Why should we pray to Virgin Mary? The reasons are many.
Why do Catholics pray to Mother Mary? Is Rosary really powerful?
The intercession of Mother Mary is very powerful as Jesus cannot neglect His mothers commands.This can be proved by the first miracle Jesus did at the wedding at Cana. – (John 2:1-11). Mother Mary told Jesus “They have no more wine.” And what was the final result? He turned water into wine.
In “The Poem of the Man-God” by Maria Valtorta, she says that Jesus told her about this incident as “I did it for Mary”. This proves that the intercession of Mother Mary is very very strong.
Mother Mary was blessed with Holy Spirit abundantly. We can see this as we read “At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” (Luke 1:39-41) ; just by Virgin Mary’s greeting.
Listen to the talk from Apologetics on Mary, Purgatory and The Bible
What the angels thought on this matter:-
When angel appeared before Zechariah,father of John, angel just greets him by his name ,nothing more although he was “upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commandments and regulations blamelessly.” – (Luke 1:6)
When angel appeared before Joseph, the greeting was like this: “an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” – (Matthew 1:20). Angel greeted him ‘son of david’, thats all.
Now let us see how did the angel greet Virgin Mary. It goes like this: “The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” (Luke 1:28). See the difference….
Also read the article Mary, The Mystical Rose
I agree with you that believing in Jesus we are saved. Even believing without the existence of The Bible or the New Testament in particular.But you are overlooking the fact that what you referred too is not in opposition to your belief. In fact much of what you oppose is based upon The Bible and thousands of years of tradition based culture.For example you oppose Water Baptism but The Bible clearly states that Jesus himself was baptised by John-The Baptist in the River Jordan.
You make reference to The Mass which is based upon the words of Jesus at the Last Supper. You have belief in Jesus but apparently you are denying what he taught and left us for our salvation. Remember his words ‘unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of man you shall not have life in you’. Also, via those at the Last Supper, Jesus told those who believe in him that we repeat what he done in memory of him.
Most of those who have newly become christian, don’t have deeper understanding of christianity. Only such people can have such idea. You know very less about sacraments I guess. I challenge if you really understand the value of sacraments you would desire to become a catholic. But you are filled with prejudices and ignorance. The Holy Spirit doesn’t speak different to you and me. Pray to the Holy Spirit with open mind and sincerity. Otherwise go on having your own idea, who cares.
Water Baptism –>
Is to testify what has happened in you after receving Christ(salvation). You are Testifying that you are now dead to the world, and buried down to this world, and resurrected into this world as a new soul(bearing christ). It is a new covenant(personal and individual) you are making with God for the rest of your life. (Remember Abrahamic covenant(circumcision, which is only with Abraham and his descendants) gets overridden with this new covenant for all) This new covenant receives you into the family of christ(church) and god will honor this covenant for the rest of your life on this earth.
Table (Not Mass) –>
Is the Alter where beleivers(who already experienced salvation) will approach and take part to judge themselves, of their in-equities/sins and turn back from them. And this we do as a Church.God has provided this fountain(Christ) to us as a church to cleanse ourselves. So when a beleiver commits sin, he has the opportunity in christ to again set right with god.(AT this alter in front of the church congregation). So we have to take part in this, after we have judged and repented for our sins, other wise if you take part in it un-worthily, you will be judged for the crucifixion of Christ himself.
(Remember the old testament sacrifices….The laws of sacrifices and offerings specify the manner in which Jesus Christ had to fulfill the requirements of God’s spiritual law (Matt 5:17), to be accepted by God and to take away our sins and redeem, justify and make us acceptable before God (Rom 3:24-25: Heb 2:10; I Pet 2:5). Jesus Christ fulfilled the law (Matt 5:17; Lk 24:27) in perfect obedience as an example for us (I Pet 2:21), and then offered His own blood for our sins (Heb 9:12,28; 10:10-14), condemning sin in the flesh (Rom 8:3), for “without shedding of blood is no remission of sins” (Heb 9:22, 26).)
So this is nothing but, by taking part in the Table, we are applying the blood and flesh of Christ to our lives, so that God , when he looks at us we are righteous in his sight.(not because of us, but by the blood of christ.)
These 2 commandments are decreed by christ, and you might have understood the reasons why.
Not adhering to these commandments, doesn’t nullify the Gods covenant (salavtion) , but will open the doors of sin(As Satan will not be sitting Quiet away from those who have accepted christ.) Remember the Thief on the cross was not denied heaven, for not taking part in Baptism and Table. By faith he was saved. But he had no opportunity to get into sin after his acceptance and repentance. But our case is different, if we are still in sin at the time of death, we are still condemned to Hell, inspite of our promise. (They have fallen from threir faith. And did not retun back.)
My sincere beleif is , if any one has accepted Christ sincerely, repentng of their sins, God will surely remember them and try to protect them in this world till he receives them into heaven. And Belevers part is to keep listening attentively to the warnings , he will be sending through various means.
May be its a wake up call for you and many more here my friends. Try to hear his voice.
God bless you.
so Vijay this is your own theology or it’s a concept of one of today’s 38000+ churches? there is another post on Sacraments in this blog. we can go there and discuss. let’s not interfere those who are talking about Mary.
Many members of the so called reform churches are happy to attack ‘The Mass’by calling it heretical, etc. I have experienced it myself. But perhaps they canbe excused because of ‘ignorance’ which Satan uses as a part of his weaponry againg the Church of Christ.
The Mass is the celebration of the Lord’s Supper or in other letters The Eucharist.In the presence of The Eucharist- our Sacred Host- we have the bread that sustains and feeds us(cf.John 6:35)In The Mass adoration comes first in fact adoration becomes union.Here we find ourselves in the “hour”of Jesus,to use the language of John’s Gospel.At Mass the hour of Jesus becomes our hour, his presence in our midst.
Jesus says, after following the rites of Israel,over the bread the prayer of praise and blessing:”This is my Body,given in sacrifice for you. This cup is the New Covenant in my Blood”.He then distributes the bread and the cup,and instructs those in attendance to repeat his words and actions of that moment over and over again in ‘his’memory.In fact ‘The Mass’ is the ‘Last Supper’and in accord with his request his words and actions are repeated by The Church which he established thousands of years ago.
Guys,
I’m bowing out for now. Blessings.
Ntoppo,
I dont think you really beleive Holy Spirit speaks to us when we meditate on word of God , prayerfully. Any way its my interpretation of Baptism and Table, and how god has revealed it to me.
Most of your interpretation comes from your traditions/dogmas, no reason why Satan attacked that Central repository and has mis-led so many who blindly follow the Cathechism, and accept their interpretations.
Any way sorry that i diverted the conversation.
Liam,
I do not want to start another thread on Un-biblical Dogmas followed by Catholics. The Summation is that the interpretatons given by the catholic church are un-biblical and pagan based which has polluted and corrupted the original scriptures. (Best example is compare the 10 commandments from Vatican web site with authentic versions of Bible such as KJV).
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm
Those who do not have light in their hearts try to follow what ever light is being shown to them by others.
Safest postion is to meditate the scripture and ask God for his revelation.
God Bless.
Hello to all…
I want to know from strong catholic sisters and brothers only ,
Please tell me who properly know about catholic belifes and early church history
Why i’m asking these are i want to clearly know the catholic belifes…
1.How do catholics get salvation experience?By listening the gospel or from the childhood it would be taught from the church or parents?
2.How do preach gospel to who don’t have salvation?(non-christians or unbelievers)
3.How Jesus Christ become our personal saviour?
4.Why some Christians burnt alive when they want to translate bible?
5.What is the difference between Catholism and Roman catholism?
I have some more questions if it is i’ll come back again…please answer me.
If I fully understand you are now personally in receipt of God’s revelation!How do you know that it is from God and not satan? Did Jesus personally guarantee you? As he did Peter and his successors throughout the centuries!
For Jesus established the Catholic Church to ensure that the ‘truth’ he spoke would never become contaminated by heretical or satan inspired lies.Our Lord said “Go out to the whole world;proclaim the Good News to all creation”(Mk 16:16)And it was his apostles who put into an accepted order Christ’s teaching and his life story.That is they were writing The Gospels-the New Testament.In other words the early church leaders and since were given the keys of the kingdom of heaven and assured that whatever the church binds on earth would also be bound in heaven;and whatever the church loosed on earth would also be loosed in heaven.(Matt.16:18-19)And God’s truth still exists in Catholicism inspite of the attacks of unbiblical allegations by ego motivated persons who perhaps are unaware of satan’s contribution to their thought patterns.And it exists because of Jesus guarantee that what the church (his church)taught based upon The Bible and sacred tradition would be his and his alone.In other words to point the finger at Catholicism is to condemn Our Lord.Those who do so are (although perhaps unaware of what they are doing arising from satanic intrigue) accusing Jesus of not being true to his word.
Unfortunately Christianity is in disarry with so many ‘churches’ based upon their individual founders personal definitions and interpretations relating to The Bible.
Finally to re-emphasise the latter is based upon ignoring the guarantee of Christ.
1. Hail Mary, full of Grace Luke 1:28
(Hail, full of Grace) The Angel Gabriel greets Mary with very respectful greeting used for royalty. The text doesn’t say “Mary†after Hail but it is implied. Gabriel then proclaims Mary full of Grace (full of God’s own life and love);
2. The Lord is with you Luke 1:28
(The Lord is with you) This is word for word. The Angel Gabriel said that the Lord is with Mary, she is full of his Grace, his own life.
3. Blessed are you among women Luke 1:41
(Blessed are you among women) Elizabeth is filled with the Holy Spirit; she is inspired by the 3rd person of the Blessed Trinity to proclaim that Mary is the most blessed among all women.
4. And blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus Luke 1:42
(and blessed is the fruit of your womb) Elizabeth still inspired by the Holy Spirit proclaims that the fruit of Mary’s womb, the developing Jesus, is blessed. The text doesn’t say “Jesus†after womb, but it is implied, the fruit of her womb is Jesus.
5. Holy Mary, Mother of God Luke 1:43
(And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?) Mary is full of God’s grace; this would make her holy. Mary is the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity. Since Jesus is God this makes her the mother of God. She is the mother of the God-Man Jesus, not the mother of the Trinity.
6. Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death James 5:16
(Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects) St. James tells Christians to pray for one another. All the baptized are members of the body of Christ (1Cor 12:12-14), therefore it is right to pray for other members of the body. James goes on to say that the prayers of the righteous have great power. What human (other then Jesus) is more righteous then the Blessed Mother? Though she is in heaven she still hears the prayers of her children on Earth and intercedes for them.
If any one has repented and received salvation by accepting Christ, ministry of Holy Spirit will start in their life.Greatest mystery in this world is salvation or new born experience.Fruits of spirit(Galatians 5:22-23) will be visibly functioning in their lifes.
(Liam please question yourself whether you are really saved?)
There are also Gifts of Holy Spirit. The longer we spend time in prayer, these gifts start functioning in the beleiver’s lives.(varies from one believer to other)
One of the gifts, is Discernment of Spirits.The recipient of discerning of spirits could miraculously determine the truth being taught by the teacher. We have to try the spirits whether they are of God, because many false prophets are gone out into the world (I Jn.4:1)
Ask Lord Jesus for this gift prayerfully, so as to discern good from evil, right from wrong and false spirits from godly ones.
Prayer is a powerful weapon, to break any kind of bondages. Use it skillfully, by calling upon Jesus alone, and not asking for any other mediation. He is faitfull enough to show up, and reveal the scriptures to you.And you don’t have to depend on third party interpretations.
(For all this you need to be saved first.)
For those who are saved, scripture will come to life and reveal itself to them. For Others scripture is just like any other book (some times Idol).
And when we have this personal relashionship, with Jesus, he talks to us through word of God.
A promise given to some one in the bible, God can use the same promise to speak to us based on our situation and circumstances. (Some times people call this mis-interpretation, as they are taught to read and understand it in a particular sense and way only.)
Hope and wish you will find the right path.
‘When the Advocate comes,whom I shall send you from the Father,the Spirit of truth who issues from the Father,he will be my witness.And you too will be my witnesses,because you have been with me from the outset…’ John 14-16)
Those with Jesus from the outset were his first followers including his chosen 12.One of whom Peter was put in charge of his body – The Church.That Church continued to spread throughout the planet inspite of much suffering.
The Spirit is still with the Church for inspite of Peter’s denial and Judas’s betrayal plus the desertion of many of his followers then and later through the centuries our Lord’s guarantee is forever.Thus we must pray for those who have been misled by others especially so called reformers who acted contrary to the promise of Christ.For how could anyone claim to be Christian and not accept the word of God.Of course we are all weak individuals and our egos can lead us astray and satan at times has a feast based upon our egos and weaknesses.The latter truth is one of the reasons that Our Lord provided his church and an assurance that its leader would have the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.
The Holy Spirit guides the Catholic Church into the fullness of truth…He furnishes and directs her with various gifts…and adorns her with fruits of his grace.He makes the Church grow,perpetually renews her,and leads her to perfect union with her Spouse.
However it is important to realise that inspite of Peter’s denial and the desertion of those who would not accept the offering of himself as the bread of life at the 1st Mass and also those who founded other bodies, consequently, that Jesus suffered and died for all mankind in fact for all of creation.
Personal interpretation of Scripture outside the promise and guarantee of Jesus to His Church is the basis for fragmentation. A reality that our secular increasing world welcomes.
Those of the reform tradition have placed The Mass at the centre of their attack on the Christian Church inspite of the fact that our faith is the faith of the apostles.Through the words of the Priest when he consecrates the bread and wine the latter becomes the Body and Blood of Christ.We call this ‘transubstantiation’.Thus I find it hard to see that those who condemn the intention of Jesus at the Last Supper BY attacking The Mass can be on the ‘right path’.
At the Last Supper Jesus gave to his disciples a solemn command to do what he had done”in memory of me”.Ever since then his Church has blessed and broken bread and blessed and shared the cup of wine,believing of the bread consecrated at Mass that it is as truly ‘My Body’ as was the bread Jesus blessed and broke at the Last Supper,and of the wine consecrated at Mass that it is truly ‘My Blood’as was the wine Our Lord blessed and gave at the Last Supper.
The whole context of what Jesus did and said at the Last Supper was sacrificial.In his thought what was taking place in the Upper Room was directly linked to what he was about to do the following day on the Cross.
The words Jesus used were words of sacrifice.He spoke of His blood as the “blood of the new Covenant”.That was sacrifice language.
Hundreds of years before,when they were wandering through the desert after the Exodus from Egypt,the Jews used to offer sacrifice in the sanctuary which they set up in the desert wherever they encamped and which they called the Tabernacle.Inside the holy place there was a special table on which loaves of bread, ‘memorial bread’ were placed as a ‘memorial’ of the sacrifice which had been offered and which kept the sacrifice in the presence of God.
As a member of the Church built by Jesus on Peter our ‘memorial bread’ keeps the sacrifice of Jesus before God- the Sacrifice of Calvary is made present, re-presented in the Bread and Wine of the Mass.When the Church offers Mass we do not offer a new sacrifice.There is only one, all-sufficient sacrifice,which Jesus offered to His Father and which was consumated on the Cross- the totally free giving of Himself in love.
The most ancient tradition of the Catholic Church saw a direct link between Calvary Sacrifice – The Last Supper- the Eucharistic Sacrifice.The earliest evidence dates back well beyond the writing of The Gospels.It can be found in St.Paul’s 1st Letter to the Corinthians.St. Paul makes it quite clear that he was not inventing a new teaching in that” every time you eat this bread and drink this cup,you are proclaiming his death”.
That is what the Church of Christ since its foundation upon Peter has constantly thought,and practised.Nothing can ever take its place,nothing can ever be added to it,complete and perfect as it was.And the sacrifice offered in The Mass is that same sacrifice.There is nothing else we can plead before the Father.
The Bible reveals it all especially the New Testament which was inspired by the Holy Spirit.A testament written by those who witnessed and believed inspite of the fact that others walked away from him when Jesus stated the truth.
Vijay,when you have time lift the Bible and reflect upon John- 6:50-59 and St Paul- 1 Cor.11:23-26.
As I often ask Mary to pray for me and others I will now ask God’s Mother to pray for you who are seeking the truth.God bless you.
St. Justin who died only 165 years after Calvary wrote:’As by the Word of God,Jesus our Saviour was made Flesh and had both Flesh and Blood for our salvation,so also the food which has been blessed by the word of prayer instituted by Him is both the Flesh and Blood of Jesus Incarnate’.
***
St.Cyril of Jerusalem (315-86 AD) wrote:’Since Christ Himself has said:’This is my body’-who shall dare to doubt that it is his body?
***
The Mass is the Lord’s Supper or Eucharist.It is the Bread of Life for it is Our Lord Jesus.
Everyone,
I just want to say that I am sorry if I offended anyone. I have decided that I need a break from the internet. So this is my official ‘goodbye’ (for awhile). I love you all dearly and look forward to meeting each one of you in heaven. God’s blessing be upon you all.
In Christ,
Cheryl
I cannot argue on your interpretations, as i feel they un-biblical, does’t matter, how you got them, or who has gven you.
Fact is as long as you keep dialing the numbers of Mary and Other Saints, in your prayers, it the Satan and his fallen angels who will be picking up the calls. And He will keep you blinded from the truth, untill you plead for the blood of christ.Till then God will consider you as heathen.Apart from that, you have created God that fits your imagination and requirements, which is again Idolatry.
Satan whenever interpreted the scriptures, a religion or a cult was born.
Few examples are Islam , Mormonism , Jehovah Witness , Catholism and many more. Every one has their own interpretation of Jesus Christ. And people who follow these cults are so blinded that they never look at the truth even when placed in front of them.
“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” – Galatians 6:7
You are still a victim of untruth.Whereas what I offer is the truth inspired by the Holy Spirit.For your eternal salvation please take time to study The Bible the word of God which members of Christ’s Church hears at each Mass.I hear and reflect upon it almost daily.In addition I adore our God and receive him in the Blessed Sacrament for that is the great gift of Himself which Jesus gave us in order to have authentic life.Remember his statement in The Bible!
Of course there are many who want to follow Jesus but inspite of him being a part of The Blessed Trinity they find it hard to believe that anyone even God could perform the miracle of The Mass and give himself to many.Thus many pick and choose from the Sacred Scriptures what satisfies their own thinking.Christian by parts so to speak.Perhaps unaware that they are limiting the power of our creator Father by picking and choosing what suits them.
Vijay great is the truth.Do not oppose it for God is The Truth!You say that you cannot argue on my interpretations for you feel they are unbiblical.But they are not my interpretations- they belong to the Holy Spirit!That is why Our Lord established the Catholic Church to ensure the survival of the truth via the Holy Spirit-‘I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven and what you bind upon earth it will be bound also in heaven…’.For our Saviour knew that ones would come along eventually and mis-interpret the truth based in The Bible.Thus he gave the Holy Spirit to his church to ensure that the truth would prevail.And it does prevail and will continue to prevail because of his Church.That is our guarantee!
Liam,
Please watch this. And re-consider your truth.
Also read comments 70, 72 and 75 where i have provided more evidences why catholism is satanic cult.
A good Catholic/Protestant debate..
Vijay,
My truth is Bible based and guaranteed by Our Saviour.Are you a lone Protestant or what one of the numerious Protestant ‘churches’ do you belong too? Why do the so called latter ‘churches’not unite? Is it because their foundations were personal interpretations of Holy Scripture? A reality expected by Christ and which he sought to prevent by establishing his one and only Church based upon Peter.Of course because of God’s given gift of freedom sinful mankind is prone to dis-obey our Lord and Saviour.
I pray for you Vijay that its founder will forgive you for labelling ‘his church’ as ‘satanic’.It is my hope that you will escape the clutches of the fallen angel and share life everlasting with us all.
Liam, please do not waste your precious time in talking to a blasphemer.
I just cannot stand anyone talking against our Blessed Mother and this Vijay guy is just going too far.
So if the Catholic mass is unbiblical do you mean to say that the Lord’s last supper did not happen, exactly which bible do you read or you only read anything that is against Roman Catholic? Read Luke22 vs 19 if its in the bible, how can it be un-biblical If GOd decided to honour Mary by being the Mother of our Saviour who are you to say that she was just used? If Mary Mother of Jesus is dead and buried how come when Lazarus died, he went straight to heaven, and Mary The Mother of the Jesus then just dies and rot? I believe its the body that rots not the soul and God would not allow the womb that carried His beloved Son to be corrupted by the grave, thats wha I believe!
All I can say to you is be careful waht you say, I have already said God’s ways and his thinking is not like yours which is limited and always sees other’s faults!! In your hatred of the Roman Catholic you miss the whole point of being like Jesus which is what we all want to be. I want to be and respect Mother Mary and pray to her because the God I know and the Jesus I know do not USE people, Mary is close to them. God chose Mary because He saw something good or can I say pure in her therefore I want to be like her and try to follow her way of living which made God chose her to be the mother of Christ. It is very strange to me that you know a lot about Catholics’ unbiblical ways and forget the most fundamental rule to love one another as Christ loves us.
We are all human and have our faults. I hope the Holy Spirit will guide you in your prayers so that you do not always try to find the unholiness of others but to rejoice with those who call on His Name whether its through the saints or Mary, as long as God’s Name is not put to shame. Peace be with you.
God created satan and granted the use of ‘free will’.Based upon that satan attempted to replace our Maker as the result of the sin of pride.Of course this was a rediculous ambition and it was doomed to fail. Our species however strengthened the resolve of satan because of his success at getting our basic parents to sin.
Arising from this God sent his Son to save humanity and through the events around Calvary mankind was saved. But because of the above mentioned ‘free will’humanity can continue to sin.Jesus, however, by establishing his church under the auspices of the Holy Spirit has provided the means which we require to live with God forever. For example, The Mass where we receive Jesus as food,Confession to remove sin so that we canbe in the state of grace to receive at Mass and so on. Thus in order to defeat the Church satan sought to divide and conquer.And christian history confirms this but satan has no chance of being ultimately victorious.
However,to get back to basics:we pray to Mary for it is the will of God to do so. If it was not then it would be outside the guarantee given by Jesus to his church that it would possess the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. And his church has not gone wrong for he placed the church under the auspices of the Holy Spirit. That is our guarantee!And surely God who is Love would be full of joy at seeing his followers asking his beloved Mother to help them as she cared for him when he was the Word made man on earth.
Very well said Liam and Adeline……..
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
It does pain me to see people who have received Jesus Christ and are in communion with him fight each other an use inflammatory remarks. As has been pointed out already, we Catholics along with numerous other traditional denominations across the world consider people who have lead holy lives as Saints.
-We believe that they hold a special place in the Lord’s eyes (And yes, it is Biblical that the Lord of Hosts favors the righteous).
-The Scriptures also says that the Lord might heed the prayers of a favoured one (Moses, Samuel, etc).
-The bible also teaches that the early Christians prayed for each other (intercession).
Now my brothers and sister who who choose to follow the docrine of more ‘recent’ churches, I ask you, would you not ask you pastor and other members of the congregation to pray for you when you are in need? Or do you find it easier to call on God all alone even in times of distress, when you cant even concentrate properly? I assume that you will as for intercession.
What we do is the same – we ask others whom we consider righteous to pray for us. And where can we find more righteous people than in the ranks of the Saints and Angels! And amongst them who can be more blessed than Mary who carried the flesh and blood of Jesus in her womb for nine months!
Hail Mary!
“But Moses pleaded with the Lord… So the Lord changed his mind”
What a powerful verse! The God, Creator of everthing that is, the Lord of Hosts, the Ancient of Days, changes his mind upon the pleading of a righteous man! If the Lord changed his mind to answer the prayers of a man who was only choosen to lead his people – how much more will he do to answer the prayers of the maiden whom he choose to be His mother on earth!
To Jesus through Mary!
Totus Tuus Ergo Sum!!!
There is no Scriptural evidence that Mary is taken to heaven..I dont know how you people hold the vain belief..
liam o comain,Kris,
Dear Bro/Sis..The prayer of righteous man is powerful.but you cannot pray to dead and rotten people..
Exodus 32: 11, 14
“But Moses pleaded with the Lord… So the Lord changed his mindâ€
Like moses you can plead for others..and also you can ask your friends to pray for you..But its vain if you pray to dead people..
After the death of Moses..did Bible record anywhere that Moses still pleading to Lord?
Same you can analyze in life of Joshua,Othniel,Ehud,etc…
the prayers of intercessors are powerful.You are all the intercessors for Christ and you prayers are powerful and you directly go to Jesus..
Please change the belief which has no evidence from Bible..
Our belief and doctrines wont take us to heaven.Our Character and way of our living with Jesus will lead us to heaven..
Jesus loves to hear your prayers in His name..wants to be in your life..Spend time with Jesus rather than going behind some other person
Please take time to think about it..
Kris – yes we do ask others to pray for us – The bible teaches when we are sick to call for the elders James 5:14 and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. James 5:16
This however, is referring to the “living” saints – we that are still alive pray for one another. we cannot pray to or pray for the dead.
The Bible forbids not only prayer for the dead but also to the dead (regardless if they were saints or not)
it is not permissable to talk to the dead and it can be found in the following scripture:
The Old Testament term for communicating with the dead is “necromancy.” (Deuteronomy 18:9-13) It is forbidden by God: “There shall not be found among you… For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord” (an “abomination,” KJV).
Dear John, Brother in Christ,
I would like to understand how you hold your beliefs as a Christian and at the same time refer to people who have passed away as dead and rotten! The soul of a person, the breath of life, is eternal. It does not wither away.
Sociologically, the ‘recent’ churches espoused the notion that the dead are ‘dead’ for good only because the parents of any person at that point of time would have lived and died in the ‘traditional’ churches -Catholic/ Orthodox/ Lutheran, etc.
We as Catholics believe that the soul is eternal and the souls of those who led a blameless life are in Heaven praising the Lord along with the Angels. And among them is Mary, my spiritual Mother, who ceaselessely pleads for me to her Son, the Redeemer of the world.
Ofcourse it is not mandatory to venerate Mary, but then it is not mandatory to ask someone to intercede for you either. We do that only because the time and means we alone have is not enought to say thanks for all the blessings of our Lord. Hence if you choose to not take the aid of the Saints and Angels’ intercession, then you are choosing a lonely path – that all.
I request you to take time to meditate on this, rather than study the Bible as a PhD in Literature would do. For the Bible is the living Word of God and should be meditated upon with help of the Holy Spirit rather.
Mary, Mother of GOd, Seat of Wisdom, Pray for us.
Dear John,
I don’t think u ever read The Bible correctly, Lord Jesus Himself told to the The Lord God is the Lord of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses. He is not the Lord of the dead but the Lord of the living. how can u talk contradictory to the Bible itself.
And answer me “how then do you explain Marian apparitions?”
John,
Your conception of God is rather poor and I express this with respect and love.
God is ‘Almighty’ therefore he can will anything.But being God who is Love
our Creator is the source of all that is ‘good’.
I cannot believe that He who is sinless would permit the mother of his Son to be sinful as some of the previous correspondents contend.Did not Gabriel say “Hail full of grace…”.Thus emphasising the sinless nature of Mary and the reason for her as his choice to be the mother of his son, Jesus.Where there is grace there is no sin and Mary was full of it.
Secondly, when you die ,John, there will be no scriptural evidence that you will be taken to heaven.But if you follow the commandments of God (as I try too) then our hope and our ultimate destiny will be eternal joy.
What kind of a God would choose Mary to be his son’s mother and prevent her from entering heaven.Especially to the person who said ‘Yes’ but who could have said ‘no’ to Gabriel.If Mary had said ‘no’ what use of the Scriptures then?
John,I ask you to pray for me.Just as I ask my deceased parents to pray for me.Yes,physically dead but as two great people who followed Jesus throughout their lives they are alive just as you are at this moment.
Finally,you direct us to follow Jesus than some other person.But we are all the Body of Christ that is why he established one Church upon Peter and in line to the present Pope.It was the latters early converts who wrote the New Testament and who were guaranteed that the Holy Spirit would guide and protect them as a church.In fact as the Bible confirms Jesus gave the church the ‘keys of the kingdom of heaven’.
@ George
our GOD is not GOD of dead means :-
Ps 115:17 It is not the dead who praise the LORD, those who go down to silence;
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Ps 6:5 No one remembers you when he is dead. Who praises you from the grave?
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Ps 31:17 Let me not be put to shame, O LORD, for I have cried out to you; but let the wicked be put to shame and lie silent in the grave.
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Psalm 88:10 Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do those who are dead rise up and praise you? Selah
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Isa 38:18 For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness.
GOD of Abraham-means GOD of the great person Abraham or the GOD of the person Abraham whom the people of Israel reckon as an an Icon or Great…….
Kris – I believe there was a misunderstanding what John said about Mary being “taken” to heaven meaning she was not translated like Enoch or taken up like Elijah. But mary like everyone died a natural death and her soul lives forever.
And it’s Jesus sitting on the right hand of the Father making intercession for us. Mary was a sinner like all of us and if we say we have no sin we make God a liar. In Adam all have sinned. Yes God chose Mary to be the mother of Jesus and she was truly blessed but she was not the one who hung on the cross bled and died for our sins. It was Jesus the Lamb of God who knew no sin neither was guile found in him.
What if Mary had replied “no”to Gabriel for like all of us she had ‘free will’? Would Our Saviour have hung on the cross and died for us then.Would there be salvation?
The Messiah was promised in the Old Testament and within that context God had pre-ordained that Mary, his chosen one, would be sinless for I cannot conceive that sinful flesh would be taken on by a sinless son of God. Yes,Jesus’s flesh is Mary’s flesh.
Thus she had to be sinless!
And surely no matter how great the prophets for example Elijah as you referred too they can not be equal to the Mother of God.Think of it!-the Mother of God!!!Yet you deny Mary’s Assumption and acknowledge Elijah’s.
Of course that is your perhaps interpretation of The Gospels. But that precisely is why Jesus established his Church so as to ensure that the truth would prevail.For alongside your interpretations there are hundreds of others.Some of which led to Christian splits and the forming of other churches by mere humans.
And to those who have contributed in this debate and who claim that Catholics worship Mary that is untrue.Of course the spirit behind such lies is satan for the devil seeks revenge minute by minute.
Mary is blessed in the eyes of God. No one the Bible has got such a blessing and grace in His eyes. The power of the Holy Spirit over-shadowed Her. isn’t there some thing special about Her in the entire Bible, that is why She is venerable. indeed Christ was the one who died for our sins, but praying to Mary dosen’t take me away from my God but rather brings me close to Him.
And John i didn’t get an answer concerning the question that i asked u in #531 about Marian apparitions.
The angel Gabriel said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.
The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning “to fill or endow with grace.” Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence.
But dear Sister/ Brother, like all matters of faith I understand that neither you nor me can ‘win’ the argument. Both of us have shared our thoughts and now it is left to us to meditate upon it and pray to the Holy Spirit to reaveal the truth to us personally. So let us put the matter to rest. I would like to close with a story by Fr. Anthony De Mello:
A disciple once complaned,
“You tell us stories, but you never
reveal their meaning to us.â€
Said the master,
“How would you like it if someone
offered you fruit and masticated it
before giving it to you?â€
And Chritianity is definitely a fruit to be chewed.
Mary, Mother of GOd, Seat of Wisdom, Pray for us.
Totus Tuus Ergo Sum!
What I have been implying in my contributions is the fact that Jesus established ONE CHURCH in order to ensure that the truth would be carried faithfully through the generations.And when I study some of your contributions I see clearly why Our Lord thought it necessary.For many contributions are full of mis-interpretations based upon ones opinion and far from the truth.Thus, based upon such personal distortion of God’s Bible Jesus knew because of our human sinful weakness there had to be a body to ensure that satan would would not use such weakness to destroy the faith of Christians.That guarantee is the Catholic Church and I contend this inspite of it being battered and bloodied over the decades.
And because of our Lord’s guarantee the teachings of the church regarding Mary are solid and sound for the Holy Spirit is the true author.
The gift of reason should be used to gain better understanding of what was given to us in faith instead of using it to destroy faith.
It is when we seek answers through our intellects that some perhaps unwittingly remove themselves from our Saviour’s guarantee given at the birth of His Church.
As someone once wrote:”The loss of the soul begins in the mind with pride of intellect.”
And by what authority had Luther to exclude the books of Tobias,Judith, Wisdom,Ecclesiasticus,Barauch,and the two books of Machabees,together with fragments of Esther(x.4;xvi,24),and Daniel(iii,24-90;xii.,xiv)? As these books were contained in the Alexandrian list or Canon of Books which was used by Greek- speaking Jews of Alexandria,Asia Minor,Greece and Italy.
Was it because satan had influenced this Catholic Priest?Or was it because they did not fit in with his new doctrines.Perhaps a combination of both for this Priest when ordained took a solemn oath to Our Creator and yet abandoned it.
Luther arrived at the principle of ‘private judgement’, that is, picking and choosing religious doctrines.Thus if he was not in agreement with the contents of a book or chapter he rejected it.In fact he went on to mutilate some books.For example not satisfied with St. Paul’s doctrine, “we are justified by faith” Luther added the word ‘alone’to make it read as follows:”We are justified by faith alone”.And relating to his change Luther wrote:”I know very well that the word ‘alone’ is not in the Latin or Greek texts; but Dr.Martin Luther will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough.”
St.Paul writes under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost but Luther creates a Protestant Bible apparently under his own audacity.In fact Luther showed little respect for The Bible when he called the Epistle of St. James “an Epistle of straw with no character of the Gospel in it”. And as historically recorded Martin Luther spoke disparaginaly about the Epistle of St.Jude,the Epistle to the Hebrews,and the Apocalypse of St. John.
Which emphasises again the required establishment of his Church by Jesus in order to oppose heresy.
In conclusion may we reflect upon the fact that it was St.Ignatius(50-107 AD)who used the Greek word “Katholicos”(Catholic- meaning universal)to describe the Church of Christ.It was St Peter, the Bishop of Rome,who had appointed St.Ignatius Bishop of Antioch.Also St.Augustine when speaking about the Church of Christ called it The Catholic Church 240 times in his writings.
Bible says people who are dead are sleeping till the second coming of our Jesus.
Kris,Please read my last comment once again..i didnt speak about the soul.our soul will have death after judgement..till that its eternal..Thats not my subject.
“For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.”1 Thessalonians 4:15
“For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.”1 Thessalonians 4:14
As per Scripture,people who are dead are sleeping and waiting for the sound of trumphet..to stand before God for judgement.
so its vain to pray to dead people..
George and Kris-Do you know..there is a difference between the one who does the Purpose and the Will of the Lord.
God has a WILL to make a covenant between human_kind and Jesus’s Blood…and Mary is chosen to do the PURPOSE of the Lord..If Mary said “NO” to God…God would have chosen another virgin for that PURPOSE…thats all!!
Hmmm..do you think then Jesus would not been born to this earth..if Mary said “NO”??
Please think about this.
God wants to do His WILL as “For God so loved the world,that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life”John3:16..
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness”2Tim3:16
I believe the Scripture which is mentioned above and not that man claiming “Marian apparitions”
John,
Mary was chosen long before creation because to be the mother of God she had to be special. Gabriel said “Blessed art thou amongst women…” His statement confirms the truth of the first sentence.
John,
Mary was not chosen because she was a virgin!Gabriel said “Blessed art thou amongst women…”.Also “Hail full of grace…” Mary was special and unique.Which was required to give birth to the Son of God.And because of ‘free will’ Mary could have said no but she was a saint and she was sinless…That is why she was full of grace-for where there is grace there is no sin.And I am forever grateful that from the Cross via your namesake,John, Mary is our spiritual mother also.
Is “asking” Mary to pray/intercedes for us “praying to” Mary to pray/intercedes for us since Mary is not herenow on earth? Why need Mary to pray/intercedes for us if Jesus himself is interceding for us(Rom:8:34). Is Mary sinless? If so, does that means Mary does not need forgiveness of sins and the gift of salvation since some claim she gives us this gift of salvation which is Jesus? If Mary is sinless, does that makes her co-equal with Jesus or higher as the title Mother of God implies?
@ liam o comain
Mary was chosen because she was a virgin:
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Matthew 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
It does not say she was full of grace. Mary was not sinless – we are all born in sin because of adam and eve’s transgression and that includes Mary!
Seem like the catholic church added this and the Bible says in revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
John – keep pressing forward to the truth!!
Dear liam o comain,
In old testament,regarding prophecy about Jesus birth..God clearly tells us that “virgin shall conceive and bear a son”
“Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel”Isaiah7:14
And it didnot tells us “SPECIAL VIRGIN” as u claiming.
God wants to highlight the Immanuel and not that virgin..
Since God chose Mary to do His purpose..
Gabriel then said “Blessed art thou amongst women… Mary should be thankful to God for this blessing..thats all.
Please dont fool yourself by thinking Mary is a Saint and Sinless..If thats the case..why God didnot used Mary’s sinless blood for salvation?
Let Jesus be your spiritual mother,father and all.
God be with you:-)
George:
Related to ur comment #536
you said “Christ was the one who died for our sins, but praying to Mary dosen’t take me away from my God but rather brings me close to Him”
The covenant of Christ’s Blood will be effective in your life only IF you present yourself as living sacrifice to do His Will..Praying to Mary or to anyother dead person will noway add favour in sight of my Lord.
Friends in Christ Jesus,
As I pen these lines it is 12 mid-day in Derry City,Ireland,and I pray the Angelus listening to the ringing bell from the tower of my local church.An occurence pointing to Gabriel conveying God’s request to Mary.Again re-emphasising the uniqueness of this little Jewish maiden.But, alas,when I recall some of the comments relating to God’s mother above it saddens me.For although my earthly mother is dead I would shudder if some of the comments read were pointed at her.But then one must not hold a grudge for I am human and I sin like many of my fellow human brothers and sisters.And because of that brokenness mankind can express and committ in ignorance what is the folly of others especially if the latter are influenced by the father of lies.
But as a Christian I am duty bound to express the truth which has only one source the Holy Spirit and as God is Love the purity of that love radiates from the beautiful Mother of Our Saviour,Jesus Christ.
Hail, Mary, blessed art thou amongst women!
Hi Liam,
I’m following your comments since you joined us. I know how saddening it is as I have gone through the same. Please know that we are with you and we love our Blessed mother Mary..
Take care..
Preethi
Liam o Comain,Preethi:
There is no point to be sad for vain things..
People who come in Christ from other religion have proper faith according to scripture..
And the sad part is people who born as Christians dont know the right way..
I repeat that Mary was not chosen to be the mother of Jesus because she was a virgin alone.And I find it hard to believe that our sinless and almighty Creator would be born carrying the flesh of a sinner.Are you saying that Jesus was tainted by sin via his Mother?
It would appear so for Mary has been labeled as a sinner like us all by some correspondents.
As a member of Christ’s Church my devotion to Mary is not on the same level as my devotion to St.John of The Cross.Rather my devotion to Mary is beyond devotion to any saint since her role in Jesus becoming man and saving humanity had a universal impact on the world.And if Mary was not an exceptional human being then why call her ‘blessed amongst women’?
Many of your position tend to ignore that Mary was foreshadowed in The Bible.In Genesis,the very first book of the Old Testament, which has been called the “Protoevangelicum” meaning the “first gospel”, the “woman” and the “serpent” are put in”enmity”:”I will put enmity between you (the serpent) and the woman,between your seed and her seed;he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel” (Gen 3:15).
Enmity means a complete and entire mutual opposition.Since the seed of the woman is Christ the Redeemer,then the woman must be the Virgin Mary who, with her Son, has complete enmity against satan and against sin.
In Isaiah 7:14 reference is made to the “Virgin-Mother of Emmanuel”:”Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign.Behold,a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,and his name shall be called Emmanuel”.Later in Isaiah,Emmanuel is referred to as the future Saviour of His people(Is8:8-9) (Immanuel- ‘God with us’).
Yes,Mary, was seen by early scripture scholars as ‘The Ark of Noah’built by divine command who escaped the effects of sin (Gen 6:9).
God bless you both!