland. Based on the personal beliefs of a man, John Calvin, which include predestination, no free will in humans, & total depravity in mankind
The Congregationalist church (The Puritans) – 1583 AD. Founded by a man, Robert Brown, in Holland. Broke away from the Church of England. Brown rejected, among other things, the authority of bishops. One Puritan, named Oliver Cromwell, got involved in the English Civil War, and overthrew Charles I in 1646. Cromwell and the British government were also responsible for the subjugation and killing of hundreds of thousands of Irish Catholics, who were also forbidden to say Mass, wear green, and sing patriotic songs.
The Unitarian church – 1568 AD. Started in Poland, but died out. It was soon replaced by a man, John Biddle, in 1645 AD. The Unitarians do not believe in the Trinitarian God.
The Episcopalian church – 1784 AD. Founded by a man, Samuel Seabury in the American Colonies & is an offshoot of the Church of England. They believe in women priests and bishops, artificial birth control, and they accept homosexuality as being normal and good in spite of Romans 1:26-27. The Episcopalian Church is currently undergoing a 21rst Century reformation of itself, with individual congregations breaking away from their own hierarchy over the question of scriptural inerrancy concerning homosexuality. Another proof that the doctrine of “scripture alone” without an infallible Magesterium to interpret it based on sacred Tradition is false. It seems that the Episcopal Church is more concerned with going along with the current trend of society than it is in being true to what scripture actually says about homosexuality.
The Quakers – 1647 AD. Founded by a man, George Fox, in England. Also called The Society of Friends, although they originally called themselves “Children of Light”. They acknowledge absolutely no authority higher than what Fox called the “inner light” of personal revelation.
The Methodist church – 1739 AD. Founded by men, John and Charles Wesley, in England. The Wesley brothers were originally Anglican ministers who started a revival movement that eventually became Methodism. Yet another reformation of the reformation.
The Evangelical church – 1803 AD. Founded by a man, Jacob Albright, originally a Methodist, who broke away and founded his own church.
The Mormon church – 1829 AD. Also call themselves “Latter Day Saints”, was founded by a man, Joseph Smith in Palmyra, New York, in 1829. They are polythesists who someday hope to become a god of their own planet. after death. They believe that God the Father was a good mormon on another planet and was so great that he became the god of our planet. They also believe that Jesus and lucifer were brothers on that former planet.
The Seventh Day Adventists – 1831 AD. Founded by a man, William Miller in New York. Based on his study of the prophecy of Daniel 8:14, Miller calculated that Jesus would return to earth sometime between 1843 and 1844. This prediction is in spite of the fact that the bible says that no one will be able to predict when the Second Coming of Jesus will be (Matthew 24:36).
Jehovah’s Witnesses – 1872 AD. Founded by a man, Charles Taze Russell, as the “Millennial Dawnists.” In 1931, Judge Rutherford, his successor, decided that henceforth they would be called, Witnesses of Jehovah, or Jehovah’s Witness. The JWs deny the divinity of Christ, the resurrection of the body, and refuse to take blood transfusions.
The Christian Scientists – 1879 AD. Founded by a woman, Mary Baker Eddy in Massachusetts. They also refuse blood transfusions and medical care, in spite of the fact that the gospel writer Luke was a physician.
Assemblies of God – 1901 AD. Founded by a man, Charles Parham, in Topeka Kansas. They believe in the Baptism of the Spirit, miracle healings, and speaking in tongues.
Not counting thousand more who all professed they know scriptures because of their doctrine of “scripture alone,†which denominations are rightfully dividing the word of truth? All of these Christian denominations were holding the same scriptures you said “God’s love letter to mankind†but have different doctrinal faith contrary to what you have believed.
Sir, did you know that our Lord Jesus Christ had been crucified and put to death because of the connivance of the scribes (Pharisees & the Sadducees) belief and knowledge of the scriptures? How will you reconcile your argument to the glaring truth that had transcribed in the old days and the active denominations in this present day?
I am not saying that we should discount the scriptures, what I am trying to stress is who should rightfully interpret the word of God so that we should not be in a dilemma of who must we to follow and believe. With so many preachers and ministers of different congregation sprouting nowadays who should we believe? Remember that Christ Himself forewarned us of these false teachers and false Christ that will mingle with us in later day time. Can you say with conviction and without doubt that your interpretation of the word of God is correct and true to His meaning? Maybe you will say “yes’ to justify your own foolishness because ‘word for word’ you quoted the scriptures just like what you did in your article # 1265; but how about the others who quoted the same way you did but have different doctrinal matters on some point in the doctrine of faith? I am sure you are not all the same in the doctrine of faith! Each one is claiming they hold the true doctrine of faith and correct interpretation of the word of God.
Your second paragraph in its context (address to Sheeja) was bereft of the knowledge of the true word of the scriptures. God would not wish us to be wise of the scriptures. He does not want us to be scattered because we do not know the scriptures, He wants all His sheep (children) to be in one flock (Church) and one faith through Jesus name. I’ll give you three interesting point as examples:
Point one:
On one occasion, James and John, the “sons of thunder” (Mark 3:17), desired to call down fire from heaven to obliterate an entire village of Samaritans. Jesus admonished them for failing to perceive the spirit they must to possess and display toward others (Luke 9:54-55).
Point two:
On another occasion, John came to Jesus and reported that there was someone preaching in His name. “And we tried to prevent him, because he was not one of us” (Mark 9:38; cf. Luke 9:49). Just because this individual was not in John’s group of disciples, he viewed him as opposition, someone whose actions needed to be stopped. Again, Jesus had rebuffed John’s spirit of rejection and condemnation. He had to stave off one of the Lord’s own sheep who was guilty of nothing other than being in a different fold. But with God’s grace he can possible to be part of the one flock without being in the same fold as what had happened to St. Paul, meaning through conversion. A perception very much needed by us today!
Point three:
Although our Lord Jesus has other lost sheep all over this world, located in many different pens, there should only be one flock (the universal church), just as there is only one Shepherd (Jesus Christ). This is Jesus wanted to convey to His apostles and disciples in the following narration: “I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and they shall be one flock with one shepherd.†(John 10:16) And this is what we earnestly prayed for!
Here is another faulty interpretation in your article!
This is taken in part to your posting # 1263 addressed to Moses Daniel, July 2nd, 2012: And I quote.
“Wrong … Jesus said otherwise in Mark 12:24 -â€Jesus said to them, “Are you not misled because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God?â€
Jesus is very clear in Mark 12:24 that the scriptures is important. I am afraid your are misled exactly what Jesus says.
In Hosea 4:6 – God said – “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea is a serious warning from God. We will perish if we don’t seek to learn the truths of God’s Word in scriptures.â€
These two verses, Mark 12:24 & Hosea 4:6 are again taken out of context by your own interpretation. Sadly I cannot imagine the one who claimed to be knowledgeable and not ignorant of the scriptures are now the one eating up his very words. These two verses you cited Mark 12:24 is addressed to the Sadducees and the Pharisees, and not to the public or for us to know methodically all what was written in the scriptures. Likewise, Hosea 4:4-6 is addressed to the Priests and Prophets; Theme: Against the Priests; “4.) But let no man denounce, no man rebuke; it is you, priest, that I denounce. 5.) Day and night you stumble along, the prophet stumbling with you, and you are the ruin of your people. 6.) My people perish for want of knowledge. As you have rejected knowledge, so do I reject you from priesthood; you have forgotten the teaching of your God. This is a clear manifestation of the role of the Priests to teach his people to the commandment of the Law and to guide properly to the teaching of their God.
Sir, I am sorry to say your basic knowledge of interpreting the scriptures is not enough to carry you to a sound discussion. It doesn’t have a chance to stand on its own.
Ave Maria!
Sheeja (#1268)
I am following Jesus not after learning each scripture from all chapters of Holy Bible.
Are you 100% sure you are following the right Jesus given there are many counterfeit Jesus’s floating around?? – See Mark 13:21-23 was Jesus cautioned for a hint.
How are you sure that the scriptures are interpreted to you by man are correct and not in error?? If I as a man told you that Jesus said “something” would you simply accept is blindly without verifying the facts.
If I told you that Catholic Church modified the Ten Commandments by dubious means – wouldn’t you check the facts or just remain blind. Question: Why is the Ten Commandments in the Catechism not the same as the Catholic Bible? Check it for yourself if you have a least an average intelligence.
God Bless.
Roy (#1270)
Alan.
God has given only ten commandments, which is again consolidated into just two commandments by Jesus. Rest of the scriptures were written by his followers and disciples who are humans.
Does that mean we need to only follow the Ten Commandments and throw out the rest of the scriptures? Are you and myself capable keeping with absolute perfectness the Ten commands without even breaking one?
As you might know, Jesus targeted those who were staunch ‘literal’ followers of the scriptures and that is why they had him crucified.
No you are wrong .. Read and pay close attention John Chapter 3 as to what he advised the hard-core pharisee Nicodemus that he must be “spiritually born-again” to enter heaven.
Christine Marie (#1271)
2Tim.2:15 (KJV). “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.†Sir, how did you know that you rightfully divided the word of the truth? By taking up verses of 2Tim.2:15 and then jumping back to Is.64:6; and then applying coup d grace (John 14:6) as your final clincher to win the argument?! Is that the way rightly dividing the word of truth?
You have forgotten completely one key element word of 2 Tim 2:15 – and that is “study”. So are we now on this blog “studying” a bible course to learn the entire scriptures? No … we are debating on the topic – “Should we pray to virgin mary? Right??
I see you are simply taking verses of out context. Incidentally for your edification, The King James Bible is the only Bible that God has purely preserved his Holy infallible word, while many Catholic Bible versions are “corrupt”. The word “study” in 2 Timothy 2:15 is only found in the KJV, and has very important significance for persons with average intelligence as God commands us to study.
I have quoted Isaiah 64:6, Mark 12:24 and Hosea 4:6 not of out context, but because it has relevancy and meaning right in this very present age and times we are living in and is rightfully applicable to us also.
As I have told Roy to read what Jesus told Nicodemus the Pharisee in Gospel of John chapter 3. Now the question to you: What Jesus advised Nicodemus … is it only applicable to Nicodemus only? Look a Matthew 7:21 – does it apply to everyone or just to those Jesus spoke?
Not counting thousand more who all professed they know scriptures because of their doctrine of “scripture alone,†which denominations are rightfully dividing the word of truth? All of these Christian denominations were holding the same scriptures you said “God’s love letter to mankind†but have different doctrinal faith contrary to what you have believed.
I agree there are “doctrinal errors” with other Protestant denominations too, likewise how do you know the Roman Catholic Church is preaching the truth?. why did the Bereans search the scriptures daily to compare “new teachings” against what they were taught by St.Paul? Because since biblical times there were plagued with heresies and false teachings and that is why most of the New Testament writings clearly indicate the Apostles were battling with false teachers constantly who sneaked their false teachings in the early christian churches. That is why God says in 2 Timothy 2:15 – Study…!!” so you should not get fooled with by blind obedience. Remember man’s teachings (including priests, popes, you and me) are not “infallible” only Gods Holy Word is infallible.
Now let’s look what Roman catholicism teaches in the Official teachings found in the Catechism also know as the Catechism of The Catholic Church (CCC for short). Now if you are a faithful catholic, what have you been taught in respect to the title of this post – “Should we pray to virgin Mary”? Now can you tell me what is the “official” teaching of the Roman Catholic church on whether catholics must pray or not to the virgin Mary – which is the subject of this post? I will upfront say that majority of catholics are woefully ignorant of what the CCC teaches and this is apart from the scriptures.
I await your response.
Gd Bless
Roy (#1270)
As you might know, Jesus targeted those who were staunch ‘literal’ followers of the scriptures and that is why they had him crucified.
I forgot to add one more question in response to you above statement. Did Jesus target Nicodemus? Or was it Nicodemus who sought Jesus at night?
An again i can debunk the errors in your statement above. Jesus is the Son of God incarnate in the flesh, so he came to earth to “save” lost sinners like you, me and the rest of the human race as per Matthew 18:11 – “For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost” – So he didn’t come target persons who only know the scriptures as you allege. Sorry you are in the dark about the purpose of why Jesus came 2000 years ago. I wonder where you got your story from. Truly amazing and thanks for the laugh :)
@ Sir Alan,
I appreciated your reply, you sound evangelizing us of the true words of God.It would be much better if all Christian avoid upsetting others people’s faith. After all we call and profess our faith with the same name ‘Jesus Christ’ our Lord and Savior.
When you posted your article addressed to me I have already sent my second posting as well.If I had known of your reply ahead of my second posting I have not included unnecessary references about the Christian denominations. My apology I did not wait of your reply!
Sir it is not my intention to test your knowledge about the scriptures but i hope you understand i only reacted to your posting # 1263. I felt something on your letter that threatened my belief and i feel i have to defend my faith when it was been belittled publicly. Pardon me if thou also feel threatened by my remarks.
If you find necessary to correct me on some important points to enhance my faith it would be my pleasure to receive such instruction from you.
I’ll pray for you too, sir. God Bless!
Christine Marie (#1271)
In regards to 2 Timothy 2:15 – the other half that says – “rightly dividing the word of truth”. Off course apart from only interpreting the scriptures contextually, we need to rightly divide the truth. So rightly dividing the word of truth means – time periods how God chose to communicate his message throughout the scriptures and whether those truths are applicable to everyone or just to the nation of Israel. For Instance God saved Noah from the flood by instructing him to build the boat with specific length and breath. So Noah’s salvation came by obeying God’s instruction. In the New Testament God’s plan of salvation is given to all who believe in Jesus Christ through faith and God’s grace (Ephesians 2:8-9), and hence the New Testament salvation plan is the final fulfillment God gives us today through his Son Jesus. However imagine if someone teaches you that in order to get Gods free gift of salvation in this present time, you must build a boat like Noah, than this person is speaking the biblical truth, but it is a “truth misplaced” because Noah’s salvation plan was specific to Noah and not presently applicable to us under the New Testament covenant. This is how one rightly divides the word of truth. The correct term is called “dispensations” and its expounded by St.Paul in Ephesians 1:10. There are 7 dispensations, but it is another subject altogether.
Now lets see whether the Roman Catholic church actually rightly divides the word of truth according to 2 Timothy 2:15. There are many errors that the Roman Catholic church teaches the lay faithful, so lets take the “Roman Catholic Mass” as an example of one of the many errors that is abomination in the eyes of God and violates scripture – the Holy Word of God.
According to the Roman Catholic church, the Mass has been instituted as an “un-bloody sacrifice” of Calvary to remove sin. Is this true in light of the scriptures?
The answer is NO. Because a sacrifice without shedding of blood cannot wash away sins (Leviticus 17:11; Hebrews 9:22). Where as Jesus instituted the Lord’s Supper as a memorial not a sacrifice (Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 11:24).
Jesus Christ became a sin offering for us as he became the fulfillment of the law (John 1:17) in the New Testament as he offered himself as a sacrificial lamb shedding his blood to wipe away our sins and to reconcile us back to God. That was a once for all perfect sacrifice for the sins of the whole world (Hebrews 10:10). So there is no more any offering of sin needed and that is why the Catholic is in error and does not rightly divide the word of truth. It is an abomination in the eyes of God.
Hebrews 10:11 says – And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: In view of this verse, the role of Catholic priesthood becomes obsolete in the New Testament dispensation. Catholics argue on Hebrews 10:11 saying it is only applicable to the Old Testament Levitical Priesthood and cannot be applied to the Catholic Priesthood. Is this true? Again I say No, because whether it is Levitical or Catholic Priesthood – they are one and the same. A priest (levitical or Catholic) are ordained to offer sacrificial worship. But Hebrews 10:11 says IT IS OVER. Jesus Christ became to chief priest who atoned with his blood the sins of the whole world once and for all. AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
Alan (#1273)
God has given many commandments at various times and to different people. The 10 Commandments were given to the Jews through Moses and they were NOT consolidated in to 2. The 2 are what all the others “hang on” which is to say that they are the greater and the 10 are a lesser and more limited version given under a limited covenant made with the Jewish nation.
As Christians we are not under the Law because it no longer applies to us since we have died and our life is hid in Christ. The Law only affects the living.
Instead we live under the unlimited covenant of grace wherein we are commanded to “love one another even as I have loved you” and “do good to all men, especially those of the household of faith”. There is now no way to use a loophole to get out of performing what God requires, which is what the Jewish nation did on many occasions, because the commands we are given are absolute not conditional like those given to the Jews under Moses.
So there are 2 questions to ask then:-
1) Can we sin as much as we like and still be saved since grace is unlimited?
2) If grace is unlimited why isn’t everyone saved?
The answer to the first is “God forbid!” because if we are truly following Christ we see sin as wicked and bad and try to avoid it and repent when we fail to do so. But because grace is unlimited we know that “though he stumble 7 times yet shall he arise” “for God is able to make him stand”.
The second is that God will save every single person who calls upon and believes on the name of Jesus Christ, but if they will not call for salvation then God will not give it. Sadly not one single person naturally seeks after God “there is none righteous, no, not one…..there is none that seeketh after righteousness” and so God has chosen, in His infinite mercy, to use the poor and despised ones of this world to show how great the salvation of God is. In this he shows not only that He is truly merciful but also that if even the weak, poor and worthless of this world can follow Christ then all the rest have no excuse for not following Christ and deserve the wrath of God.
It is sad to see people praying to Mary, praying to saints, praying to Jesus even. We are instructed to pray like this “Our Father, who art in heaven….”
Pray to God the Father by the power of the Spirit and in the Name of Jesus you shall have what you ask for according to your faith and the will of Almighty God. Or you can pray to someone else and trust to luck?
It is also sad to see so called Protestants attacking the Catholics over this issue and allowing divorced remarried people to act as if they are not in a state of sin and even to be ministers! How can people who allow such wickedness dare to point the finger at anyone?
I suggest that before we attack each other we all very carefully amend our own behaviour and then, when we can see clearly, we may be able to help our brothers and sisters remove the speck from their eyes.
May the Lord bless and keep you
Phil
Christine Marie (#1276):
If you find necessary to correct me on some important points to enhance my faith it would be my pleasure to receive such instruction from you. I’ll pray for you too, sir. God Bless!
No problem Christine! God Bless you abundantly to give you strength to seek the truth. Our ultimate goal is to seek the truth to be in heaven with Jesus. The scriptures will reveal that truth.
I never have the slightest intention of attacking people or their faith, but we have to rightfully address and attack the false teaching that is surely going to keep out of heaven. It is detrimental to our eternal destiny. We have to be in a church that is not plagued with doctrinal errors.
I am available on alanalmeida777@yahoo.com. Ever since I became a Christian (born-again) I am at “peace” my heart fully assured that I am right with God. I want to share the excitement with everyone of how my Saviour Jesus Christ redeemed me by his precious blood. I “honor” Mary the Mother of Jesus, the Apostles and All the saints in the body of Christ, but the strong conviction of the Holy Spirit guides me to look only to Jesus because only He is the truth, the Way and the Life (John 14:6)
God Bless to all including Roy and Sheeja. Do seek the truth and have peace and rest for your souls. Cast you heavy burdens on the Lord Jesus and he only will give you complete peace of mind and rest, by you becoming the adored children of the true living God – The Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Ghost.
Phil Saunders (#1278)
It is also sad to see so called Protestants attacking the Catholics over this issue and allowing divorced remarried people to act as if they are not in a state of sin and even to be ministers! How can people who allow such wickedness dare to point the finger at anyone?
Yes we have to tackle these issues and address them head on. No need to feel sad about it and compromise with the truth. Its even a nightmare for parents who children have been abused by pedophiles.
God Bless you too.
All of issues facing in my life, are resolving with the help of God, Jesus and Mother Mary. As I Mentioned earlier doors to my heart are opened for God, Jesus and Mother Mary. Am too living with PEACE in my mind – even if I know I am going to die on next moment, I am not afraid of anything, not even death because Jesus is living in my heart. The Father, the Son (Jesus),the Holy Spirit, Mother Mary and all Saints who are helping to resolve small to critical issues in my life will DEFINITELY there with me during my death too. God will not ask me the exact verses in Bible to test am a Christian or not, but definitely will ask whether I given shelters to shelter-less ones, dressed the needy people, forgive brother’s evilness, live and spread Christianity through life, lived liked a poor even having wealth and other teaches given by Jesus.
GOD bless all of us irrespective of Catholic, Protestant or ‘Born Again’ or any man in this world with true heart and mind. Jesus is searching for the true heart and mind where the Holy Spirit can stay and guide and even the illiterate can speak the verses with the help of Holy Spirit.
May God bless all of us !!!
Sheeja (#1281)
I admire your determination. but how can you be 100% sure that you will be in heaven with Jesus and others in heaven when you die? True.. God will not ask you exact verses in the Bible, but can you explain what is the ASSURANCE you have that you will be in heaven. HINT: The true Living God of The Bible will surely give you the answer.
God Bless
Alan.
Does that mean we need to only follow the Ten Commandments and throw out the rest of the scriptures?
I did not say that. Don’t put words into my mouth.
So he didn’t come target persons who only know the scriptures as you allege.
I didn’t say that either. You conveniently ignored the words “literal follower of the scriptures†and added the word “only†to suit your interpretation.
See how different the meaning becomes when a couple of words are omitted in a sentence? So how can you interpret scriptures by taking sentences and phrases out of the entire passage?
All I said was the scriptures in the Bible are stories and anecdotes given under specific context. Picking out sentences and phrases out of that will not help you gain proper understanding.
Walking in all stages of life – difficult situations or happy moments – is along with Jesus. Holding God’s finger, just like a kid hold’s his father’s hand on watching ocean waves. Lovely parents never throw their Kids to Ocean, The FATHER never throw the beloved ones to HELL. God’s interest in my life,the guidance provided by Holy Spirit and the loving care from Jesus, Mother Mary and blessings from Saints, which I am feeling in all walks of life, is the right way to lead the life that Jesus likes.
May the Jesus stay with all of us, who are ready to hand-over their life’s key to him!!!
Roy (#1283}
See how different the meaning becomes when a couple of words are omitted in a sentence? So how can you interpret scriptures by taking sentences and phrases out of the entire passage?
The same as one can see a different version of the Ten Commandments in the Catechism than the version found in the Catholic Bible, right? eh?
All I said was the scriptures in the Bible are stories and anecdotes given under specific context. Picking out sentences and phrases out of that will not help you gain proper understanding.
Scriptures in the Bible are “stories”?. Wow!! can you be more specific. You mean they are concocted fable stories like “jack and the bean stalk”? or “Snow white and the seven dwarfs?
Sheeja (#1284)
…The FATHER never throw the beloved ones to HELL. God’s interest in my life,the guidance provided by Holy Spirit and the loving care from Jesus …
So if God The FATHER were to ask you on Judgement day the question: UNDER WHAT CRITERIA SHOULD I PERMIT YOU INTO HEAVEN? What would be your answer? Keep in mind that Jesus said in Matthew 7:21 – Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
No need to ask the question by God,if the person lived in earth following the teaches of Jesus. God, who knows even a single hair dropped, is definitely familiar with the my life, my thoughts, my name!!! Think from broad sense, from the view point of Jesus, all members following Jesus are his children.
@Sir alan,
Sir, this is quite a long mail I ask you to bear with me a little of your time as you are instrumental to me to study the words of the scriptures that I may learn somehow to divide rightly the words of truth mentioned in 2Tim.2:15; This encourage me to dig the true meaning of 2Tim.2:15 you had quoted to justify your stand using that verse. “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.â€
And having read commentaries from learned scholars I have come out to the conclusion that may differ to your point of view. I do not wish to go against your interpretation but only to share with you that they are bible commentators who do not agree with your line of understanding of the said verse.
Note: 1 at 2 Tim. 2:15: The word “study” in this passage does not mean to pursue knowledge by reading, etc., but rather it is the Greek verb “SPOUDAZO” which means “to make haste, to exert one’s self, endeavor, and “GIVE DILIGENCE” (Thayer). It involves much more than just taking in knowledge.
The Liberty Bible Commentary states, “Study (Gk. SPOUDAZO) is not the normal word you think of as a student but a word used of a workman meaning ‘give diligence,’ ‘endeavor,’ or ‘exert oneself.'” This is the reason the word “workman” is used later in this same verse.
This Greek word is used ten times in the New Testament and this is the only time it is translated “study.” It was translated “forward” (Gal. 2:10); “endeavoring” (Eph. 4:3); “endeavored” (1 Thes. 2:17); “endeavor” (2 Pet. 1:15); “do. . .diligence” (2 Tim. 4:9, 21); “diligent” (Ti. 3:12, 2 Pet 3:14); and “labour” (Heb. 4:11).
The English word “shew” or “show” was translated from the Greek word “PARISTEMI” which means, “to stand beside, i.e. to exhibit, proffer, (specifically) recommend, (figuratively) substantiate…” (Strong).
Studying doesn’t make us more accepted by God, nor does our lack of study make us less accepted by God.
Note: 2 at 2 Tim. 2:15: It is true that anyone who doesn’t know the Word of God will come to shame. This verse is speaking about all sense of shame being driven from us by an understanding of our righteous position in Christ.
Note: 3 at 2 Tim. 2:15: Shame is a terrible thing that God never intended us to feel. When God created Adam and Eve, they knew no shame (Gen. 2:25). Shame came as a result of sin, and since all have sinned (Rom. 3:23), everyone since Adam and Eve has known shame.
Steven Cole said, what the key is for a saint to be diligent to rightly divide the Word…
So many Christians are haphazard and lazy rather than diligent in their approach to God’s Word. They don’t systematically read, and understand it. If they read it at all, they jump from passage to passage, pulling verses out of context. They aren’t seeking to know God and how He wants them to think, to believe, and to relate to others. Their lives and relationships are falling apart, but they don’t search diligently to discover what God’s Word tells them to do about these problems.
Here is Abacoian version, part of the problem is that á½€Ïθοτομοῦντα (from the verb orthotomew, and translated in KJV as “rightly dividingâ€) is used only here in the NT. Lexicons have similar, yet different meanings: Friberg- cutting a straight path; Louw-Nida- to accurately instruct; Thayer- (1) to cut straight ways; or, (2) to make straight and smooth; Moulton-Milligan: the meaning isn’t clear!!; Gingrich- guide along a straight path.
However, the LXX also uses the term in Proverbs 3:6 and 11:5:
In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight. (Pro 3:6 NAS)
The righteousness of the sincere shall make straight his way; but the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness. (Pro 11:5 JPS) The honest man’s virtue makes his way straight, but by his wickedness the wicked man falls. (Pro 11:5 NAB)
Both occasions orthotomew translates the Hebrew yasar, which, in the two verses above, I think “straight†is the best reading.
If this is so, then perhaps 2 Timothy 2:15 has something like this in mind, “Making straight the word of truthâ€, that is, navigating accurately, honestly, straightly, threw the word of truth.
Just a thought.
The Greek word spoudazo was translated the following ways by the KJV translators: endeavour (Eph. 4:3, 1 Thess. 2:17, 2 Pet. 1:15), do diligence (2 Tim. 4:9, 21), be diligent (Titus 3:12, 2 Pet. 3:14), give diligence (2 Pet. 1:10), be forward (Gal. 2:10), labour (Heb. 4:11), and study (2 Tim. 2:15). It IS INTERESTING THAT KJV-ONLY ADVOCATES CONDEMN THE TRANSLATION OF THIS WORD AS “BE DILIGENT” at 2 Timothy 2:15 in some translations when the KJV translators often translated this word in this same way. Even KJV-only advocate David Cloud gives the meaning of “study” in this verse as “TO GIVE DILIGENCE TO” (Way of Life Encyclopedia, p. 425; Concise KJB Dictionary, p. 84). Waite’s Defined KJB gave the following note or definition for “study” at 2 Timothy 2:15: “Gk be diligent” (p. 1579). The 1755 Johnson’s Dictionary of the English Language as well as the 1828 Webster’s Dictionary gave as one meaning of the verb study: “to endeavour diligently.” Kent Rabe claimed that the Spanish Reina-Valera has “procure with diligence” at 2 Timothy 2:15 (Double Exposure, p. 29). A reprint of the 1602 Spanish Bible began 2 Timothy 2:15 as follows: “Procura con diligencia.“ The 1657 English translation of the authorized Dutch Bible began the text of 2 Timothy 2:15 as follows: “GIVE DILIGENCE.”
And you are correct to indicate that it is only in the KJV we can find this translation “Studyâ€! These are the long lists of other translation different to the original KJV as follows;
ASV: Give diligence to present thyself approved; unto God;
CEB: Make an effort to present yourself to God as a tried-and-true worker;
RHE: Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God; BBE: Let it be your care to get the approval of God;
CJV: Do all you can to present yourself to God as someone worthy of his approval;
ESV: Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved;
HNV: Give diligence to present yourself approved by God;
NAS: Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed;
NIV: Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved;
(lastly), NKJV: Be diligent to present yourself approved to God;
You have said, “The King James Bible is the only Bible that God has purely preserved his Holy infallible word†while many Catholic Bible versions are “corruptâ€. This indicates to me a misrepresentation of fact, because the later version (NKJV) has corrected the glaring faulty translation of the original. (NKJV) 2Tim.2:15; “Be diligent to present yourself approved to GodïŠ.
Aside from this, there were translations of KJV that somewhat may change the meaning the context of the text. Here are some examplesïŒ :
Point one:
(Romans1:3) KJV says that Christ was “MADE†(CREATED)? Below are the following translations of other versions which to my opinion are more precise.
NLT: The Good News is about his Son. In his earthly life he was (BORN) into King David’s family line;
Aramaic bible in English: About his Son, who is (BEGOTTEN) in the flesh from the seed of the house of David;
NIV: regarding his Son, who as to his (HUMAN NATURE) was a descendant of David;
ERV: concerning his Son, who was (BORN) of the seed of David according to the flesh,
YLT: concerning His Son, who (IS COME) of the seed of David according to the flesh,
JBT:( Jerusalem) according to (HUMAN NATURE) he took, was a descendant of David:
Conclusion: Nowhere in the Bible that said Jesus was created! In John 1:14 the same was translated: “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.†See how inconsistent the KJV are- “the word made flesh†and then afterwards stating “the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,ïŠfull of grace and truth.†Made (created) and Begotten each are having different meanings.ïŒ
Point two:
(1Cor.9:5) KJV says, “Have we not power to lead about a sister, a (WOMAN), as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord,†this text is almost copied by all translators of the Bible in their respective versions except the Douay Rheims, the Aramaic Bible and the Jerusalem Bible
NLT: The Good News is about his Son. In his earthly life he was (BORN) into King David’s family line;
Aramaic bible in English: About his Son, who is (BEGOTTEN) in the flesh from the seed of the house of David;
NIV: regarding his Son, who as to his (HUMAN NATURE) was a descendant of David;
ERV: concerning his Son, who was (BORN) of the seed of David according to the flesh,
YLT: concerning His Son, who (IS COME) of the seed of David according to the flesh,
JBT:( Jerusalem) according to (HUMAN NATURE) he took, was a descendant of David:
Corinthians 9:5 Douay-Rheims, Aramaic Bible & Jerusalem Bible:
Have we not power to carry about a “WOMANâ€, a sister as well as the rest of the apostles and the brethren of the Lord and Cephas?
1 Corinthians 7:5; KJV
For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
In the Roman world, Corinth had such a reputation for sexual excess that a common term for a prostitute was a “Corinthian Girl†or a “Corinthian companion.†Furthermore, the word korinthiazomai (“to Corinthianizeâ€) meant “to practice sexual immorality.†Thus we can easily understand why the believers there wanted to know what God expected concerning sexual purity. His answer is clear: rather than be tempted and fall into sin, it is better to marry.
1 Corinthians 7 contains some of the clearest teaching in the Bible concern¬ing abstinence before marriage, celibacy, sexual intercourse inside and outside of marriage, and sexual obligations. The people of Corinth were interested in proper sexual behavior and had written to the Apostle Paul about it. By revelation, he answered their questions.
1 Corinthians 7:1
Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.
God says it is good not to marry, and later in the chapter, He gives some reasons why that is so. Marriage brings on an added dimension of responsibilities, concerns, and challenges. It can be determined from reading the context, and the chapter as a whole, that a major truth being communicated in the verse is that it is good if a man or woman can stay unmarried. The theme of staying single runs through the entire chapter. Verse seven says: “I wish that all men were as I am†[i.e., unmarried]. Verse 27 continues the theme (and the NASB does an excellent job of translating the verse): “Are you released from a wife? Do not seek a wife.†Verse 28 states, “Those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.†Verses 32-35 point out that the married person has divided interests, taking care of both the Lord and the spouse, while the single person is freer to serve the Lord. The chapter closes with verse 38 saying that a man who does not give his daughter in marriage does better than the man who does (marriages were arranged, and many woman who did not want to marry were pressured and even forced to marry by their family), and with verse 40, the last verse, where Paul says, “In my judgment she [the unmarried woman] is happier if she stays as she is†[single]. Because staying single is a major theme of the entire chapter, and because sexual touch is forbidden only outside marriage, the NIV translators translated verse one as, “It is good for a man not to marry.†In spite of that, however, most people are better off with a godly outlet for their sexual desires, that is, marriage, and that point comes up in Chapter 7.
Conclusion:
In verse 7, Paul writes that he wishes all men were like him (single), and thus could serve the Lord without a spouse and without distraction. So the translation of the KJV original text of 1Cor. 9:5 has put into question (?) BECAUSE ST. PAUL WOULD NOT LIKELY CONTRADICT HIMSELF. The word “WOMAN†was been changed to a “WIFE†to justify his impending marriage to Katharina von Bora that set a model for the practice of clerical marriage, allowing Protestant priests to marryïŠ. This is a clear violation of Rev.22:18-19ïŒ.
Point three:
(KJV) says; “To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.†But Jerusalem Bible states; To God, the only one God, who saves us through Jesus Christ our Lord, be the glory, the majesty, authority and power, which he before the time began, now and fore ever. Amen. Only KJV does translate without (removing) the “through Jesus Christ our Lord;†below are other versions translated by their respective translators in their respective forms.
New Living Translation: (©2007); All glory to him who alone is God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord. All glory, majesty, power, and authority are his before all time, and in the present, and beyond all time! Amen.
English Standard Version: (©2001); to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
New American Standard Bible: (1995); to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
New International Version: (1984) to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
International Standard Version: (2008)
to the only God, our Savior, through jesus the Messiah;
Conclusion: Modern translators leave out many words, phrases and verses that are in the KJV. The Bible tells us not to take away from God’s Word (Dt.4:2; Rev. 22:18-19). I cannot see how supporters of the KJV only position can un-hypocritically say that it isn’t acceptable to remove words, phrases and verses from the KJV but you can remove whole books. Finally, the KJV “leaves out†important words as well. For example “THROUGH JESUS CHRIST our LORD†in Jude 25.
Sir Alan, I can go on of the list of wrong translations but that is unnecessary as I was only after of proving that the King James Bible is “NOT†the only Bible that God has purely preserved his Holy infallible word, KJV does not have the monopoly to the truest sense of the words in the scriptures. (I hope you will agree with me after pointing to you some discrepancies in their translation).ïŠ The KJV has its own faulty interpretations to be adjudged “the only Bible that God had purely preserved His Holy infallible Word.â€ïŒ While Catholic Bible versions are “corrupt†as you have said, that’s unreasonable remarks from youïŒ, and it made me to ïŠ smile for a moment!
Watch your word sir Alan you may building a case that can go against you!
(Mark 12:24);& (Hosea 4:6) are both specific instructions and cannot be applied generally speaking as you wanted it to be in connection with your premise on 2 TIM.2:15 “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.†Sir, I have a question to you remain unanswered, maybe because there were so many of us simultaneously you had entertained at the same time, that you forgot to answer my query. I shall repeat it again sir; did you know that our Lord Jesus Christ had been crucified and put to death because of the connivance of the scribes (Pharisees & the Sadducees) belief and knowledge of the scriptures? How will you reconcile your argument to the glaring truth that had transcribed in the old days and the active denominations in this present day? Please give explanation sir to satisfy my longing to examine and discern the truth of your knowledge of the scriptures.ïŠ
There were so many issues we have on a list that you raised and I suggest we should not take it up all in one setting because it will always end with a long mail just like I have with you now.ïŠ I am interested in (Christ conversation with Nicodemus = Born again, the Roman Catholic Church and your Church, and about Mary). God Bless!
AVE MARIA!
.
Alan.
I am really surprised to find that you are not aware of the stories and examples Jesus gave during his teachings!!
Or may be that could be because you never look at the bible as a whole, but pick out specific sentences and phrases from here and there and try to build an understanding out of it.
Roy (#1289)
We should show some level of respect as far as the scriptures are concerned which is the infallible word of God. The scriptures are not stories. They are the very God breathed words written by human authors who were moved under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Jesus did not give stories. There are called “parables” the right word to be used instead. As Jesus taught mostly in parables and with reference to the Old Testament scriptures.
Even The First Vatican Council declared:
The books the church holds to be sacred and canonical not because she subsequently approved them by her authority after they had been composed by unaided human skill, nor simply because they contain revelation without error, but because being written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and were as such committed to the church.
Since the Bible is the Word of God, even the Catechism of the Catholic Church, (CCC at para #86) says – “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant”.
Sheeja (#1287)
No need to ask the question by God …
You mean to say that God will nor judge you, me or anyone else and will simply allow entry into the kingdom of heaven? Will God simply “wink” and let us in?
Do you know Hebrews 9:27 says – “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment”. Do you understand by this verse that each and everyone God is going to judged the moment you depart from this world?
Why did Jesus say in Matthew 7:21 – Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven?
What is the interpretation of Matthew 7:21? Well Jesus is saying that will be lot of people who will not make it to heaven, because though they say they follow Jesus, but the hearts are far away from Him. Why?? because they trusted their own faulty thinking and refused to acknowledge and obey the “will” the FATHER. Read Matthew 7:21 carefully. Do you know what is the “will” of the FATHER which is in heaven.
If you say, No need to ask the question by God .. than it is some counterfeit God, Jesus you are believing in and not the true living God and Jesus of the Bible. The God and Jesus the Son of God are not only kind. merciful and a loving God, but also “Holy” and a Holy God will judge you for you sins. Do you think you can justify you sins before a Holy God. Do you know that only Jesus can forgive sins and no human being can forgive sins?
God Bless
Every day in my life is submitted to God’s hand and Holy Spirit is guiding me. As Jesus teaches us, to ask for the daily bread, I am thinking of today’s activities to do my best, that God & Jesus likes. My days are passing like this and I am not worry about the Judgement day.
Sheeja (#1292)
No need to ask the question by God … and I am not worry about the Judgement day.
Then you’re worshiping a false God and false Jesus. You are making God and Jesus a “liar” as per Hebrews 9:27. Jesus said in John 12:48 – He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
You are trusting your own self-righteousness with prideness which God hates. The scriptures are clear that those who reject the true Jesus, who is clearly conclusively revealed in His Word, will be judged accordingly.
May the true living God open your eyes to his truths. God Bless.
Only one God exists in this universe and has only one Son – Jesus. There is no false God & false Jesus. The peace available with me with the help of Holy spirit is the evidence for me to prove I am in right way. The same peace keeps me away from future worries including judgement day. Let the God Judge my life.
May God bless all the followers of Jesus,in this world, irrespective of Catholic or ‘Born again’ or Protestant, to build a pure mind similar to sacred heart, where Holy Spirit can stay and guide!!!!
Alan.
Glad to see you coming to understand my point of view. So you know Jesus taught using stories… or parables as you say which may be technically more correct.
But technicalities defined by humans is not the yardstick of respect before God. All over the Bible we see the Pharisees arguing and judging everything and everyone on the basis of such technicalities and how Jesus despised them.
So try to get a broader and simplified understanding of his teachings like a child. That will help you better guide your life than knowing every quote from the Bible.
You know Jesus said to learn from the children.
Sheeja (#1294):
Only one God exists in this universe and has only one Son – Jesus. There is no false God & false Jesus.
Are you sure? :) What about the reference to the Trinity?
The peace available with me with the help of Holy spirit is the evidence for me to prove I am in right way
How can you prove that you have the Holy Spirit that is guiding you in the right way? I will rejoice if you show can me with “clear-cut” proof on how do you know the Holy Spirit is guiding you.
God Bless.
Christine Marie (#1288)
First and foremost .. – ” The KJV cannot be copyrighted because it is the Word of God, yet all the modern versions are copyrighted. Could this mean they are man’s word and not God’s? Think about it! THINK ABOUT IT!!! Well, let us begin our study without further ado.
I must also point out that you are not actually serious wanting to do a Bible Study but have instead copy/pasted stuff (commentaries) from other websites posted by persons other than you. This is not a Spirit led study you are doing and its obvious you are getting misled.
Most of the stuff I see you have copy/pasted from .
The Bible is also clear that God will never hear the prayers of un-believers. Ocassionally God may give some understading when a un-believer tries to interpret the Word of God. The prime requirement for Bible study requires a person to become a true believer (a child of God) by being – born again. The believer is in-dwelled by the Holy Spirit who guides the believer when studying the scriptures – revealing God’s truths therein.
I am not a Bible scholar but i am a believer, I try my level best to interpret the scriptures. However I do believe (and I have followed it myself) that “studying” commentaries of other Bible scholars is not recommended for new believers. Till date, I prefer to be led by the Holy Spirit instead of reading commentaries of others which are interpretations of mere man. If i seek information when studying a book of the Bible, at most i will search for historical bakground information about the Book and its author’s intended audience. This is very important infornation to grasp as the knowledge will rightly help to divide the Word of truth. Do not rely wholeheartedly on Bible commentaries. I may use Concordance at times. I will in the newr future try to read some commentaries but I will never fully agree with the notes till I have crossed checked in the Bible thru’ the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
EXPOSITION OF 2 TIMOTHY 2:15
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Study – Be eager or diligent
Approved – Acceptable or tested
Workman – Laborer or doer
Rightly dividing – Rightly handling or cutting straight
The word behind “study†in the Greek is in the Imperative Mood making this a command to all believers. The word “study†does not necessarily mean to study like one studies for a test, yet, that is part of it. We continue to study the Scriptures and as we understand more of them by the indwelling Holy Spirit, there will be an eagerness in us to share the word with others. As this verse teaches, we are diligent in our Christian walk so we may be approved unto God. This does not mean we are working for salvation because that would mean you are unsaved and no unbeliever trying to work their way to Heaven will ever be approved by God. This command is to true believers who have an eagerness to become strong Christians. Now we are approved unto God as workmen, and those workmen are not just sitting around but are busy in the sending forth of the Gospel.
I prefer “Study” since its an explicit direct command God tells us to study the scriptures. The College teacher will usually instruct the students to prepare for the upcoming board exams by saying: “study” for the upcoming exams. No teacher have I heard who said: be “dillengent” or “eager” for the upcoming exams.
“Diligence” means to be eager – e.g. Do thy diligence to come shortly unto me: 2 Tim 4:9. In this verse the St.Paul is asking Timothy he should be dillengent or to make haste or be eager to come to him.
Diligence is to make an earnest effort http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/diligence?s=t&ld=1061
Study is a explicit command
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/study?s=t
[Side notes]:
I can be “diligent” in my endeavor without any “study”, but I can “study” to be diligent with a purpose and a plan.
“Study” requires reference and consideration, while diligence and aspire only require dedication to a cause.
The NKJV renderings of the Greek actually harm the reader in the lack of offering the believer to know what is the mind of God.
Language changes, but God and His intent never have, never will.
As evil men and seducers change,along with their language, the word of God should remain the same, y’know, just as God remains the same.
=================================
You have said, “The King James Bible is the only Bible that God has purely preserved his Holy infallible word†while many Catholic Bible versions are “corruptâ€. This indicates to me a misrepresentation of fact, because the later version (NKJV) has corrected the glaring faulty translation of the original. (NKJV) 2Tim.2:15; “Be diligent to present yourself approved to God?.
You have been falsely misled. As said earlier, the KJV cannot be copyrighted because it is the Word of God. The NKJV or the New King James translation is not a later version of the KJV – it is independent. The NKJV is a satanic deception. The NKJV is copyrighted by Thomas Nelson Publishers who are pro-Roman Catholic sympathesizers. See 448 Reasons Why I Cannot Trust Any Modern Bible Version at .
Basicallly what other Bible translations other than the KJV do is attack the deity and gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. That is what I meant when I said all modern translations including Catholic Bibles are “corrupt” because they “attack” the deity of the Lord Jesus. They NKJV removes the word “Hell” and replaces it with “Hades”.
Bible translations other than the KJV also deny the existence of the “Trinity”. Let me give one example below:
The word “Trinity” which is the term used to represent the Godhead (The Father, the Son-Jesus and the Holy Ghost) is not explicityly found in any Bible translation, but the concept is taught in the KJV only. Make careful comparisons between the two Bible transalations NABRE and KJV. See below and you will notice how the KJV gives reverence to the concept of the Trinity (very important doctrine), while the NABRE corrupts it showing the handiwork of Satan behind the scenes. The same is with other Bible translations. See 448 reasons link above. See the List of ommissions of the NKJV. Some Bible translation even “omit” the entire verse of 1 John 5:7 altogether. Why would God remove or take away some verses in some translations? Any translation that attacks the doctrine or deity of the Lord Jesus Christ is a “satanic bible”. You will see the Catholic NABRE bible is “poor” and vague indeed. This is exactly why I say the Catholic Bibles are corrupted because they attack the GodHead and Jesus Christ.
1 John 5:7 (NABRE – Catholic Bible online version at – So there are three that testify.
1 John 5:7 (KJV) – For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Point one:
(Romans1:3) KJV says that Christ was “MADE†(CREATED)? Below are the following translations of other versions which to my opinion are more precise.
Conclusion: Nowhere in the Bible that said Jesus was created! In John 1:14 the same was translated: “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.†See how inconsistent the KJV are- “the word made flesh†and then afterwards stating “the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,?full of grace and truth.†Made (created) and Begotten each are having different meanings.?
The KJV is powered by a 16th Century old English language which is different in comparison with Modern English, hence “WHICH WAS MADE” means Jesus is God Himself manisfested in the human flesh – you have skipped the last part of the verse that gives the clue: as in “according to the flesh”. Begotten means Jesus was not created. He always was, always is, and always will be. In the Bible the word “begotten” is used to imply a father-son relationship (ex. “Abraham begot Isaac” Matthew 1:2). In the Nicene Creed is says “beogotten not made” – if you remember. So I see no difference.
==============
Finally, the KJV “leaves out†important words as well. For example “THROUGH JESUS CHRIST our LORD†in Jude 25.
The phrase that you mentioned about “THROUGH JESUS CHRIST our LORD” was added to the text by corrupted manuscripts.
The corrupted manuscripts are:
Aleph 01 – Sinaiticus – Fourth century
A 02 – Alexandrinus – Fifth century
B 03 – Vaticanus – Fourth century
C 04 – Ephraemi Rescriptus – Fifth century
L 020 – Ninth century
The phrase is not found in the following Greek texts:
The Byzantine Text (450-1450 A.D.)
Stephanus Text (1550 A.D.)
Elzivers Greek text (1624 & 1633)
Scriveners Text (1894)
An Example using KJV and American Standard Version (ASV):
Jude 1:25 (KJV) To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Jude 1:25 (1901 ASV) to the only God our Saviour, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and power, before all time, and now, and for evermore. Amen.
If you notice the way the KJV is worded, it is giving glory to the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior but if you look at the way the 1901 ASV is worded, and it is representative of the modern versions, it takes away from the Lord Jesus Christ that He is the Savior. We know that God the Father orchestrated the entire salvation plan and it was carried out by the Lord Jesus Christ who is the second person of the Godhead (Trinity). The modern versions make it sound like God is the Savior but only through the Lord Jesus Christ. What it does is, it skips over the Lord Jesus as being both God and our Savior. In other words by adding that phrase here, it attacks the doctrine of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The KJV has the word “wise” and is missing in other Bible transalations why?? KJV is right because all human wisdom come from God. Wissom of God makes us wise. So Gods is wise as he imparts wisdom to mankind. The Bible translations that omit “wise” are trying to show that being wise is human centric and wisdom come from man instead of God. If you are minutely observant, you will recognise satan’s deception.
======================
I will respond to your other questions in a few days time. Hope what i’ve written will be a blessing to you.
I am listening God’s Voice with the help of Holy Spirit. Before taking any decision by own, I submit the activity to Holy Spirit and will wait to hear God’s voice. The time I spent to hear the God’s voice is reflected when I saw the result of that activity. As an example – an e-mail send to my Boss or to my friend, is first submitted to God and the result of that mail, might be happy or sad, but it will be shared with Trinity – Father, Son & Holy Spirit- leads to maintain peace with me. The result of such activities never fallen me down because I am under the God’s Wing.
@Sir Alan,
“I must also point out that you are not actually serious wanting to do a Bible Study but have instead copy/pasted stuff (commentaries) from other websites posted by persons other than you. This is not a Spirit led study you are doing and its obvious you are getting misled.
Most of the stuff I see you have copy/pasted from…â€
The way I understand your statement above you seem suggesting that I have taken the wrong course of digging to other learned Bible scholars or commentators for references to check your interpretations in a given verse you quoted. Restricting me to search additional knowledge somewhere will contradict your own stand (advice to Christian) and reading only your comments will defeat the purpose to learn more through “studying†as you have suggested in 2Tim.2:15, and yet, you can allow yourself quoting from different sources of information anytime you want. Please do not force me to post your inconsistency on this issue! You are no different to other truth seekers who also wish to share their personal view of interpreting passages from the Bible. (…reading commentaries of others which are interpretations of mere man.) And that you cannot claim that your view is much superior compare to them, hope you get what I mean.
And also I purposely not deleted the names of commentators in my letter for you to check, knowing you can easily trace the source of my references. Sadly you viewed their opinions on a negative side as if, you are the only one enlightened by the Holy Spirit to interpret rightly the passages in the scriptures.
And also you are quick to undermine the works of dedicated persons (translators) to propagate through their self sacrifice the words of God to their respective versions calling them “corrupt†& “satanic deceptionâ€. That is the most irresponsible comment I ever heard of in this forum.
Sir may ask you, did you really know who was the original person the KJV translators base their works of translating it into old English? You seem not aware of the history from what source the KJV’s base their translation? Did you know the differences between the KJV and modern translations amount to about one percent only of the text. Yet you are so virulent and spiteful of your attack on the modern versions of today’s bible? Did you know that KJV did originally include the Apocrypha, but it was also the KJV that stopped including the Apocrypha, which at present unfortunately taken the whole (7)books, a clear violation of Rev.22:18-19?
“WHICH WAS MADE†means Jesus is God Himself manisfested in the human flesh –
Precisely, God manifested in human flesh but not made! As correctly implied in the Nicene Creed-Begotten not made!
– you have skipped the last part of the verse that gives the clue: as in “according to the fleshâ€.
My KJV says – “14 and the word was
made flesh,and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Sir the word “according to the flesh†was not included in the text, I believe this is what you mean in “which was made†connecting it to “according to the flesh†am I correct sir? Please clarify so that we can avoid the miss presentation of fact!
“If you notice the way the KJV is worded, it is giving glory to the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviorâ€
Alright we shall examine your premise if it shall pass the test of reason and I will extract (copy and paste) your very own words to save me my presentation of fact.
“Jude 1:25 (KJV) To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.â€
Maybe you can now see the glaring inconsistency of your statement. I will comment no longer, the record speaks for itself after all we are not here in this forum to destroy ourselves.(1Cor.1:19) “ I shall destroy the wisdom of the wise and bring nothing all the learning of the learned†says the Lord; (1Cor.3:19) ‘The Lord knows wise men’s thoughts: He knows how useless they are;â€
Lastly, I will again use your very own argument “we know that God the Father orchestrated the entire salvation plan and it was carried out by (or THROUGH) the Lord Jesus Christ.†And this will be more comfortable with the meaning of Jude 25 to make KJV more accurate!
Sir, I hope you see now the difference!
AVE MARIA!
Sheeja (#1298)
I am listening God’s Voice with the help of Holy Spirit. Before taking any decision by own, I submit the activity to Holy Spirit and will wait to hear God’s voice.
Looks like you are practicing contemplative spirituality or lectio divina meditation which instructs a person to go to a quite place, empty his/her mind and silently listen to the voice of God. This is a form of monastic prayer that trains you to listen to the voice of God, but the origins of these forms of meditation are not Christian neither biblical. Their origins come form eastern pagan religions. So one is obviously deceived easily. Gods voice can only be heard as he guides us via the scriptures. When we read and study the scriptures, God talks back to us and we are 100% sure through the in-dwelling Holy Spirit. The sciptures are clear that God communicates the truths of His Holy and infallible word, as we prayerfully read the scriptures. A person has the in-dwelling Holy spirit guidance only after being spiritually born-again. So faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Yet you are so virulent and spiteful of your attack on the modern versions of today’s bible? Did you know that KJV did originally include the Apocrypha, but it was also the KJV that stopped including the Apocrypha, which at present unfortunately taken the whole (7)books, a clear violation of Rev.22:18-19?
The KJV did include the 7 apocrypha books but they were included grouped together between Old and New Testament. They were only included for private reading of edification but not to be used in Churches for exhorting doctrine as they are not inspired as they contained spurious teachings that is not inspired of God. They were later removed as the KJV translators decided to base the books of the Old Testament on the Hebrew Canon containing only 39 inspired books. The RC church decided to include the spurious apocrypha basing it on the Greek translation of the Old Testament called the “septuagint or LLX†– which is another hoax and have mixed the 7 apocrypha in between the other inspired books of the Old Testament. Take your pick!!
My KJV says – “14 and the word was
made flesh,and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Sir the word “according to the flesh†was not included in the text, I believe this is what you mean in “which was made†connecting it to “according to the flesh†am I correct sir? Please clarify so that we can avoid the miss presentation of fact!
You have mis-understood what I have written earlier. “according to the flesh†was in reference to Romans 1:3 and not John 1:14.
I must point out that the topic of this post is titled – SHOULD WE PRAY TO VIGIN MARY? – people till date have post argument for and against. Well.. no body has considered what the RC Church actually says in its official teachings of the Catechism (CCC). The surprising answer is that the RC Church officially does only state that Virgin Mary and saints can only be “honoured†and not prayed to or worshipped.
@ sheeja,
I appreciate your concern in submitting your opinion to holy spirit,
My dear ones,
The scriptures which were written in past are written by people like you and me. However with conceieve of holy spirit.
Thats the reason my dear ones ask God to fill us with his spirit and guide us when we study Bible as well.
The same spirit which worked when those people wrote will guide us today as well, cause his spirit is unchanging yesterday today and forever…
What is Faith? People have diverse interpretations as to what is faith, while others struggle over their faith. Hear this beautiful sermon by Baptist preacher Late Adrian Rogers on what is Faith!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Io13m9NWV8
@Sir Alan ,
“The RC church decided to include the spurious apocrypha basing it on the Greek translation of the Old Testament called the “septuagint or LLX†– which is another hoax and have mixed the 7 apocrypha in between the other inspired books of the Old Testament. Take your pick!!â€
Sir, we are almost nearing its end of issues pertaining KJV “the only Bible that God has purely preserved his Holy infallible word???†There were some questions on same paragraph that you have failed to include in your latest response, if thou feel desire leaves you out or it is unnecessary to respond I can consider your reason. I can live with it! By the way, before I leave this issue I will pick the original 73 books (with the Deuterocanonicals) rather than 66 books, which for some reason taken out by Martin Luther because it proves and emphasize several doctrines we can find in the teachings of the Catholic Church that had none in your 66 books.
(Food for thought) ST. Jerome about the Deuterocanonicals!
Furthermore, it can be documented that in his later years Jerome did accept certain deuterocanonical parts of the Bible. In his reply to Rufinus, he stoutly defended the deuterocanonical portions of Daniel even though the Jews of his day did not.
He wrote, “What sin have I committed if I followed the judgment of the churches? But he who brings charges against me for relating the objections that the Hebrews are wont to raise against the story of Susanna, the Son of the Three Children, and the story of Bel and the Dragon, which are not found in the Hebrew volume, proves that he is just a foolish sycophant. For I was not relating my own personal views, but rather the remarks that they [the Jews] are wont to make against us” (Against Rufinus11:33 [A.D. 402]). Thus Jerome acknowledged the principle by which the canon was settled — the judgment of the Church, not of later Jews. (From James Akin file record)
“Romans 1:3: “which was made†of the seed of David “according to the flesh;â€
Thank you for the clarification sir, any which way you rephrase this given text the meaning would be the same because the word Made will always equate Created!
Before I forget sir, How will you reconcile 1Cor.9:5 “WIFE†(translation) to 1 Cor.7:9, “I wish that all men were as I am†[i.e., unmarried]??
“I must point out that the topic of this post is titled – SHOULD WE PRAY TO VIGIN MARY? – people till date have post argument for and against. Well.. no body has considered what the RC Church actually says in its official teachings of the Catechism (CCC). The surprising answer is that the RC Church officially does only state that Virgin Mary and saints can only be “honoured†and not prayed to or worshipped.â€
I Assure you sir that that I love this topic very much. We shall discuss this topic in a near future after threshing out some left over issues that remain vague to me (unanswered) from your point of view. I have a feeling I shall be completely void of important thoughts and instruction until satisfied of your explanations.
Can you lay down for me on your next post some important details of the doctrine of the Born Again Christian? I love very much to hear it from you sir. Thank you, may the Almighty God bless you always!
Ave Maria!
Christine Marie (#1304)
Yes Jerome did include the Apocrypha books, but it was against his original decision. The Pope at that time issued a “papal bull” which is sort of an ORDER or directive to include them otherwise he would be certainly “burnt” at the stake during the Roman Catholic inquisition murders instituted that killed countless of Bible believing Christians for the faith only in the Word of God. Jimmy Akin is a Catholic Apologist like Steve Ray, Patrick Madrid and host of others who are “highly-trained” puppets of the Vatican hired specifically to spread lies under the guise of defending the Roman Catholic Pagan faith.
This is what Jerome actually said of the Apocrypha for which majority of Catholics would not know but the RC Church is sly to hide it from the lay faithful.
Question: St Jerome was persuaded, against his original inclination, to include the deuterocanonicals in his Vulgate edition of the Scriptures. What are your comments?
Answer: True, yet he classed the Apocrypha in a separated category. He differentiated between the canonical books and ecclesiastical books, which he did not recognize as authoritative Scripture. This is admitted by the modern Catholic church:
“St. Jerome distinguished between canonical books and ecclesiastical books. The latter he judged were circulated by the Church as good spiritual reading but were not recognized as authoritative Scripture. The situation remained unclear in the ensuing centuries…For example, John of Damascus, Gregory the Great, Walafrid, Nicolas of Lyra and Tostado continued to doubt the canonicity of the deuterocanonical books. According to Catholic doctrine, the proximate criterion of the biblical canon is the infallible decision of the Church. This decision was not given until rather late in the history of the Church at the Council of Trent. The Council of Trent definitively settled the matter of the Old Testament Canon. That this had not been done previously is apparent from the uncertainty that persisted up to the time of Trent†(The New Catholic Encyclopedia, The Canon).
The practice of the Church up to the time of the Reformation was to follow the judgment of Jerome who rejected the Old Testament apocrypha on the grounds that these books were never part of the Jewish canon. These were permissible to be read in the churches for the purposes of edification but were never considered authoritative for establishing doctrine. The Protestants did nothing new when they rejected the apocrypha as authoritative Scripture. It was the Roman church that rejected this tradition and ‘canonized’ the ecclesiastical books.
Please read the following explanation from the Roman Catholic Cardinal Cajetan, a contemporary of Martin Luther:
“Here we close our commentaries on the historical books of the Old Testament. For the rest (that is, Judith, Tobit, and the books of Maccabees) are counted by St. Jerome out of the canonical books, and are placed amongst the apocrypha, along with Wisdom and Ecciesiasticus, as is plain from the Protogus Galeatus. Nor be thou disturbed, like a raw scholar, if thou shouldest find anywhere, either in the sacred councils or the sacred doctors, these books reckoned as canonical. For the words as well of councils as of doctors are to be reduced to the correction of Jerome. Now, according to his judgment, in the epistle to the bishops Chromatius and Heliodorus, these books (and any other like books in the canon of the Bible) are not canonical, that is, not in the nature of a rule for confirming matters of faith. Yet, they may be called canonical, that is, in the nature of a rule for the edification of the faithful, as being received and authorised in the canon of the Bible for that purpose. By the help of this distinction thou mayest see thy way clearly through that which Augustine says, and what is written in the provincial council of Carthage.” (Cardinal Cajetan, “Commentary on all the Authentic Historical Books of the Old Testament,” cited by William Whitaker in “A Disputation on Holy Scripture,” Cambridge: Parker Society (1849), p. 424)
The apocrypha are useful for edification, but canonical in the sense that they are the rule for confirming matters of faith, no.
Moses Daniel (#1302)
The same spirit which worked when those people wrote will guide us today as well, cause his spirit is unchanging yesterday today and forever.
AMEN!!!
Christine Marie (#1304)
I will pick the original 73 books (with the Deuterocanonicals) rather than 66 books, which for some reason taken out by Martin Luther because it proves and emphasize several doctrines we can find in the teachings of the Catholic Church that had none in your 66 books.
This is another “lie” that Roman Catholics are told that Martin Luther (ex-catholic priest) removed the 7 books. After all the devils is smart enough to look for scapegoats.
One of the reason I stopped being a catholic, was because of the different beliefs. Why do catholics pray to Mary? I can’t understand why do they pray to her, while Jesus is the only way. I’ve heard that because Catholics believe that Mary has some strange power over Jesus since she’s her mother. But nowhere in the the bible do you find Jesus giving you intructions about how to talk (pray) to Mary. However, He does show you how to pray to the Heavenly Father. Mary was an instrument for God to be born as a human. When I say that she was an “instrument”, in no way am I disrespecting her. We are all intruments of God, to make His will come true. One day we will all be standing infront of God, and he will judge us by what we did when we were alive. My believe is that we won’t be judge by how many times we did things right vs. how many times we did not, but much rather that we will be judge by the Ten Commandments. If you were to be judge by the Ten Commandments then, were do you leave commandments #1- Do not worship any other gods. & #2- Do not make any idols…? Accourding to bible, anything you worship can become YOUR god. The bible also teaches us that every god is a false god, except God. You could be worshiping your car and suddently, your car takes Jesus place. WHY? Because the time you are dedicating to your car, either to wash it, admire it or even show it off, it’s time you could of been dedicating to Jesus. With that been said, I can explain further why praying to Mary is not right in the eyes of God. First of all, Mary was created by God. She wouldn’t of existed if it wasn’t for God. So the theory of Mary being able to be interced for us is just wrong. Unless of course you would be able to prove it with the bible. But nowhere in the bible does is show that Mary was interciding for anyone. The bible doesn’t shows us anywhere that Mary had that kind of power. When Mary asked Jesus to turn the water in wine and Jesus did it, doesn’t prove nor does it emply that Mary has some kind of power over Jesus! If that wasn’t true will then don’t you think that the other people which Jesus performed miracles on when they had aske Him, should be holy, or have the same kind of importance as Mary does. After all, Jesus did obey them too. But that’s not the case. Jesus said, who’s my mother and who’s my brothers but those who lissen to my words and obey Me. I believe that we are all special and important in the eyes of God. We don’t need anyone, and yes that included Mary, to interced for us. Because Jesus also said, ‘Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.’ If Jesus said those worlds, do you really think He was lying? He was not! He never in the bible even imply that we have to follow Mary. When you follow someone you suddenly find yourself looking up to that person, even praying to that person. Jesus said you should not have any other gods, yet I see a lot of people worshiping saints. The saints have becomed their gods, whether they notice it or not. Also, Jesus said I am a jealouse God. How do you think He feels when you are running to Mary’s feet instead of God’s. These are just some few thoughts, if you want to know more just let me know. I don’t want to keep going if no one is going to take it in mind. I do hope thought that someone out there is readying this and taking it to mind.
@Sir Alan,
(Just a thought)
From the Latin Vulgate/Septuagint (Greek)minus the Seven hidden Books equals KJV-66 books!
73 BOOKS ORIGINAL
-7 BOOKS THE PERFECT NUMBER
_____
66 BOOKS LEFT=UNPERFECT NUMBER
In numerology, everybody knows 66 is the sign of the bad omen! If you are observant this number will give you a creep.
AVE MARIA!
Hello Dears, i could not resist entering here again. many people tried to prove that catholic doctrine is origin and true. in that some tried reasonably but many were utterly foolishness (sorry, sorry). with the help of concordance some people tried to compare, wherever a queen or mother or virgin appear to be Mary. IF, again I say IF, GOD give a chance to Mary to wake up and look at the present state of Catholics, the grievance will be many time more than when she saw JESUS on the cross. And she would certainly PLEAD for them to GOD for forgiveness of their sin, that they are adoring her instead the Living GOD.
Dear Christine Marie, as I gone through your postings, the very first only(#1266)-Bad omen??- you lied that you are not well versed in Bible. I think you are a good Bible reader and History also your favorite subject. but your above postings shows, you are just trying to prove your superiority to Sir Alan. you just tell us, what all of us have to do. not to believe the Promises of GOD? Not to follow the Path of GOD? Not to accept the advises of GOD? not to obey the commands of GOD? not to enjoy the Love of the Loving GOD? to deceive GOD’s plans? or you tell us that, there are something greater power than GOD, to that GOD obeys all. or GOD is a liar HE don’t keep His promises. Sir Alan accepted correction so now he is saved. and as per GOD’S law He is trying to correct the wrong doers. pro29:1 says, He who resists correction will be broken suddenly and without remedy.
you love to read histories. why don’t you read the histories of all popes? what are the changes they have done in the Church. being a Catholic priest, what was the prime reason for Martin Luther to protest against pope? why was John Hus murdered? read the histories of Roman Emperors. try your level best to understand our GOD. GOD Bless you.
Sister Shyla,
It think me twice whether I have to respond to your letter or not, (#1310) actually this is my second letter already (I sent to recycle bin the first one) because the (first) thought of replying may seem an exercise of futility. But for clarification and fairness of your wrong notion I decided to go against my first will.
First of all, sir Alan and I have a very nice discussion and I believe we respected each other opinion, mutually he knows very much my position and likewise one time I have commended him (see #1276) for a well written letter addressed to me. He was instrumental that propelled me to read more about scripture. Remember 2Tim.2:15, about “study� Though he has some pointer of good thought that I acknowledged for the nourishment of my soul but not all I kept especially if it contradicts to my opinion and understanding.
You think I lied because of your wrong perception, “you lied that you are not well versed in Bible.†but to tell you honestly, (I used to be only a listener before) I started desiring the words from bible last February this year and with the aid of the computer now a day it is easy to dig more when there were subjects you really wanted to know and it resulted that sir Alan was my first test if my understanding and opinion can stand to strengthen my faith. It is only our opinions that collide but we respect each other and I have a lot to be thankful with him and I respected the man.
Sister Shyla I want you to know that I long to read from a protestant believers in this forum to share their knowledge in the scripture (by way of preaching or sharing the Gospel) without attacking other people’s faith. I almost read the entire postings here in this forum and sadly to note I haven’t seen any that may lead me to believe the true meaning of their GOSPEL. There was some close but evidently hidden agenda undress later when tested with comments. Can they not share God’s gift of wisdom without destroying others faith? Would you admonish Catholics whose only intention is to defend their FAITH when had been attacked? Would you blame us when you feel that your argument had been destroyed? In the first place Catholics did not started to be combative in the beginning but you did. That’s the difference between Protestants and Catholics, you are trained to attack but we are here to defend. 1Peter3:15 “Always be ready to give answer to anyone who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence…â€
…â€but your above postings shows, you are just trying to prove your superiority to Sir Alan. you just tell us, what all of us have to do. not to believe the Promises of GOD? Not to follow the Path of GOD? Not to accept the advises of GOD? not to obey the commands of GOD? not to enjoy the Love of the Loving GOD? to deceive GOD’s plans? or you tell us that, there are something greater power than GOD, to that GOD obeys all. or GOD is a liar HE don’t keep His promises. Sir Alan accepted correction so now he is saved. and as per GOD’S law He is trying to correct the wrong doers. pro29:1 says, He who resists correction will be broken suddenly and without remedy.â€
The above comment is the primary reason why I have second thought of responding to your letter but after checking the dialogs I have with sir Alan I firmly believe that you erred tremendously in analyzing our discussion. I believe sir Alan would not agree with you that He “accepted correction†he always had strong points that he can conveniently defend very well and that is what I mean I commended him in my posting #1276. And I have never come across he accepted correction from me. Please give me one instant in his letters that he accepted one, even just once. Your above comments was way off the mark, it seems to me that you are putting words into my mouth. Please do not be hysterical, my sympathy for your cause will always remain but analyze first every issues that we are discussing before commenting so you may avoid the pit that can muddle your white dress for some important occasion.
Now about the Popes, John Hus and history etc… it is not my intention to know everything and be wise. 1Cor.3:20 “God is not convinced by the argument of the wise.†Likewise, I wish your level best that you may understand the way of our God!
Ave Maria!