Why should we pray to Virgin Mary? The reasons are many.
Why do Catholics pray to Mother Mary? Is Rosary really powerful?
The intercession of Mother Mary is very powerful as Jesus cannot neglect His mothers commands.This can be proved by the first miracle Jesus did at the wedding at Cana. – (John 2:1-11). Mother Mary told Jesus “They have no more wine.” And what was the final result? He turned water into wine.
In “The Poem of the Man-God” by Maria Valtorta, she says that Jesus told her about this incident as “I did it for Mary”. This proves that the intercession of Mother Mary is very very strong.
Mother Mary was blessed with Holy Spirit abundantly. We can see this as we read “At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” (Luke 1:39-41) ; just by Virgin Mary’s greeting.
Listen to the talk from Apologetics on Mary, Purgatory and The Bible
What the angels thought on this matter:-
When angel appeared before Zechariah,father of John, angel just greets him by his name ,nothing more although he was “upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commandments and regulations blamelessly.” – (Luke 1:6)
When angel appeared before Joseph, the greeting was like this: “an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” – (Matthew 1:20). Angel greeted him ‘son of david’, thats all.
Now let us see how did the angel greet Virgin Mary. It goes like this: “The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” (Luke 1:28). See the difference….
Also read the article Mary, The Mystical Rose
We keep all of the original book and manuscripts written from and before Jesus Christ. They are not copies of other millions of other people s copies or human writers. WE HAVE THE ORIGINAL BIBLE AND MANUSCRIPTS! We are the only faith in the world who kept all the original manuscripts. Other Christians dont have them! Where are your true bible?
Here is the prove! The disciples died in this place and wrote their books witnesses to Jesus Christ our Lord here in this place!!!
We are the only Christian faith who has all the original books and manuscripts. The desciples wrote their witnesses to Jesus, were guided by the Holly spirit and died here in this place. you do not believe me? Check this web site.
http://asv.vatican.va/
Holy Mary, pray for us…
Queen of heaven
Queen conceived without stain of sin
Ark of the Covenant
Door of heaven
Star of the morning
Healer of the sick
Refuge of sinners
Queen of the angels
Queen of the patriarchs
Queen of the confessors
Queen of all saints
Mystic Rose
Tower of David
Holy Mother of God
Holy Virgin of virgins
Mother of divine grace
Virgin worthy of veneration
Virgin worthy of praise
Powerful virgin
Merciful Virgin
Mirror of righteousness
Throne of wisdom
Source of our joy
Spiritual vessel
Venerable vessel
Yes, these things and many more are said about the Mary of the Rosary, the woman who is presented to us as the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ. Do you really know her? Perhaps you think so because they have told you about her since you were a child, but let’s see if you really know the Mary of the Scriptures.
Take the example of John the Baptist. The Lord Jesus said that John was the greatest of the prophets, but when they asked John, “Who are you?” he refused to take any title or honor for himself. He said, “but admitted, “I am not the Messiah (John 1:20-21)”. Each time he spoke he had less to say about himself, as if he were shrinking! And when they insisted, “What do you have to say for yourself?” he answered, “I am the voice of one crying out in the desert” (John 1:23).
The case of Mary is similar. She was specially blessed of God to conceive and bear the Lord Jesus, and the angel called her “Hail, favored one!” (Luke 1:28). But there is a great distance between this statement and all the titles that the followers and devotees of Mary give her today. And as in the case of John the Baptist, if we allow Mary to speak of herself, this is what she says, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.” (Luke 1:38), and “my spirit rejoices in God my savior” (Luke 1:47). Mary did not lie, I’m sure we agree, and there you have it, she said that God was her Savior, which means she needed to be saved. She knew well who she was, and we have it from her own mouth in the humblest of words.
John the Baptist, the greatest of the prophets, said about the Lord Jesus, “He must increase; I must decrease” (John 3:30). This is the way it was with Mary as well. In John 2:5 she moved into the background and told the servants this about Jesus, “Do whatever he tells you.” If the devotees of Mary really believed her and took her advice, from this moment forward they would be devotees of Jesus Christ, not of Mary. The key to eternal life and the grace of God is the Lord Jesus Christ, not Mary. The Lord Jesus said, “that all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father” (John 5:23). We are not told to honor Mary as divine or heavenly. There is no place in the Scriptures where the Apostles or early Christians prayed to Mary or venerated her. Did you know that there is no Rosary anywhere in the New Testament? When the Lord Jesus spoke of heaven, He said, “Jesus said to him, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6). He never said, “To Jesus through Mary,” but rather, as His words indicate, the way to God the Father is through Jesus Christ.
So let’s not allow ourselves to be deceived, nor allow our respect for Mary to be misguided by man-made traditions or sentimentalism. She is blessed, but she is not the way to God. The Lord Jesus Christ is the way, the only way (see Peter’s words in Acts 4:12).
Who, then, is the Mary of the Bible? To answer that question we will need to go directly to the Scriptures, not to the Missal, prayer book, catechisms, etc. It’s like drinking water right from the fountainhead, instead of the muddy stream. In the Bible we have already seen that the angel said, ” Hail, favored one! ,” and Mary replied, ” Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word “. The Lord Jesus called her, “woman” (John 2:4), not “holy mother”. The Apostles knew her as “Mary the mother of Jesus” (Acts 1:14), not as “Moter of God”. For true believers, here are four texts, one from an angel, one from Mary herself, one from the Lord Jesus, and one from the Apostles, that describe the Biblical Mary.
Strangely, in spite of the clear record, there are people who insist on exalting a humble godly woman and making her something that neither angels, apostles, the Lord nor Mary herself claimed to be: a goddess. Perhaps they are unaware that this is the sin of idolatry, but the Mary that they have fabricated is a religious legend, not the true Mary of the Bible. It is another woman disguised, (satan’s counterfeit) as Mary who receives the devotion of her followers.
She is not the mother of God. No one in heaven, or in the Church in the New Testament called Mary “Mother of God,” because God does not have a mother or a beginning; He is eternal. God the Son existed in heaven in perfect fellowship and glory with the Father before creation (see John 17:5). Mary is the mother of Jesus, simply the human vessel through which God became flesh, blessed to receive the Incarnate Lord, not to make Him.
She is most certainly not the door of heaven, for this is a phrase that describes the Lord Jesus Christ. As with many of her titles, they have apparently been robbed from Christ, long years ago, by people who didn’t really know Him, love Him, follow Him, or find Him to be sufficient as their Savior. And Satan is all the time sacrificing Jesus over and over again on roman catholic altars at a vain mass offering. Were they sincere? Probably. But the simple fact is, they insult the Lord Jesus by taking His titles and giving them to His human mother. He said, “I am the gate. Whoever enters through me will be saved, and will come in and go out and find pasture.” (John 10:9). That is about as clear as it can be. Therefore, to call Mary the door of heaven is nothing less than blasphemy.
She is not the mother of the Church, nor of the apostles (at least not of the true Church), because the Church is a creation of God through the Holy Spirit, just as Adam and Eve were created without human parents. The Church is the bride of the Lord Jesus Christ, not the daughter of Mary. Therefore, to present Mary as the mother of the Church is not mystic, but simply ridiculous.
The Mary of the Bible is not the mother of all grace, because grace proceeds uniquely from God the Father and Jesus Christ (see Gal.1:3; Eph. 1:2; Phil. 1:2; Col. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1, etc.). It is not dispensed by humans but received by them, nor is it dispensed by churches or through sacraments, but only by God. Men should look to God for grace, not to Mary nor to any church.
She is not the throne of wisdom, because wisdom comes from God. She is not given a throne and has no spiritual wisdom to give others. We can learn from her example how to believe God and obey Him in a humble way, but she does not dispense wisdom. True wisdom descends from above, from the Father of lights (James 1:17; 3:17). There is no such thing as a “mother of lights”.
She is emphatically not the queen of heaven, let’s be clear about this, because the Bible never gives her this title. There is no queen ruling in heaven. The throne belongs to God and to the Lamb, but not to Mary (see Revelation 7:15,17; 22:1). In John 14:1 the Lord called heaven, “my Father’s house,” but never said it was His mother’s house. Those who know the Holy Scriptures know that “queen of heaven” is an idolatrous title from the pagan mythology of Babylon (Semiramis), repeated in Egypt (Isis) and elsewhere by other names (see Jeremiah 44:15-19, 25). According to verse 15 of this text, many of the devotees of the pagan “queen of heaven” were women. This pagan practice of devotion to female deities invaded the professing church after the Roman Emperor legalized Christianity and professed to believe, making it popular. Instead of being persecuted, Christians were to be allowed to build temples to worship in, and some pagans erased the names of their gods and goddesses and substituted Biblical names. Instead of the Babylonian mother-god Semiramis and her son Tammuz, or the Egyptian mother-god Isis, and her son Horus, they put the names Mary and Jesus. This practice of devotion to the mother and her son is neither Christian, nor apostolic, nor Biblical.
We are not told to believe in Mary, trust her, nor pray to her. The Lord Jesus said, “You believe in God, believe also in me” (John 14:1) but He never said, “believe also in my mother.” If it were necessary, why didn’t He say so? He taught the disciples to pray in that wonderful way, saying, “Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name” but have you noticed that He never taught them to pray to Mary? Christ said that whatever we ask the Father in His name, will be given us (John 15:16; 16:23). We can go directly to the Father through the Son, and Mary is never presented as a mediatrix or intercessor. No one in the New Testament ever prayed to her. The true Mary cannot hear our prayers nor answer them. She would have to be omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent to do that, and she is not, for she is not God. Anyone who prays to her is guilty of false religion and idolatry.
The Mary of the Bible has already told us who she is. I invite you to look up and read each of the Scriptures, and see for yourself what the truth is in the Bible. The angel Gabriel has spoken. The Holy Apostles have spoken. The Lord Jesus has spoken, and this should be enough. He said, “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30), but never mentioned Mary in this way. Nothing can be added to contradict or modify what the Scriptures say. But if in spite of this anyone continues venerating and practicing devotion to the legendary or mystical Mary that certain churches promote, then such a person shows that he is not a true believer. He is a pagan devotee of a goddess who uses the name of Mary to turn people away and deceive them from the true living God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The title, Mother of God, seems to have first been used in liturgical and devotional practice by Christians in Egypt. – Perhaps??…. but certainly not to the Biblical Mary – the real mother of Jesus. But instead it is the “pagan goddess” mother/baby son combination called Isis and Horus in Egypt, satan’s counterfeits, given the names “Jesus and Mary” – the alleged “Queen of Heaven” mentioned in Jeremiah 44:15-19, 25 . These woman/child combination mysteriously appears in other religions too – In Hinduism (as Devaki/krishna), in Korea (naju), Shingmoo (Japan), etc.
Scripture also proves that Mary is NOT the Mother of God. Look at Luke 2:43. Mary and Joseph knew not of the whereabouts of Jesus after concluding the passover feast. Mary though she is certainly in Heaven alongwith the Apostles/Saints – None of them can answer prayers except God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit. If Mary was the Mother of God, then she would certainly be aware of the whereabouts of Jesus after the Passover feast. But she knew not.
In John 2:5 Mary said – “do as He (Jesus) tells you. This is a clear directive to us all that we have to look to Jesus for eternal salvation and not going round-about in a Hoopla merry go-round. Salvation is found in a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and not through the Church, man made sacraments, priests, bishops, popes, pastors or religion. Be aware that Christianity is not a religion but a personal born-again relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ alone. This is God’s ultimate and only plan of salvation unveiled for mankind.
Friend, if you have venerated or prayed to Mary, I think you can see from the Scriptures such behavior is not pleasing to God. Perhaps you did it sincerely, but in ignorance. Nevertheless, now that you know the truth, you should confess it as sin, repent, and put all your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ alone, for He alone can save you. I hope you’ll take the advice of Mary and do whatever the Son says. He says that we should trust in Him for eternal life (John 3:16). And while you’re at it, take the advice of John the Baptist, too, and let the Lord Jesus Christ increase in your life. The apostolic doctrine teaches us that there is one God and one mediator between God and men, not one God and many mediators. The one whose is both God and Mediator is named Christ Jesus. Do you know Him, and have you put your trust in Him alone for salvation? If not, I hope you’ll do so right now.
I wish to ignore this kind of discussion because this was like a broken record I have heard long time ago but there is no harm explaining the other side of the coin because of their ignorance they fail to comprehend the titles attributed to Her. The long enumeration of titles was designed to confuse its readers but will try to address my answers in a context provided as possible by the scriptures itself.
I will start my departure to Wisdom of Solomon: Unlocking the mysteries hidden during the creation of God.
Wisdom of Solomon has been mentioned in the gospel of (Luke 11:31); “Jesus said: On judgment day the Queen of the South will rise up with the men of this generation and condemn them, because she came from the ends of the earth to listen to the wisdom of Solomon, and see, there is something greater than Solomon is here. There were two schools of thoughts we can look on this statement of Luke. One of these is some Bible scholars refers this to the queen of Sheba mentioned in the Book of Kings, (1Kings 10:1-3) “ The fame of Solomon having reached the queen of Sheba…she came to test him with difficult questions…”And Solomon answered all her questions; there was nothing hidden from the king which he could not explain to her. And when the queen of Sheba had seen all the wisdom of Solomon…†Sheba was The Bible name for an area of what is known today as either southern Saudi Arabia and Yemen, or Ethiopia, or both. Also known as Saba, its people were known as Sabeans. The visit of the Queen of Sheba to King Solomon is one of the most famous stories of Bible History . In the biblical passages which refer explicitly to the Queen of Sheba there are no hints of love or sexual attraction between Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. The two are depicted merely as fellow monarchs engaged in the affairs of state.
The Queen of Sheba is believe to be the Queen of the South, reference, in Matthew 12:42 and Luke 11:31 in the New Testament, where Jesus indicates that she and the Ninevites will judge the generation of Jesus’ contemporaries who rejected him, because of what had been attributed to her in the Book of Kings. Another school of thought is, some Bible scholars believe that The Queen of Sheba was not the Queen of the South, because she did not come from the Ends of the Earth. Now if this is true, can we unlock which of the two arguments may reach to a better conclusion?
Let us pose some questions and see the answers if it may pass the test of reason.
Is the Queen of the South greater than Solomon? Luke answered it yes! “And there is something greater than Solomon is here.†without mentioning other entity but the Queen of the South (and the men of Niniveh to condemn). Take note of the above passage because it will lead us unearthing verses in the scriptures that pertain to judgment day or the first resurrection. Maybe it is good to ask, why Jesus prophesied in this manner where we know that He was the one to judge the living and the dead. (Romans2:16) “On that day when according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.†Is Jesus contradicting himself? Of course not, in fact He was actually supporting what was written by John in revelation (Rev.20:4-5) “Then I saw thrones, and seated on them where those to whom the authority to judge was committed…This is the first resurrection.†Now, we will check the passage some Bible scholars attributed this to the queen of Sheba: (1Kings 10:1-13) “The fame of Solomon having reached the queen of Sheba…she came to test him with difficult questions…on coming to Solomon she opened her mind freely to him; and Solomon had an answer for all her questions, not one of them was too obscure for the king to expound. When the queen of Sheba saw all the Wisdom of Solomon…she said to the king, what I heard in my own country about you and your wisdom was true, then! Until I came and saw it with my own eyes I could not believe what they told me, but clearly they told me less than half: for wisdom and prosperity you surpass the report I heard…†I have not seen any conclusive evidence herein passage the queen of Sheba (1Kings10:1-13) refers to the queen of the South (Luke 11:31) but only to a geographical location. In fact this is what have been written to Solomon; (1Kings 3:12) Yahweh said …“here and now I do what you ask. I give you a heart wise and shrewd as none before you has had and none will have after you…such riches and glory as no other king ever had.†In (1Kings5:9-14), “Yahweh gave Solomon immense wisdom and understanding, and a heart as vast as the sand on the seashore. The Wisdom of Solomon surpassed all the wisdom of the east, and all the wisdom of Egypt. He was wiser than any other, wiser than Ethan the Ezharite, wiser than Heman and Calcol and Darda , the cantors. He composed three thousand proverbs and his songs numbered a thousand and five. He could talk about plants from the cedar in Lebanon to the hyssop growing on the wall; and he could talks of animals, and birds and reptiles and fish. Men from all nations came to hear Solomon’s wisdom, and he received gifts from all the kings of the world, who had heard of his “wisdom.â€Clearly this statement of Yahweh no one can dispute which He pertained to Solomon. And the queen of Sheba by comparison may be less than half as what she said upon witnessing in her own eyes the Wisdom of Solomon. Luke statement “greater than Solomon is here,†does not pertain to the queen of Sheba. Why? Because, he has a better understanding to whom this may refer to.
Now, we shall try to expound the passage “because she came from the ends of the earth to listen to the Wisdom of Solomon;†There is one instant in the gospel of Mathew 11:19, when Jesus said, “Yet wisdom proves right by her actions.†This passage is parallel to the gospel of Luke 7:35; “Yet Wisdom has been proved right by all her children;†Here, Jesus may quoted the verse in the Book of Wisdom “She deploys her strength from one end of the earth to the other, ordering all things for good†(Wis.8:1): We shall again pose question to fill in the blanks to help us discern the clues given to complete the puzzle. Why Jesus uses wisdom in this text, when He himself is wisdom personified? Is He implying that there is still other wisdom personified by the used of the word ‘her’ in this text? Would it be correct to say that the Wisdom of Solomon came from her “for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s Wisdom? And that is why Luke follows his text with, “there is something greater than Solomon is here� Supporting what Jesus had declared because he (Luke) knows to whom this may concerned.
Will try to answer the best we could all the queries we ask by expounding every available passage that resembles the context of the given verses of the text:
We will tackle the first imputed question why Jesus uses wisdom in this text and personified ‘her’, when He himself is wisdom personified? My answer to this is found in the gospel of John6:38 “because I have come from heaven, not to do my own will, but to the will of the one who sent me.†John 1:1-3; “In the beginning was the Word; the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.†Another one; 1 Colossians1:15-16, “He is the image of the unseen God and the first born of all the creation, for in him were created all things in heaven and on earth. These verses have long been taken by Christian exegetes as references to Christ, who is called the “Wisdom of God” (1 Cor. 1:24) by Saint Paul the Apostle. These were the best answers we can get of Jesus being personified wisdom.
Second (and third) imputed questions: Is He (Jesus) implying that there is still other wisdom personified by the used of the word “her†in this text? Hence this question can be hardly supported with a direct collaboration from other sources, we can imply only to parallelism to other passages in the scripture that denotes the same meaning. So that we may arrive to a much nearer conclusion by the used of the word “her†in Luke, in vv.11-31 it is only fitting we follow his given clue; “because she came from the ends of the earth to listen to the Wisdom of Solomon.†In the Book of Wisdom; (Wisdom of Solomon 8:1-7) we may take this account, “She reaches mightily from one end of the earth to the other, and She orders all things well. I loved Her and sought Her from my youth, and I desired to take Her for my bride, and I became enamored of Her beauty. She glorifies Her noble birth by living with God, and the Lord of all loves Her. For She is an initiate in the knowledge of God, and an associate in His works. If riches are a desirable possession in life, what is richer than Wisdom who effects all things? And if understanding is effective, who more than She is fashioner of what exists? And if anyone loves righteousness, Her labors are virtues; for She teaches self-control and prudence, justice and courage; nothing in life is more profitable for humankind than these.†This passage clearly indicates to disprove the arguments the title “Queen of the South†refers to Queen of Sheba; Why? Because King Solomon from his youth loved her and sought her and been enamored of her beauty long before the queen had visited him. “God gave Solomon immense wisdom and understanding, and a heart as vast as the sand on the seashore†(1Kings5:9): This passage holds true of Solomon to understand the meaning of Genesis 1:26-27; “God said, Let us make mankind in our image and likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the cattle, over all the wild animals and every creature that crawls on the earth.†God created man in his image. In the image of God He created him. Male and female He created them.†In similar language God gave Solomon the immense wisdom and understanding that he could talk about plants from the cedar in Lebanon to the hyssop growing on the wall; and he could talks of animals, and birds and reptiles and fish. The same as what have been recorded in Genesis 1:26; “Let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild beast and all the reptiles that crawl upon the earth.†Even the whole narration of the creations of God in Genesis can be explained by Solomon as proven to many inspirational writings he himself composed. (We shall deal with them later)Solomon provides the key in unlocking the mysteries of the creation of God in Genesis 1:27; “God created man in his image. In the image of God He created him. Male and female He created them.†The scriptural testimony above affirms that created man-meaning the male- in His image and likeness; (Gen.1:27; Gen 5:1).However they also created a female, who is not the image of God since God was depicted as male (Father). In whose image and likeness then the woman created? Surely God had a companion during creation when He said, “Let us make mankind in our image and likeness…†The used of the word “us†indicates a plural form, they maybe two of them or three of them speaking or possibly four of them; but that is not the point I wish to discuss; The Son of God whom John wrote in his gospel (Jn.1:1-3) “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him was made nothing that has been made.†In whose image in likeness then the female created? Definitely it is not of Jesus (the Word) that prescribed by John. Why? Because the likeness of Jesus has a masculine form not a feminine form. Who then is this companion of God during creation that the form of female gender taken to her likeness? Would this be the one greater than Solomon who (she) came from the ends of the earth to listen to the Wisdom of Solomon? Solomon has a good understanding of who she is that is why he had been instrumental in unlocking the mysteries of this “created wisdom†in many of the books prescribed to him in the Old Testament. It was God himself gave him the immense wisdom to understand after Solomon pleased God with his prayer to give him a heart to understand how to discern between good and evil to help him govern God’s people.(Wis.7:7-12)”…I prayed, and understanding was given me; I called upon God, and the Spirit of Wisdom came to me. I preferred Her to scepters and thrones, and I accounted wealth as nothing in comparison with Her. Neither did I liken to Her any priceless gem, because all gold is but a little sand in Her sight, and silver will be accounted as clay before Her. I loved Her more than health and beauty, and I chose to have Her rather than light, because Her radiance never ceases. All good things came to me along with Her, and in Her hands uncounted wealth. I rejoiced in them all, because Wisdom leads them; but I did not know that She was their Mother.” This last text “She was their Mother†is somewhat related in Gen.3:15 and other passages in the scripture (and we shall again deal to them later.) In whose image in likeness then the female created? Clearly in the form of a Woman as Solomon suggested in (Wis.7:7-12).
Solomon also gave us the clue after God gave him the wisdom to be his guide. (Wis.7:13-14) “What I learned without self- interest, I pass on without reserve; I do not intend to hide her riches. For she is an inexhaustible treasure to men, and those who acquired it wins God’s friendship, commended as they are to him by the benefits of her teaching.†Solomon is the first person on earth who had acquired Her (created/ spirit of wisdom) and because of the “immense (created/spirit) wisdom God gave him,†has all the knowledge to introduced Her (created/spirit of wisdom) to us for he “do not intend to hide her riches.â€
In Proverbs 8:22-30; “God created me when his purpose first unfolded, before the oldest of his works. From everlasting I was firmly set, from the beginning, before earth came into being. The deep was not when I was born, there were no springs to gush with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I came to birth; before he made the earth, the countryside, or the first grains of the world’s dust. When fixed the heavens firm, I was there, when he drew the ring on the surface of the deep, when he thickened the clouds above, when he fixed fast the springs of the deep, when he assigned the seas its boundaries- and the waters will not invade the shore- when he laid down the foundations of the earth, I was by his side, a master craftsman, delighting him day after day, ever at play in his presence, at play everywhere in his world, delighting to be with the sons of men.†Without doubt this created (wisdom) was the companion of God during creation; Genesis 1:26-27; “God said, Let us make mankind in our image and likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the cattle, over all the wild animals and every creature that crawls on the earth.†God created man in his image. In the image of God He created him. Male and female He created them.â€
Footnote: ( source) Jerusalem Bible; thus the Greek translate the Hebrew verb (qanani). The translation ‘acquire me’ or ‘possessed me’ ( Aquila, Symmachus, Theodotion) was adopted by St. Jerome (Vulgate), with an eye to Arius who maintained the ‘ Word’ = Wisdom was a created being. Many Bible scholars equate Proverbs 8:22-30 to 1Cor.1:24 “who is called the Wisdom of God†and to John1:1-3 “In the beginning was the Word; the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.â€
By Faith I am a practicing Catholic Christian, but I do not exactly know the position of the Church regarding (Proverbs 8:22-30) but I know St. Jerome vehemently opposed Arius position, Word=Wisdom was a created being (referring to Christ). Arius position and my personal view differ, he was referring it to Christ but my opinion is somewhat different, it does not refer to Christ…but we both agreed that Proverbs 8:22 was a ‘created Wisdom.’ As suggested by the very verse itself, “God created meâ€; I am not discussing here the doctrine of the Trinity, there were forefathers of the Catholic churches differs in their point of departure but nevertheless arrive with almost identical conclusion to explain the doctrine of the Trinity.
There is a world of difference between the word ‘created’ and the word ‘beget.’ Any reliable dictionary will tell us that ‘create’ means:â€to form out of nothing; to originate, to cause to come into existence.’ On the other hand, ‘beget’ means: ‘to procreate as a father or sire’; ‘generate’, ‘produce out of one’s self.’ This may be the case John uses the word begets: Since Christ was begotten by God, it means that He was produced out of God’s own Divine Self. Christ is not a creature of God like all human beings Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is the same substance and nature. This is just how Augustine expressed it. He declared his intention in these words: ‘to undertake, with the help of the Lord and as far as we can ourselves, a justification (reddere rationem) of this affirmation: the Trinity is one true God and it is exactly true to say, believe and think that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are of one single and the same substance or essence’ (De Trin. I, 2, 4). (John 1:14) “And we saw His glory-glory as of the only- begotten of the Father.†Never is it mentioned that Jesus was ‘created’ by the Father. KJV translation is ‘possessed’: Definition; ‘have or obtain’ or ‘acquire’ much lesser in meaning to ‘create’: Solomon’s understanding of the “created wisdom†was so vast that he could express all her attributes and revealed to us the mysteries behind the creation of the universe. That she was the very first creation of God before earth came into being. Thus we can safely surmise that one of the companion of God during creation was the “created wisdomâ€, as She herself reveals: “When he fixed the heavens firm, I was there, when he drew the ring on the surface of the deep, when he thickened the clouds above, when he fixed fast the springs of the deep, when he assigned the seas its boundaries- and the waters will not invade the shore- when he laid down the foundations of the earth, I was by his side, a master craftsman, delighting him day after day, ever at play in his presence, at play everywhere in his world, delighting to be with the sons of men.†(Prov.8:27-30). The phrase ‘I was by his side, a master craftsman; resembles the phrase ‘she is fashioner of what exists’ Thus, once again, clearly indicates that she was one of the companion of God during creation (Wis.8:17) For She is an initiate in the knowledge of God, and an associate in His works. If riches are a desirable possession in life, what is richer than Wisdom who effects all things? And if understanding is effective, who more than She is fashioner of what exists?
But who really knows and comprehends this created Wisdom – as distinguished from Uncreated Wisdom, who is God Himself? God the ‘Uncreated Wisdom:’ Romans11:33; “How reach are the depths of God-how deep is His Wisdom and Knowledgeâ€: “But if God had a mind to speak, to open his lips and give you answer, were He to show you the secrets of ‘Wisdom’, which put all cleverness to shame.†(Job11:5-6) Thanks to God: He allowed, and “gave Solomon immense ‘wisdom’ and understanding, and a heart as vast as the sand of the seashore. (1Kings5:9); “No king has known any other beginning of existence†(Wis.7:5); “You yourself have chosen me to be king over your people, to be judge of your sons and daughters. You have bidden me to build a temple on your holy mountain, an altar in the city where you have pitched your tent, a copy of that sacred tabernacle which you prepared from the beginning. With you is “Wisdomâ€, ‘she’ who knows your works, ‘she’ who was present when you made the world; ‘she’ understands what is pleasing in your eyes and what agrees with your commandments.†(Wis.9:7-9): It is but proper that the Uncreated Wisdom Himself reveals to us His companion during creation. (Sirac1:4-10) “Before all other things Wisdom was created, shrewd understanding is everlasting. For whom has the root of wisdom ever been uncovered? Her resourceful ways, who knows them? One is only wise, terrible indeed, seated on his throne, the Lord. He himself has created her out on all his works to be with all mankind as his gift, and he conveyed her to those who love him.†The previous passage also resembles Baruch writings; “But the One who knows all knows her, he has grasped her with his own intellect…He has grasped the whole way of knowledge, and confided it to his servant Jacob, to Israel his well beloved; so causing her to appear on earth and move among men.†(Baruch 3:32&37-38) Scripture have it clear: The Lord God created Wisdom before all things else and He has poured Her forth upon all His works, upon all the living things, according to His bounty. Can we identify “created Wisdom†as a Woman? And if she is a woman what are Her attributes? “He who fears the Lord will act like this, and whoever grasps the Law will obtain wisdom. She will come to meet him like a mother, and receive him like a virgin bride.†(Sir.15:1-2); again, “Say to Wisdom, my sister†(Prov.7:4); again, “Wisdom is their leader though I had known that she is the mother of these.†(Wis.7:12): referring to the above passages from the Book Sirac, Proverbs, Baruch and Wisdom it is very clear that ‘created Wisdom’ was personified as female, a very strong indication that She was the companion of God during creation, in the image and likeness as male and female (Gen. 1:27);
The author of wisdom list twenty- one attributes of wisdom the most perfect of perfect numbers (3×7): Source; footnote, Jerusalem Bible.
“For within her is a spirit intelligent, holy, unique, manifold, active, incisive, unsullied, lucid, invulnerable, benevolent, sharp, irresistible, beneficent, loving to man, steadfast, dependable, unperturbed, almighty, all surveying, penetrating all intelligent, pure, and most subtle spirits; for Wisdom is quicker to move than any motion; she is so pure, she pervades and permeates all things. She is a breadth of the power of God, pure emanation of the glory of the Almighty; hence nothing impure can find a way into her. She is a reflection of the eternal light, untarnished mirror of God’s active power, image of his goodness. Although alone, she can do all; herself unchanging, she makes all things new. In each generation she passes into holy souls, she makes them friends of God and prophets; for God loves only the man who lives with Wisdom. She is indeed more splendid than the sun, she outlines all the constellations; compared with the light, she takes the first place, for light must yield to night, but over Wisdom evil can never triumph.†(Wis.7:22-30)
“Created Wisdom†represented compassion in its purest form, and the female companion of the side of God, she was visible and audible as a feminine entity in her own right with the identity of being Divine in nature. She is a reflection of the eternal light, whose most important function was to intercede with God on behalf of her children. In the beginning of the creation from Adam to Moses, Solomon elegantly recorded the history that may surprise many people to discover that ‘created Wisdom’ (‘Shekhina’ in Hebrew language) play an important role in various events in the history of the Israelites and surely up to the present time. Read the whole chapter of (Wis.10:1-21)
As a time went by, her ( created Wisdom) positioned strengthened through Jesus Ben Sira the author of Ecclesiasticus and several major and minor prophets alike. She has a distinct identity, her most important role, interceding in behalf of the chosen race of God and of course her children as well who follow the commandments of God and bear witness to his Son in the future generation.
Wisdom as a Spirit:
“No, Wisdom will never make its way into crafty soul nor stay in a body that is in debt to sin; the ‘holy spirit’ of instruction shuns deceit, it stands aloof from reckless purposes, is taken aback when inequity appears. “Wisdom is a Spiritâ€, a friend to man, though she will not pardon the words of a blasphemer…†(Wis.1:4-6): The above passage indicates that the (created) Wisdom is a Spirit and a friend to man that she stay not in a body in debt to sin because of her pureness (holy) in form. But what is striking here is that ‘she will not pardon the words of a blasphemer.’ Almost all Christian denomination seek forgiveness of their sins either from God the father or to Jesus Christ and these was proven correct by the many passages we can get in the scripture. In the gospel of (Mathew 9:3-6) “Courage, my child, your sins are forgiven…but to prove to you that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.†In the gospel of (Luke7:49-50) “Then He said to her, ‘your sins are forgiven’. Those who were with him at the table began to say to themselves, who is this man, that he even forgives sins? But he said to the woman, your faith has saved you; go in peaceâ€. These were two instances that Jesus forgave sins and this proved the substance of his inner life is of Divine in Nature. Not created but begotten to justify Proverbs 8:22; (John 1:14) “And we saw His glory-glory as of the only- begotten of the Father.†Scripture tells us, with its striking similarity on Wisdom 1:4-6, (Mt.12:32; Mk.3:28-30; and Lk.12:10) “Everyone who says a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven (either in this world or in the next).†To borrow the word of St. Augustine; The Son, in the language of Scripture, the image of the Invisible God, His Word, His “uncreated wisdomâ€
Note: It is already late in the evening and i do not wish to bore readers by long discussion. Tomorrow i will end my defense to my Lady.
Jesus king of Mercy i trust in you.”oh Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee! ( to be continued )
well, well, well, Dear Vil,your language was so nice.if you can spit so much openly, how much more you might have in your heart? And if your Church or Bible teaches you like this, certainly someone will voice against you. that is what happened against the Roman Churches. of course Luther,s name was never mentioned in any Bible.so what? no body worship him or ask him to intercede.
What does it shows about Mary in RCC Bible?to worship her? JESUS pointing us to go to Mary? or The Apostles advises to go for Mary,s intercede? did they worshiped Mary? if not, are they lairs? .- She was a Virgin and stayed virgin for the rest of her life,- where? I could not find anywhere from Mathew to Revelation in RCC Bible.-sinful human being like any other.- thanks. you agreed to that as Mary did.until JESUS Resurrection, there were no Christians. -They all started popping out of no where for the last two three hundred years like cockroaches.- Yes Yes ,when the people, who called them selves Catholic Christians started sinning against GOD, THE LORD would certainly choose some people to warn them.The whole Bible have proofs for this.
The word of Christian means, follower of CHRIST only.not a mixture of all culture. come and see in velankanni in south India.many devotees are offering their hair to so called mother Mary. like venkataswamy a hindu god who accepts hair as offering.shaaaaaame.
I have more and more to say how corrupted are the RCC preaching. But I know these are will never make them to TURN BACK TO THE TRUE GOD.Only if they start reading the Bible and follow it, GOD,s Grace may come upon them, and they will be SAVED. Let us Pray for that.
Mr Celestino Culaba … all the confusing stuff you post has nothing to do whatsoever with the original title of this article – “Should we pray to Virgin Mary.
I know you are a filipino (pinoy) based in Tacloban City, Philipines.
I would be best if you advised readers reading this article post and justify the same who is to be blamed for the “self-flagellation” mess in your own country – the philipines as mentioned in the article at .
So instead of maligning the name of the true mother of Jesus by writing irrelevant scriptures to support your wild imaginations. It would be advisable to you to desist from such falsehoods that lead everyone toward the wrong path,
Hope you accept my request with humility and oblige.
( continuation )
This representation was guided by his desire to share some unnoticed passages of the scripture that may unlock the mysteries of creation and reveals to us gradually its importance and purpose. I have opened my point of origin heavily to the Book of Wisdom of Solomon and to the passage also attached to him in the gospel of Mathew and Luke where he was been mentioned, then concentrated mainly on Proverbs 8:22; Gen.1:26-27; John1:1-14; Sirac1:4-10 &24:10; Baruch3:20-22; and other verses with equal importance. The purpose of this endeavor is to invite theologians and Bible scholars and clergies alike to look earnestly what these passages meant to you. Do not confuse my argument advocating new gospel or promoting doctrinal matters. The intention of this invitation is to expound passages in the scripture with identical representation to Christ, the center piece of our Christian faith. Since the formulation of councils attended by eastern, western clergies and orthodoxy there were number of issues that have been resolved like for example the Divinity of Christ, the doctrine of the Trinity and the numerous titles awarded to the blessed Virgin Mary but none to the wisdom of Solomon who left us resounding clues that may point to the interesting mystery of God’s companion in the creation of the universe. What had been initially introduced on this article conclusion is withheld till someone may take notice and share his or her materials (supporting verses base in scripture) about the concept that had been raised on Proverbs 8:22. I am here not to contradict the doctrine of the Nicaea council about the Trinity in fact I have acknowledged and accepted their sound arguments. Though we can notice they differ on their point of departure nevertheless they arrive of the same conclusion.
The members of the Trinity are said to be co-equal and co-eternal, one in essence, nature, power, action, and will. As stated in the Athanasian Creed, the Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, and the Holy Spirit is uncreated, and all three are eternal with no beginning. On the other hand, the Cappadocian Fathers argued that the Holy Spirit was an equal person to the Father and Son. So what we have, then, are the same truths, seen on different points of view.
This representation believes that revelation written by St. John does not stop there, there are still more revelations to come, God described Himself to Amos and to Israel:
‘..it is He who forges the mountains, creates the wind, who reveals His mind to humankind..’God used ‘reveals’, not ‘revealed’, present tense, which means that He speaks His mind to us from the beginning of time up to our present time. And this has been proven true by historical events; the many recorded apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary and reported visions of the passion of Christ to his chosen individual to be victim soul and shared his suffering for the conversion of sinners and of the whole world. We have been given the duplicate key to unlock the meaning of all what is written, maybe the most important treasure in heaven can be found in the past history, hidden to us for a long time but those who trace her find knowledge and truth. It is like saying to have a better understanding of the future revelations we must go back of what was written the past prophesies God provided us. To Wisdom 6:12-13; “Wisdom is bright, and does not grow dim. By those who love her she is readily seen, and found by those who look for her. Quick to anticipate those who desire her, she makes herself known them.â€
The Ark of the Old Covenant
The Ark of the Covenant is somewhat related to all the above passages we have discussed through its symbolical pattern, and king Solomon has also a hand in planting the clues for our final understanding. The parallelism used by St. Luke and St. John provided us the path to trace the hidden treasure king Solomon have been discussing long time ago. To borrow the word of St. Augustine, “the Old Testament is the New concealed, but the New Testament is the Old revealed”. This means that the Old Testament is full of stories of people and historical events. Typology is a type, a person, thing, or event in the Old Testament that foreshadows something in the New Testament. St. Luke, St. John and St. Paul, being Jews knew the Jewish principle of how they would construct their gospel in the New Testament consistent with the Old Testament when possible quotation should arise. Here are a few more examples of biblical typology:
• Peter uses Noah’s ark as a type of Christian baptism (1 Pt. 3:18-22).
• Paul explains that circumcision foreshadowed Christian baptism (Col. 2:11-12).
• Jesus uses the bronze serpent as a type of his Crucifixion (Jn. 3:14; cf. Nm. 21:8-9).
• The Passover lamb prefigures the sacrifice of Christ (1 Cor. 5:7).
I have been fortunate to come across of one of Steve Ray’s article about the Ark of the Covenant that boost my confidence and search the true meaning of it. And what surprise me of the author is that he is a catholic convert, it turn out that he is more knowledgeable than many Catholic Christian. Verbatim I shall share his article to establish my point because I found it helpful to what I am discussing on my own article.
God loved his people and wanted to be close to them. He chose to do so in a very special way. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says, “The prayer of the people of God flourished in the shadow of the dwelling place of God’s presence on earth, the Ark of the Covenant and the Temple, under the guidance of their shepherds, especially King David, and of the prophets” (CCC 2594). God instructed Moses to build a tabernacle surrounded by heavy curtains (cf. Ex. 25-27). Within the tabernacle he was to place an Ark made of acacia wood covered with gold inside and out. Within the Ark of the Covenant was placed a golden jar holding the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant (cf. Heb 9:4).
When the ark was completed, the glory cloud of the Lord (the Shekinah Glory) covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle (Ex. 40:34-35; Nm. 9:18- 22). The verb for “to cover” or “to overshadow” and the metaphor of a cloud are used in the Bible to represent the presence and glory of God. The Catechism explains:
In the theophanies of the Old Testament, the cloud, now obscure, now luminous, reveals the living and saving God, while veiling the transcendence of his glory—with Moses on Mount Sinai, at the tent of meeting, and during the wandering in the desert, and with Solomon at the dedication of the temple. In the Holy Spirit, Christ fulfills these figures. The Spirit comes upon the Virgin Mary and “overshadows” her, so that she might conceive and give birth to Jesus. On the mountain of Transfiguration, the Spirit in the “cloud came and overshadowed” Jesus, Moses and Elijah, Peter, James and John, and “a voice came out of the cloud, saying, ‘This is my Son, my Chosen; listen to him!’” Finally, the cloud took Jesus out of the sight of the disciples on the day of his Ascension and will reveal him as Son of Man in glory on the day of his final coming. The glory of the Lord “overshadowed” the Ark and filled the tabernacle. (CCC 697)
It’s easy to miss the parallel between the Holy Spirit overshadowing the Ark and the Holy Spirit overshadowing Mary, between the Ark of the Old Covenant as the dwelling place of God and Mary as the new dwelling place of God.
God was very specific about every exact detail of the Ark (Ex 25-30). It was a place where God himself would dwell (Ex 25:8). God wanted his words—inscribed on stone—housed in a perfect container covered with pure gold within and without. How much more would He want his Word—Jesus—to have a perfect dwelling place! If the only begotten Son were to take up residence in the womb of a human girl, would he not make her flawless?
The Virgin Mary is the living shrine of the Word of God, the Ark of the New and Eternal Covenant. In fact, St. Luke’s account of the Annunciation of the angel to Mary nicely incorporates the images of the tent of meeting with God in Sinai and of the temple of Zion. Just as the cloud covered the people of God marching in the desert (cf. Nm 10:34; Dt. 33:12; Ps 91:4) and just as the same cloud, as a sign of the divine mystery present in the midst of Israel, hovered over the Ark of the Covenant (cf. Ex 40:35), so now the shadow of the Most High envelops and penetrates the tabernacle of the New Covenant that is the womb of Mary (cf. Lk.1:35).
King David and Elizabeth
Luke weaves additional parallels into the story of Mary—types that could be overlooked if one are unfamiliar with the Old Testament. After Moses died, Joshua led the Israelites across the Jordan River into the Promised Land. Joshua established the Ark of the Covenant in Shiloh, where it stayed for more than 200 years. One day the Israelites were losing a battle with the Philistines, so they snatched the ark and rushed it to the front lines. The Philistines captured the Ark, but it caused them great problems, so they sent it back to Israel (1 Sm. 5:1-6:12).
David went out to retrieve the Ark (1 Sm. 6:1-2). After a man named Uzzah was struck dead when he touched the Ark, David was afraid and said, “How can the Ark of the Lord come to me?” He left the Ark in the hill country of Judea for three months. We are also told that David danced and leapt in front of the Ark and everyone shouted for joy. The house of Obed-edom, which had housed the Ark, was blessed, and then David took the Ark to Jerusalem (2 Sm. 6:9-14).
Compare David and the Ark to Luke’s account of the Visitation:
In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a city of Judah, and she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.” (Lk. 1:39-45)
It seems clear that Luke has used typology to reveal something about the place of Mary in salvation history. In the Ark of the Old Covenant, God came to his people with a spiritual presence, but in Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, God comes to dwell with his people not only spiritually but physically, in the womb of a specially prepared Jewish girl.
The Old Testament tells us that one item was placed inside the Ark of the Old Covenant while in the Sinai wilderness: God told Moses to put the stone tablets with the Ten Commandments inside the Ark (Dt. 10:3-5). Hebrews 9:4 informs us that two additional items were placed in the Ark: “a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod that budded.” Notice the amazing parallels: In the Ark was the law of God inscribed in stone; in Mary’s womb was the Word of God in flesh. In the Ark was the urn of manna, the bread from heaven that kept God’s people alive in the wilderness; in Mary’s womb is the Bread of Life come down from heaven that brings eternal life. In the Ark was the rod of Aaron, the proof of true priesthood; in Mary’s womb is the true priest. In the third century, St. Gregory the Wonder Worker said that Mary is truly an Ark—”gold within and gold without, and she has received in her womb all the treasures of the sanctuary.”
While the apostle John was exiled on the island of Patmos, he wrote something that would have shocked any first-century Jew. The Ark of the Old Covenant had been lost for centuries—no one had seen it for about 600 years. But in Revelation 11:19, John makes a surprising announcement: “Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the Ark of his Covenant was seen within his temple.”
At this point chapter 11 ends and chapter 12 begins. But the Bible was not written with chapter divisions—they were added in the 12th century. When John penned these words, there was no division between chapters 11 and 12; it was a continuing narrative.
What did John say immediately after seeing the Ark of the Covenant in heaven? “And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child” (Rv. 12:1-2). The woman is Mary, the Ark of the Covenant, revealed by God to John. She was seen bearing the child who would rule the world with a rod of iron (Rv. 12:5). Mary was seen as the Ark and as a Queen.
But does this passage really refer to Mary? Some say the woman represents Israel or the Church, and certainly she does. John’s use of rich symbolism is well known, but it is obvious from the Bible itself that the woman is Mary. The Bible begins with a real man (Adam), a real woman (Eve), and a real serpent (the devil)—and it also ends with a real man (Jesus, the Last Adam [1 Cor. 15:45]), a real woman (Mary, the New Eve [Rv. 11:19-12:2), and a real serpent (the devil of old). All of this was foretold in Genesis 3:15.
John Henry Cardinal Newman wrote about this passage in Revelation:
What I would maintain is this, that the Holy Apostle would not have spoken of the Church under this particular image unless there had existed a Blessed Virgin Mary, who was exalted on high and the object of veneration to all the faithful. No one doubts that the “man-child” spoken of is an allusion to our Lord; why then is not “the Woman” an allusion to his mother? (On the Blessed Virgin Mary)
Later in the same chapter we read that the devil went out to persecute the woman’s other offspring—Christians—which certainly seems to indicate that Mary is somehow the mother of the Church (Rv. 12:17).
Even if someone rejects Catholic teaching regarding Mary, he cannot deny that Catholics have scriptural foundations for it. And it is a teaching that has been taught by Christians from ancient times. Here are a few representative quotations from the early Church—some written well before the New Testament books were officially compiled into the final New Testament canon:
Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296–373) was the main defender of the deity of Christ against the second-century heretics. He wrote: “O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O [Ark of the] Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides” (Homily of the Papyrus of Turin).
Gregory the Wonder Worker (c. 213–c. 270) wrote: “Let us chant the melody that has been taught us by the inspired harp of David, and say, ‘Arise, O Lord, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy sanctuary.’ For the Holy Virgin is in truth an ark, wrought with gold both within and without, that has received the whole treasury of the sanctuary” (Homily on the Annunciation to the Holy Virgin Mary).
The Catechism of the Catholic Church echoes the words from the earliest centuries: “Mary, in whom the Lord himself has just made his dwelling, is the daughter of Zion in person, the Ark of the Covenant, the place where the glory of the Lord dwells. She is ‘the dwelling of God . . . with men’” (CCC 2676).
The early Christians taught the same thing that the Catholic Church teaches today about Mary, including her being the Ark of the New Covenant.
SIDEBARS
Mary, the Ark As Revealed in Mary’s Visit to Elizabeth
Golden Box: Ark of the Old Covenant Mary: Ark of the New Covenant
The ark traveled to the house of Obed-edom in the hill country of Judea (2 Sam. 6:1-11). Mary traveled to the house of Elizabeth and Zechariah in the hill country of Judea (Luke 1:39).
Dressed as a priest, David danced and leapt in front of the ark (2 Sam. 6:14). John the Baptist – of priestly lineage – leapt in his mother’s womb at the approach of Mary (Luke 1:41).
David asks, “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” (2 Sam. 6:9). Elizabeth asks, “Why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” (Luke 1:43).
David shouts in the presence of the ark (2 Sam. 6:15). Elizabeth “exclaimed with a loud cry” in the presence of the Mary (Luke 1:42).
The ark remained in the house of Obed-edom for three months (2 Sam. 6:11). Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth for three months (Luke 1:56).
The house of Obed-edom was blessed by the presence of the ark (2 Sam. 6:11). The word blessed is used three times; surely the house was blessed by God (Luke 1:39-45).
The ark returns to its home and ends up in Jerusalem, where God’s presence and glory is revealed in the temple (2 Sam. 6:12; 1 Kgs. 8:9-11). Mary returns home and eventually ends up in Jerusalem, where she presents God incarnate in the temple (Luke 1:56; 2:21-22).
Mary as the Ark Revealed by Items inside the Ark
Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant Inside Mary, Ark of the New Covenant
The stone tablets of the law – the word of God inscribed on stone The body of Jesus Christ – the word of God in the flesh
The urn filled with manna from the wilderness – the miraculous bread come down from heaven The womb containing Jesus, the bread of life come down from heaven (John 6:41)
The rod of Aaron that budded to prove and defend the true high priest The actual and eternal High Priest
I will leave you some clues and pose some questions and see if these may ring the bells into thy head.
First clue; first account of the creation: Genesis 1:26-27; (26) “God said, Let us make man in our image, in the likeness of ourselves…†(27) “God created man in the image of himself, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them.â€
First questions: Why has God said, male and female he created them while it is clear in the above passage it was only the first man Adam he had been fashioned alone? Is he establishing a pattern of what was beyond before the creation of the universe like a husband and wife too?
Second clue; second account of the creation: Genesis 2:18-23; “God said, It is not good that a man should be alone. I will make him a helpmate…So Yahweh God made the man fall into deep sleep. And while he slept, he took one of his ribs and enclosed it in flesh. Yahweh God built the rib he had taken from the man into a woman, and brought her to the man.â€
Second question: Is he implying that during creation His companion is in a form of a female aspect with a Divine nature and called her woman in subsequent verses?
Third clue; still in the second account of the creation: Genesis 2:24; “This is why a man leaves his father and mother and joins himself to his wife, and they become one body.â€
Third questions: Would this be the pattern or the answer God wanted to establish when He said let us make man in our image and the subsequent declaration male and female He created them? Or may this also mean the state of their being is one by nature that they become one body?
In Christian faith, revelation or vision is the name applied in any form of mystical activities. While in Judaism, kabbalah is the name applied to the whole range of Jewish mystical activity. The Shekinah is held by many to represent the feminine attributes of the presence of God (Shekinah being a feminine word of Hebrew), based especially on readings of the Talmud and the Kabbalah.
While the Bible does not mention the name Shekhina, she is nevertheless bound to extremely old traditions, “Shekinah” in Hebrew is a feminine noun, It is interesting to note that King Solomom, Jesus Ben Sirac, Baruch and Tobit refers to the Shekinah using feminine pronoun and its context the pronouns are feminine. Both pronouns are feminine in Hebrew. Without doubt this is why the inter-testament Rabbis coined the word Shekinah to describe the events when the Israilites were guided and protected from their enemies. In Hebrew language the word “Shekinah†is translated to mean ‘indwelling’, it is interesting to note that the ‘Ark of the Covenant’, a heavenly God allows himself to dwell inside Shekinah to live within his people. Read whole chapter of Wisdom 10:1-21;
• The Ark in Catholic tradition
Catholic tradition, led by the Fathers of the Church, has considered the Ark of the Covenant as one of the purest and richest symbols of the realities of the New Law. It signifies, in the first place, the Incarnate Word of God. “Christ himself”, says St. Thomas Aquinas, “was signified by the Ark. For in the same manner as the Ark was made of setim wood, so also was the body of Christ composed of the most pure human substance. The Ark was entirely overlaid with gold, because Christ was filled with wisdom and charity, which gold symbolizes. In the Ark there was a golden vase: this represents Jesus’ most holy soul containing the fullness of sanctity and the godhead, figured by the manna. There was also Aaron’s rod, to indicate the sacerdotal of Jesus Christ priest forever. Finally the stone tables of the Law were likewise contained in the Ark, to mean that Jesus Christ is the author of the Law”. To these point touched by the Angel of the Schools, it might be added that the Ascension of Christ to heaven after His victory over death and sin is figured by the coming up of the Ark to Sion. St. Bonaventure has also seen in the Ark a mystical representation of the Holy Eucharist. In like manner the Ark might be very well regarded as a mystical figure of the Blessed Virgin, called by the Church the “Ark of the Covenant”.
•
God was very specific about every exact detail of the Ark (Ex 25-30). It was a place where God himself would dwell (Ex 25:8) stayed in a perfect space covered with pure gold within and without. How much more God want his Incarnate Word—Jesus—to have a perfect dwelling place! If the only begotten Son were to take up habitat in the womb of a virgin, would He not make her immaculately clean, free from the stain of sin?
•
I will give you again some clues if you can unlock the mysteries of the two Cherubim. This may interest truth seekers that until now may seem hidden to their attention.
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Clue; The Cherubim was placed above the Ark of the Covenant that seems guarding the Ark.
Question: Where can you find the Cherubs in the scriptures posted by God guarding a portal?
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Clue; David went out to retrieve the Ark (1 Sm. 6:1-2). After a man named Uzzah (with all his good intention) was struck dead when he touched the Ark, David was afraid and said, “How can the Ark of the Lord come to me?” He left the Ark in the hill country of Judea for three months.
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Question: Where can you find in the scriptures, when God said, “…nor touch it, under pain of death.â€
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If you can unlock these given clues you may be leading to God’s friendship. “By those who love her she is readily seen, and found by those who look for her. Quick to anticipate those who desire her, she makes herself known to them.†(Wisdom 6:12-13):
•
When God purposely subjected himself to seat on the mercy throne (or dwell in the Ark) He was establishing the pattern of what was to be expected when the Incarnate Word find its perfect dwelling in a Virgin. Solomon exclaims (1 Kings 8:27) “…. heaven and heavens of heavens cannot contain You…. †hinting to the well known tradition of the Seven Heavens, an old tradition shared by many other cultures. Eventually, it was introduced in the First Temple by King Solomon who said, at the time of the inauguration “God will dwell forever in His House†(1 Kings 8:13). Now, if God will dwell forever in His mercy seat, meaning the Ark of Covenant, would it not be proper that the place He will be dwelling would be spotless or immaculate, meaning as incorruptible as what the acacia tree signifies. Would it be like saying, before the world was created, the Incarnate Word already existed within Her not only in the subconscious mind of the Creator but in reality during the creation. That had been materialize later and manifested through the Ark of Covenant. This is the fulfillment of the prophecy made by Isaiah (Is.7:14-15); “The Lord himself, therefore, will give you a sign. It is this: the virgin is with child and will soon give birth to a son whom she will call Immanuel;†meaning “God is with usâ€, it is not only the Word became human being through Her, but it is Her flesh and blood. Have you not seen His Glory, the Glory which He received as my only Son?
In my closing I will leave some thoughts to ponder, if you wish to be partaker of the Fruit that gives life mentioned in Rev.22:14; search for that mystical Divine Tree that gives eternal Life…the Fruit that comes from the bosom of that Tree. “Just as I have told you, that he who knows Me knows My Father, so I now tell you that he knows My Mother knows Me.†– The Mystical City of God. Vol.III, p. 765.
Jesus King of Mercy I trust in you. Oh’ Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Shyla and celestino culaba: the following scriptures reveal and explain about the saints who are along with Jesus. please make a note of this
Dear Nathaniael and babu,
As you have questioned about how can dead people pray for us or still acknoweldge us, here is an answear for it.
The great servents of God after their death will be saints.
And if you look into sciptures
Mathew 17: 1-4
After six days Jesus took with Him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.â€
And also
Luke 16:20-31
New International Version (NIV)
20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’â€
In the above passage it clearly states, that abraham was judging richman.
An important point missed in respect to this article post – “Why Pray To Virgin Mary?”
The issue that Mary and the Saints are not omniscient is mysteriously left out. Even glorified in Heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations and couldn’t possibly hear the prayers of millions of people.
Ok… We can agree that the Bible is the Word of God. Yes? If the Word of God is our rule-book (2 Tim 3:15-17), then where are we instructed to ask anyone in Heaven to pray for us? If this is important, then were the apostles mistaken by not mentioning the importance of asking someone in heaven to pray for us sinners?
I respectfully submit that it is plainly clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to
pray for you. One has a strong Biblical basis, the other has no Biblical basis whatsoever.
@Moses Daniel:
(1) In regards to Matthew 17: 1-4:
Moses and Elijah are OLD TESTAMENT saints who are already in heaven in conversation with Jesus, but not with the Apostles Peter/James. etc., who are still mortal beings on the earth. They are in conversation with Jesus simply because Jesus is God Himself and has the power to converse with saints in heaven. Moses and Elijah came to comfort Jesus and give him support on His upcoming crucifixion. Even Peter was amazed at the scene and offered to build three tabernacles. So in these verse there is no catholic justification that we can approach dead persons, saints or mary as intercessors.
(2) In Luke Luke 16:20-31 we can see clearly that the beggar and the rich man are in Abraham’s side and Hades (Hell) receptively. The rich man in hell makes a request to Abraham in Heaven makes a request to send someone from the dead to earth to warn his family. This shows that dead persons (like the rich man) cannot communicate with some one on the earth because they are not conscious of what is happening on the earth. When we die we are either passed from death unto life in heaven or sent to hell. Dead persons cannot hear prayers as they are not omniscient. Here “omniscient is the keyword.
I fail to see why catholics are stubborn are not obedient to the teachings of Jesus. Jesus clearly commanded to pray to the Father in His name. Isn’t that enough of a command to obey? Why are catholics so disobedient and make a mockery of what Jesus taught?
@moses daniel:
The issue of Catholics praying to saints is one that is full of confusion. It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Catholics do not pray TO saints or Mary, but rather that Catholics can ask saints or Mary to pray FOR them. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that asking saints for their prayers is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. However, the practice of many Catholics diverges from official Roman Catholic teaching. Many Catholics do in fact pray directly to saints and/or Mary, asking them for help – instead of asking the saints and/or Mary to intercede with God for help. Whatever the case, whether a saint or Mary is being prayed to, or asked to pray, neither practice has any biblical basis.
The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God. The Bible nowhere encourages, or even mentions, believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers. Why, then, do many Catholics pray to Mary and/or the saints, or request their prayers? Catholics view Mary and the saints as “intercessors” before God. They believe that a saint, who is glorified in Heaven, has more “direct access” to God than we do. Therefore, if a saint delivers a prayer to God, it is more effective than us praying to God directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical. Hebrews 4:16 tells us that we, believers here on earth, can “approach the throne of grace with confidence.”
First Timothy 2:5 declares, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” There is no one else that can mediate with God for us. If Jesus is the ONLY mediator, that indicates Mary and the saints cannot be mediators. They cannot mediate our prayer requests to God. Further, the Bible tells us that Jesus Christ Himself is interceding for us before the Father: “Therefore He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them” (Hebrews 7:25). With Jesus Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary or the saints to intercede for us? Whom would God listen to more closely than His Son? Romans 8:26-27 describes the Holy Spirit interceding for us. With the 2nd and 3rd members of the Trinity already interceding for us before the Father in heaven, what possible need could there be to have Mary or the saints interceding for us?
Catholics argue that praying to Mary and the saints is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. Let us examine that claim. (1) The Apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19. Many Scriptures describe believers praying for one another (2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16; Philippians 1:19; 2 Timothy 1:3). The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for him. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. (2) The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations. How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people? Whenever the Bible mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is in the context of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, and divination—activities the Bible strongly condemns (Leviticus 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:10-13). In the one instance when a “saint” is spoken to, Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:7-19, Samuel is not exactly happy to be disturbed. It is clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us. One has a strong biblical basis; the other has no biblical basis whatsoever.
God does not answer prayers based on who is praying. God answers prayers based on whether they are asked according to His will (1 John 5:14-15). There is absolutely no basis or need to pray to anyone other than God alone. There is no basis for asking those who are in heaven to pray for us. Only God can hear our prayers. Only God can answer our prayers. No one in heaven has any greater access to God’s throne than we do through prayer (Hebrews 4:16).
Dear Celestino, I agree you struggle a lot to prove that why we should pray to Mary.you have tried your level best to show the comparison of The Ark of the Covenant and Mary. all Right, if a Celestino Culaba or any other man, could analyze so deep and says how to lead a Christian life, why JESUS forgot to give us the same commands? why the disciples of JESUS missed it? and why the Apostles of JESUS did not write it to prove? you people think that you are all more clever or genius than them? If HOLY SPIRIT could give us all what we need in Bible, is The HOLY SPIRIT incapable to give us some more sentences? NO My Dear friends, it is very simple.what was given is sufficient.do not try to add up.do not try to include your forefather,s old god and goddess into the Church.
celestino and others, you all are gone beyond limit to share the Glory of GOD, with some unholy spirits.we all love MARY. she did her part very wonder fully.we keep her part as witness and respect her.But the commander is GOD only. we must follow only THE LORD,S Words.
you have no Faith in the words and promises of GOD. or else you would not have made your own stories and insist others to follow it.it is the time to TURN BACK TO GOD Who is THE ALPHA AND OMEGA.
@Moses
Read this verse again Luke 16 : 29
And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets. Let them hear them.
For all time, this is God’s last word to the people. The meaning of “they have Moses and the prophets†is that for deliverance they should have depended on the Holy Bible.
@Celestina… please dont waste your time in writing fairy tales here. Read the word of God. Dont follow religions, follow Jesus.
God bless you all
Dear All,
Please see this picture here at http://tinyurl.com/ckl67cx. This will serve as a reminder to all those who practice idolatry.
@babu,
How easily you twisted what is straight forward (verse)? “They have Moses and the prophets. Let them hear them.†The meaning of “they have Moses and the prophets†is that for deliverance they should have depended on the Holy Bible. Tsk,tsk,tsk! Very, very poor understanding the word of God! I shall remind you of what a certain Tonsil said to you, I’ve written simple english only, even that you cannot or don’t want to understand. So how could you understand the whole contents of the bible? Read carefully the statement of Moses that you misquoted, maybe you may change abruptly the blunder you have committed. Nothing on that verse indicates the future of the Bible. I shall help you understand my friend that the Bible you are referring to has not been compiled yet during that time. So how come you jump into conclusion it refers to Bible? One more thing, look how it was phrased both in plural form, do you see now the difference?
Now you said what I have written is fairy tales, you are again contradict yourself. Your statement to Moses above all is ‘sola scriptura’ Read intently my last two postings, all verses had been indicated and demonstrated base on the scriptures ‘Sola Scriptura’.
No wonder you cannot even show sound rebuttal to any topics I have offered for further (exposition) discussion.
Jesus King of Mercy I trust in you. “Oh Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
@Nathaniel Fernandez,
It is good you opened for the second time the issue of self- flagellation. I almost forgot to address your murmurings about this topic.
The (CBCP) Catholic Bishop Conference of the Philippines always rejected this practice of some of our brothers during Lenten season for reason the same of what you have understand. I myself also do not subscribe to that practice because it is different to what I learned from the pastoral letter issued by our Church. I repeat for clarity the CBCP does not adhere to that malpractice of some of our unfortunate brothers who for their own reason we do not know.
It is good to know you are milder now unlike before, I like very much your behavior now. That is the proper way to address your opposition so that you may know him better. You have the intelligence and knowledge to be a good follower of Christ only your Faith was misplaced by contradicting His good intention for His Mother.
You people think that if we go near blessed Mary and ask for Her intercession Jesus will be threatened or got envied by our actions? No my dear brother Nathaniel, that would not be the case.
As I have already said you have the knowledge, only need some fine tuning to understand correctly where and when it should be applied. What is lacking is the Wisdom to understand the true meaning… I have already laid down to you what are to be expected of Her Motherly embrace. It is already in your mind now, do not waste it!
Lastly, be careful of what you are saying, nowhere in my articles I maligned the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ. Have you still do not get my message? I am defending Her to the utmost of my ability.
Jesus King of Mercy I trust in you. “Oh Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Sister Shyla,
Wow, you are like a computer (questions) hardware. It is good: Inquisitive mind surely finds truth especially if they are willing to submit when they find it.
“Why JESUS forgot to give us the same commands? Why the disciples of JESUS missed it? And why the Apostles of JESUS did not write it to prove? You people think that you are all more clever or genius than them?â€
Reply: Jesus had declared it, gave us the sign written by Luke and Mathew in their respective gospel in Mathew 12:42 and Luke 11:31: Also in Mathew 11:19 and Luke 7:35; and also by John Rev.11:19 & the whole chapter of Rev.12:1-17; the Book of Solomon, Sirac, Proverbs and Baruch. If by any chance you fail to comprehend the given verses there is only one problem, you are ignoring it.
Shyla dearest, I stayed within the bounds prescribe by the Scripture and do not insist or force myself to follow my opinion. This is my statement you may overlook or failed to note. “The purpose of this endeavor is to invite theologians and Bible scholars and clergies alike to look earnestly what these passages meant to you.†See, I am open to any exposition or discussion to anyone who wish to deny or reject my opinion.
I have no quarrels how you put God in your Faith or how you/we acknowledge Jesus to be our Saviour. You people perceived that if we ask Mary’s intercession we are violating something that God and Jesus to be indignant of our actions. No, no my dearest friend, Catholics are not forgetful that there is “only one God the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth and Jesus Christ His only Son our Lord and He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary…†We pray that in our “Apostles Creed†everyday in our life.
Jesus King of Mercy I trust in you. “Oh Mary conceived without sin pray for us who have recourse to thee!
dear celestino,
tell me this… did lazar appear to rich man’s house?
Did Abraham help the rich man’s relatives?
What Ahraham said:believe what prophets said.
Which prophet said, we have to follow dead people? Starting from Noah – John, all said follow Jesus- NOT dead rotten bodies.
God bless you
Dear Nathaniel,
you have not justified the question of mine,
Recheck the verse carefully, dont just read like news paper, understand the verse, this requires holyspirit guidance ok
Mathew 17: 1-4
After six days Jesus took with Him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.â€
In th above verse, Moses and Elijah were already dead.
konw the fact, dont hide the versus
@Celestino – in reply below to your post at #1223
The (CBCP) Catholic Bishop Conference of the Philippines always rejected this practice of some of our brothers during Lenten season for reason the same of what you have understand. I myself also do not subscribe to that practice because it is different to what I learned from the pastoral letter issued by our Church. I repeat for clarity the CBCP does not adhere to that malpractice of some of our unfortunate brothers who for their own reason we do not know.
I must say I am amazed you and the Catholic Church (CBCP) in philipnes are pleading “ignorance” to the old aged taboo that is still prevalent in your country? After all the devil will always try to cover up his nefarious activity. You haven’t actually read the article found at the link I’ve provided or are you are just simply turning a blind eye to the whole issue?
It is the Catholic Church to be blamed for the whole self-flagellation taboo mess.
In the Philippines’ long history in relation with the Catholic Church, its said that Spanish friars who lorded over the Filipinos for 333 years emphasized that the road to hell is easier compared to the stairs to heaven. Teachings back then emphasized that salvation can come to anyone, but with a price.
Please read the article. You are simply defending a false cult religion that is ensnared you in perpetual bondage.
Where Did the Doctrine of a Sinless Mother/Redeemer Really Come From?
Since it is easily proven that the doctrines of Mary as Redemptrix (sic., female of Redeemer) and of Mary as ‘Queen of Heaven’ did not come from the Bible, the question arises, “Where did they come from?!” Indeed, where did such concepts first occur in recorded history? The answer is found in several historical documents, as described below.
BABYLON MYSTERY RELIGION. History shows that the concept of a ‘mother of god,’ the ‘Queen of Heaven,’ who ‘dispenses all grace’ first arose on the plain of Shinar (in modern-day Iraq), in the city of Babylon, built by Nimrod (Genesis 10:8-10) in direct disobedience to God’s commands. There, in ancient Babylon, the mother-goddess Semaramis, pictured with an infant son at her breast, was called the “Queen of Heaven” and the “Mother of God.” She also had the appellation “the hope of the whole world.” Does any of this sound familiar? (Source: Dionusiaca, Lib. Xii, in Bryant, Vol iii, page 226).
Semaramis was said to have derived her power to mediate grace and forgiveness from that son, named Bacchus, and in other records, Tammuz. Tammuz was said to have died a sacrificial death and been reborn. (Source, ibid.) Mary is also said to ‘mediate grace.’ Interesting parallel, don’t you think?
Do you know the story of Babylon? It is most interesting. You can read it in Genesis 11:1-9. God confounded the speech of the people, forcing them to spread out across the earth in groups that shared the same language. Guess what they brought with them? You are right; they brought their false religion with them. The only things that differed were the names of their ‘deities’ and some minor details.
CHINA’S ‘HOLY MOTHER’ Thus you can find Semaramis and Tammuz appearing in ancient China as Shing Moo, the “holy mother,” with a golden circle around her head. (Source: Crabb’s Mythology, Page 150. Also found in LePerelafitan, Les des Savages Ameriquains, Volume 1, page 235.)
EGYPTS ‘DIVINE MOTHER’ Yet again the ‘divine mother’ appears in Egypt as Isis, with her ‘divine son’ Horus (Osiris), with the same claims to being the ‘mother of god’ and ‘mediator of forgiveness.’ It is also of interest to note that in Egypt, the supposed physical body of Horus (the savior) was offered to believers in the form of a round, wafer-like bit of unleavened bread, with three letters imprinted thereon to signify the Egyptian trinity of Isis – Horus – Set. (Source: Bunsen, Volume i, page 438)
These letters, translated into the Latin language, are “IHS.” and are imprinted on Rome’s ‘host.’ The proffered meaning is “In Hoc Signos” (in this sign). It occurs to me that the phrase, “In This Sign” appears to have absolutely no meaning, no relationship to Rome’s practice of the Eucharist. If there is a connection, it is not in evidence. Is in merely a coincidence of translation that the same English letters could stand for Isis-Horus-Set? If nothing else, it matches perfectly with the original Egyptian practice of eating a wafer-god.
My Roman Catholic surfers will easily recognize this symbolism. For my non-Catholic surfers, I should tell you that this is the exact same form used in the Roman Catholic Eucharist; only the names have been changed. All else remains as it was thousands of years ago in Egypt, and before that in Babylon. Without realizing it, our Catholic friends, thinking they worship Mary and Jesus Christ, really worship Semaramis and Tammuz.
ROME’S ‘HOLY MOTHER’ Rome freely admits to ‘borrowing’ many icons, images, concepts and beliefs from the ancient mystery religions, in order to ‘Christianize’ them. Yet the Bible mentions these particular beliefs only five times (Jeremiah 7:18-19; 44:17-19, 25), and in each case it is with a scathing indictment of the concept itself! God Himself condemned the concept of ‘queen of heaven’ and ‘mother of god!’
When Rome adopted the pagan symbols and doctrines about a ‘queen of heaven,’ a ‘divine mother,’ a ‘mediatrix of all graces,’ a ‘mother of god,’ and the idea of a reborn redeemer’s body and blood being physically present in a wafer of unleavened bread, only one thing changed – the names! All else remained intact. Thus do Roman Catholic believe and worship false gods based, not on the Bible, but on occult sources that God condemns.
Was Mary conceived without the stain of sin?
Even the Catholic church Father Augustine affirms Mary was a “sinner” and needed a saviour. Excerpts of Church Father Agustine.
Augustine on Mary
Augustine declared that Mary’s flesh was “flesh of sin.” (De Peccatorum Meritis, ii, c. 24).
“Mary, springing from Adam, died because of sin; and the flesh of our Lord, derived from Mary, died to take away sin.” (De Peccatorum Meritis, ii, c. 24).
Keep in mind that the Roman Catholic Church uses obfuscation to divert attention from the historical fact that Mary actually died and was buried. Rome never comes right out and says that she died! No, she says instead that “When her earthly work was done she was assumed into Heaven.” Can you figure this evasion? Can you discern Rome’s reason? Yes, indeed. What with Rome’s elevating Mary to the status of the Trinity, and worshiping Mary as our divine ‘Mediatrix of all Graces,’ Rome has painted herself into a corner. To admit that Mary was a sinner just like us would put the lie to Rome’s dogma of the Immaculate Conception, wouldn’t it!
@Moses Daniel – in reply below to your post at #1226:
I see you have not understood my explanation of Matthew 17:1-4. Ok below i give two reasons to give you a clear understanding.
(1) Yes…Moses and Elijah WERE ministering to Jesus……but notice that neither Peter, James, or John ever said ANYTHING to Moses or Elijah. When Peter spoke in verse 4, it was to JESUS alone…the ONLY Mediator between God and man(1 Timothy 2:5).
Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount of Transfiguration, it was a type or picture of the second advent, with Moses representing the Law, and Elijah representing the prophets. It was special one time event. No one in the Bible ever prayed to a dead saint. There is only one mediator between God and man. Technically, you’re still in the O.T. In Matt. 17 anyway, Jesus hasn’t died on the cross. In the N.T. Jesus is the only mediator.
(2) You have relied only on Matthew 17:1-4 which is again an error on your part because it is the same thing every one does not taking the surrounding verses in context. Verse 5 is the important one, when Peter and James heard the audible voice of God very clearly – “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.†See Matthew 17:5. This verse is important that God is telling us to be obedient and listen to the teachings of Jesus which Catholics are disobedient and are only trying to scout for bible verses to support praying to Mary and saints who have passed away from their earthly life. There is no support in scripture to the false teaching of the RC Church in praying to Mary or dead Saints. If you truly love Jesus believe the Bible, take up your cross and follow Jesus.
Natheniel, Are you worried only about Philippines? you know,99.999% Catholic Churches in the world are infected by other religious cultures.and it is like cancer which is very difficult to cure but it spreads. still i got some good information, thanks for that. please don’t stop, at least some may repent. I Pray for all.
Tonsil, -1231- Moses and Elijah appeared on the Mountain. why?
simple,JESUS wanted to show some of his most important disciples that JESUS is the only one who is capable to visit or speak or do what ever HE wishes for, with the Dead ones. did Moses or Elijah speak to Peter, James or John? no. did Peter, James or John speak to Moses and Elijah? no. but to JESUS? yes.this subject is only to show us that, JESUS has sole authority to do anything on the world, below the world and above the world. read 1Peter3:19,20.
Celestino, Thanks for your reply. and sorry that i have to opine openly that you are not thorough in Bible. you read or accept only the verses that support your views of knowledge. even then you failed. lets see. Mat12:42 & Luk11:31. The woman with whom you compared to Mary is not Mary, but a woman who listened to solomon,s wisdom and followed it.so she would be raised to life and at Judgement day she will condom the teachers of law and pharisees.Again JESUS says, “HE (JESUS) is greater than solomon”. so follow JESUS ONLY.
Mat11:19 & Luk7:35 these two doesn’t make any sense to my posting. Rev11:19. Ark of Covenant cannot be Mary, because, The Ark was made according to gods instruction by his chosen people. it does not have life but a holy box.whereas Mary was a human with life, now died, later, will be risen when JESUS comes for the second time.
Now, The woman in the chapter of Rev 12. it is written a woman, no name. Dear Celestino, if you could not recognize your mother, either you are blind or mentally ill. remember while on the Cross, JESUS gave Mary to John and said, here, take your mother. so, if the woman in Rev12 was Mary, why did John neglect her? John, now son of Mary must have revealed like, ” My Mother Mary, clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head”. but he din’t.if he purposely hid this matter means, we cannot trust all his revelations. you may start a new story that she was wearing so and so clothes and crown, hence John could not recognize her. Am i right? and she was pregnant.again JESUS? Hello Brother, these revelations are yet to happen. do not dig up and add some story into this. when we do not know something, better to keep quiet.
Celestino, if you are a Church father or preacher or theological teacher or any form of christian leader,it is certain, that,the people whoever were and are under you have taken tickets to hell. JESUS or HOLY SPIRIT have not declared as you think. but the spirit of darkness is controlling you. please repent.and TURN BACK TO GOD. I pray the GRACE of GOD be upon you.
@tonsil – In reply to post #1231
Dear Tonsil,
It is really a great and brilliant question you have asked and a very important one.
WHY did Elijah and Moses appear on the mountain with Jesus? The common view is ..
The Jews of that time and even many till today did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. They (the Jews) expected a “Warrior-Messiah” and not a “Suffering-Messiah” to come and liberate the world and establish his earthly kingdom – something that is going to be fulfilled in the future.
So since Peter, James and John were Jews, Jesus took them to the mountain to show them the transfiguration and to prove that He is the Son of the true Living God who has the power to converse with the Old Testament Saints who had passed away from their earthly life. It also is to serve a a proof that there is an “after-life” in Christ Jesus by believing and trusting him alone for salavtion.
It was also to call attention to the greatnesses that he is fulfilling the Law (Moses) and (Elijah) Prophets. And it transformed the Apostles themselves and they truly believed Who Jesus was/is (John 1:14).
This is briefly I can explain why Moses and Elijah did appear with Jesus on the mountain. For a more detailed and best explanation, please go to http://evidenceoftruth.org/moses_and_elijah_and_the_transfi.htm
A SIDE NOTES :
(1) It also pays to refer to a good bible translation. I believe God has preserved His Holy Word in the King James Bible (KJV) and is the accurate translation and will give you correct understanding.
(2) When refering to scriptures in the Gospels we must note that 3 Gospels (Mathew|Mark|Luke) are synoptic Gospels which share similar views. So we must not restrict ourselves to understand what the Gospel of Matthew says about Moses and Elijah on the Transfiguration subject but also see what the other Gospels of Mark and Luke explain about it. In fact Luke 9:31 tells us more specifically what Moses and Elijah are conversing with Jesus, something that Matthew’s Gospel is not mentioned.
(3) To understand Biblical studies i also believe one needs to be born-again (John 3:3) as a pre-requisite. God will not reveal all truths to unbelievers.
Hope this helps and God Blessings as always.
Death of a believer in the Bible is described as “sleep”. The “soul” of a believer who has died in Christ is alive. Matthew 10:28 says – And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Jesus is God incarnate in the flesh so he holds the keys to death and hell see Revelation 1:18.
Jesus called Lazarus soul to life after being dead for a couple of days.
When Jesus was transfigured before Peter and Company, It is mentioned that they saw Moses and Elijah appear and talking to Jesus. This likely means God the Father sent Moses and Elijah to counsel with Jesus as to what he would accomplish on the cross at Jesusalem.
This is my personal opinion based on two incidents in the Gospels.
(i) When John the Baptist baptize Jesus, God the Father told John beforehand that when he would see the Holy Spirit of God (a dove) descending on the chosen Messiah (Jesus) as he came out of the water.
(ii) In Gospel of Mathew we see Jesus after being in the desert for 40 days fasting the devil came to tempt him. The devil departed after Jesus rebuked him. Then we see that God sent angels to minister unto Jesus.
I admire you for being brave to challenge what I have manifested about the Woman. This will be a good start to discuss further and hear both our opinions on the subject matter that had been to test.
Now, will see your premise and let our readers decide which argument gives more weight on every issue that you raised.
“The woman with whom you compared to Mary is not Mary, but a woman who listened to solomon,s wisdom and followed it. so she would be raised to life and at Judgement day she will condom the teachers of law and pharisees.Again JESUS says, “HE (JESUS) is greater than solomonâ€. so follow JESUS ONLY.†Mat.12:42 & Luk11:31.Quoted from posting #1232:
And this is what I posted #1212:“…because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the Wisdom of Solomon; and see, there is something greater than Solomon is here.†From what verse did you get “ He (Jesus) is greater than Solomon.(?) so follow Jesus Only.†Hello!!! Are you interpreting? Or are you inserting additional phrase to suit your liking? That’s the problem with you guys you always add or cull phrases in the scripture to justify your own folly.
Another thing, in Mt.12-42 & Lk. 11-31; the subject Jesus was discussing was the Queen of the South and He makes clear to us to understand and revealed that what He was discussing is in a feminine pronoun (She): “She came from the ends of the earth to hear the Wisdom of Solomon.†Really, I do not wish to correct you but you asked for it. Next time do not add or cull especially when you are quoting verses in the Scriptures; maybe you can interpret just as many of our brothers are doing right now to justify their own argument. That can be accepted but of course can be refuted.
Have you cared to cross check verses like,Wisdom of Solomon 8:1-7,8:8-12,1:5-6,6:12-13,1Kings,10:1-3,1Kings3:12,1Kings5:9-14,Prov.8:22-30,8:27-30,Job11:5-6,Wis.9:7-9,Sirac1:4-10,&24-10,Gen.1:26-27,Bar.3:32&37-38,Sirac15:1-2,Wis.10:1-21,Gen.1:26-27,Gen.3:15-17,& lastly Rev.11:19 & Rev.12:1-17; as my supporting references to MT.12-42 & Lk. 11-31: I believe not, because if you did you may ( not calling me blind & mentally ill) see light to guide you to what I mean.
Taken in part in your previous posting #1219:we all love MARY. she did her part very wonder fully.we keep her part as witness and respect her. Really!!! But your action and behavior towards Her betrays your position that you are all out to demean Her if not to discredit Her. When was the last time you call Her Blessed amongst Women? This is what the Bible declared in the Magnificat; (Lk.1:48) Yes, from this day forward all generations will call me Blessed: You as what you have said in the same posting “NO My Dear friends, it is very simple.what was given is sufficient.†There is no doubt that what you mean of this statement is that the bible is sufficient as indicated in the precedent sentence. Well if that is the case why did you not put this into practice? Calling her, blessed are you amongst Women!
Sister Shyla, stop pretending, you can hide no secret in the eyes of God. Here was the similarity into our discussion declared by Our Lord Jesus Christ himself. I humbly suggest you take note of this instruction for your benefit not to be tripped in your future discussion.
Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus. They came from Jerusalem and asked Jesus, “Why do your followers not obey the rules given to us by our great people that lived before us? Your followers don’t wash their hands before they eat!” Jesus answered, “And why do you refuse to obey God’s command so that you can follow those rules you have? God said, ‘You must honor (respect) your father and mother.’ And God also said, ‘Any person that says bad things to his father or mother must be killed.’ But you teach that a person can say to his father or mother, ‘I have something I could use to help you. But I will not use it to help you. I will give it to God.’ You teach that person to not honor his father. So you teach that it is not important to do what God said. You think that it is more important to follow those rules you have. You are hypocrites ! Isaiah was right when he spoke about you. Isaiah said: ‘These people say they honor me, but they don’t really make me an important part of their lives. Their worship of me is for nothing. The things they teach are only rules that people have made.'” Jesus called the people to him. Jesus said, “Listen and understand what I am saying. It is not the things a person puts in his mouth that make him wrong. It is the things a person says with his mouth that make him wrong.” Then the followers came to Jesus and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees are angry because of what you said?” Jesus answered, “Every plant that my Father in heaven has not planted himself will be pulled up by the roots. Stay away from the Pharisees. They lead the people, but they are like blind men leading other blind men. And if a blind man leads another blind man, then both men will fall into a hole.” Peter said, “Explain to us what you said earlier to the people.” Jesus said, “You still have trouble understanding? Surely you know that all the food that enters a person’s mouth goes into the stomach. Then that food goes out of the body. But thebad things a person says with his mouth come from the way a person thinks. And these are the things that make a person wrong. All these bad things begin in a person’s mind: evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual sins, stealing, lying, saying bad things against other people. These things make a person wrong. But not washing his hands before he eats does not make a person wrong.”
( Matthew 15:1-20): I hope next time you will be guided accordingly by the word of God.
Another flawed argument you think will carry you to a sound discussion is this: why did John neglect her? John, now son of Mary must have revealed like, †My Mother Mary, clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her headâ€. but he din’t.if he purposely hid this matter means, we cannot trust all his revelations. you may start a new story that she was wearing so and so clothes and crown, hence John could not recognize her. Am i right? and she was pregnant.again JESUS? Hello Brother, these revelations are yet to happen. do not dig up and add some story into this.
REPLY: First imputed question is wrong at the very start. Did John of the Cross really neglect Her? (John19:27) “And from that moment the disciple made a place for Her in his home.â€
It is very amazing you came up with the idea of making your script to bait me to enter into discussion like this. It will not work on me. I will not go down to your level to satisfy your stage attraction. I am asking you to make your point clear and use your knowledge of the scripture you said is sufficient to carry you in explaining Rev.12?
Jesus King of Mercy I trust in you. “Oh Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Shyla, Jibson and ors.
The core subject title of this post is – “Should we pray to Virgin Mary .. So lets stick within the parameters of scripture only trying to ascertain whether whether scripture in the New Testament actually teaches we should pray to Virgin Mary or not. Lets ignore some wacky stuff other than reference to the scriptures that is the Word of God. We must obey Christ only, because in the New Testament God The Father specifically has commanded us to ONLY look to Jesus – “This is my Beloved Son, listen to Him”. We honour Mary the Mother of Jesus our Saviour, much as we honour the other saints and that’s about it. We cannot “add” our humanistic feelings and sentimentalism to the God breathed scriptures as per our own whims fancies and look like fools. We should ignore thick-heads who think their above the scriptures.
God Blessings.
Returning to this website after months.
Noticed many persons joining up in argument and then leaving off.
But, most of the points of argument (almost all) remain the same. There seems to be a long trenchline with many soldiers on either side.
It would be very fruitful if all the points of argument were summarized and posted on a new topic. This would help in reducing further lengthening of the trenchline.
Georgy, how about taking it up. This could be your redeeming moment.
Hope this would help you and all of us to focus on the foundations of faith as seen in the Bible.
God bless you all.
Jimson
In the name of Jesus, without arguing in the name of Holy Mary or Saints, please follow the principles of Jesus. I hope that all Christians – Catholic, Protestant, Pentecost or any other christian – have one focus – towards Jesus who never likes the argument(s) in terms of his mother or in terms of his followers.
THINK GOD!! THINK JESUS !! And walk in all stages of life to live with him in Heaven.
Sheeja
Holy means “a person who never|cannot sin”. ONLY God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Ghost are Holy. The rest of the human race have “sinned” says Romans 3:23.
dear nathaniel,
human race have “sinned†says Romans 3:23.
This is exactly and absolutly true.
Being sinner you cannot reach GOD
Until unless sinner repents for his sins.
Holy spirit guides you until and unless you are holy
Make note of this
However saints keep on praying as we do not reach to GOD
@Moses Daniel
Being sinner you cannot reach GOD
Yes this is especially true if one is in catholic church. But as believer unlike other believers we are made righteous or forgiven when we are saved. The moment a believer surrenders and places trust in totality to Christ acknowledging the guilt of his/her sin, the believer is totally forgiven past, present and future sins, made a child of God as Christ purchased our salvation by his precious blood when he uttered the words “It is Finished” before dying on the cross at Calvary. My heart is fully assured 100% that i will be with Jesus in heaven when I pass away from this world. This is called biblical salvation of the Christian faith.
However as a Catholic you don’t have the assurance of forgiveness because all Catholics are perpetually bound by a false doctrine of salvation. A catholic cannot have the assurance of sins forgiven neither the assurance that upon death you will be with Jesus in heaven. All Catholics are required to be obedient to the false teachings of the RC Church. Essentially the RC Church denies biblical salvation and the blood atonement of Christ on the cross and teaches that Catholics are required to submit themselves to the 7 sacraments and then at the time of death, be in “state of grace” :( Hopefully ?? No assurance, whatsovere!. Zilch! Zilch! Oh my goodness can’t you really smell the deception?? That you are in perpetual bondage?
However saints keep on praying as we do not reach to GOD.
Can u please provide scriptural proof that saints keep on praying .. What assurance do you have that saints keeping on praying? Are you referring to alive saints or dead saints?
And as you say .. we do not reach to GOD. I have explained above that Christian believers have direct access to God’s throne of Grace and we pray to our only mediator Jesus the son of te living God. We are not Hindus, Buddists or other pagans who belive, pray to worship 200+ Gods. Todau its only biblical Christianity that gurantees you an assurance of heaven, that no other man made religions can assure.
My friend Moses Daniel investigate the truth and save you soul. I sincerely pray for you.
God Bless.
@Moses Daniel
One thing I forgot ..
Holy spirit guides you until and unless you are holy.
The Holy Spirit comes to in-dwell in all bible believing christians at the moment of salvation and make us to lead and live holy lives. of course when a believer a child of God sins we approach God via Jesus who forgives our sins 1 John 1:9. But Catholics do not have the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit.
@Moses Daniel:
Holy spirit guides you until and unless you are holy.
DO YOU MEAN TO SAY THAT THE CATHOLIC POPE IS “HOLY” AND WITHOUT SIN AND THAT IS WHY CATHOLICS CALL HIM HOLY FATHER?
DID YOU KNOW THAT ONLY GOD CAN BE CALLED HOLY AS PER JOHN 17:11?
DID YOU KNOW THAT THE CATHOLIC POPE STOLE THAT TITLE FRADULENTLY? A TITLE WHICH ONLY BELONGS TO GOD?
@Moses,
Trust me Catholic church is a pagan church. I was there for 40 years.after reading the bible i came to know the truth.In this forum I asked so many simple questions, but not even one was answered !
I pray for you. God bless you.
@Celestino: Stop sending long stories. Those are the fairy tales from vatican.
God bless you too.
@shyla… where r u from ? God bless you
Dear Tonsil, Replay to your post # 1234.
Peter, James and John are not ordinary people .they are among the three writers of the BIBLE’s last 4 authors. And why the vision to Peter and others? Maybe because this event must be included in The BIBLE, so we can conclude that JESUS has the Right and power to appear, speak and command with the dead one. One thing I am sure, we cannot converse with the dead one.
Dear Celestino, This is the best answer I can give to your post # 1236.
– From what verse did you get he (JESUS) is greater than Solomon. – Nowhere but from the verses of Mat12;42 and Luke 11;31.And it was spoken by the very mouth of my dear LORD JESUS CHRIST. After going through your objections, I really felt, there may be a chance I was wrong. So I, again and again read these verses in different Bible versions. Not satisfied I met some Catholic elders and discussed regarding this. Thank GOD, all of them agreed that it is JESUS himself. Still not satisfied I searched for some Bible commentary and found the below one.
Uttermost parts; a very distant country. Greater than Solomon; though Solomon was the greatest of men as to wisdom, 1Ki 3:13, Jesus was greater than he, A calm assertion of superhuman majesty and wisdom. The second sign of our Lord’s mission is HIS KINGLY WISDOM. As the
fame of Solomon brought the queen of the south from the uttermost parts
of the earth, so does the doctrine of our Lord command attention from the
utmost isles of the sea. If Israel perceives not his glorious wisdom,
Ethiopia and Seba shall hear of it, and come bowing before him. The queen
of Sheba will rise again, and will “rise up†as a witness against unbelieving
Jews; for she journeyed far to hear Solomon, while they would not hear the
Son of God himself who came into their midst. The superlative excellence
of his wisdom stands for our Lord as a sign, which can never be effectually
disputed. What other teaching meets all the wants of men? Who else has
revealed such grace and truth? He is infinitely greater than Solomon, who
from a moral point of new exhibited a sorrowful littleness
And the next part. What do you really mean by respecting anyone? Especially to the dead people? Bow down? Plead to intercede? Share the Glory of GOD with them? Or totally surrender to them? Or what? I still say that, we believers of the Living GOD, respect Mary the mother of JESUS’s earthly times. Admiring her part and telling others, how obedient she was. A good lady blessed by the LORD. Lots of hard time she faced during JESUS childhood and all. As per the word of GOD, all generation call her blessed. Yes we do call her blessed. So what dear? There are many more other people who were blessed by GOD. So what dear? You know, if I spiritually speak, I am blessed, because JESUS is in me. I am living as Holy as possible. So what dear? I just can greet all you people who are alive now. And you people who are alive can greet me. Mary , whom I mentioned above is dead, and sleeping in JESUS. She will be awake at time of JESUS’s second coming. We don’t talk to sleeping persons or dead people. And most importantly, we don’t agree to that, the woman you people pronounce Mary, is the mother of JESUS’s earthly period. But a counterfeit. Sorry we cannot give any respect to this one. We just keep her away to be safe. And as per the LORD’s command, JESUS did honor his FATHER till his death on the cross. And he honored his earthly mother, while he was on the cross by giving a safe hand, that of John.
Next you posted my argument was flawed, regarding Rev12. I was not arguing but pointing you, when John sees a woman, IF, IF, IF that woman was Mary, why did not John write it in his revelation? That was the part I was saying “neglectâ€. Not at the Golgotha event ( Joh 19;27 ). The woman in Rev12 was unknown to John, so he wrote a ‘woman’. So she is not Mary. Take care please. This posting is not any bait to deceive you. But I am trying my level best to notify you people, what you are doing is wrong.
GOD Bless you.
Babu,
Thanks for your prayer. I am an Indian. I live in Bangalore.I am sure, as per the following words of GOD, ps25:12, ps111:10 we are all blessed. And let us pray for the others to be blessed as we are.
I acknowledge that it was Jesus speaking as clearly seen in my article the first time I have released my personal view of the said verse; but how I arrived to the conclusion that the subject “Queen of the South†does not refer to anyone else but to the one (She) who came from the ends of the earth to listen to the Wisdom of Solomon because Jesus indicates the use of the feminine pronoun SHE, and if you will notice it does not end with a period but a comma (“and see, there is something greater than Solomon is hereâ€)indicating the continuity of His discourse on the subject matter referring to the Queen of the South…and that SHE came from the ends of the earth! The last few words of the sentence “and see, there is something greater than Solomon is hereâ€, does not refer to Jesus because He was the one actually discoursing what will happen on judgment day when She who came from the ends of the earth will condemn the men of that generation.
I shall agree with your reasoning Jesus is greater than Solomon if we shall remove or cull the predicated statement of Jesus “Queen of the South will arise… because She came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon.†But that is not the case here. Why? Because Jesus would surely make it clear what He meant: Like for example; in Mathew 12:5-8, “Or again, have you not read in the Law that on the Sabbath day the temple priest break the Sabbath without being blamed for it? Now here, I tell you, is something greater than the temple. (It was almost the same language of what we are talking about) And if you had understood the meaning of the words: What I want is mercy, not sacrifice, you would not condemn the blameless. FOR THE SON OF MAN IS MASTER OF THE SABBATH.†See my lady! Jesus would surely make clear the statement not to remain ambiguous. The meaning is immediately explained in the text.
Now we shall try to study the literal application of the title “Queen of the Southâ€. Do you think it would make sense the Queen mentioned in our discussion not even a Jew but a heathen will make a big role to condemn people of that generation in judgment day? Fundamentalist brother even questioned the saints in heaven whether it is right to ask prayer for them, how much more for a non- Jew or a non-Christian we shall acknowledge her right in judgment day? Surely there would be howl of protest to our protestant brothers! So, literal application does not apply here but symbolical.
Now, we shall try to expound the passage “because she came from the ends of the earth to listen to the Wisdom of Solomon;†There is one instant in the gospel of Mathew 11:19, when Jesus said, “Yet wisdom proves right by her actions.†This passage is parallel to the gospel of Luke 7:35; “Yet Wisdom has been proved right by all her children;†Here, Jesus may be quoting the verse in the Book of Wisdom “She deploys her strength from one end of the earth to the other, ordering all things for good†(Wis.8:1): You can check posting #1212 for further explanation and supporting references.
The glorious mystery of Mary is not easy to discern. But when you read the Scripture the way the early Christians did — understanding the references to the fulfillment of the old law in the new — it is clear the sacred authors are instructing us in Mary’s role as Mother of God and Queen of Heaven, the ark of the new covenant, Jesus Christ.
Point One
Jesus has a queen who stands at his right hand. Witness Psalm 45: 6-18, a prophecy about the Messiah:
“Your arrows are sharp; peoples are subject to you; the king’s enemies lose heart. Your throne, O God, stands forever and ever; a tempered rod is your royal scepter. You love justice and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellow kings. With myrrh and aloes and cassia your robes are fragrant; from ivory palaces string music brings you joy. The daughters of kings come to meet you; THE QUEEN TAKES HER PLACE AT YOUR RIGHT HAND in gold of Ophir. Hear, O daughter, and see; turn your ear, forget your people and your father’s house. So shall the king desire your beauty; for he is your lord, and you must worship him… I will make your name memorable through all generations; therefore shall nations praise you forever and ever.”
Point Two
The queen who stands at Jesus’ right hand, whose name the Lord promises will be made “memorable through all generations,” must be Mary, the mother of Jesus. For, as we see in Luke 1: 48, Mary herself proclaims the prophecy of the psalm fulfilled when, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, she echoes it by saying: “…behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.” By including this passage in her Magnificat, the inspired Gospel writer is clearly signaling the faithful that she will be the QUEEN who is at the right hand of the Messiah.
Point Three
In Revelation 12, we see a tableaux with a female figure bearing a child. We know the child is the Messiah by the reference, “destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod” — which recalls the Messianic prophecy in Psalm 2:7 –
“The Lord said to me, ‘You are my son; this day I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will give you the nations for an inheritance and the ends of the earth for your possession. You shall rule them with an iron rod; you shall shatter them like an earthen dish.'”
Now, if the child in Revelation 12 is Jesus, the woman from whom he issues can only be Mary. Here’s why:
We see a vision of her in the heavens, clothed in the sun, wearing a crown, a symbol of royalty: “A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. Then another sign appeared in the sky; it was a huge red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadems. Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky and hurled them down to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne. The woman herself fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God, that there she might be taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days…
“When the dragon saw that it had been thrown down to the earth, it pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year. The serpent, however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current. But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth. Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commands and bear witness to Jesus.”
Some claim that the woman here represents the Church. This is not so. Remember that the Church is the Body of Christ, Jesus Christ in the world. Jesus is the Head of the Church, and through Baptism, we are baptised into Christ and die and rise with Him, and become members of His body. The imagery from the scripture is clear – the male child is the Messiah, the Savior, Jesus. It is only logical to keep the family of symbols the same and acknowledge that the woman is the Mother or our Lord, the virgin Mary. Notice how the scripture refers to the ‘rest of her offspring’ as those who bear witness to Jesus and keep the commandments of God. Recall the instructions of Jesus to ‘keep the commandments’ as being the way to follow Him? The ‘offspring’ can only be the Church. This follows the teaching of St. Paul who called us ‘brothers of the Lord’. We are His brother and we are also members of His Body. The scripture says that Jesus is the new Adam, the first born of the new creation. The scripture also says that we are also the offspring of the woman, Mary, who is the new Eve, the mother of all the new creation. This is why Catholics refer to Mary as ‘the Mother of the Church’ and ‘Our Mother’ because she was the mother of Jesus, who is the Church, the Body of Christ, and since we are brothers of Jesus and offspring of the woman, the title ‘Mother’ is rightly applied to Mary in regards to us as well, since we are members of the Body of Christ. This is why the woman in the image of scripture must be Mary and cannot be the Church – If the woman represents the Church, then we’re left with the obvious anomaly of the Church being the offspring of the Church . . .
This means that, granted the woman is Mary, the Apostle and evangelist John is depicting her in a glorious and compelling new light — as the Queen of Heaven
Point four
Other claims that the woman was Israel! says, “Israel here is portrayed as a wife who became a pagan temple prostitute.” says, “Israel here is portrayed as a wife who became a pagan temple prostitute.” That is a possibility, but I think the more conservative commentaries are more correct. She is portrayed as an unfaithful wife whose unfaithfulness is displayed in a far wider range of life and activities than just religious.
He adds in Hosea5:4, “They do not direct their deeds toward turning to their God, for the spirit of harlotry is in their midst, and they do not know the LORD.”
Israel has followed the pagan prostitutes’ habits. Hosea saw this and declares in Hosea 9:1, “You have been unfaithful to your God; you love the wages of a prostitute” (NIV). Here, clearly stated, is cause and effect. As a whole, Israel loves the way of the heathen; she has made it hers.
No one can dispute Rev.12:5 refers to Jesus Christ, “She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne.†So, if we shall follow the reasoning it was Israel who had given birth to Jesus, this would not be fit in harmony with the scripture. For Scripture says:( Wisdom1:4-5)..the holy spirit of instruction shuns deceit, it stands aloof from reckless purposes, is taken aback when inequity appears.â€To sum up, Israel is portrayed as an unfaithful wife!
Now we will look at Marian application if it fits with the scripture. TheWoman in Rev.12:1= Luke1:26;Rev.12:1= John19:26;Rev.12:1= John2:1-11;Rev.12:1= Gal.4:4;Rev.12:1=Gen.3:15:All fits and are in harmony with the words of the scriptures. Lastly, in the Song of songs we can read these verses;6:9-10; “But my dove is unique, mine, unique and perfect. She is the darling of Her mother, the favorite of the one who bore Her. The maiden saw Her, and proclaimed Her blessed, queens and concubines sang Her praises: Who is this arising like the dawn,Fait is the moon, resplendent as the sun, terrible as an army with banners?†(Song of songs4:7); “You are wholly beautiful, my love, and without a blemish.â€
Jesus King Of Mercy I trust in you. “Oh, Mary conceived without sin pray for us who have recourse to thee!
celestina,
Stop sending these long mail. Can you prove when mother mary went to heaven?
why john not seeing mary in heaven?
when she got crown from god?
why she is going to flee for 1260 days?
In her life she never seen rosary,then why now she is appearing with rosary?
do some basic research and find out from where we got the rosary.
only god can hear our prayers.
when mary was here the language english was not invented!
Bible clearly mention the dead cannot help us.
No one is going to read your stories… so pl dont waste your time.
read the bible.. do not trust vatican stories.
may god bless you
@ Babu.( 1249)
Forget about English for a while.
Who has not done the research really?! Your questions lack the very logic.
Why are you not ready to read the long mail?
You have tried to prove what you wanted earlier, now you may disprove what others say by using your view & of course scriptures. Please do not make vain efforts to bypass what is being presented.
@ Babu:
I know when a person spiritually discerns the truth from error, we compare the new revelations with scripture just like the bereans who searched the scriptures daily. Once the “fluff” is discovered, one can simply ignore the garbage. Good work Brother.. :)
Thanks Brother.
I see the problem with tonsil is that he is not able to discern spiritual truths. The problem arises because people do not know who really is Jesus and his deity:
(i) Jesus is the Son of God – that is God himself incarnate in the flesh. He became flesh having born by virgin birth. However Jesus unlike the Apostles and us who are mortal human beings who only posses a single “mortal” nature, Jesus God in the flesh possessed a double nature – “mortal and “divine”.
(2.) Because of his dual nature, and to prove before the Apostles that he the Son of the Living God only has the absolute power to unite the souls of Moses and Elijah with their bodies in presence of God the Father whose voice was heard as saying – “This is my beloved Son: hear him”.
(3.) Jesus had taken 3 of his trustworthy disciples – the “core group” as they were close to Him, to prove to them by transfiguring himself before them that he was the Son of the true living God.
(4.) The 3 Apostles were temporarily shown the vision by Jesus.
But notice that at that transfiguration, the Apostles did not speak to either Moses or Elijah. They were just presented with the vision so they could believe that Jesus was who he claimed to be – the Son of God – the Second person of the Trinity.
Now the problem I see tonsil has is that, we as mortal human beings tend to look from the angle of human level and not at the spiritual level, because as i said above, Jesus had two natures (human+divine) in contrast to us humans having only a single nature.
Now just because the Apostles saw the dead persons does it mean we can pray to the dead?. The answer is a NO. I have stated the reasons above and more specifically Jesus the Son of God has the keys to Death and Hell (Revelations 1:18). During his earthly life, he possesses the power to call back souls who went to sleep e.g. Lazarus.
@tonsil
@Nathaniel Fernandes
@shyla
@celestino culaba
@babu
My dear Ones,
We all are human going forward with human brain.
We are trying to prove our belief with our knowledge finding scriptures.
How far you will seek scriptures…
My dera friends, seek JESUS and ask holy spirit to rule in you and guide you
This will help us to know the fact..
even early saints were filled with Hloy spirit to preech, publish and do miracles…
Even satan know the BIBLE very much, he also knows scriptures.
Who even tried to argue with JESUS telling scriptues..
hence seek GOD JESUS our saviour
and for this Holy spirit shoud guide us and along with all our prayes and prayers of patrian saints..
Till now my dear friends no one have submitted our petitions before GOD and asked holy spirit to guide
only telling scriptures
surrender ourself to GOD let GOD guide and Judge
Thanks for the hearty message of Moses Daniel – let the GOD guide and judge.
May God bless us all and holy spirit to guide us!!
I am not believe in Mother Mery. i know she is the Mother of JESUS but all the things done by Holy Spirit… So worship Jesus as your saviour because he is one n only in the world who is dead for our sins….
I believe in Mother Mary. I know her she is the Mother of Jesus and she is my mother too. She cares and hold my hand in all walks of my life. God and Jesus along with Mary is living in my heart and in my family just like my parents are living with me.
My dear friends,
Warm regards to all
Peace be with us
First of all, a christian is not the one who knows scripture
One who invites JESUS CHRIST in him with true heart and mind
A christian must be always humble and go forward with holy spirit guidance
We must respect the people who are on this journey
Remember and respect them, so that it is praises to GOD
I give an example…
If an artist made a beautiful painting, and if you say, “What a beautiful painting”
here who is praised and appreciated
This is what we must understand