Why should we pray to Virgin Mary? The reasons are many.
Why do Catholics pray to Mother Mary? Is Rosary really powerful?
The intercession of Mother Mary is very powerful as Jesus cannot neglect His mothers commands.This can be proved by the first miracle Jesus did at the wedding at Cana. – (John 2:1-11). Mother Mary told Jesus “They have no more wine.” And what was the final result? He turned water into wine.
In “The Poem of the Man-God” by Maria Valtorta, she says that Jesus told her about this incident as “I did it for Mary”. This proves that the intercession of Mother Mary is very very strong.
Mother Mary was blessed with Holy Spirit abundantly. We can see this as we read “At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” (Luke 1:39-41) ; just by Virgin Mary’s greeting.
Listen to the talk from Apologetics on Mary, Purgatory and The Bible
What the angels thought on this matter:-
When angel appeared before Zechariah,father of John, angel just greets him by his name ,nothing more although he was “upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commandments and regulations blamelessly.” – (Luke 1:6)
When angel appeared before Joseph, the greeting was like this: “an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” – (Matthew 1:20). Angel greeted him ‘son of david’, thats all.
Now let us see how did the angel greet Virgin Mary. It goes like this: “The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” (Luke 1:28). See the difference….
Also read the article Mary, The Mystical Rose
Sadly, however, because of sin and satan many have abandoned your truth and reached conclusions contrary to your word which has led to the creation of many churches throughout the world.Even the father of Protestantism Martin Luther as I referred to in an earlier contribution opposed the Holy Spirit and added to The Bible his own contribution.And the existence of so many Protestant Churces throughout the world confirms the reality of the danger of private interpretation.
At the time of the so called protestant reformation tha justification for it was that the Catholic Church had gone astray therefore it had to be reformed.But there must have been a lot of going astray within the movement of protestantism for when its seed was set there was a harvest of reformist communities or churches as confirmed by history.
What I am doing here is to express the truth and to emphasise that I am not personally opposed to Protestants.I believe sincerely in Catholicism and I am happy to see sincere people following Christ even if they are in touch with only part of the truth.And because of the work of satan over the centuries and the chaos that he has brought about among believers I am a strong advocate of the ecumemical movement towards christian unity, for I believe that it is in accordance with the will of Our Creator.
Ayrone,
Mary is not equal to her son Jesus for Jesus is God.But she is blessed of all women for she was chosen before creation to be mother of Jesus.Now if Jesus is God as confirmed by holy scripture Mary is the Mother of God.Simple logic!
Please recall what I have written previously on ‘enmity’.In Genesis the Blessed Virgin is seen as the woman and and the mother of the seed of victory(Jesus)over satan.Thus Mary shared in the same enmity as her son towards satan’s seed of evil.Now recall St Paul the effects of the seed (evil)of satan are sin and death.But Mary was sinless in fact she triumphed over sin in her immaculate conception which was the will of God.Secondly she conquered the corruption of death, that is,Mary was assumed into heaven.Yes in accordance with the 10 Commandments especially the 4th Jesus ‘honour your father and your mother’ definitely did that.
John:
Mary is not some one who is still sleeping waiting for the Day of Judgment. She is already in Heaven with Our Lord! We don’t ask you to pray to Her, it is your own will to do so, but we ask the respect that She deserves, that even Our Lord Jesus gave Her, after-all Jesus will surly won’t like the way you people speak about Her.
And John still i didn’t get a convincing answer from you about Marian apperations.
Yours in CHRIST,
GeOrGe.
John,
The sad aspect is an awareness that there are so called christians who oppose and hate the Church established by Jesus- The Catholic Church.Established and guaranteed by its founder that the gates of hell would not prevail against it and that until judgement day the ‘Keys of heaven’would be in its possession.Plus the power to forgive sin.
Of course sadness arises also from the reality of christian division which has only one source- satan,the father of lies.Thus because of sin and mankind’s ego state satan has had a temporary field day but he will fail.
Friends,
To those who do not honour God’s Mother inspite of the fact of ‘preservative redemption’which explains that Mary’s preservation from Original Sin was an application by God of the saving graces merited by Jesus on Calvary.Mary was redeemed at the moment of her conception through sanctifying grace by an application of Jesus’ merits on Calvary.God,being out of time,has the power to apply the graces of redemption to individuals in different times of history and did so to Mary at the first moment of her existence.Thus God’s sinless Word was born to a sinless virgin.
@ John on #550
You always asserted on church as being a spiritual church right? Let’s keep the Marian devotion aside for a while. Don’t we have anything in common ? If yes, then why not meditate on that and appreciate each other and thank our Lord for the same? Of course there can be only one truth. His grace is sufficient to know that.
About the faith! Do NOT judge. Because we never know the other person’s story.I know my story, that is enough for me.
Let’s pray for each other. I know you do. God bless you too.
Preethi
John,(554)
Please be aware that the New Testament came after the Old Testament and that ‘tradition’ walked hand in hand with with the ‘old’ as well as the ‘new’.Through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit the New Testament was written by the members of the early Catholic Church- the Church which Jesus established to ensure that truth would prevail.And he guaranteed that through his church mankind would be saved.In fact the Catholic Church is the Body of Christ and, to repeat, its earlier members and leaders are responsible for the New Testament.We are assured of the truth via the Holy Spirit whom Jesus said, before his death, that he would send.Thus one Church one Bible.
George,
I repsect Mary for she is the chosen vessel as i do for Abraham,Moses,David,Solomon,etc..
I want you all to do the same…Let your time,faith be for Jesus alone.
And i believe what God written for me in Bible..i dont have ‘blind faith’ like Mary taken to Heaven and Marian apperations..
All answers for our belief is found in Bible..Be faithful and wise servant for the Lord.
God is with you.
Preethi:
I want my Brothers and Sisters not to have even a single dot of stain in their garments.
“Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy”Rev3:4
“Dead flies make the perfumer’s ointment give off a stench;
so a little folly outweighs wisdom and honor”Ecc10:1
Thats why am continuing this posts to show the right path and praying to God to open our eyes to Scripture and to have a right interpretation.
Praise God if we have anything common in Christ:-)
Alright John, as you say.We all belong here. ;)
I don’t think so all the answers are found in the Bible, Read The conclusion of St. John’s Gospel, He clearly says that Our Lord Jesus did many other things which were not written in this book, if He was to write all of those the whole of world cannot contain. There is Truth beyond the Bible, Bible is not some thing that fell from Heaven has a single book, it was written by Great people inspired by the Holy Spirit, and put together has Bible by Humans, those people decided to stop adding books has the present size itself is very big. So there are other books written by other Apostles and Saints which were not added (not found/written) at that time, They also share the same Truth.
And Marian devotions were not some thing that came up out of the blue yesterday, it is the Churches tradition even in the early days, there is a picture painted and brought to India by St. Thomas, the Apostel himself and it is still preserved in a hill top church deticated to St. Thomas in South India
So Marian Devotion and Devotion to Angles & Saints is not ‘blind faith’.
liam o comain :
Jesus came to do away with the hypocrisy and traditions of the pharisees and saducess. Jesus told them you put burdons on others that you yourself cannot keep
Jesus came that we might have life and be free of these traditions
The “catholic” church became the standard-bearer of orthodox doctrines as opposed to heretical ones. In reality, few of these doctrines were actually based on New Testament teachings. Rather, they represented a synthesis of pagan, Gnostic, and popular church beliefs of the time.
Jesus Christ founded the church which began at Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost and continued in the lives of those who truly belonged to Him and put their faith in Him, no matter what their relationship was to any particular leaders in the visible church structure.
Only Mary and her alone had an interior and crucial role in Jesus taking on human nature to become our Redeemer.Mary alone had an interior and essential participation in the Incarnation.Do not underestimate the role of Mary for to underestimate her role in God becoming man is also to underestimate the significance of God becoming man – the greatest event known in human history.The work of Moses, etc.,fantastic but nothing compared to Mary’s role.
The idea that all divinely revealed truths are explicitly contained in Scripture,is, in short,unscriptual!
Yes, you can quote 2Tim3:16 to support your position-“Everything in the scripture has been divinely inspired,and it has its uses:to instruct us,to expose our errors,to correct our faults,to educate in holy living”.(This would also confirm that the Catholic Church and its role is divinely inspired).
Now, while this passage describes the fruits of scripture in no way does it infer that scripture is the only source of divine revelation.As the great Protestant convert to Catholicism Newman wrote:”This passage furnishes no arguement whatever that the Sacred Scripture,without Tradition,is the sole rule of faith,for although Sacred Scripture is profitable for these four ends,still it is not said to be sufficient.The Apostle Paul requires the aid of tradition”(2Thes2:15)
Also, to conclude, the last Gospel ends with St. John informing the reader that everything Christ said and did is not recorded in Scripture (Jn 21:25) and again St Paul attests to much Christian teaching handed down in the oral tradition of the Church (2 Thes 2:2)
In relation your comment -550- you should be aware that when Jesus became man the genes that he carried within his body and blood were that of Mary,his mother. Thus, Mary’s genes were in the blood of Our Lord and were sweated in the garden prior to his arrest and during the crucifixion. At his death and after death the genes of Mary flowed.
Yes,John,just as you carry the genes of your parents Jesus carried the human genes of his mother.Although it was Jesus who shed his blood and is the only redeemer neverthless the genes of his mother was in him as he hung on the Cross.
Thus her genes were associated with our salvation.For I am the blood and the flesh combined of my mother and father as you are from your parents.Jesus also but only Mary’s.
Even Protestant authorities of various sects acknowledge that The Catholic Church was founded at Pentecost.That is why hundreds of years later so called ‘reformers’ arrived on the scene to seek ‘reformation’of it.But like yourself what they were doing was denying the guarantee of Jesus to Peter who was the 1st leader and father of the Christian community.(Later in time (about the 3rd century AD)those leaders who followed Peter adopted the title of ‘Pope’ which means ‘Father’.
Evangelist,please read the New Testament:’thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven…’That is God’s guarantee to the Church which he established on Pentecost.Thus it would appear that you like many founders of other churches are stating that Jesus lied to Peter and others at its foundation.And that the gates of hell has prevailed contrary to the word of God who is The Truth.
A lot of the break aways from Christ’s Church over the centuries since its beginning is that mans ego, at the basis of which is pride,fell victim to the manipulations of the devil.And his attacks continues at this very moment.
I thought that it would be of benefit for our readers and contributers especially in relation to the question ‘should we pray to the virgin mary’if I offered a piece of information showing the increasing interest development of protestants to The Rosary of God’s Mother.
“Protestants are now coming to recognise the value of the Rosary by a number of favourable writings,the formation of Rosary circles in Anglican churches and the active propagation of the Rosary by the Anglican Shrine of Our Lady of Walsingham.” (England)
“A German Lutheran minister,Richard Baumann,stated in the early 1970’s:”In saying the Rosary,truth sinks into the subconscious like a slow and heavy downpour.The hammered sentences of the Gospel receive an indelible validity for precisely the little ones, the least,to whom belongs the Kingdom of Heaven….The Rosary is a long and persevering gaze, a meditation, a quieting of the spirit in praise of God, the value of which we Protestants are learning more and more.”
A Methodist minister,J.Neville Ward, praises the Rosary “as a strong support to prayer and meditation in his book-Five for Sorrow,Ten for Joy- and admits that Protestants lost much in their neglect of this prayer”.See McGinnity,Celebrating with Mary,page 30.
do u have sample of JESUS’ blood
As Preethi said: “Of course there can only be one truth.” With this I agree!But if I believe that I have found the truth then as a Christian I am duty bound to express it.For we are all called to be apostles or disciples of Jesus. In fact I would like to be able to share with all mankind, of religion and no religion. And that is what I have been doing since I made my first contribution to this site.
May I add that I was born and reared as a Catholic but ever since I could remember I have pursued knowledge in order to understand ultimate reality.And that process in time led me to abandon for years the faith of my childhood and early teens and travel the dead roads of atheism and agnoticism.Of course I was aware that parents and friends were praying for me and in due course the grace of Christ brought me back to His Church and the faith of the Apostles.
And I sincerely believe that Mary played an important role.Sadly, however, many christians knowledge of God’s mother’s role in their redeemption is minimal and obviously prejudices and misinterprations lies at the basis of their beliefs and of course evil spirits can easily influence.Inspite of the fact that Mary is the ‘second Eve’.The first Eve as we know was born without sin but with her husband Adam the seed of sin was planted and it has come down the ages through our race.The latter warranted the preservation of a Jewish virgin from the sin of our first parents so as to overcome the plague of sin.For in no way could a sinful female give birth to the Son of God who was sinless and who would carry as a man the genes of his mother.Praise be the Blessed Trinity through the immaculate heart of the Word’s Mother.
As for interpretation of the bible, there are a few principles to it. Crystal clear principles found in the scripture is used to explained the unclear or not so important (minor) principles. By which other cross reference can we prove validity of Mary’s sinlessness?
Often, mislead interpreter take the verse out of its context to explain other things. For example, a verse from a parable is not meant to explain everything in the Bible but only for the purpose of illustration to the respective parable.
As a matter of fact, man made or added teachings started early just shortly after the early church has established and not after the existent of reformer or protestant. So who should we trust?
I know and believe in my heart that what I have is real – God has proved himself to me many times.
I honor Mary as the mother of Jesus but I do not worship her nor do I talk to her because she is dead and I have asked repeatedly for scripture but so far there is none. I pray to God in Jesus name as He told us to do and He is very much alive.
Perhaps it’s you who need to know the truth and there are people here trying to enlighten you. It’s not by power nor by might but by my spirit sayeth the Lord.
I challenge you – to pray to God in Jesus name and see what happens not to mary she cannot talk to Jesus – that’s a lie.
What bible do you read? I’ve heard the catholic church wrote their own. If I may suggest get a KJV Bible (not one of the different versions that man has rewritten) and read it for yourself – you just might find out the truth.
One more thing where did you come up with that mary is the “second eve”? That is not in the bible either!
Mary was a virgin which is verified in scripture but she was in sinful flesh – had natural parents the same as you and me so she was born in sin.
Dear Liam,
My testimonial is similar to yours, as I had gradually become an atheist for about two years. Remembrance of those days of living without Jesus is terrible. And brings me down to my knees when I praise Him for all the grace I experience now.
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html
Above link is for Jai ( 569)
I detect a sense of anger- one of the 7 deadly sins.Of course great is the truth and it can hurt.I will not judge you but I will pray for you for I love you.After all you are my sister in Christ.
Evangelist, faith canbe a strange reality especially when we consider Luther adding his own opinion to parts of scripture.Thus as a result many believe that the Holy Spirit wrote through a disciple (Paul)and that what he wrote was wrong and that Martin Luther was right.Imagine, the ultimate author of the scriptures God himself was wrong!
I do not worship Mary but I love her dearly for she is the mother of God.Think of it- THE MOTHER OF GOD! The continuing lies by those who oppose the Catholic Church that we worship the virgin will always be there for the father of lies the devil is still very active.
As for the Bible it came out of the Jewish people and the converts that Jesus made,in fact you would not have your limited version of the holy book except for the Catholic Church for it existed for hundreds of years before the arrival of the edited versions by the so called reformers.
As for God’s and our beloved Mother where does it say in the Bible that she was sinful?
There is much that I agree with in your contributions.But I have to adhere to the word of Jesus when he established the Catholic Church and the giving of the keys of heaven to it and other guarantees.Its there in the Bible.
Outside of Catholicism why are there so many churches claiming to be the source of biblical truth? Why is there not just one? Surely this is contrary to biblical truth about “I will build my church”.
As for the question and role of God’s mother even the reformation leaders appear to be more Christian than some of the contributions made here.For example Luther in a sermon said”This is the consolation and overflowing goodness of God,that man,insofar as he believes,can glory in the precious fact that Mary is his true mother,Christ is his brother and God his Father….If you believe this,then you really sit in the Virgin’s lap as her dear child”
Even Zwingli in 1524 called Mary “the pure virgin Mary,mother of our salvation,” and he stated that where she is concerned,he never “thought,let alone taught or publicaly affirmed the slightest thing that could be impious, dishonouring, unworthy or bad of her”
How then could we believers reach the point as illustrated in this debate of people belittling Mary and continue to attack Catholics because of their love for the mother of God.
February 10, 1988
Vassula, hear Me and write;
Yes, Lord.
I am the Word, the Alpha and the Omega; I am the Elixir of Life, the Source of Love, and from Me comes all into being; I have descended on earth in flesh to redeem you; daughter, there is in My Church so much confusion about My Words given from My Cross to John and My Mother; let Me remind you all above everything else how I, the Lord, have crowned My Mother as Queen of Heaven;
Lord,
yes, Vassula?
You have come introducing Yourself as God, then said Your Holy Mother twice. You have, Lord, just declared that St. Mary is Your Mother, therefore confirming the title of: ‘Mother of God’. You have said it, Lord! A title rejected by Protestants.
how I rejoice daughter, I have not been teaching you in vain; I am pleased that you have understood My Works; endeavour to keep up your learning; pray for this attainment; I will give you the perception if you ask for it; Vassula, hear Me again, I want My Words to be known; I, who am God, grew in My Mother’s Womb; She nourished your God, creation! I fed from Her; I, who am the Word, love Her and honour Her; Vassula, in the very beginning I had given you an account of MyCrucifixion;1 remember when I said, “My gaze fell on My Mother, I looked upon Her and Our Hearts spoke: I am giving you My beloved children to be Your children too, You are to be their Mother,â€
Yes, Lord, but our brothers the Protestants say that what You uttered from the Cross was meant literally to John. Your Mother becoming a ‘widow’, being taken care of by John when You were not around. They also say that St. Mary is not ‘God’s Mother’.
yet, My Vassula, Scripture never lies; Scripture says those words, “Mother of my Lordâ€; Elizabeth, who was inspired by the Holy Spirit, spoke these words; write: “Of all women You are the most Blessed, and Blessed is the Fruit of Your Womb; why should I be honoured with a visit from the Mother of My Lord?†the words I have said from My Cross are much deeper than many of you seem to understand; honour My Mother, who is your Holy Mother too;
Lord, You said: “and be united to me again…†Have they been with You after their death for sometime?
I have delivered their soul from their body, I have shown them My Holy Face for just an instant, and at that very instant, their eyes, unveiled, facing Me in My Purity and in My Light, immediately saw The Truth face to face and realised how blemished their soul is from sin; and, in spite of their burning desire to fall in My open arms1 and follow Me, they understand that this is impossible before cleaning their soul; so with a piercing pain of sorrow, they fall back and prepare themselves to be purified; this hurts and burns them beyond words, because they cannot see Me, My absence is burning them, and the cause of their greatest suffering in purgatory is My Absence; they also undergo other sorts of sufferings, with fire, depending their sins; prepare your soul, creation, in advance, do not wait for death to
overshadow you; keep your soul clean and without blemish; feed yourselves with My Body, and drink My Blood as often as you can; repent often, be prepared for this day; be on fast, fasting helps you;
listen to My Voice and prepare your soul as if our meeting would be for this very day; do not wait, waiting is sleeping, waiting is to leave your lanterns without oil; be prepared to meet your Saviour;
Oh Lord! Some will be persecuted like all other times!
I know, My child; some will be persecuted by those whose hearts are still closed and reason with their minds and not with their hearts; but by My Grace, I shall draw many of these too in My Sacred Heart; little flowers, courage, I am beside you and My Eyes are upon you, so do not fear; it is My desire to have My Message of Peace and Love diffused from North to South and from East to West, so have faith in Me; I have been preparing It in secret for your Era;
I ask in My Message that My Churches unite, for as the Father and I are One, My Church must also be One, all united and into one Fold; I have chosen Peter to be your guardian and guard you in the Truth until My Return, but men have disobeyed Me, they have split, declaring their own rules; I am telling you truly, do not listen to those who oppose Peter, Peter of-My-Lambs, who is John Paul II now … for he is My chosen one and the beloved of My Soul; do not listen to those who condemn him, they have been led astray; beloved ones, when you have recently split, part of Me was torn off; yes, they did not realise that they have torn a part off My Body; oh My beloved ones … do I deserve this? … why tear My Heart? … why tear on your God’s Heart? … why fill My Eyes with more Tears of Blood?2… I beg you, just like a beggar, who has been lamed by his own friends, to return, all of you, to Peter and be one, like the Father and I who are One; I am also calling all those who reject My Mother, to open their ears and hear, My Mother is the Queen of Heaven; She is by Name, Mother of God;
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
All means ALL it does not exclude Mary
I Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, [8] leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
ONLY Jesus has this claim – who did NO sin
He (Jesus) then goes on to tell Peter that based on this revelation (Rock/Truth), He (Jesus) would build his Church – against which even the gates of Hades would not be able to prevail. It is Jesus who established the Church not Peter! At that time Peter had no faith, couldn’t recognize Jesus when He walked on water, lost his faith when Jesus asked him to come to Him on the water, denied Jesus 3 times, and was a man full of anger & violence (he cut off the ear of a man in the Garden of Gethsemane). He was far from being any sort of “rock” for the Church of Jesus Christ!
It is most unfortunate that people read the Holy Bible in “black & white”, in an earthly temporal manner, and they completely miss the Revelation that comes from the Lord Jesus, when reading His Word in the Spirit.
There is no mention of “Roman Catholics” in the Holy Bible. There is no mention of any pope in the Holy Bible. The term Catholic is derived from a Greek word that means “Universal”. The early followers of Jesus Christ were known as “Believers”. Thats all. No Religion – no Roman Catholics – no Pope.
It is because of the declining Roman empire – their kings (Constantine, if I am not mistaken) – who decided to hijack the Church of Believers, in order to maintain the false supremacy of their fading glory. After all, Rome was always the centre of the world, but was fading away – and here were the Believers – full of love, joy and hope. As a result of this “hijack” the term “Roman Catholics” came into existence. The merging of the Church of Believers with the ruling King of Rome resulted in the “birth” of a “religion” called “Roman Catholics” – Universal Romans Forever.
John 3:16-17 says “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him”. Therefore, every single human being should understand the Word of God clearly.
The only Religion that the Word of God speaks about is in James 1:27 – “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”
That is Religion by the Holy Bible. Not Roman Catholics or any other denomination or any other so called Religion. Jesus never propagated any division or denomination amongst His Believers – so who are we mortals to create such divisions & denominations?
Those who live as false prophets, false “leaders”, and deceivers shall meet their end as stated by the Lord in His Word.
Take note, it is completely counterproductive to send Jesus to restore the broken relationship between man and God, just to place another man between once again. Just like when the Israelites called out for a King and it grieved God. He is the same yesterday today and forever. He has not changed. And, so since the beginning he has just wanted a direct communion with man. Before, it was in the cool of the day (morning and night) Now it is all day everyday through His Holy Spirit living in a believer’s heart.
The Book of timothy says that there is only one mediator between man and God and that is the man Jesus the Christ, who is God. So this means Peter was not the first Pope. There is no need for a mediator between man and God. Placing one in between is a counter action to the very thing Jesus was trying to do. Just because you claim something, doesn’t make it true. The claim of Peter as the first pope is ridiculous. There were several churches established in that time period. But The church which is simply the entire body of born again believers. It could be said to have been established with Peter’s preaching and the conversion of so many saints that day. However, there were 10 other disciples who were believers already and many more such as Jesus family and friends and so many others. Truly The Church was already established. Peter was continuing Jesus work. I submit to you that true Church of Jesus Christ was established the second the Holy Spirit came to live in all of those believers who were waiting for His promise. This did not take place in Rome and Peter did not go there and build it.
Rome was one of many churches being established all over the world. Churches such as Philipi and Thesolonia, Ephisia, Laodycia, on and on. Rome had the most pagan problems as far as integration of the religious nature of that paganism and the Gospel. Unfortunately it was the idea of the leaders of the beginnings of the Catholic Church to incorporate these pagan rituals and celebrations into Christianity. This has never worked. You mix evil with good and you never get righteousness. You still have evil only.
Many point to Saint Linus as the “second” Pope. The word Catholic is first used around 110 (authenticity is debated) in a historical letter from Ignatius of Antioch. It is then used again much later. Somehow it is forgotten that all these other Churches exist. Paul is writing them… ministering. Working the Great Commission. We don’t even read much more of Peter and his work in Judea. One thing is for sure He was not in Rome and unfortunately the Roman Church needed much guidance and obviously did not get it so as the scriptures were twisted and convoluted to keep peace with the pagans…. the result was Catholicism and once again a disconnection of the direct link between man and God.
However, the other churches were growing and getting the proper direction. During the crusades the Christians were being killed along side the Muslim and Jews.
So remember even with reformation and Martin Luther and the protestants, there was an entire world of Christians already who were not Catholic. Perhaps given the same time as Catholicism has had, Mormonism will posses the same status and reverence. They are similar in many ways.
Never believe man, never believe a church. Only believe The Holy Spirit living in you and what the Word of God says. For as a believer, one is the body of Christ, and according to 1 Corinthians one IS given the mind of Christ. Therefore there is absolutely no need for anyone else in between. Only fellowship with those more mature in the faith to give council and reproof.
It depends on the point of view of the source you are consulting. If you examine the proponents for the Church you will find the following:
The Catholic Church considers itself the true and original Christian Church, the word “Catholic” being but an adjective. Early in Church history many sects broke off claiming to be Christian, but they were usually small cults based around a charismatic heretic and localized to a particular area. To distinguish Itself from these the Christian Church choose one of the four marks of the Church that none of these sects could simulate, Its catholicity (the fact that the Christian Church could be found everywhere) by which to identify Itself.
Christianity points to the Last Supper for its inception. Christ inaugurated the New Law by fulfilling the symbolic ceremonies and sacrifices of the Pasch and instituting in their place the sacrifice of the New Law, the Holy Mass. As well, he appointed His disciples as the new ordained priesthood over the hereditary ministers of the Old Law. He also set up Himself up as the new high priest, with St. Peter to represent Him on earth in that capacity when He would ascend. Christ built an entire institution with hierarchy, ceremonies and doctrine. However, it was merely in place and not effective. When Christ died upon the cross, the foundation for the New Law which He had laid became effective by virtue of His blood and the redemption He effected. Upon His resurrection, He activated Peter’s primacy as well as giving the Church its mission to go and preach to all nations. Christianity/Catholicism was born then, 37AD, the date Christ died (the exact date of Christ’s death is disputed, but 37AD is often referenced).
There is the position that Catholicism was a highly regulated form of Christianity which departed from Christ’s beginnings. In 325, the First Council of Nicaea met and hammered out many of the irregularities in Christianity, forming a canon of doctrine and disciplines that were then imposed upon the Christian faithful. Some people insist that this council was when Catholicism, if not Christianity, was invented and the actual teachings of Christ were not preserved in their integrity. This view is difficult to defend since all that authoritatively existed was Oral Tradition handed down since the New Testament, though written, had not yet been assembled nor was the canon of inspired scripture determined from the many books in circulation. The main accomplishment of Nicaea was the condemnation of Arianism , a widespread movement that taught, among other things, that the Son was not equal to the Father. This condemnation could not have been made unless there was a body empowered and recognized to make and diffuse such a proclamation throughout the Christian religion. The council also accomplished the formulation of the Nieces Creed.
Some point to 313AD when the Roman Emperor Constantine attributed his military victory over the eastern empire to the intercession of the Christian God. However, Constantine merely legalized Christianity and did not found anything, much less a religion, as can be noted by the fact that the Catholic institutional hierarchy was already in place along with sacraments and doctrines.
Things might better be put in perspective by quoting St. Vincent Lerins, a 5th century monk and Father of the Church, who wrote in 434AD concerning the early Christian Church:
“Therefore, because of the intricacies of error, which is so multiform, there is great need for the laying down of a rule for the exposition of Prophets and Apostles in accordance with the standard of the interpretation of the Catholic Church.
Now, in the Catholic Church itself we take the greatest care to hold that which has been believed everywhere, always and by all. That is truly and properly ‘Catholic,’ as is shown by the very force and meaning of the word, which comprehends everything almost universally. We shall hold to this rule if we follow universality, antiquity, and consent. We shall follow universality if we acknowledge that one Faith to be true which the whole Church throughout the world confesses; antiquity if we in no wise depart from those interpretations which it is clear that our ancestors and fathers proclaimed; consent, if in antiquity itself, we keep following the definitions and opinions of all, or certainly nearly all, Bishops and Doctors alike.” The Vincentian Canon, in Commonitorium, chap IV, 434
Church history is rather complex, but an understanding of the basics is very worthwhile. The following is a simple chronology of church history adapted from Bruce Shelley’s Church History in Plain Language:
(30-70 AD) The Time of Jesus and the Apostles
The death and resurrection of Christ.
The Christian faith is birthed and the gospel of grace is preached.
(30-70 AD) The Time of Jesus and the Apostles
The death and resurrection of Christ.
The Christian faith is birthed and the gospel of grace is preached.
(70-312) The Age of Catholic Christianity
The spread of the Christian faith; martyrdom of the early believers.
Early heresies sprouted; first church councils and the canonizing of scripture.
(312-590) The Age of the Christian Empire
Constantine declares Christianity the official religion of the Roman empire; Age of great councils.
Christianity became a faith for the masses; start of Monasticism.
(590-1517) The Middle Ages
The fall of Rome and the Byzantine empire.
Benedictine monks deployed as missionaries; the pope becomes the “ruler” of the church.
The crusades: The church gains the world but loses its soul.
(1517-1648) The Age of Reformation
Martin Luther and the protestant movement.
The start of denominationalism – Examples: Lutheran, Reformed, Anabaptist and Anglican.
The papacy loses its power and influence.
(1648-1789) The Age of Reason and Revival
Secularism — The mind becomes god; people begin to ask, “Who needs God?”
Revivals such as Pietism, Methodism and the Great Awakening seek to restore God to public life.
(1789-1914) The Age of Progress
The message of Christ is carried to distant lands, but the faith continues to leave public life.
Pluralistic and totalitarian societies see no relevance for Christianity.
(1912-current) The Age of Ideologies…
By seeing your comment #562..am sad to tell that your wisdom and understanding towards His Word is ZERO.
I dont think you are in right track..if you have belief like ‘all answers are not found in Bible’,’truth is limited in Bible’..then i can boldly say to your face “U WILL NOT MAKE IT”..
I read your testimony..am happy to see my brother getting in the God’s family..but what happened now George? are you in fire for the Lord?
I know people Preethi, Evangelist, liam o comain, Cheryl, Kris in this forum…who have faith in Scriprture and love to follow Jesus in all possible way…But you not even have basic faith in Scripture..sad to tell this.
Look, God clearly tells us,
“The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.”Deu29:29
Above scripture tell us..What God revealed to us in Bible is sufficient for our edification,our faith,our strength,our righteousness toward our God..and the secret things belongs to the Lord..its none of your business to peep into things what God not revealed to us..
For comment #562
I told you before
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness”2Tim3:16
You said “those people decided to stop adding books has the present size itself is very big”..do u had any dreams last night before you write this comment?
Though the people who wrote the Bible are sinned as we are…The word what they wrote are purified seven times as silver by fire of Holy Spirit…Dont you see that in
“The words of the LORD are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times.”Psalm12:6
What God gave in Bible is enough for our edification…that what John the Apostle said lastly..dont follow your own interpretation..
Spend some time to listen to His voice..you will know more.
God be with you.
First of all thank you for your comments! i think this will help me to get even closer to God, but i don’t think you have understood my point. What i meant to say is Bible on its own is not whole, it is God who is whole. And if you can’t believe my statement go a head and read the history of how Bible has you see it now came into existence. God has revealed His plan not only in the Bible but also by other means, Thats where Mary and other Saints come in. Respect them, Respect God’s chosen ones.
And to be frank ” am very sure that I CAN MAKE IT”.
In my atheistic days I would be of the opinion that if God existed his followers attitude today towards Mary would be without love.In fact those of the protestant tradition and there are exceptions would not convert me to Christian belief.For God is Love and their actions could not be defined as loving.
Do you really believe that a sinless being would allow his son to be born to a sinful woman.Of course you quote the Bible but ignore tradition.And there are those who define aspects of scripture to suit their own mentalities.The fact is as St.John confirms everything relating to Jesus are not all in Scripture.That is where the goodness of ‘tradition’ comes in.
In 397 AD the Catholic Church led by the Pope of the time decided what books would be in the Bible and every book in the Protestant New Testament was put there by Pope Siricus and the Catholic Bishops.Of course they were added to by protestant leaders like Luther inspite of the authority of the Holy Spirit.
The Catholic Church of Christ is not a ‘learning’ church it is a ‘teaching’ church.
Moreover,it is evident that Christ’s true church is an infallible teacher,never liable to teach false doctrines-“All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations;baptizing them in the name of the Father,and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.Teaching them to observe all things whatsover I have commanded you:and behold I am with you all days,even to the consummation of the world.”(Matt.28:18-20).”As the Father hath sent me,I also send you.”(John20:21).Here again is a clear, unmistakable reference to the teaching mission of His Church;for here He is telling the Apostles that they had fallen heir to His own teaching mission.His Church was to be no less of a teacher than he was.
Here is other evidence that the Catholic Church is an infallible teacher,never liable to teach false doctrine:”These things have I spoken to you,abiding with you.But the Paraclete,the Holy Ghost,whom the father will send in my name,he will teach you all things,and bring all things to your mind,whatsover I shall have said to you….when the Paraclete cometh,whom I will send to you from the Father,the Spirit of truth,who proceedeth from the Father,he shall give testimony of me.And you shall give testimony,because you are with me from the beginning.”(John14:25-26;15:26-27).
Please read and carefully reflect upon for the truth extends beyond the written word-it is not limited to the written word.In fact the written word of the New Testament was sanctioned by the Catholic Church built upon Peter.
To those who reject this truth and who have different forms of the written word may I ask why are you not one church?Methodism,Anglicanism,etc! Christ established one church as scripture confirms.Is it because your founders limited Christianity to the New Testament alone while ignoring the words of Jesus as quoted above?
May God bless you all!
This will be my last post as God has other fish who are willing to learn the truth of His word.
There is an old saying – “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink”.
I’ve tried to help you the best I know, but it’s time to move forward. I pray that you will find peace in Jesus before it’s too late!!
With Love in Christ,
Evangelist
As there were heretics about at the beginning of Christianity there are still others today as there was throughout the centuries.Perhaps unaware of the wiles of the devil in his constant attacks against the Catholic Church and his use of heresy to attempt to destroy it.Ironicly many of the followers of heresy or influenced by it sincerely love Jesus and what he has done for humanity. But I believe been led astray.
Please be open minded and continue to follow Jesus but at ‘the moment of truth’,that is, when we depart through death I have no doubt that Mary will be there along with Jesus to welcome us.For not only is Mary the Mother of God but she is our mother also as well as being the Queen of life everlasting.
All those ‘churches’ that you refer to, the years after the death and resurrection of Jesus, is part of the Catholic Church.And the so called evidence that you provide is riddled with historical inaccuracies if you would only take time and consider the bias of the resources that you use.Pray for God’s guidance!
You also deny that Peter (Cephas which means rock)was not the base of Christ’s Church.Whom was Jesus referring to when he said ‘I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven…’?
George:
Dear brother you can scatter some people from Christ by your vain imagination..but not ME.
Instead of wasting time in doing research about Bible…you can spend some time in prayer and ask Jesus to show the path..He will guide you man..Spend time with your lover(JESUS).
To ALL,
There are people like my brother George already present in world who inserts confusions,wrong and demonic belief to the God’s people to lead ASTRAY..AVOID THEM!
BEWARE,
“I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught;avoid them”Rom16:17
“See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ”Col2:8
If anyone wants to know the truth…let He/She ask the Lord of Lords,our redeemer Jesus Christ…and He will reveal all secrets to you which are hidden from eyes of vain people.
I finally urge my beloved brothers and sisters,to stand firm in the Lord and not to turn right or to left..
Dear george,
Be a warrior,supporter,intercessor for the Jesus.I like to see you in that way..and not a man to talk about things which are not revealed to us by God.
God be with you.
I am not belittling Mary. However, neither should Mary be lifted to a position where she shouldn’t be.
Matthew 12:50 “For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” Mary is co-heirs with God and also co-heirs with Christ.
Mary was indeed blessed among women for she was chosen to be a channel where God became flesh. However, Mary is only the earthly mother of Jesus not Mother of God. The title “Mother of God” suggest God is born by a Mother(spiritually?) which i strongly believe is not right because Jesus, The Son of God, who is sinless is born with the power of the Holy Spirit and not because the requirement or condition that Mary had to be sinless. It is the power of Holy Spirit that enable Jesus to be born into this world and any other extra “requirement” added is most likely based on human understanding and non-biblical.
Also, personally i believe praying to Mary definitely takes away my 1st place for Jesus.
Revelation 22:8-9 says this(I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!â€)
Likewise, if we are not careful we might also be like John uplifting a angel to a position where the angel is not supposed to be. Therefore, Mary is a fellow servant of Christ with us, not less than that and not more.
Colossians 2:18 says (Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.)
Luke 1:38 says (“I am the Lord’s servant,†Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.†Then the angel left her.)
Luke 8:21 says (He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.”)
John 19:26-27 says (When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, “Woman, here is your son,†and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.†From that time on, this disciple took her into his home. )
John 20:16-17 says (Jesus said to her, “Mary.†She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!†(which means “Teacherâ€). Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’†)
Rom 16:17-I agree but sadly over the centuries that request was denied. In fact the denial has led to a world-wide splintered christian community.How sad.
Also may I add the contents of the ‘Bible’ was revealed to humanity by God just as the contents of ‘tradition’ was revealed by God to his Church.I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven and what you shall loose on earth shall also be loosed in heaven and what you shall bind on earth shall also be bound in heaven.Thus implying that the grace of the Holy Spirit would be active as life continues.An activity that did not end upon the conclusion of the writing of the New Testament by his initial converts.A reality confirming the equal importance of Church ‘tradition’.To ignore ‘tradition’is to have a part of the whole truth only.
There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God. 1 Sam 2:2…
There is no one righteous, not even one Rom 3:10…
Bible says that no one is Holy other than the GOD of Israel, other than GOD of Abraham, other than the GOD the Holy Father…
If any one says that this person is holy….then that person is diong blasphemy, sadly our brothers and sisters in CHrist are trying to do it…
Bible refered Mary as Highly Favored Lady….not a holy lady…. angles know the truth….
sadly we are not able to know it…that this blasphemy….
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.1 John 1:8….
no where in whole Bible it is written that Mary is Holy….
And they were calling to one another: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory. Isaiah 6:3 …
They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea ..Isaiah 11:9
See if i have apple seed and i plant it in land what tree will i have….- apple tree
if i have mango tree and i plant it in land what tree will i have ….- mango tree
it we take WORD OF GOD or HOLY SPIRIT as a seed and plant it in land what tree will i have…- WORD OF GOD or HOLY SPIRIT tree…-
by planting apple or mango or HOLY SPIRIT….- that land does not become apple tree or that land does not become mango tree or that does become Holy…..
Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the praise of Israel. Psalm 22:3…
Friends/Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
There are those of the Christian faith who fail to grasp the uniqueness of Mary but I pray that they will in due time.Even to that standing or level of God’s children in the Islamic faith.Or the special regard for God’s Mother held by believers such as Martin Luther.
And may the Holy Spirit help us to be careful in our interpretations of Holy Scripture for the rational aspect of our being can lead us astray and has been used by satan in his war against the Catholic Church.
By this shall all men know that you are my disciples that you have love for one another.Please pray for church unity.
Jai,
Surely Mary that scripture confirms was all blessed,a virgin,but more important the sinless Mother of the Son of God was assumed into Heaven by the power of the Holy Spirit. As I have stated previously she is unique because Mary gave birth to the promised Messiah.Surely God whose is Love would ensure Mary’s assumption because of his love for her.
And was not Enoch ( Hebrews 11-5))taken from this life,so that he did not experience death;he could not be found,because God had taken him away. For before he was taken,he was commended as one who pleased God. But surely the person of his mother Mary would warrant more?
liam o comain: for #590
Can you tell the contents of ‘tradition’ which was revealed by God to his Church?
John,
Here is Father Foley’s opinion on the concept of ‘tradition’.I could not express it any better.
“Tradition is expressed in (and grows from) the Church’s creeds, the records of the Church’s liturgy, the writings of the great teachers, the decrees of popes and councils, the prayer and faith of the people….
Tradition develops in the sense that the Church probes more deeply into the meaning of all that has been handed on. The Holy Spirit guides its growth and explanation. Each age must express the age-old Tradition of the Church in the forms of its day. The essentials remain, the application and form may change.
The Church is a living organism; in each generation, it must respond to God through the language, culture, problems and opportunities of its own day. The Church remembers its experience and listens to the living Word of Jesus in the Bible and is thus led by the Spirit to show Christ to the world.”
Evangelist,(589).
Sorry to see you go.
Wrongly you believe that I lack the peace of Christ,Evangelist,for at this very moment I deeply experience the peace of Christ.In fact he never leaves me for at daily Mass which is the Last Supper I receive Our Lord into my being…
Also, I agree with you that one can lead a horse to water but cannot make he/she drink; for the animal may not need the liquid or it may be contaminated.
God bless you,Evangelist!
Dear Friends of Christ,
St.Paul,referred to a type of letter “written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God,not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts”(2 Cor 3: 2-3).
In this sense Mary is God’s letter to us.A letter for all of us,whether we are learned or not.Tradition embraced this idea and considered Mary ” a waxed tablet” upon which God was able to write what he wished(Origen),or “a wonderful new book”in which the Spirit alone wrote(St.Epiphanius),or”the book in which the Father wrote his Word” (Byzantine Liturgy).
Yes, Mary is not often referred to in the New Testament but what is significant is that she was in attendance at all three of the events that forms the Christian mystery:the incarnation,the paschal mystery,and pentecost.
Thus along with her status as Mother of God I believe that our Mother Mary can say to each one of us what Paul said to his followers in Corinth:”Be imitators of me,as I am of Christ”
(1 Cor 11:1)
Exodus 20 “4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.”
Isaiah 42:8: “I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.”
Romans 1:25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Not one reference in the Bible to intercessory prayer by Mary.
Now, who’s right? God or the Catholic Church? Sola Scriptura or man’s tradition?
It would appear that you see and read merely words but cannot grasp the truth within.I suppose this arises from a superficial grasp of what is written and the fact that the latter is not the only source of truth.
In relation to ‘faith and morals’ the Catholic Church cannot be wrong for it is tradition initiated by Jesus himself who sent the Holy Spirit to be always with it and to ensure that what it expressed was the truth and only the truth.
You quote St.Paul but may I ask you was he also committing ‘idolatry’ when he requested his followers to imitate him?
To all those who say Mary is dead, if a person dies where do they go? If everyone who dies remain dead, how come Abraham was seen with Lazarus and Jesus was seen with Moses and Elijah? Your teachings or whatever you call them are dangerous because if you say that to people who want to be converted they will tell you whats the point.If Abraham and Elijah can go to heaven how come the one who carried the Saviour can be allowed to justt die. Read Revelations 12 again and re-read it and understand it!!If you respect Jesus , do and God respect Mary who was favoured by both of them, if we Catholics choose to go overboard about it thats our way You do your thing and respect God and we will do raise God’s name. Amen!
Friends,
Some of the earlier made references to the Christian Mass from persons who allegedly are christians boggles the mind so to speak.
At Mass we receive the Body of Christ in order to become together more fully the Body of Christ that we are by Baptism.
At Mass or in other words the Eucharist or the Last Supper the bread and wine by the power of the Holy Spirit via the Priest becomes the Body and the Blood of Christ so that the christian community becomes most truly what we are already the Body of Christ.