Why should we pray to Virgin Mary? The reasons are many.
Why do Catholics pray to Mother Mary? Is Rosary really powerful?
The intercession of Mother Mary is very powerful as Jesus cannot neglect His mothers commands.This can be proved by the first miracle Jesus did at the wedding at Cana. – (John 2:1-11). Mother Mary told Jesus “They have no more wine.” And what was the final result? He turned water into wine.
In “The Poem of the Man-God” by Maria Valtorta, she says that Jesus told her about this incident as “I did it for Mary”. This proves that the intercession of Mother Mary is very very strong.
Mother Mary was blessed with Holy Spirit abundantly. We can see this as we read “At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” (Luke 1:39-41) ; just by Virgin Mary’s greeting.
Listen to the talk from Apologetics on Mary, Purgatory and The Bible
What the angels thought on this matter:-
When angel appeared before Zechariah,father of John, angel just greets him by his name ,nothing more although he was “upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commandments and regulations blamelessly.” – (Luke 1:6)
When angel appeared before Joseph, the greeting was like this: “an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” – (Matthew 1:20). Angel greeted him ‘son of david’, thats all.
Now let us see how did the angel greet Virgin Mary. It goes like this: “The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” (Luke 1:28). See the difference….
Also read the article Mary, The Mystical Rose


i said this for all the people who are denying the savior of the world . ( even for the admin.)
god said mother Mary was in god’s plan but he(god) did not wanted Mary be become the god.
that’s why , Jesus said ” ASK ME AND IT SHALL BE GIVEN UNTO YOU ” then why we do catholic pray to Mary to tell Jesus what do we need ? when Jesus all ready said that i am the only way to heaven not mother Mary .
Liam (#1510):
Who is Jesus according to you? Do you agree that He is God manifested in the flesh?
# 1513
Interrupting because couldn’t resist. You’ll get your answer.
But I just wonder why don’t you answer it first yourself from your own ‘interpretation’?
Because you have already decided what you are going to say, whatever else others write you anyways not going to ponder on!
@Alan #1507,
Question: What exactly is the purpose of John Baptizing in the Gospels and what type of Baptism did John the baptist preach.
Reply: Even a grade two pupils in our Catholic schools can answer you straight without blinking their eyes, the only thing I did not touch that issue is because , brother Liam has sufficiently addressed this in his response to you. And let me remind you that we had touched this issue partially in Nicodemus episodes. And for the benefit of your additional information I will supply you biblical instruction taken in (Mt.3:11); “I baptize you in water for repentance…†and (Acts 19:4-5); “ Then how were you baptize? He asked. With John Baptism they replied. John baptism said Paul was a baptism of repentance;†Now I have answered you what type John’s baptism had preached, what do you want to know more of this issue? I know you are up in something…let’s give it a try?
Before I forget, since you are keen to receive response to your query because you feel smarting that I may not be able to answer all your nonsense I also demand in return you answer all the questions I have addressed to you. I will list below questions you have conveniently evaded in our discussions.
1.)Sir may ask you, did you really know who was the original person the KJV translators base their works of translating it into old English? You seem not aware of the history from what source the KJV’s base their translation? #1299:
2.)Before I forget sir, How will you reconcile 1Cor.9:5 “WIFE†(translation) to 1 Cor.7:9, “I wish that all men were as I am†[i.e., unmarried]?? #1304:
3.)Apostolic succession??? You haven’t produce any document to justify you lineage of your own apostolic succession.#1481???
4.) What is your point #1482, between amongst women and above women? #1486:
5.) Which is which, have biblical truth or contains un-biblical teachings? #1500:
6.) I have also touched 1John 4;1-3(about the flesh and the anti- Christ) but you conveniently did not answer on this issue. #1481:
7.) I have also illustrated 1John 2:18-19; referring to the false teachers but you also conveniently evaded this issue. #1481:
8.) Are you not aware that you may fulfill prophesy of Gen. 3:15??? #1500 and 1494: Several times I have used this verse to illicit reaction but you remain silent on this imputation.
These were issues that you have evaded to answer but on those eight issues I shall only demand the “Apostolic Succession� I will make a fair deal to end once and for all arguing with you, that if you can provide public documents from your generation rewinding back to the first apostles of Christ (ready to be cross checked???) supporting your lineage of apostolic succession I shall leave the Catholic faith and be a bible believing Christian but if you cannot provide, the same thing should happen to you, would you agree?
I await your response to this challenge.
Jesus king of mercy I trust in you.
Ave maria!
@Alan #1503,
Here we go again, I almost admire your ability in twisting passages in the Scripture. Here is another example of a cymbal clashing or a gong booming without direction of a conductor.
“Mary recognised the guilt of her sin and was forgiven when she admitted to God that He was the savior.â€
Show me a verse that supported your argument that Mary admitted the guilt of her sin to God?
Here is the typology why Mary pronounced “God my Savior.†She was fulfilling the prophesy of Psalm45:18; ‘So shall the king desire your beauty; for he is your lord, and you must worship him… I will make your name memorable through all generations; therefore shall nations praise you forever and ever.â€
“You see some man(like Alan)who think himself wise? (By manipulating, twisting and bending the words in the scripture) More hope for a fool than for him!†Prov.26:12
Jesus king of mercy I trust in you.
Ave Maria!
@Brother Liam, #1505:
Thank you for a well founded instruction you shared to us, i completely agree with you!
Ave Maria!
1513
Alan,still playing your wee games.Such an absurd (silly)question to ask me based upon the comments that I have expressed as a member of Christ’s Catholic Church since I entered the debate.
The TRUTH is in my contributions and if you or anyone refuse it then so be it.The latter the result of our God given gift of ‘free will’.
~~~
1511
Shirley:
Yes,we all needed a saviour and we got one.But Mary was saved in a special manner because she was destined to be the Mother of Jesus.
But,please, bear in mind that Mary’s sin was not a ‘personal sin’ for when you were born to your parents like Mary you were not guilty of a personal sin but like all of us we were ‘tainted’by the ‘original sin’of Adam and Eve.Thus it is the sin of our 1st parents which we inherited from the latter but you or I was not guilty of committing it!
Thus ‘original sin’ is completely different to ‘actual sin’ which we committ when we break the Commandments of God and His Church.
Here, I recall my children who were not born with an immunity to disease.Thus the local medical profession vacinated them against diseases.Helping my children to develop an immunity and fight disease.And when I reflect upon ‘original sin’ I sense a connection between it and a vaccine for, on a spiritual level, the vaccine provided by God is known as Baptism.The latter granted by Jesus to remove the sinful stain of original sin- a sin not committed by us.
Christine Marie (#1515):
Well.. well.. well.. just as i suspected!! You and Liam are not in the same “wave-length” as far as baptism is concerned. For Liam has said one thing and you say another. And yet Liam boastfully claims that the catholic church is united and does not have diverse interpretations like the Protestants denominations (see #1501). You people need to sit up with and recognize the falsehoods you are living in.
Ok. so you Christine have got it right, some what but not fully. It appears you have skipped some verses to throw up your usual smoke-screen and hide behind it.
Yes John preached the Baptism of Repentance. But what is that Repentance exactly? Turn to Mary as co-mediator, co-redemptrix?
No.No.. You need to read Acts 19:1-6 for a clear picture especially verse 5.
Now some exhortation and edification for you, liam and others. Did you now that though biblically correct, the catholic teaching on baptism rests on the John’s Baptism in the Gospels, however those who were baptised during the gospel period had to be re-baptised again? Did you know this? How do we know this? Precisely Acts 19:1-6 explains it all. So infant baptism is the RC Church is first and foremost, invalid. The New Testament Baptism is only for those who “believe” in the Lord Jesus Christ and not in anyone else Mary/saints. etc. St Paul is very clear in Acts 19:1-6.
There are four steps of becoming a complete Christian, known as the “Christian initiation” into the kingdom of God, and eternal life. These are {i)Repent (ii)Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (iii)Be Baptised (iv) Receive the Holy Ghost.
Where can we find these find four steps? Can we find the “truth” and rely on the Gospels? – the answer is no .. because those baptised during the gospel period, could not receive the fourth (iv) requirement, the Holy Ghost, because the Holy Ghost was promised only after Jesus ascended into heaven. So to receive the Holy Ghost they (disciples baptized by John) had to be re-baptized – St.Paul makes it clear in Acts 19:1-6. Got it?? Are you beginning to see a clear picture now?
Now before i get to the meat of my exhortation, I pray the we have a receptive heart and an alert mind.
Now the most surprising million dollar question… Let me explain by grouping Christendom into 3 major camps (a)Catholics (b)Evangelicals (c)Pentecostals.
Now let’s see closely what each of the said 3 groups preach in terms of salvation and becoming a child of God.
(a) Catholics – say Baptism is the means.
(b) Evangelical – say believe by faith in Jesus.
(c) Pentecostal – say receive the baptism of the holy spirit, twice, and start speaking in tongues.
Now you will surely agree with me what I have written at (a-c).
So. if we analyse the teachings of all the three groups, are they preaching the “biblical truth”? Yes, but only quarter of the truth. Why?? because all 3 groups teach requirement (iii) and (iv), but ignore (i) and (ii). Why has this happened?. Well the answer is simply that these three groups have taken a few bible verses blown it out of context and made it into a “pretext”. And pretext breeds heresies!!!. Are you getting the point now? All three Groups do not have the the “complete” truth, but just (iii) and (iv), so the Christian initiation into the Kingdom of God and Eternal life. Evangelicals stress on (ii)which is greater than the other three, but it does rest on the three as support.
So that why til today why Catholics and Evangelicals both point fingers at each other. Catholics say -“it is not by faith alone” while the Evangelicals say in the affirmative and further say that Baptism is just an ordinance commanded by the Lord and that we are saved by faith by grace alone as the prime focus.
Where can we find the exact four steps for a person to be fully birthed (the same Born gain) thing Jesus spoke in John 3), the Christian initiation, into the Kingdom of God, and eternal life? Can you throw some light on this subject because it will unlock perhaps all other misconceptions you may have?
Chrsitine Marie (#1516):
Show me a verse that supported your argument that Mary admitted the guilt of her sin to God
Is there always a necessity that some biblical teaching must be explicit and not implied? Where can we find the word “Trinity” in the Bible, but yet why do we believe in the “Trinity”?. Can we not find the “concept” taught in 1 John 5:7? unless off course you look into a “Corrupted” bible version.
Like wise, we as born sinners (Mary too); when we acknowledge and turn in humble submission to the God and acknowledge him as the savior is in acknowledgement of His Holiness and sovereignty to forgive our sins and to clean us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). In the biblical context, Mary is acknowledging God as her savior, because only a sinner recognizes the need of a savior.
I surely see you are finding it difficult to admit that you yourself are a “sinner” and this is pride in the eyes of God.
@Brother Liam,
Have you notice comment #1508 second paragraph? Your beloved opposition was now using Gen.3:15 against us, this reminds me of his claim being Catholic as well. Well maybe this is a good sign that he sees light in arguing with us. Piece by piece he was learning to use the defense of a Catholic faith, imagine using the very verse, teachings implied to Mary and Mary’s offspring! Unknowingly he was employing our arguments, and if we are in a sport of boxing this guy is totally groggy for the numerous blows you throw at him but do not be complacent brother Liam, (Satan employ this tactic in the garden of Eden even to the point of claiming he was also lord, lord of the underworld). The only thing he can be saved is the counter Hail Mary punch you used against him but I doubt he will find it in his arsenal because only the true disciples of Christ and of Mary knows it by heart.
Ave Maria!
#1520.. (errata)
Some little goof up on my part:
i said “…because only a sinner recognizes the need of a savior”. Instead it should be as:
“.. a sinner when under conviction of the Holy Spirit recognizes the guilt of their sin”.
Liam at #1518 .. i see there is a confusion perhaps of not understanding about sin. When the bible teaches about sin as in Roman 3:23 it is indicating the Adamic sin we have inherited and not personal sin. So when we make claims about Mary’s immaculate conception, we are saying she is born without the Adamic sin inherited which is false because the bible teaches that only Jesus was immaculately conceived in Mary’s womb without the Adamic sin.
See what 2 Corinthians 5:21 says = For he (GOD) hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Only Jesus who is God is immaculately conceived in Mary’s womb without the stain of original Adamic sin. Mary the mother of Jesus became sanctified at the moment she submitted to God’s will (but she was “born” with the original Adamic sin just like other human beings – it must be noted) and she explicitly acknowledged “God my savior”. Mary is simply the human vessel through which God became flesh, blessed to receive the Incarnate Lord, not to make Him.
But Rome preaches all falsehoods, such as Mary immaculate concept, Assumption bodily into heaven without any proof in the scriptures just because the Pope’s ego was stoked to come out with such a dogma, she is a co-mediator, co-redemptrix when scriptures say “no”. So why are we preached with such falsehoods and sheepishly follow and believe such false teachings thru blind obedience when the evidence is crystal clear. Should we obey what God says or what some “human” pope says blindly!!!
Question: “What does the Bible say about the virgin Mary?”
Answer: Mary the mother of Jesus was described by God as “highly favored†(Luke 1:28). The phrase “highly favored†comes from a single Greek word, which essentially means “much grace.†Mary received God’s grace.
Grace is “unmerited favor,†meaning something we receive despite the fact that we do not deserve it. Mary needed grace from God just as the rest of us do. Mary herself understood this fact, as she declared in Luke 1:47, “. . . and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior. . .â€
Mary recognized that she needed the Savior. The Bible never says that Mary was anyone but an ordinary human whom God chose to use in an extraordinary way. Yes, Mary was a righteous woman and favored (graced) by God (Luke 1:27-28). At the same time, Mary was a sinful human being who needed Jesus Christ as her Savior, just like everyone else (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 1 John 1:8).
Mary did not have an “immaculate conception.†The Bible doesn’t suggest Mary’s birth was anything but a normal human birth. Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus (Luke 1:34-38), but the idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary is unbiblical. Matthew 1:25, speaking of Joseph, declares, “But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus.â€
The word “until†clearly indicates that Joseph and Mary did have sexual union after Jesus was born. Joseph and Mary had several children together after Jesus was born. Jesus had four half-brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). Jesus also had half-sisters, although they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:55-56). God blessed and graced Mary by giving her several children, which in that culture was the clearest indication of God’s blessing on a woman.
One time when Jesus was speaking, a woman in the crowd proclaimed, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed†(Luke 11:27). There was never a better opportunity for Jesus to declare that Mary was indeed worthy of praise and adoration. What was Jesus’ response? “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it†(Luke 11:28). To Jesus, obedience to God’s Word was more important than being the woman who gave birth to the Savior.
Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus, or anyone else, direct any praise, glory, or adoration towards Mary. Elizabeth, Mary’s relative, praised Mary in Luke 1:42-44, but her praise is based on the blessing of giving birth to the Messiah. It was not based on any inherent glory in Mary.
Mary was present at the cross when Jesus died (John 19:25). Mary was also with the apostles on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:14). However, Mary is never mentioned again after Acts chapter 1. The apostles did not give Mary a prominent role. Mary’s death is not recorded in the Bible. Nothing is said about Mary ascending to heaven or having an exalted role there. As the earthly mother of Jesus, Mary should be respected, but she is not worthy of our worship or adoration.
The Bible nowhere indicates that Mary can hear our prayers or that she can mediate for us with God. Jesus is our only advocate and mediator in heaven (1 Timothy 2:5). If offered worship, adoration, or prayers, Mary would say the same as the angels: “Worship God!†(see Revelation 19:10; 22:9.) Mary herself sets the example for us, directing her worship, adoration, and praise to God alone: “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for He has been mindful of the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me — holy is His name†(Luke 1:46-49).
May the BVM, continue to inspire u as u keep up this good work. Amen
@Alan #1519 and #1520,
You are terrible indeed Alan, I can flatly say you have been used by the negative entities of the underworld. I haven’t seen sound reasoning from the very beginning since you enter into a discussion to anyone of us here. There was none contradictory arguments (with Liam, about baptism) we employ in destroying your argument, it is only in your malicious mind and wild imaginations you have created in your unfocused mind with the help of your teacher, the father of all lies.
Here again is one example that you do not know what you are talking about. “Christian Initiationâ€, do you really know what that means? I have nothing against how you lay down your premise (your interpretation or formula) about the subject because it is still up for a profound exposition, but to tell you frankly you created argument that is not consonant to the title you have mentioned. Check your fact first because we may be playing a different ball game.
You haven’t answered my challenge yet, about apostolic succession. I am still awaiting a response from you.
Jesus king of mercy I trust in you.
Ave Maria!
Pride was the sin of Adam and Eve and Alan you epitomise it today as confirmed by your comments.
You are so proud that you will use anything to defend your thought and that includes lies as a close reading of your contributions will confirm.Of course your statements are so contradictory at times that it confirms a confused personality.That is why I pray for You and those you may wrongly influence.
The only truth that is valid (not your personal interpretations of the Holy Bible-nor that of Luther,Calvin,Knox,etc.,)is that Holy Scripture confirms that Jesus established one Church upon Peter and that Church still exists after 2,000 plus years.And as then is now guided by the Holy Spirit.That role given to the Spirit then as now was to help Christians understand everything that Jesus taught so that authentic believers would be Christ’s messengers.That is through them Jesus would speak to all of humanity.
Thus the source of the Catholic Church’s teachings is Jesus,himself.The Church’s mission is to preserve and to hand on faithfully the teaching of Jesus.And it does this 1-through the spoken word:the tradition of the Church and 2-the written word:the New Testament,particularly the Gospels.
As I have written above through the history of Our Lord’s Church individuals like yourself and groups have mistaken certain aspects of Jesus teachings and as a result various heresies has sprung up which God’s Church has had to combat.In fact your position,Alan,is part of that heretical chain and no doubt there will be more for satan is always working on human pride via ones ego to destroy the Catholic Church which is the body and contains the message of Our Saviour.
Alan, it’s not my intention to attack you personally or those who agree with you but as a believer/member and supporter of Jesus and his Church I must defend the TRUTH AS I SEE IT AND BELIEVE IT.In fact it is the father of lies whom I am attacking when I oppose heresy.
If I had been in the times of Calvin and Luther for example I would be defending the Church of Christ then as now.
In conclusion,it is important that even those with heretical beliefs if they love and serve Jesus salvation is open to them for Jesus died to save all from satan.The heresies are mere spawn being used against Jesus and his Church in order to destroy.
It was Mary who gave Christ his human body but not his divinity.For Mary is not ‘divine’and that is why those who claim that Christians adore Mary are full of ignorance especially of the Bible contents and normal human sense.Of course there are also those fed lies by agents of the father of lies.
In the early days of Catholicism there was a heresy going about based upon personal interpretation that Jesus was not a God but purely a man.And others believed that Jesus was a God but not a true man.The supporters of the latter positions concluded that Jesus simply took on the appearance of a human so that he could be seen and heard as a human.
The latter was in 431 so the Pope of the time and the Fathers convened a Ecumenical Council to debate the matter at Ephesus.And there after much debate based upon holy Scripture and the guarantee of Jesus himself to Peter( in relation to matters of faith)the Church made it clear that Jesus was truly God.
Thus as mother of Jesus Mary was truly the Mother of God not of 2 persons just joined together but united in 1 person.Here then is an example of how Mary deepens our faith in Jesus Christ.And the same applies to Mary’s perpetual virginity.In fact the earliest Christian writings affirm these facts.As an example St.Basil(one of the earliest) said:”The friends of Christ do not tolerate hearing that the Mother of God ever ceased to be a virgin”.
Thus we should pray to Mary!
@Alan #1520,
We have no disagreement about the text 1John5:7 so you should have not used it as your way out supporting your argument that Mary admitted the guilt of her sin to God.
You accused, so the burden of proof lies on your side to produce evidence that support your accusation base explicitly of course in scripture. Got it!
Ave Maria!
Liam (#1527):
It was Mary who gave Christ his human body but not his divinity.For Mary is not ‘divine’ … Thus we should pray to Mary!
Then if Jesus is divine (God), don’t we have to obedient to what he explicitly commands? What did he mention in Luke 11:1 and 11:27-28?
Now if you say ..”Thus we have to pray to Mary” .. it becomes obviously you private interpretation that has no found support whatsoever in scripture. You are trying to elevate/project your self as the ultimate authority above the Word of God in all matters of faith, practice and doctrine. Biblical Christianity built upon apostolic doctrines does not support your “cooked” up stories. Nobody in the New Testament Christian Church ever “prayed” to Mary. You are simply disobedient to what Jesus commanded. Your prayers to Mary is futile dead-end alley. I do pray for you.
Hello Everyone,
This debate piqued my interest. So I thought i’d share some excellent videos from David Pawson – an englishman, a Bible scholar well known. The videos will surely give good increase in knowledge. So it will pay off to download these videos and hear them intently in the order given below. Good day to all of you!
David talks about ‘The Normal Christian Birth’
http://davidpawson.com.edgesuite.net/Pawson/Video/David_Pawson_Book_Promo_The_Normal_Christian_Birth_564.mp4
Born Again
http://davidpawson.com.edgesuite.net/Pawson/Video/David_Pawson_Born_Again_1000.mp4
Repent of Your Sins Towards God
http://davidpawson.com.edgesuite.net/Pawson/Video/David_Pawson_Repent_of_Your_Sins_Towards_God_1000.mp4
Believe in The Lord Jesus
http://davidpawson.com.edgesuite.net/Pawson/Video/David_Paswon_Believe_in_The_Lord_Jesus_1000.mp4
Be Baptised in Water
http://davidpawson.com.edgesuite.net/Pawson/Video/David_Pawson_Be_Baptised_in_Water_1000.mp4
Receive the Holy Spirit
http://davidpawson.com.edgesuite.net/Pawson/Video/David_Pawson_Receive_the_Holy_Spirit_1000.mp4
Saved at Last
http://davidpawson.com.edgesuite.net/Pawson/Video/David_Pawson_Saved_at_Last_1000.mp4
These videos are quite heavy, then you may download the mp3 files at http://davidpawson.org/resources/search/?search_terms=Normal+Christian+Birth&x=0&y=0
The official site is at http://davidpawson.org
@Alan#1523,
I thought of Alan as incredible reader of Scripture because that was his credential presented in his article # 1267, addressed to sis. Sheeja.
And I quote; “Christians learn the scriptures because God Commands it (2 Timothy 2:15). The Scriptures of the Bible is God’s love letter to mankind. It educates us about God, who is he and his Holy attributes. Besides it contains instructions how we should lead our life that is pleasing to him and according to his perfect will. Christians learn the scriptures because it has the power to transform lives, makes us wise and to make us holy and acceptable in God’s sight. Without the scriptures we would not know how the instructions God gives us to follow in order to enter heaven and to avoid hell. So at least basic knowledge and total obedience of the scriptures is important.†He was referring here the word “studyâ€.
At first I was somewhat convinced because he presented passages in the scripture that was acceptable in its first glance. But as he was going along and presenting arguments like a very meticulous teacher of the gospel of Christ I have sensed something wrong with his many teachings that force me to make comments to undress his heretical view like the latest I will illustrate below.
Quote excerpted # 1523;â€The word “until†clearly indicates that Joseph and Mary did have sexual union after Jesus was born. Joseph and Mary had several children together after Jesus was born. Jesus had four half-brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). Jesus also had half-sisters, although they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:55-56). God blessed and graced Mary by giving her several children, which in that culture was the clearest indication of God’s blessing on a woman.â€
This comment was the most ludicrous comment I have ever heard from a preacher of a Bible believing Christian. It is really unchristian like downgrading the vow of chastity of the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ.
It is not my intention to have you embarrassed in this forum but I must correct you of the wrong impression you have cast to my Lady. You need to know important facts that you falsely attributed to Her.
With regard to the word “until”, let’s look at the following verses:
Matt 28.20: “..and surely I am with you always, until the end of the age.”
John 21.22: Jesus answered. “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”
2 Sam 6.23: “no son was born to Michol, the daughter of Saul until her dying day.”
In all these examples, the word “until” does not mean that Jesus will cease to be with us after the end of the age, that John was intended to die should he still be alive when Jesus returned, or that Michol had a son after death. The word “until” shows that the writer is concerned primarily to inform us what happens before a specific event – not after.
Now you have named, and I quote, “Jesus had four half-brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). Jesus also had half-sisters, although they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:55-56).†In “Chess parlance†as I have mentioned before, you have committed so many blunders because of your careless move but this latest was the most damaging that eventually lose any hope even to salvage a draw. You will be check mated on this (issue) game.
These four (apostles) half brothers you have mentioned was actually an apostles of Christ. I will give you verses that will prove of my contention. I can even supply you the name of their fathers and mothers to prove of erroneous and malicious imputation you attributed to our Lady. I will list it below for your additional knowledge and correct your wrong impression and application against Her.
1.Mt.4:21;â€James son of Zebedee and his brother John; they were in their boat with their father Zebedee, mending their nets and they called them.†Collaborated in Lk.5:10; “ so were James and John, sons of Zebedee.â€
2.Mt.20:20; “Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons came with her sons to make a request of Him, and bowed low;†Collaborated in Mt.27:56; “ Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of Zebedee’s son.â€
3.John 19:25; “Near the cross of stood his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleofas and Mary of Magdala.†This episode was collaborated in Lk.24:10; “The women were Mary of Magdala, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James.†Also in Mt. 10:3; “James the son of Alphaeus,†Alphaeus and Cleofas are the same person, since the Aramaic name for Alphaeus could be rendered in Greek either Alpaeus or as Cleofas.
4.John 1:40-42; “One of these two who became followers of Jesus after hearing what John had said was Andrew, The brother of Simon Peter…he took Simon to Jesus. Jesus looked hard at him and said, ’you are Simon son of John; you are to be called Cephas-meaning Rock.†Collaborated in Mt.16:17; “You are the Christ, he said ‘the Son of the living God’. Jesus replied, ‘Simon son of Jonah’, you are a happy man!â€â€¦
5.Acts 1:13; “and Jude son of Jamesâ€
In the O.T and N.T the brothers of the Lord or brethren of the Lord does not literally means brothers of the same parent, half or full. It has a wide variety of usage in the Bible. Like for example listed below;
1. Abraham’s “brother” (Gen. 14:14), even though, being the son of Haran, Abraham’s brother (Gen. 11:26–28), he was actually Abraham’s nephew. Similarly, Jacob is called the “brother” of his uncle Laban (Gen. 29:15). Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar had no sons, only daughters, who married their “brethren,” the sons of Kish. These “brethren” were really their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).
2.In Leviticus 10:4; Moses summoned Mishael and Elzaphan sons of Aaron’s uncle Uzziel, and said to them, come take your brothers…
3.In Acts 1:15; “One day Peter stood up to the brothers-there were about a hundred persons in the congregation: In the same manner, I am sure you call your members in your congregation brothers and sisters.
I believe I have sufficiently addressed your difficulty finding Mary’s brothers (children) you can also be one of the brothers mentioned if you will acknowledge now what St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe implied, when he said, “Whoever does not wish to have Immaculate Mary as his Mother…will not have Christ as his Brother.â€
I acknowledge Mary’s role in the N.T has not given enough prominence because she was satisfied being the backgrounder of the apostolic mission of the apostles, but to make it appear that she was of no importance and of less regard to the apostolic mission is once again highly dubious. And this was once again implied by my beloved opposition, Sir Alan Almeida and I quote;â€However, Mary is never mentioned again after Acts chapter 1. The apostles did not give Mary a prominent role.â€
Now we will look if this statement correctly supported by the Scriptures!
1.Romans 16:6; “greetings to Mary who worked so hard for you;â€
2.Galatians 4:4; “but when the appointed time came God sent his Son, born of a ‘woman’ , born a subject of the Law.â€
3.2John1:1; “From the Elder: my greetings to the ‘Lady’, the chosen one, and to her children, she whom I love in the truth-and I am not the only one, for so do all who have come to know the truth.†Remember the episode in the cross? When Christ said to his mother; “Woman, this is your son. Then to the disciple he said, this is your mother. And from that moment the disciple made a place for her in his home. This must be the best link we have in these two passages, they were collaborating each other.
4.Revelation 12:1; “The woman clothed with the sun…â€
It is not my intention to destroy your argument and embarrass you but I am acting charitably to correct constructively your wrong impression of the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Think of this!!! If you are a married man, I am sure you once said to your wife ‘I Love you’, but if you will say afterwards- I really can’t stand your mother, do you think your lovely wife will say yes and marry you? Next time, please put some solid logic in your argument as correctly implied to you by Anon #1496!
Jesus king of mercy I trust in you.
Ave Maria!
Christine Marie (#1531):
I must truly say that you treat the scriptures like it was a simple story book instead of a divine book. You core intentions are not to “learn” scripture to allow it change and transform your life in accordance to God’s will, but rather use it as a weapon to debunk the truth with your heretical false teachings taught by roman catholic pagan traditions which “pollute” the Word of God. You never accept God’s authority but prefer to obey a human pope authority as the ultimate even if it goes against the teachings of the scripture. I sensed this attitude of yours from the beginning. You are led not by the “spirit” of God, but a “female” seducing spirit which is stoking you ego to believe not in the humble mother of Jesus as described in scripture, but a female goddess who has “usurped” the place of the Biblical mary masquerading as the co-redemptrix/co-mediator, when such a thing is not supported in scripture. Roman Catholicism is not christian but babylonian doctrine cleverly presented in a neat package. The is the true hallmark of a “cult” setup.
In Luke 1:46-55 is Mary’s “The Magnificat”.
Please reflect upon its contents.There are some beautiful authentic truth there- in.For example-‘My soul does magnify the Lord’.
Now as we know scripture is the truth,it is the Word of God and therefore those who deny its contents are definitely not singing from the same hymn book,so to speak.
Here through Mary’s confession the Holy Spirit is declaring that the soul of this Jewish virgin MAGNIFIES GOD.Think about it-reflect upon it? God is here saying via His Spirit that the soul of Mary increases His image.
Also, there is the part sentence of Mary in another quote from The Magnificat-for example-“For He that is mighty has done great things to me…”.Reflect,please,it does not refer to ‘great things for me’ but it states ‘great things to me’.
And I believe that the great things Our Father done to Mary was to ensure her perpetual virginity and sinlessness for God had chosen her from before Creation to be the Mother of his Son.And as God he had the power to do this.
Those who state that Mary was not sinless and eventually broke her virginity with Joseph cannot grasp the ALMIGHTY REALITY that is GOD.It is absurd to think not alone state that God who sent his Son to destroy SIN BY ACCEPTING INFLICTED TORTURE AND DEATH BY OTHERS would let his Mother revert to the common condition of humanity.Especially as Her Son overcame and conquered SIN.
Friends,in Christ Jesus,the son of Mary,in no way would abandon his loving Mother… For as she was preserved from sin and was a perpetual virgin who suffered as she saw her son suffering the love of Jesus for her brought her to heaven.That was ordained by God the Father.
1531:
Alan,
MARY, was preserved from sin because the one and only God who is eternally sinless decided to take on human form in order to destroy sin.Thus it would be absurd for our sinless God who is the eternal opponent of sin to be conceived in the womb of a SINNER?
That is why God preserved Mary from sin as part of his redemptive strategy.
And automatically when Jesus established his Church, Mary, was its Mother.Because the one and only Church (that is-the Catholic Church) is His BODY! And through the Sacrament of Baptism we become a part of the Body of Christ.
Now the Church is Christ and Mary is its sinless and ordained Mother.Thus we can pray to her and as St.Paul confirms we can pray to each other requesting help because we are members of ‘the Body of Christ’ whose Mother is Mary.
You end by saying that you pray for me and I thank you.But surely Our Saviour Jesus would not object to me praying to Mary his loving Mother for you.After all as God- Jesus is by his very nature LOVE.There is no selfish aspects to authentic Love and obviously Mary, in reception of prayers or requests,would consult her Son anyway.Because all comes ultimately via Jesus.
What kind of person would object to someone like Mary praying for them
on his behalf to her Son who is God and whom she dwells with.
1497
IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH THE VERSE
@ #1531
Dear Christine, thank you for 2John1:1 in this context!