Why Pray To Virgin Mary?

I think you missed an important thing.

JOHN 19:26-27 — When Jesus saw His mother there, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Dear woman, here is your son,” and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.”

Thus just before dying, Jesus gave all of us ‘a new mother’, Mother Mary. This means she holds the place of our Holy Mother and we can approach this Holy Mother for intercession.

Rosary is very powerful. It has done many wonders. John Paul II said, “The best prayer I like is the Rosary”.

And above all, my personal experience with this powerful prayer is just enough for me, to keep praying for Virgin Mary’s intercession.

The pray is with the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT in Jesus name.

God is our creator and he wants we adore him with all our heart.

So according to the bible we shouldn´t pray to Virgin Mary, graven image or something like that because they don´t have power.

“Other than”? :) lol. The birth and raising of Jesus is a big deal. I guess St. Joseph is way way way down on the list of important Biblical persons, according to the logic you see to be espousing.

There are more references to King David and Abraham but no one prays to them.

Catholics and Orthodox do. We believe they are saints as well.

God had favor by choosing Mary even though He could have chosen anyone else. THERE IS ONLY ONE KEY PLAYER IN GOD’S SALVATION – JESUS CHRIST. EVERYONE ELSE, INCLUDING MARY WAS/IS REPLACEABLE.

We are all God’s children. As the best of fathers, do you really think God sees any of us as “replaceable”? Of course not! He wouldn’t be going through so much trouble to try and save us. Christians collaborate in the work of salvation, not because Christ is lacking and *needs* our help, but because He loves us! It is that love, the same love that makes us irreplaceable in His sight, that same love which eternally saves– that longs–yearns even to have His beloved (us) right there next to Him, sharing in His love and joy.

Rosary??? I don’t remember Jesus or his disciples praying the rosary!! Paul, John or Peter never prayed the rosary (according to scripture anyways).

Question. Should Christians only pray the prayers recorded in Scripture, should they not also pray from their own hearts?

God, thru His Spirit, lives in the heart of true believers by the blood of Jesus… it’s has nothing to do with Mary. Mary was human like you and me and when you die, you can’t do anything for anyone.

Then I wish never to die! I want to live forever, if death signifies the end of my love for others! But, no! Love is stronger than death. And love acts.
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Vince THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER IS JESUS CHRIST
THATS IT JESUS SAID IT DEAL WITH IT. IT IS THE FATHER SON AND THE HOLY SPRIT. GOD does not share his glory with no one. you should focus on GOD and no human. please dont pray to a man made statue i know you have read the 10 ten commandments–thou shall have no other GOD BEFORE ME.

But where does the Holy Spirit reside? In creatures. No mere creature has a right to call God Father, but it is the Holy Spirit, who has raised us up, beyond mere creatureliness and sits us with Jesus in the heavenly realms, where we cry out, “Abba! Father!”
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Travis Richardson The bible doesn’t say anywhere that we are to pray to Mary, this is an addition to The Holy Bible, which God forbides, no one should add or take away from the Word of God.

Well, then it would seem, allowing for no other argument in defense either way, that this is one of those things which Christians are free to do or not do. If the Bible truly does not say we should pray to Mary, then a Christian should be forced too. Likewise, if the Bible does not say we shouldn’t pray to Mary, then a Christian shouldn’t be forced not too. The not adding to Scripture (as you defined it) cuts both ways. Of course Catholics have a different understanding of what adding to Scripture implies.

Jesus never prayed to Mary and we are to immitate Him, also he says that anyone who does God’s will are His brother, mother, and sister,(Mathew 12:43-50)
And Mary became His mother precisely for that reason, Elizabeth cried out, “Blessed is she who believed that what the Lord said to her will be accomplished!” Jesus was not rebuking his mother, He wasn’t even addressing her, but the person who said, “Your mother and brothers are waiting outside to speak with you”.

Mary was an ordinary human being that succomb to sin just as any other sinner:
What does ordinary mean? No one is ordinary. There’s no such thing, each person is a one of a kind, never to be repeated—individual with their own one of a kind relationship to God. My relationship to Christ cannot be compared to yours, neither can yours be compared to mine and neither of us can be compared to Mary, whether regarding sin, growth in grace, or anything else belonging to our own particular relationship with God. Even if Mary was born with a propensity toward sin (I’m not saying she was, just saying “if”), that still doesn’t mean that she ever actual sinned. If this be the case, she wouldn’t be the first, babies, although they may be born with the “sin nature” cannot actually sin (according to Catholicism), because they have yet to reach the age of reason. BTW, within Catholic tradition, there are many saints who are said to have been born without the propensity to sin, St. Joseph and John the Baptist being two. The most pertinent difference to our discussion, is that Mary’s purification occured at conception, whereas St. Joseph’s and John the Baptist’s occured after conception.

There is only one who will help us to pray, which is in the Holy Spirit, Mary is not part of the Trinity; The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Salvation is in Christ and Christ alone. God Bless you all!

We are not a part of the Trinity according to the Divine nature. However, humanity has been assumed up into the Trinity, by virtue of Christ having taken on flesh.

Vincent

We should not pray to Mary or anyone else who has died.The Bible tell us that ALL who die in Christ are saints and “normal” people are no acception.
I fail to see where the Catholic Church would disagree with this.

The Scriptures also tell us that ALL has sinned including Mary so why pray to one who has sinned equal to one who hasn’t.
Even is she did sin (which we need to define ‘sin’ here), Mary will never be equal to God. The Catholic Church doesn’t claim that she is.

Mary cannot give the Gift of Salvation but only recieve it just as we do.
She did receive it, but she also gave it. A woman very much gives her child to the world. She conceives and carries it, delivers it, nurses and weans it, educates it, suffers, cries, and rejoices over it, and prepare it for it’s vocation in the world.

The ONLY one who should be prayed to is the one who payed the price for our sin who is the Lord Jesus.We have the same exact rights as Mary to pray to God but remember that there were Prophets before mary who spoke on behalf of God Most High that actually spoke for God.Though they [both mary and the prophets] were great Spiritual Giants we should not pray to any of our brothers or sisters in heaven and Mary or the Apostles are no acception.Hope this helps, God Bless

This isn’t about “rights” No one has to talk to anyone. You don’t have to call your mom on mother’s day or bring her flowers. We talk to our “heavenly” family, because they’re our family and we enjoy their company and even a sister can provide a shoulder to lean on, without taking anything away from God. And while Jesus did “pay the price”, let’s not forget all the sufferings, prayers, even deaths, of so many Christians, who went through what they went through to bring us the good news of salvation so that we would believe and thus be saved.

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Flora
.1 Timothy 2:5 (New International Version)
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

So according to the bible we shouldn´t pray to Virgin Mary, graven image or something like that because they don´t have power.

Not of themselves, but the power they possess, they possess by their union with the Holy Spirit.

We ask one another to pray for us in church, Bible study and in our every day prayers; so why should I not ask those closest to God right now to intercede on my behalf? If I can ask you, I can my mother in heaven.

In Luke 1:48 Mary prophesied, “From now on all ages call me blessed.”
If you never call her, how can you call her ‘blessed?’

In the Revelation to John (Chapter 12), God said a great sign appeared, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head…the dragon (vs. 9 Devil or Satan)waged war against the woman and all of her offspring (us).

No other woman in the Bible has been given by God, the place of honor He has given his mother and ours. None of this is by accident. If you look past our mother, you just may look past her Son.

Many still ask, Why pray to Mary? She is only the human mother of Jesus, who died as a normal woman on Earth.

We ask Mary to pray to Jesus for us. She is just interceding, kind of in the way a pastor might pray for us. In the Rosary we ask Mary to “Pray for us sinners.” And we know she is quite good at that.

Mary is definitely not above Jesus.

Its evident from her own words. In the Bible, Mary clearly spells out her role in eternity:-

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the lowly state of his maidservant;
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.
(Lk 1:46-49)

The Bible says Jesus is magnified by Mary’s soul. A soul is not limited by life on earth. Mary reinforces her eternal ministry by saying “all generations will call me blessed.” If the Bible intended Mary’s ministry to end with the birth of Jesus, or at Jesus’ death, or even at Mary’s death, I don’t think it would use that language.

A magnifying glass increases the object it is focused on, so being in relation to Mary’s eternal soul does not draw focus away from Jesus, it does the opposite. It magnifies him. This is the Bible’s word to the people of God.

Well, let it be known then, that we do have all ten Commandments.

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Nice answer to this one…And yeah edit? I mean i don’t want to start a new argument but I believe the Catholics didn’t edited anything from the bible. If we will take some look back over the history, the reformation started because it is not the reason of the faith, but for politics and so, they made some versions over that and changed the mass rituals over to replace what was the ORIGINAL. Sorry to say this but I am standing at my FAITH and I am raised as a ROMAN CATHOLIC with a firm belief. Hosanna in the Highest and Peace to His people on earth…

1) Mary acknowledged God as her savior – meaning she is a sinner needing a savior. if she was sinless then no need to call God savior.

2) Mary Mother of God

Jesus preexisted Mary so she cannot be the mother of GOd. If she is the mother of GOd who is the Father??? you say God then did God ever acknoledge Mary as His WIFE – Answer no!
But in the Bible God does acknoledge Israel as His wife and the Church as His bride. GOD THE FATHER NEVER ACKNOLEDGES MARY AS HIS WIFE SO SHE CANT BE THE MOTHER OF GOD!

Mother Mary is the mediatrix – a woman who is a mediator, go-between, intercessor. We only ask her to intercede or pray for us.

All the worship, adoration and prayer goes to the Almighty GOD. We only venerate Mary.

God will not hear the prayer of a sinner. So we rely on these mediators (saints and mother mary) to tell our needs to GOD.

In Luke 7:4, the healing of the Centurions Servant, they say the 2 good qualities of the man like helping others and building synagogue. Our intercessor remind God about these two i.e how we treat others and how good is our realtion to GOD (building the synagogue).

Mother Mary intercedes for us even before we ask her, as is evident from the miracle at Cana wedding.

Its simple : My Lord has called Mary His Mother throughout his life here. So why can’t I?

Rosary – We are only going through the incidents in our Lord Jesus life. The word will make us pure each time we recite it.

In olden days, people used to say psalms using beads. We can see rosary as the same prayer of this age, made more compact.

Georgy

Over the centuries, various popes have added to this smelly heap of unbiblical tradition about the mother of Jesus. It started early. Aware of the powerful draw of the pagan goddesses, they declared Mary “Mother of God,” at the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD.

They continued to morph her into goddess hood at the First Lateran Council in 649 by discovering her “perpetual virginity.” In 1854 they found that she was “immaculately conceived,” —born without sin. Next, her “assumption into heaven,” at the “end of her life” was revealed in 1950 by Pope Pius XII.

Ardent devotees to this goddess are now lobbying for an additional “Fifth Marian Dogma” (read tradition). However, this push to make her “Mother of the World,” is not new. It was started in the 1020s. When a pope gets the word from the “spirit” to proceed, she will push Jesus aside in some of His most basic roles: Redeemer, Advocate and Mediator.

As Mother of the World, she will have three essential new roles: co-redemptrix, mediatrix of all graces, and advocate. This simply means that she will share Christ’s role as redeemer; she will be in charge (mediator) of who receives God’s grace (favor); and she, as our advocate instead of Christ, will argue our case before God’s Throne of Judgment. But the Bible says that there is “one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus.” (See 1 Timothy 2:5.) Mary as mediator is blasphemy, ignoring the clear statement of scripture.

This move to continue making the humble Mary into a pagan goddess only proves that Revelation 17, 18 and 19 is right calling the Vatican a whore, a prostitute “church.”

Bible believers need to lovingly point out these unbiblical “dogmas” to the precious Roman Catholics who depend on the pope to get them into heaven.

Its not about what you beleive. It is about what those beleive, whom you trust.

See what they say…

In 1302 Pope Boniface said this in a letter to the Catholic Church:

Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.xii

Pope Pius V said this:

The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.xiii

Pope Pius XI said this about himself:

PIUS XI, Pontifex Maximus.xiv

Pope Leo XIII said this about the role of the Pope:

We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.xv

In 1512 Christopher Marcellus said this to Pope Julius II:

Take care that we lose not that salvation, that life and breath which thou hast given us, for thou art our shepherd, thou art our physician, thou art our governor, thou art our husbandman, thou art finally another God on earth (emphasis added).vi

The Gloss of Extravagantes of Pope John XXII says this:

To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical (emphasis added).vii

And speaking about the same document, Father A. Pereira said this:

It is quite certain that Popes have never disapproved or rejected this title “Lord God the Pope” for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome by Gregory XIII.viii

So if you wish to stand under their umbrellas, you will be charged with what they believe, not for just what you alone beleive.

Please read every scripture that i would present to you after asking the holy spirit to tell you if it is the truth or not.

1. Jesus Christ came to die for EVERY human being who has ever lived INCLUDING mary.John 3:16

2. No human being has ever been righteous INCLUDING mary Romans 3 verses 10.

3. Even mary the mother of Jesus needed the baptism of the Holy Spirit as the other disciples Acts 1 verses 14.

4. For ALL has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

God bless you.

Reuben,

There is ONE God, and ONE mediator between GOD and MAN, the MAN, Christ JESUS! Jesus said, I AM THE WAY, the TRUTH, and THE LIFE, NO ONE comes to the FATHER BUT through ME! Check your Bibles, folks. Praying to Mary, or ANYONE aside from JESUS CHRIST, and trusting in ANYONE aside of JESUS Christ is pure IDOLATRY! An insult to the amazing sacrifice Jesus made on our behalf. Catholics, please stop your idolatry and turn to Jesus, He is the ONLY MEDIATOR whom God hears! I say this weeping after reading many of these posts here….

Well, I’m not going to stop anything which brings me closer to Christ, which things such as the rosary does. As for trusting in anyone beside Jesus, we all know from experience that we all have placed our trust in many others besides Jesus, our mothers and fathers for instance. Prayer has a wider range of meaning than you seem to allow, as in, “Pray you, mark”-Ophilia, Hamlet, Act 4, Scene 5. Jesus most certainly is all those things you said, but as a Catholic, I would argue that your conclusions do not follow.

Nnamdi,

Hello. I just want to say something. i am not a preacher or pastor but i believe what that the bible is the only basis of truth concerning the christain faith.Can any one show me in the bible where the early christains prayed to Mary?

Why is this necessary? Firstly, Mary was alive for awhile at least after Christ ascended. Secondly, the Bible imo, is not a manual. The way it’s constructed says to me that it is a collection of various writing styles by various authors combating real issues they were facing. It’s not a single piece of theological work, meant to encompass everything theological for all time. If it did, it would have had to on a philosophical basis, rather than a historical basis. Think, “Summa” rather than “Bible”. The only way I can see for the Bible to encompass all things theological while at the same time remain firmly rooted in historical circumstance, would be to affirm that every error, misunderstanding, or circumstance, the Church will continue to face, was already faced prior to approx. 90 AD. That’s not to say Scripture can’t be our jumping off point, but to make it ‘answer’ every theological dilemma the Church has had to face for approx 1900 years, makes Scripture bear a theological weight, it needs not bear.

It never happened. Mary was a normal human being who just had the grace of God.

No one’s ‘normal’. I don’t believe there’s any such thing. Every individual is one of a kind-unique.

She was not More Holy or righteous, she herself needed Jesus to make heaven.Remember that there is no one righteous not even ONE.

Of course she needed Jesus ‘to make heaven.’ No Catholic would deny that.

Please read every scripture that i would present to you after asking the holy spirit to tell you if it is the truth or not.

1. Jesus Christ came to die for EVERY human being who has ever lived INCLUDING mary.John 3:16

Yes.

2. No human being has ever been righteous INCLUDING mary Romans 3 verses 10.

Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.(Matt 1:19) There are many other ‘righteous’ individuals named in Scripture.

3. Even mary the mother of Jesus needed the baptism of the Holy Spirit as the other disciples Acts 1 verses 14.

Perhaps. I’m not sure what you mean by ‘baptism of the Holy Spirit’, so I can’t answer definitively.

4. For ALL has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

I’ve always been leery of applying this verse to every single person without exception. Even if Mary were the greatest sinner in the world, we still have others to contend with, such as infants. Contextually, it seems more likely that Paul is saying that not only are Gentiles sinners, but Jews too. Many Jews did not consider themselves ‘sinners’ because in their minds they were law obedient, whereas Gentiles and others (eg less informed Jews)were considered sinners on account of not following the law. Remember the not so pleasant conversation between the Pharisees and the man born blind in John 9? Rom 2:17-21:’Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God;if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law;if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark,an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself?

Le,

Can someone please tell me where you get the notion that Mary was also born a virgin birth?

Mary was not born from a virgin. She was born from the conjugal union of her mother and father. Who said she was?

Also, there have been many arguments that praying to Mary is just an intercession. So – does that increase your chances of getting your prayers answered?

God’s going to take care of us, no matter what. He doesn’t need us to tell Him what we need, He already knows. Prayer is not about ‘informing God’ or asking Mary to ‘inform God’ with the idea that God’s more likely to do what we want if Mary asks Him. Prayer is an invitation to commune with God and in and through God, each other. Prayer need be nothing other than just sitting still and listening.

Why not pray to the source – God/Jesus? Why do you need her to intercede for you? Yes, we ask our friends to pray for us but – we also pray to God.

It’s not a need in any sort of negative sense, as if God were less likely to hear our prayers if Mary didn’t pray for us. It’s about love. Catholics love those in heaven and it brings them great joy to be able to express that love in all sorts of ways, like talking with them and simply being in their presence.

We do not pray to our friends to pray to God. If you read revelations, you will note the timing of the new testament, old testament and tribulation saints and their roles in heaven.

I’m not sure what the latter means. Regarding the former, one definition of praying is asking/beseeching. So when Catholic use the term ‘pray’, in relation to the saints, they’re not using it in the sense of adoration (which is reserved for God alone), they’re using it in it’s more broader and if we lived 500-300 years ago, more common sense. I think some of the difficulty lies in linguistics. We no longer use the term ‘pray’ or any of its derivatives, in ways we use too. We’ve narrowed it down to a very strict definition, ie, ‘worship of God’. Which is really odd when you think about it, as it would mean that Ophelia was worshipping Queen Gertrude (see above) or I’m worshipping you, when I say, ‘I pray you, deliver this letter for me’.

Why is Mary any more important than Abraham?

Define important.

As noted before, she is an instrument of God. Just like Noah, Moses, David, the prophets etc. Does the catholic church emphasize praying through them? Asking them to intercede? If your answer is yes, then why is it that Mary is above them? Why is Noah not as revered as Mary? Without Noah, God would have wiped out mankind therefore, no David, no Mary, nobody.

Since my answer is ‘yes’, I would say this:

Mary is in a sense ‘above them’, but only because she is ‘below them’, that is, she considers herself that hand-maid of God and this sense of servitude she possesses extends to her fellow human beings (eg.Elizabeth). Jesus said whoever wants to become great must become the very least. For Catholics, Mary’s littleness, her obscurity, her humility is what makes her great. A ‘modern’ day example of this, is St. Therese (called the Little Flower). She is one of the most beloved saints in the Catholic Church and yet she lived her life in littleness, in childlike simplicity. Her diary which we have today has inspired many to imitate her life, which is commonly known now as, ‘The Little Way Of St. Therese’. Her love for Jesus was absolutely profound. I highly recommend reading her diary.

Yes, she gave birth to the son of God. But do you truly believe that ‘if’ she said no, Jesus would not be born? God would have ensured that His plan went through.

If Mary had said no (which, I don’t believe she would have, given that she was predestined for this very thing), then the girl who did respond in faith and humility to God’s invitation, would be the girl Catholics love.

I think Catholics have to be very careful about what they say the role of Mary is. She is human. She was used by God in a mighty way. She was a sinner (she had to be, only Jesus was sinless). She died and went to heaven. Hmmm….sounds a lot like Abraham, Moses, Joseph, Mother Theresa, Billy Graham, Michael W. Smith. Her role happened to be the one who gave birth do Jesus. For God to appear in the flesh, SOMEONE had to. For God to free his people from slavery in Egypt, Moses was used, again – SOMEONE had to.

If you pray – pray to God. Put your emphasis on God and Jesus. No one else matters.

I think it’s also important that nonCatholics have a good handle on Catholic theology as a whole. NonCatholics can talk about Mary all day long and criticize Catholics for their supposed ‘marian’ excesses, but until they have a working knowledge of things such as predestination, salvation, authority, sacraments, the atonement and person of Jesus ect. from a Catholic viewpoint, the ‘Catholic Mary’ will always seem excessive, unbiblical ect. These things must be understood first, otherwise the Catholic understanding of Mary and the good God has done for her will remain an enigma.

PAX

Dear non believers of Mary,

1. It was through the most holy Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that He has to reign in the world.

2. Mary was singulary hidden throughout her life. It is on this account that the Holy Ghost and the Church call her Alma Mater – “Mother secret and hidden”. Her humility was so profound that she had no inclination on earth more powerful or more constant than that of hiding herself, from herself as well as from every other creature, so as to be known to God only.

3. He heard her prayers when she begged to be hidden, to be humbled and to be treated as in all respects poor and of no account. He took pleasure in hiding her from all human creatures, in her conception, in her birth, in her life, in her mysteries, and in her resurrection and Assumption. Even her parents did not know her, and the angels often asked one another: “Who is that?” (Cant. 3:6; 8:5) because the Most High either had hidden her from them, or if He did reveal anything, it was nothing compared to what He kept undisclosed.

4. God the Father consented that she should work no miracle, at least no public one, during her life, although He had given her the power to do so. God the Son consented that she should hardly ever speak, though He had communicated His widom to her.
God the Holy Ghost, though she was His faithful spouse, consented that His Apostles and Evangelists should speak very little of her, and no more than was necessary to MAKE JESUS CHRIST KNOWN.

Mary is the sublime materpiece of the Most High, the, knowledge and possession of which He has reserved to HIMSELF. Mary is the admirable Mother of the Son, who took pleasure in humbling and concealing her during her life in order to favor her humility, calling her by the name of “woman”, as if she were a stranger, although in His heart He esteemed and loved her above all angels and all men. Mary is the “sealed fountain”, the faithful spouse of the Holy Ghost, to whom He alone has access. Mary is the sanctuary and the resting place of the Holy Trinity, where God dwells more magnificently and more divinely than in any other place in the universe, including His dwelling between the Cherubs and Seraphins. Nor is any creature, no matter how, pure, allowed to enter into that sanctuary except by means of a great and special privilege.

6. I say with the saints, divine Mary is the terrestrial paradise of the New Adam, where He was made flesh by the power of the Holy Ghost, in order to work there incomprehensible marvels. She is the grand and divine world of God, where there are unspeakable beauties and treasures. She is the magnificence of the Most High, where He hid, as in her bosom, His only Son, and in Him all that is most excellent and most precious. God has wrought in this admirable creature, as she herself had to acknowledge, in spite of her profound humility: ” He that is mighty hath done great things to me.” The world knows them not, because it is both incapable and unworthy of such knowledge.

7. The saints have said admirable things of this holy city of God; and, as they themselves avow, they were never more eloquent and more content than when they spoke of her. Yet, after all they have said,they cry out that the degree of her merits, which she has raised up to the throne of the Divinity, cannot be fully seen; that the breadth of her charity, which is broader than the earth, is in truth immeasurable; that the length of her power, which she exercises even over God Himself, is incomprehensible; and finally, that the depth of her humility, and of all her virtues and graces, is an abyss which can never be sounded.

O incomprehensible height! O unspeakable breadth! O immeasurable length! O impenetrable abyss!

Do you really think Mary has the power to do what’s written on this so called… 15 promises of Mary? All I remembered is the two greatest commandments of Jesus( where all the laws of the prophets hangs on this two commandments).And this is (first)To love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might and (second)love your neighbor as yourself! And let me tell you this…(with all my conviction)…THERE IS NO PURGATORY! We have only two destination…whether in Heaven…or in hell! Start reading your Bible and you cannot be deceived by man’s own doctrine!Jesus Loves You!

Now, first Jesus is speaking about the possibility of mortally sinning by being angry with your brother. If one is angry, he is liable to judgment. So, we see the background to the passage is that it is speaking about how one will be judged by God, and subject to hell. In addition, He also says that we must be reconciled with our brother. Now, we see that in order to have eternal life, we must love our brother. We can only achieve eternal life if we have love. If we do not love our brother, Jesus says we will be liable to going to hell (this is affirmed also in 1 John 3:14-15, where it says one who hates his brother will not have eternal life). However, if there is a dispute with a brother, that is not to the same extent as mentioned in v. 22, Jesus next speaks of a different judgment place from that of v. 22 the fires of hell). Now, Jesus commands that one is to make friends quickly with the accuser. Thus, if these type of sins are not taken care of, one will have to face a judge. Now of course who is the judge except God? Thus, this is specifically about judgment before God. And then Jesus says, ‘you will be put in prison’, no one will get out of that prison, until one has ‘paid the last penny’. Since the context is judgment, here, Jesus thus refers to an intermediate state in v. 25-26, that is not hell. This is a place where one would be released from prison. Now, if he was speaking about hell, we know that there is no relief at all. Jesus condemns those to eternal condemnation with eternal punishment (Mt. 25:41, 46, cf., Mt. 5:22). There is no release from prison in hell. One can never ‘get out’ of hell. In heaven there is no punishment at all or any need to ‘get out.’ Thus, the place where one can ‘get out’ of prison, is purgatory.

Nothing unclean will enter the kingdom of heaven. Rev. 21:27:
Those who die in mortal sin, will not go to heaven. Those who die in God’s grace, but still with sins on their soul, will go to purgatory.

One time when Gertrude was praying with great fervor for the Holy souls, she asked Our Lord how many Souls His mercy would release, He answered: “My love urges Me to release the Poor Souls. If a beneficent king leaves his guilty friend in prison for justice’s sake, he awaits with longing for one of his nobles to plead for the prisoner and to offer something for his release. Then the king joyfully, sets him free. Similarly, I accept with highest pleasure what is offered to Me for the Poor Souls, for I long inexpressibly to have near Me those for whom I paid so great a price. By the prayers of thy loving soul, I am induced to free a prisoner from Purgatory as often as thou dost move thy tongue to utter a word of prayer!”

Our Savior taught Gertrude for whom she should most ardently pray for. On the day when the community commemorated in common the death of their parents, Gertrude saw the happy souls ascend the darkness of Purgatory like sparks from a flame. She asked Our Lord if all these were relatives. He answered: “I am thy nearest relative, thy father and thy mother. Therefore, My special friends are thy nearest relatives, and these are among those whom I have liberated.”

Our Lord told St. Gertrude the Great that the following prayer would release 1,000 Souls from Purgatory each time it is said. The prayer was later extended to include living sinners as well…

“ETERNAL FATHER, I OFFER THEE THE MOST PRECIOUS BLOOD OF THY DIVINE SON, JESUS, IN UNION WITH THE MASSES SAID THROUGHOUT THE WORLD TODAY, FOR ALL THE HOLY SOULS IN PURGATORY, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal Church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen.”

Pray for Souls in Purgatory(including our relatives, friends, and neighbor) when they go to heaven they won’t forget us. If you don’t pray for them you don’t love as yourseft.

1. I will give them all the graces necessary for their state of life.
2. I will give peace in their families.
3. I will console them in all their troubles.
4. They shall find in my Heart an assured refuge during life and especially at the hour of death.
5. I will pour abundant blessings on all their undertakings.
6. Sinners shall find in my Heart the source and infinite ocean of mercy.
7. Tepid souls shall become fervent.
8. Fervent souls shall speedily rise to great perfection.
9. I will bless the homes in which the image of my Sacred Heart shall be exposed and honored.
10. I will give to priests the power to touch the most hardened hearts.
11. Those who propagate this devotion shall have their name written in my Heart and it shall never be effaced.
12. The All-Powerful Love of my Heart will grant to all those who shall receive Communion on the First Friday of nine consecutive months the grace of final repentance; they shall not die under my displeasure, nor without receiving the Sacraments; my Heart shall be their assured refuge at that last hour.

WHO TOLD WE ALL DOESN’T RESPECT MARY WHO WHERE THE MOTHER OF JESUS. WE ALL RESPECT ALL THE MOTHER OVER THE WORLD INCLUDING YOUR MOTHER ALSO BUT UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT WHAT I HAVE GIVEN IN THE ABOVE ARTICLE WHO IS THE REAL LIVING GOD, HERE AGAIN I REPEAT TO YOU THE LIVING GOD. FIRST TRY TO ANSWER THE SIMPLE QUESTIONS WHAT I HAVE ASKED IN MY ARTICLE. OK LET IT BE.

(1)ARE U TAKING YOUR BIBLE TO THE CHURCH?
(2)ARE YOU READING THE BIBLE AT MORNING AND NIGHT?
(3)DO YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE?
(4)DO YOU GOT THE HOLY SPIRIT GIVEN BY THE JESUS NOT BY MARY?
(5)HAVE YOU GOT BAPTIZED?AND AT WHICH AGE NOT IN CHILDHOOD OR A BABY?
(6)AT WHAT AGE THE JESUS GET BAPTIZED?.

I AM NOT ASKING YOU ANY CRITICAL QUESTIONS ONLY SIMPLE QUESTIONS PLEASE ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS AND THE ABOVE ARTICLE QUESTIONS WITH NOT YOUR SAKE AND MY OR MARY SAKE IF YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE AND JESUS ANSWER IT ON THEIR SAKE AFTER ANSWERING THIS YOU SAY ME MERRY CHRISTMAS.

PRAISE THE LORD
IN THE NAME OF FATHER THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.

AMEN

1.WHO GAVE THE BIBLE TO THE WORLD JESUS OR MARY?

1) Well, Moses, then various Scribes, David, Solomon, various prophets, Matthew the apostle, probably John-Mark, Luke a doctor, and John the apostle, Peter, James and whoever wrote for Paul. I probably forgot someone in there. Anyhow, all by the grace of God. Mary, Jesus, the patriarchs (probably) and Paul all contributed to the oral tradition, but none of them wrote it down. Others did it for them.

2.WHO CREATED THE WORLD?

2) The Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

3.WHERE WAS MARY WHEN THE LORD WAS CREATING THE WORLD?

3) In His heart and mind.

4.HOW DID THE VIRGIN MARY GET THE CHILD HERSELF?

4) Through her humility and and the Holy Spirit with whom she cooperated in order to carry, wean and bring the Child up. St. Joseph helped too.

5.WHO SENT THE GABRIEL ANGEL TO MARY?

5) Ultimately God.

6.WHY COULDN’T MARY SAVE JESUS FROM THE CRUCIFIXION?

6) It wasn’t God’s will. If it were God’s will, Mary would have (albeit by some miracle), for nothing is impossible with God and he can enable anyone to do anything. Similiarly, Jesus could have saved Himself, but His will was the Father’s-that He should remain on the cross, dying for the whole world (Mary included). Remember: “‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘but he can’t save himself! He’s the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.’” Matt 27:42. I don’t think who could have saved who from the crucifixion is a very good argument.

7.AFTER JESUS ROSEN FROM THE DEATH WHAT DID HE TOLD DOES HE TOLD TO WORSHIP MARY?

7) Can you rephrase that? Thanks.

8.OK WHO IS GOING TO GIVE U THE JUDGEMENT DAY?

8) I don’t understand what you mean by, ‘Give us the Judgment Day’.

9.FROM ADAM TO THE PERIOD OF JOSEPH AND NOW WHO HAD SAVED ALL OF US MARY OR JESUS?

9) God the Father in Christ, through the Holy Spirit saves without question and has called each of us to cooperate in bringing that salvation to others, through prayer, teaching, good work, suffering, sometimes even death.

10.OK DON’T BELIEVE ANY FOLK STORY OR TALES ABOUT MARY SHE IS THE RESPECTABLE LADY BUT NOT GOD.

10) Please understand (and this pertains to all), Mary is not God. She never was and never will be. Neither has the Catholic Church ever…and I mean ever claimed she was God. Do you remember the Athanasian Creed you use to pray as a Catholic? How did it start? It started with, “I believe in One God…”

SO BELIEVE THE ONE AND ONLY JESUS THE LORD OF US.

11) Define, ‘believe’.

(1.)Should we worship Mary?

12) No!

While all Roman Catholics do not necessarily worship Mary, the fact that many pray to Mary (which is an act of worship and no where justified in Scripture)

13) This was already addressed in my previous post. As an aside, I finally got to see the newest version of ‘The Christmas Carol’ starring Jim Carry. In speaking to the ‘Spirit of Christmas Yet To Come’, Scrooged said, ‘Pray spirit tell me…’ Now, was he worshipping this spirit? No. He was entreating him. He wanted to know whether the things the spirit showed him were, ‘things that will be or things that might be.’ The point is, the term ‘pray’ has more than one meaning in the English language.

and give her titles which resemble those given to Jesus Christ including the idea of mediatorship, this question and others related to Mary have been included under this heading.

14) All Christians are mediators, in, with and by the power of the One Mediator, Jesus Christ. Jesus’ role as Mediator springs in part from His hypostatic union (the union of God and Man). That’s not all, because He assumed true human flesh, flesh common to all people and united it with His divine person,(His humanity thus shares in the divine attributes while remaining perfectly human), all who have been born of the Spirit, as members of Christ’s Body, has a share in His divine attributes. Hence, He sent them out into the world saying, “Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give” Matt. 10:8. Now can mere men do such things? No. It is not within human nature to have such power. Are they then God(s)? No. They were men as St. Paul testifies after a crowd in Lystra thought he was a god for healing a crippled man. (Acts 14:8-18) What then? Peter gives us the answer when he says, “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.” (2 Peter 1:3-4)

(2.)Should we pray to Mary???

15) There is a difference in
asking, ‘Should…we do something’ and ‘May…we do something’. A person can live out their entire life, never ask Mary for anything and still be saved.

Roman Catholics believe that Mary, the mother of Jesus, remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and was sinless all of her life. She is worshiped in the Catholic church as the “Mother of God” and the “Queen of Heaven.” St. Bernard stated that she was crowned “Queen of Heaven” by God the Father, and that she currently sits upon a throne in Heaven making intercession for Christians.

16) All Christians will be crowned and seated with Christ on His throne. “To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne”. Rev 3:21. What else would you call a woman enthroned? Princess? Empress? HRH? Queen? What if this woman were enthroned in England? HRH, The Queen of England. Now, what if she were enthroned in heaven? The Queen of Heaven. I hope to be a queen of heaven…or at least a princess…some day. Catholics call Mary, ‘Queen of Heaven’, because Heaven is the country wherein she sits with Christ upon His throne, endowed with a crown that will never fade.

The Bible teaches otherwise. In the Bible, Mary was a sinner just like the rest of us. She said herself that she needed a “Saviour” (Lk. 1:47), and she even had to offer a sacrifice for her sins in Luke 2:24.

17) Of course she needed a Saviour, but it does not follow that she first sinned. If you were walking in a park unaware that a robber was lurking in the bushes and God prevented that robber from attacking you, would He be any less your Saviour? Or would He be more of a Saviour to first allow the robber to attack and mug you, then after the robber was gone, dress your wounds, dust you off and give you a fifty with an offer to drive you to the police station to fill out a report so you could get your stolen goods back? Mary is an outstanding example, but she is an example of what God does for all of us day in and day out. He alone knows how many potential traps are out there waiting for us, while we blissfully go about our day unaware of all He is saving us from. God never ceases to be our Saviour. Whether we ask for forgiveness for sins already done or ask that He, ‘lead us not into temptation…’, His saving grace is always at work.

Jesus was only her “firstborn” son, according to Matthew 1:25, because she later had other children as well (Mt. 13:55; Gal. 1:19; Psa. 69:8).

18) The term, ‘firstborn’ refers back to the Mosaic Law, not forward to subsequent children Mary might have (even if she had twenty). When Joseph and Mary took the Child to Jerusalem to present Him before the Lord, they had to ‘buy back’ the Child, since by default, He belonged to God. “for all the firstborn are mine. When I struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, I set apart for myself every firstborn in Israel, whether man or animal. They are to be mine. I am the LORD.” (Num 18:15) . If an Israelite woman bore a male child, had a complicated delivery so that she couldn’t bear any more children, her child would still fall under the ‘firstborn laws’, that is, he would still be considered her firstborn under the Law.
Regarding the other passages you cited (ie Mt 13:55, Gal 1:19, Psa. 69:8) , can you elaborate as to why you think they imply Mary had other children? I think I have a general idea, but I want to make sure. Thanks.

There’s only ONE mediator between God and men, and it isn’t Mary (I Tim. 2:5).

19) See above (9,14). As an aside, looking at the matter from an anthropological and psychological point of view, ‘mother’ and ‘mediatrix’ are closely interconnected. So much so as to be identical in certain cases. Applying this general rule to Mary specifically, it is at least linguistically possible to call her the Mother (Mediatrix) of Grace (Grace=Christ, “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.” Jn 1:14)

The last time we hear from Mary in the Bible she is praying WITH the disciples, not being prayed to BY the disciples (Acts 1:14).

20) So no one talked to her then, asked questions, or beseeched her to pray for them?

The Bible never exalts Mary above anyone else. Neither should we.

21) Define ‘exalt’ please.

Worship is something that is to be restricted to God alone. As the angel stressed when John fell at his feet in appreciation for the revelation he had seen and received, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book; worship God” (See Rev. 19:10; 22:9). Mary is not God

22) Yes. I thoroughly agree.

and her exaltation in the Catholic church has no foundation in Scripture. While we may and should appreciate the ministry of men and women, they are only instruments used of God for His glory. Christ alone is our mediator. Paul clearly points this out in 1 Timothy 2:3-6.

See above (9,14,16). We may have to delve into 1 Timothy 2:3-6 indepth.

3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony borne at the proper time.

23) Okay…now we’re delving. Let’s cite a little more: “I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone—for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles. ” 1 Tim 2:1-7
Taking a preliminary look at this passage, several points come to mind. One, that we are urged to make intercession for everyone. Two, we are to do ‘this’ because it pleases God. Three, there is a connection between our intercessions and God’s desire that all be saved and come to know the truth. Fourth, all this is predicated on the fact that there is One mediator between God and Man, who gave himself as a ransom. Regarding this last point, the term, ‘One’ seems to point not only to the uniqueness of Christ’s mission, but to it’s unitive effect. There are analogies from Scripture we can draw. Firstly, God is One, but He is not one person, but three persons-ie He’s unique while at the same time unitive (His uniquiness does not negate His unity). In John 17:22-23, Christ makes a connection between this oneness of God and the oneness of his followers with Him and with one another, “I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me”.

Though Mary was the mother of the humanity of Jesus, a miracle accomplished by the Holy Spirit, she was not the mother of God. As God, Christ is eternal and had no mother or beginning (see John 1:1f). In essence, worshipping Mary is a form of idolatry. In the New Testament, Mary is never mentioned in a way that exalts her as is done in Catholicism.

24) According to this logic, no one has a mother then, since our spirits are the sole creation of God and not the propagation of a human mother. Although our spirits are not pre-eternal, they are distinct and not a part of human procreation. They come from God alone.

(1) The Bible says nothing about Mary ascending into heaven in some special way. She went to heaven as all do through faith in Christ as God’s Son who died for our sin, including hers.

25) Can you clarify what you mean by, ‘some special way’ as opposed to, ‘as all do through faith…’? Thanks.

(2) The conception of Jesus, was by the Holy Spirit as explained in Matthew 1:20 and Luke 1:35. Other than stating this was a miracle work of the Holy Spirit, we are given no details

26) How is this significant to this discussion?

(3) In Luke 1:28, Mary is called “favored one” (literally, “endowed or filled with grace”) but only in the sense that God, by grace, chose her to be the human mother who wouldgive birth to the Christ child. This same idea and word is used of all believers in Ephesians 1:6. We have all been endowed with grace. To say any more than this is to add to what the text of Scripture says.

27) Yes, we are all endowed with grace. What have you heard that makes you think Catholics add to what Scripture says in regards to all being ‘endowed with grace’?

(3) Mary the Mother of Jesus : Should we worship or reverence her?

28) Reverence and worship are two totally different things. No, we should not worship her, but we ought to show due reverence toward her. For that matter, everyone has the right to be shown the reverence due them. There is no one on this planet whom we ought not revere.

Many times Catholics ask, “Why don’t Protestants worship Mary?” They tell us, “You have no respect for the mother of God.” Our answer is very simple, “we respect all women, especially godly Christian women, but we do not worship anybody that is not God himself”. We reserve this reverence and honor only for God.

29) I have never heard a Catholic ask, “Why don’t Protestants worship Mary?”
Insofar as anyone thinks Mary ought to be worshipped, to that extent, they are more pagan than Catholic, (if by ‘worship’, they mean what we mean).

————–(Edited. The portion that was here dealt with the exclusive worship of God alone. As a Catholic, I agree. We should not worship anyone other than God. Regarding the use of images, they are not to be worshipped either. However, there are appropriate uses of images. God made use of them in the Temple. In Solomon’s day, ” in the inner sanctuary he (Solomon) made a pair of cherubim of olive wood, each ten cubits high. One wing of the first cherub was five cubits long, and the other wing five cubits—ten cubits from wing tip to wing tip. The second cherub also measured ten cubits, for the two cherubim were identical in size and shape. The height of each cherub was ten cubits. He placed the cherubim inside the innermost room of the temple, with their wings spread out. The wing of one cherub touched one wall, while the wing of the other touched the other wall, and their wings touched each other in the middle of the room. He overlaid the cherubim with gold.” (1 Kings 6:23-28). That is a gigantic set of ‘images’! At 15 some odd feet, they would have been taller than the ceiling in most people’s houses, nearly twice the height. And this doesn’t even include all the other ‘images’ which were in the Temple.
(As an aside, what about Christmas and Easter plays or films depicting the life of Christ?)——–

Worship or Reverence?
While the Roman Catholic Church says there is a great difference between worship given to God, and the reverence that they give to the saints and to Mary, the effect is the same. They bow the knee before representations of these “non-God” images, placing flowers and candles (which are a type of sacrifice for cheap people) and render service to honor and respect the images which are clearly prohibited by God.

Would you object to kneeling at a grave or placing flowers at the headstone? I’m just trying to understand your thought process. Forgive me, if my questions come across as taunting.

The prohibitions of God use the words “give honor” and “serve” (Roman 1.25). To give honor means to worship or reverence which means the same thing.

30) “Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise— “that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.” Eph. 6:1-3

It is to serve giving religious respect and glory to someone or something such as services in honor of that person, or giving sacrifices. Service speaks of honor. Also the Bible uses the phrase “to bow down before” (Exo 34:14) or to kneel (Mat 4:9) before something or somebody. Therefore no figure neither created by human hands nor found naturally in the world is to be or represent God. We worship God spiritually because God is a spirit.

31) Should we then not bow before the physical/natural/fleshy Christ?

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

32) See above(31).

Communication with the Dead
Deu 18:9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer (consulter of the dead). 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
The Bible is very clear on this point, that anyone who tries to communicate with the dead is actually practicing witchcraft. Then praying to Mary or the saints (which are dead humans) is witchcraft, and this is prohibited by God.
Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
God clearly says that his people should seek God in their prayers, not seek out the dead. If anyone teaches anything else, then “there is no light in them,” or they do not understand what God is trying to tell them. Praying or communicating in any way to the dead is directly opposite of what God commands us to do. This is what the Roman Catholic Church teaches as basic Catholic doctrine. One should flee from people who promote doctrines and practices opposite of what God commands.

32) This is where we differ. Catholics do not consider those who have gone before us, as dead. “But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” Matt 22:31-32 . These patriarchs live within the ever-present, ever-living ‘I Am’ of God. In other words, they are alive here and now. For, God did not say, “I was the God of Abraham….” or, “I will be the God of Jacob…sometime in the future (at the, ‘Last Day’)”. If they were dead, God would not be their God, since He is only the God of the living. It might be useful to skim through the OT, especially Ecc. and Psalms. In contrast to Matt 22:31-32, the ‘authors’ of the these books talks extensively about the relation of the actual dead to God (e.g. they do not worship God ect.)

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Only through the mediator Jesus do we have free access to God, to his mercy and grace, and access to salvation. There is every reason to come to Jesus directly, and no reason to seek first or alternatively Mary or the saints. We should note that prayers to Mary are like trying to bribe Jesus because supposedly he cannot refuse his mother. See Deu 10:17; 2Chro 19:7; and John 14:6.

33) He refuses no one, who asks according to His will, “This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.”1 John 5:14-15 Catholics believe Mary always asks in conformity with God’s will, ergo, He doesn’t refuse her, contrary to most of us, who are still learning what God’s will is (hence the proverbial, “Unanswered Prayers” or “Sometimes God Just Says, ‘No’”). Something which ought to be mentioned at this point (actually, I should have mentioned it earlier), is that when Catholics approach Christ in prayer, they are well aware, that Christ is not alone, but is surrounded by His saints and angels. So even if we speak with Christ directly, heaven is there with Him and if we speak to heaven, Christ is there with them. For Catholics there is no either/or (as in, ‘It’s either Christ or it’s someone else (and therefore not Christ)’). The unity between Christ and His Church is so strong, that practically speaking, to approach one, is to approach the other, “But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.” Heb 12:18-24 . Remember Christ’s prayer, that His followers be one as He and the Father are one? Well, does approaching Christ, distract from approaching the Father directly? No. He goes onto say, that His followers are in Him as He is in the Father. That’s a profound oneness. Think about it. A Christian is one with Christ as Christ is one with the Father. We reside in Christ as He resides in the Father. When one thinks of the unity of the Trinity and applies this unity to our relationship with Christ and with one another…well…no words can express…no mind can truly comprehend the absolute profundity of that.

Is Mary the Mother of God?
Simply put, no. For somebody to be the mother of somebody else, there are two ways of establishing this relationship: (1) the woman physically brings the person into being, or (2) the parents adopt the child (already existing independently before the child exists). If Mary gave birth to God, then we also need to affirm that Mary existed before God, which is not true. Jesus existed in his divinity before Mary and made appearances in the Old Testament, and Mary only gave birth to the humanity of Jesus. She had nothing to do with his divinity. It is incorrect to say that Mary is the “mother of God” because that implies her pre-existence before God, really making her greater than God and in authority over God, which is impossible.

34) While God, both in regards to His divine nature and in regards to His existance as three co-equal persons, pre-exists Mary, from all eternity, it does not follow that she is therefore the mother of His humanity only. While it is true that He assumed His humanity and not His divinity from Mary (your point-I think), that humanity belongs to a divine person. Catholics believe Mary is the mother of God in the same way they might say, “God was born in Bethlehem” or “The Divine Child, Jesus” or “God became incarnate”. Although God the Son, existed before Bethlehem, before becoming a Child, before becoming incarnate, He, God (in time) was born (according to the flesh) in Bethlehem, became a Child, and was incarnate. In other words, when God took on flesh, he took on everything (except sin) that comes with it, including a Mother. “But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons”. Gal 4:4-5

The Catholic Church teaches that Mary is actually in the Trinity, that she is “the complement of the Trinity,

35) I’m not sure what you mean by ‘in the Trinity’.

Daughter of God the Father, Mother of God the Son, and wife of the Holy Spirit” – Hebdomas Mariana.

36) The same can be said for Zion (and the Church). Throughout Scripture, Zion is designated the wife/bride of God, mother of the Son(s) of God and so on and so forth. In fact, the same can be said of us as well.

Mary is “the center of the universe” – Salazar.

37) I can’t respond to this as I am unaware of it’s context.

DeMontfort says “Jesus Christ has given her grace touching his Majesty, all rights and privileges that (Jesus) naturally possesses by nature.” This makes her another Jesus.

38) Again, the same can be said of us as well. We possess by grace, what Jesus possesses by nature, through the union of our common humanity with the divine nature in Christ (as was mentioned above). “So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God”. 1 Cor 3:21-22.

“If there is any hope in us, any grace, any salvation, it comes to us by her, because thus is the will of God, who has desired that we have everything through Mary.” Pope Pius IX Ep Evangel 1849 B.C. Mary is “co-redeemer of the human race together with her Son, Jesus Christ, our Lord.” Catholic book, “Mary, the Co-Redeemer.”

39) See above (9,14,16). Again, we are all mediators and co-redeemers with Christ. The idea that Mary is Co-redeemer and Mediatrix does not stem from an over-estimation of Mary. It stems from what Catholic believe about all Christians (Mary included).

The Catholics make Mary to have a position identical to God, and the prerogative of providing salvation aside from Jesus, making Mary an idol, a false god in competition with the true God, exactly what God prohibits.
40) There needs to be a better understanding of the fundamentals of the Catholic faith. What the Catholic Church believes about Mary is firmly rooted in what she (the Catholic Church), believes about Christ and Christians (in general).

Is Mary the Queen of Heaven?
The expression “Queen of Heaven” occurs in the Bible only in Jeremiah 7:18; 44:17-25. It is a false goddess that Israel worshipped (served) in their idolatry, for which God punished them. To identify Mary with this “Queen of Heaven” is to identify her with a false religion prohibited by God.

41) Catholics don’t identify her ‘with this Queen of Heaven’. Mary, as ‘Queen of Heaven’ bears no theological semblance to what God had condemned in Jeremiah’s day. The above argument is like saying, “Faith alone” occurs only once, in James 2:24. Per James 2:24, it does not justify, is dead, ect. Therefore any Christian who claims that we are “justified by ‘faith alone’”, is in serious error-contra to Scripture. I’ve heard some Catholics argue in just this fashion. And to this Catholic, it’s one of the most annoying arguments anyone could make. They are wrong to try to identify Luther’s ‘faith alone’ with the ‘faith alone’ James condemns. They’re two totally different things-not even in the same universe, despite the one-to-one wording.

In Christ.

(I found some of the quotes that vijay made very interesting..(the one thing I can’t get past was one Monica made about the length of Mary’s power exercising power, even over God. A lot of this must be understand in poetic, literary terms I’m afraid folks (Protestant brothers and sisters).. but that one I can’t get over/understand. There truly was a mystery going on there/my eyes have been opened in many ways by things people have said on both sides. At the end of the day, I believe one must come down oN.. Jesus’ prayer, “that they might be one..”

Yes, the Catholic [Christian] church believes that all Christians are mystically linked through two of the Sacraments, (marriage), and Baptism..and will be brought together as one again, `cause, let’s face it../that was the Master’s prayer, and we will all be, under Him. We must be! “Tonight, we can be as one.. Tonight! ……” `till then, we should be on about His work, Amen?? `so he doesn’t find us as wicked and lazy servants! I’ve found some beliefs again, impossible to escape when you think about their arguments.. (against contraception, etc..), Jesus’ words “unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no part in me” basically..oR my Kingdom../no life in you essentially.. These words cannot be denied, and the idea, thought (on a philosophical basis likE.. how do I!/wE say to God, all-powerful.. nO!! I wiLL not be a gatekeeper for your life to come through, etc.. ……I! will play God, exercise authority over which egg comes to life, etc../separating it outside of the love.. I mean from a financial/practical aspect.. (if it became a problem, I can’t pretend to know my solution..(natural family planning/calendar method, etc..)/abstinence (going forward..) buT.. again, from the perspective of teaching/doctrine saying no to God in this regard makes no sense! `does not stand to reason!

I am well familiar with the Chick Publications arguments, etc.. I cut my teeth on that stuff.. Yes, as many have more aptly noted than I could here, the Cherubim of the Ark [of the Covenant] in the Holy of Holies, in the Temple are cited, etc../for that matter, yes, as someone noted Christian films, etc..(would not pictures be considered a graven image..) What one person here cited about us (through Christ’s work) sharing in God basically [the Trinity]/the divine nature, was truly mind-blowing.., and helpful, in the one quote Monica made of divine Mother basically..(which would be through the redemptive work of her Son, appropriated to her before the foundation of the world.. (the Immaculate Conception) (a mystery)../also that whole poetic thing going there about the way God worked in her../the New Eve, etc..(her Son the new/second Adam…/paradise…/Heaven..etc..

A well studied Catholic brother shared some incredible things from the Scriptures, which ran along such lines../several passages from the Old..peRfectly mirrored in the New Testament about the ARK,,(of the Covenant) carrying..and heR carrying, the presence of God, etc……….also some great woman of God from the Jewish../Pre-Christian times who smote../drove a spike through this evil enemies head../a typecast../foreshadowing of Mary’s fulfillment of the FIRST (of 456) Messianic prophecy(-ies).. as so many have cited.. Genesis 3..”I will put enmity between your seed, and the seed of the woman, he will bruise his heel../and He will crush his head.”

I would encourage everyone to trust God../as He is able to save those who are lost..(as many see others..on either side of the Reformation.. as Paul said.. “for it is God who works in us to will and to do according to His good pleasure!! Therefore I would encourage all not to be so worked up or zealous..as to think they know “who will sit beside the Lord in His Kingdom, etc..”/their brother.. `cause as Paul said..”GOD is able to make him stand..” (Romans 14?) The greatest among you will be the least.. (Jesus) Let’s not worry about the wheat and the tares!! HE will sort it out’.. /call a church out of every tribe and nation and people and tongue.. HE is able to do it. We best be on about His business and we will SEE.. on that DAY!!

GOD BLESS EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU!!

Love, your brother,

David

3.WHERE WAS MARY WHEN THE LORD WAS CREATING THE WORLD?
3) In His heart and mind.
Reply: its not only the Mary, whoever getting the salvation of Jesus Christ are all in his heart and mind and they are foretold before the world was created.
6.WHY COULDN’T MARY SAVE JESUS FROM THE CRUCIFIXION?
6) It wasn’t God’s will. If it were God’s will, Mary would have (albeit by some miracle), for nothing is impossible with God and he can enable anyone to do anything. Similiarly, Jesus could have saved Himself, but His will was the Father’s-that He should remain on the cross, dying for the whole world (Mary included). Remember: “‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘but he can’t save himself! He’s the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.’” Matt 27:42. I don’t think who could have saved who from the crucifixion is a very good argument.
Reply: my question was WHY COULDN’T MARY SAVE JESUS FROM THE CRUCIFIXION? The answer is It wasn’t God’s will. If it were God’s will, Mary would have (albeit by some miracle) that’s it no other stuffs needed for that question I think that you may get it thanks.
7.AFTER JESUS ROSEN FROM THE DEATH. WHAT DID HE SAID TO THE APOSTLES. DOES HE SAID TO WORSHIP MARY?
8. OK WHO IS GOING TO GIVE U THE JUDGEMENT DAY?
8) I don’t understand what you mean by, ‘Give us the Judgment Day’.
Reply: The white throne judgment will be given to all of them in the world, we know that but judgment will be given one after one for one at a time so WHO IS GOING TO GIVE U THE JUDGEMENT is correct I think so . and my opinion is you are the first person to get the judgment I think so because u know the rosary better than every one.
10.OK DON’T BELIEVE ANY FOLK STORY OR TALES ABOUT MARY SHE IS THE RESPECTABLE LADY BUT NOT GOD.
10) Please understand (and this pertains to all), Mary is not God. She never was and never will be. Neither has the Catholic Church ever…and I mean ever claimed she was God. Do you remember the Athanasian Creed you use to pray as a Catholic? How did it start? It started with, “I believe in One God…”
 Reply: Mary is not God – good good!!!!
 She never was and never will be – very good very good!!!!!!!
 Neither has the Catholic Church ever…and I mean ever claimed she was God-

Reply: oh oh oh oh oh this is too bad it’s according to you and your church friend. I think that you are in a marvelous, tremendous, and fantastic and as well as a wonderful spiritual catholic church I think so this is the first time hearing about this miracle church where it is I want to see that. Will you please?

And which country do you belong to?

Define Athanasian?

Do you remember the Athanasian Creed you use to pray as a Catholic? How did it start? It started with, “I believe in One God…”

Reply: The starting of the prayer is nice FRIEND but the finishing is????????????????????????? Nice to hear that when your saying “I believe in One God…” but practically is 0000000000000000000000000000000000.

SO BELIEVE THE ONE AND ONLY JESUS THE LORD OF US.
11) Define, ‘believe’.
Reply: Ok friend I don’t know the definition of ‘believe’ you define that please.

(2.) Should we pray to Mary???
15) There is a difference in
asking, ‘Should…we do something’ and ‘May…we do something’. A person can live out their entire life, never ask Mary for anything and still be saved.
Reply: I don’t need the difference between should, May and ask.try to answer the question my dear friend
Roman Catholics believe that Mary, the mother of Jesus, remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and was sinless all of her life. She is worshiped in the Catholic church as the “Mother of God” and the “Queen of Heaven.” St. Bernard stated that she was crowned “Queen of Heaven” by God the Father, and that she currently sits upon a throne in Heaven making intercession for Christians.
16) All Christians will be crowned and seated with Christ on His throne. “To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne”. Rev 3:21. What else would you call a woman enthroned? Princess? Empress? HRH? Queen? What if this woman were enthroned in England? HRH, The Queen of England. Now, what if she were enthroned in heaven? The Queen of Heaven. I hope to be a queen of heaven…or at least a princess…some day. Catholics call Mary, ‘Queen of Heaven’, because Heaven is the country wherein she sits with Christ upon His throne, endowed with a crown that will never fade.
Reply: I never heared a funny and a craziest answer before nice imagination chery keep it up.
Reply: Ok ok I will give you the answer in my next article about “Mother of God” and the “Queen of Heaven.”
Note: when ever you prefer to write the answer try to read the question once or twice and answer thanks.
All Christians will be crowned and seated with Christ on His throne. “To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne”. Rev 3:21. What else would you call a woman enthroned? Princess? Empress? HRH? Queen? What if this woman were enthroned in England? HRH, The Queen of England. Now, what if she were enthroned in heaven? The Queen of Heaven. I hope to be a queen of heaven…or at least a princess…some day. Catholics call Mary, ‘Queen of Heaven’, because Heaven is the country wherein she sits with Christ upon His throne, endowed with a crown that will never fade.
Reply: what about the Elizabeth the mother of john the baptize and other righteous Christian women’s like mother Theresa and etc now start making glossary for these above mentioned persons also may be they will also save from you all sins and sorrows.
Note: not satisfied with this answer you have given.
The Bible teaches otherwise. In the Bible, Mary was a sinner just like the rest of us. She said herself that she needed a “Saviour” (Lk. 1:47), and she even had to offer a sacrifice for her sins in Luke 2:24.
17) Of course she needed a Saviour, but it does not follow that she first sinned. If you were walking in a park unaware that a robber was lurking in the bushes and God prevented that robber from attacking you, would He be any less your Saviour? Or would He be more of a Saviour to first allow the robber to attack and mug you, then after the robber was gone, dress your wounds, dust you off and give you a fifty with an offer to drive you to the police station to fill out a report so you could get your stolen goods back? Mary is an outstanding example, but she is an example of what God does for all of us day in and day out. He alone knows how many potential traps are out there waiting for us, while we blissfully go about our day unaware of all He is saving us from. God never ceases to be our Saviour. Whether we ask for forgiveness for sins already done or ask that He, ‘lead us not into temptation…’, His saving grace is always at work.
Reply: 1.nice story where did you get this story.
2. What do you mean by Mary is an outstanding example?
3. Dont be confused when reading the question friend.

this question and others related to Mary have been included under this heading.
14) All Christians are mediators, in, with and by the power of the One Mediator, Jesus Christ. Jesus’ role as Mediator springs in part from His hypostatic union (the union of God and Man). That’s not all, because He assumed true human flesh, flesh common to all people and united it with His divine person,(His humanity thus shares in the divine attributes while remaining perfectly human), all who have been born of the Spirit, as members of Christ’s Body, has a share in His divine attributes. Hence, He sent them out into the world saying, “Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give” Matt. 10:8. Now can mere men do such things? No. It is not within human nature to have such power. Are they then God(s)? No. They were men as St. Paul testifies after a crowd in Lystra thought he was a god for healing a crippled man. (Acts 14:8-18) What then? Peter gives us the answer when he says, “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.” (2 Peter 1:3-4)
Reply: I think that you can write another scripture kike Koran and Mormonism book
Nice imagination but don’t play with gods words I warn!! You my friend.
There’s only ONE mediator between God and men, and it isn’t Mary (I Tim. 2:5).
19) See above (9,14). As an aside, looking at the matter from an anthropological and psychological point of view, ‘mother’ and ‘mediatrix’ are closely interconnected. So much so as to be identical in certain cases. Applying this general rule to Mary specifically, it is at least linguistically possible to call her the Mother (Mediatrix) of Grace (Grace=Christ, “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.” Jn 1:14)
Reply: instead of speaking in anthropological and psychological point of view please go through in the way of bible view my friend.

The last time we hear from Mary in the Bible she is praying WITH the disciples, not being prayed to BY the disciples (Acts 1:14).
20) So no one talked to her then, asked questions, or beseeched her to pray for them?
Reply: Once again read the question carefully and steadily and then answer me friend don’t try to write any thing that goes in your mind. Thanks,

The Bible never exalts Mary above anyone else. Neither should we.
21) Define ‘exalt’ please.
Reply: Try to get the meaning this is not way of answering friend.
(1) The Bible says nothing about Mary ascending into heaven in some special way. She went to heaven as all do through faith in Christ as God’s Son who died for our sin, including hers.
25) Can you clarify what you mean by, ‘some special way’ as opposed to, ‘as all do through faith…’? Thanks.
Reply: ‘some special way’ as like the Roman Catholic go to the heaven by the way of rosary without the way of salvation of Jesus. I am not blaming your church friend because yours is a spiritual church who follows the words of bible.
It is to serve giving religious respect and glory to someone or something such as services in honor of that person, or giving sacrifices. Service speaks of honor. Also the Bible uses the phrase “to bow down before” (Exo 34:14) or to kneel (Mat 4:9) before something or somebody. Therefore no figure neither created by human hands nor found naturally in the world is to be or represent God. We worship God spiritually because God is a spirit.
31) Should we then not bow before the physical/natural/fleshy Christ?
Reply: Once again read the question carefully and steadily and then answer me friend doesn’t try to write any thing that goes in your mind. Thanks,

Is Mary the Queen of Heaven?
The expression “Queen of Heaven” occurs in the Bible only in Jeremiah 7:18; 44:17-25. It is a false goddess that Israel worshipped (served) in their idolatry, for which God punished them. To identify Mary with this “Queen of Heaven” is to identify her with a false religion prohibited by God.
41) Catholics don’t identify her ‘with this Queen of Heaven’. Mary, as ‘Queen of Heaven’ bears no theological semblance to what God had condemned in Jeremiah’s day. The above argument is like saying, “Faith alone” occurs only once, in James 2:24. Per James 2:24, it does not justify, is dead, ect. Therefore any Christian who claims that we are “justified by ‘faith alone’”, is in serious error-contra to Scripture. I’ve heard some Catholics argue in just this fashion. And to this Catholic, it’s one of the most annoying arguments anyone could make. They are wrong to try to identify Luther’s ‘faith alone’ with the ‘faith alone’ James condemns. They’re two totally different things-not even in the same universe, despite the one-to-one wording.
Reply: read my next article Mary Worship is Crazy!
________________________________________
God tells the truth about mankind:

“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.” (Romans 3:10)
“For there is not a just man upon earth, that does good, and does not sin.” (Ecclesiastes 7:20)
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23)
“…For there is no man that sins not….” (1 Kings 8:46)
“All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him [Jesus] the iniquity of us all.” (Isaiah 53:6)
God says that He must punish sin:
“Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4)
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)
God tells the inside story about His remedy for sin:
“Come now, and let us reason together, says the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” (Isaiah 1:18)
“God commends [demonstrates] His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)
“Who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed.” (l Peter 2:24)
“He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit.” (Titus 3:5)
“For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8, 9)
God wants to save you and will save you if you will follow His instructions:
“He who believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he who believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:36)
“And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, and your household.” (Acts 16:31)
“To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whoever believes in Him shall receive remission of sins.” (Acts 10:43)
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
“And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book: but these are written, that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you might have life through His name.” (John 20:30, 31)
God definitely declares that there is only one way to be saved:
“Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.” (John 14:6)
“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)
“Jesus said, I am the resurrection and the life: he that believes in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” (John 11:25, 26)
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” (l Timothy 2:5)
Christ extends to you a personal invitation:
“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me; and he that comes to Me I will in no wise cast out.” (John 6:37)
Now it is up to you. You have the inside story. What are you going to do about it?

Thanks friend
Praise the lord
Amen

Most of the comments you made i really agree on them. Faith and Love are key elements in a Christian life. Once we come into Christ Holy Spirit starts his Ministry with us, and works with us to change our character into Christ-like. This is when we start showing the fruits of that faith (includes LOVE). If necessary he will take us through a series of experiences working on our imperfections and changing us slowly into the image of Christ.

And you rightly said, he starts speaking to us daily if we are walking with him, every day righteously in his sight. Can we live like that in our Daily Life? No, So Prayer is the key to lead this kind of life. It’s like food for our soul. It helps us fight our daily battles when we start walking with him steadily. We have to nail all our will every day.Thats why our Lord said, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.”-Luke 9:23. So we need to come down to our knees and pray fervently and diligently to remove all our weaknesses that hinder our relashionship with our Lord.

As we mould ourselves into the image of Christ , it is then our Lord will start to execute his plan through us. Now we have become an instrument for our Lord. Now we are far from defending ourselves, but actually started a battle with the enemy. Now we are potential soul winners. What ever we do will be to bring glory to god. Our prayers are now not repetitive, but will be like a powerful weapon in the hands of a warrior. Every word we speak is now attested by the Holy Spirit and instantly moves the Heaven itself.“The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.” James 5:16.

That’s the power of Prayer. Let’s not bring this down to be mere repetitive sentences, which most of them don’t understand and read/speak through their mouths alone (I meant the Rosaries). If the prayer doesn’t come from heart it is useless. What comes from your heart is what you own, not something someone else has spoken/taught to you. Ask for what god puts on your heart. Even if I prayed the prayer of David, it’s not worth for me, becoz it was his song, which the Holy Spirit has put on his heart. God will also put a new song in our mouth as well to praise him if we ask.

My point was, we try very hard to live a righteous life in vain by our self-centeredness, but only through prayer we can break and make anything possible. And the amount of time you spend in prayer will decide the closeness of the relationship with our Lord Jesus.

Dear sister, I really do not know the relationship you have with MARY, but the relationship with Christ is what we should long for. He is our Master. He bought us with his precious blood. He is keeping us like an apple of his eye, and he declared “For he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye”- Zechariah 2:8.

It is not just by chance , but his will that Lord might have directed me to this discussion. I believe that every thing happens for a reason in the life of a true believer. Please share your testimony, how you came to know Jesus, and how you were saved, and how you are rejoicing in the Lord always.

Praise the Lord and God bless you.

Yet even when Catholics quote Scripture in defense of the Catholic Faith, Protestants still disagree. And that’s fine. I’m not saying they have to agree. My only point is, is that no one lives in a vacuum. We all come to Scripture with a personal history (a certain degree of bias), that can very easily affect how we interpret Scripture. That’s why it’s good to interpret Scripture within the context of the Christian Community, ie the Church. Because the Church spans every culture, history, ect., it’s understanding of Scripture and the Faith is not dictated by any one culture, or a single person’s interpretation. We learn to accept a variety of interpretations (Catholicism is a big-tent)and very often come to a consensus.

Since there is nothing in the Bible that explicitly says that Mary mediates for us, it is very difficult to understand why anyone would hold her in such high reverence that we would need to ask her to mediate for us, especially when there are MANY places in scripture that tell us how to pray and who to pray to. Why is it so hard for us Christians to find that one spot that tells us Mary is sitting next to Jesus asking Him to have mercy on us? Where did that come from if it doesn’t come from the Bible?

Just so I understand…are you asking for a particular verse…a prooftext?

When we are saved we are all made righteous, justified, and ambassadors for God (Romans 5:17, Titus 3:5-8, 2 Corinthians 5:20.)
The Bible tells us to come boldly to the throne. “So let us come boldly to the throne of our gracious God. There we will receive his mercy, and we will find grace to help us when we need it most.” Hebrews 4:16 Seems a lot easier and more PERSONAL to go God instead of going through like 10 different people.

It’s not a matter of going through this person, then that person. God is surrounded by His saints and angels, to beseech God, is to do so in the presence of His saints and angels and to beseech His saints and angels, is to do so in the presence of God.

Plus scripture says Jesus intercedes for us (Romans 8:34), because he knows everything we go through. No need for Mary to help him understand. He already understands and knows our needs.

He does. But Mary loves us and love acts. Mary assists us, not because something is lacking in Christ, but simply because it is in the nature of a Christian to be charitable towards others. Jesus loves Mary and He loves us. It was a joy for Him to have Mary for a mother. The fact that Mary is our Mother, is a testament to the overwhelming goodness of Christ that He would want us to share in His joy.

The Holy Spirit also prays for us. “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.” Romans 8:26
Now people may say “what about the Lord’s prayer”? Mathew 6:9 “This, then, is how you should pray…” Well, Jesus instructs us on HOW to pray, not that we should say the prayer exactly as he did. It is a guide on what to pray for. How many times do we see on TV, football teams nealing in locker rooms reciting the Lord’s prayer before a game? They are just words. God desires a sincere prayer from the heart in our OWN words.

How strange to hold so fast to Scripture where Mary is concerned and then regard Scripture as ‘just words’ where the Lord’s Prayer is concerned.

A few quotes from Cheryl:

To this I answer… “Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge HIM and He will direct your path.” Proverbs 3:5-6 Cheryl, trust God for the Truth. What are you afraid of?

I’m not afraid of anything. I just know my limits. You seem to be assuming that I became Catholic without trusting in God. But nothing could be further from the truth. He very much directed the path I took. It was a rocky path, but He was with me all the way. And while I’m still recovering from things which occured in the past, each day I am getting better. I’m no longer afraid of God like I use to be. I have found Jesus to be kinder and gentler than what I grew up believing. Most of all, I’m slowly learning what it means to truly live by trust and grace alone, to be a child-His child. To know that I don’t have to have it all figured out-that His grace is sufficient and that His love for me is steadfast and nothing I can do will make Him love me less.

“For me, what the Catholic Church teaches is the Gospel as taught by the Apostles. So I guess we’re at an impasse.”

Cheryl basically said she believes what the Catholic church TELLS her so that she doesn’t get anything wrong.

No. I get things wrong all the time.

This sounds like there is no room to rely on GOD’S grace to understand the Bible. The Bible says to ask for wisdom and it will be given to you without finding fault (James 1:5). Jesus said he sent the Holy Spirit to help us (John 14:26). And before you read your Bible, you can always pray to God for understanding of the text. And there is nothing wrong with telling God “I don’t understand.” ….
“But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.” 2 Corinthians 12:9

God’s grace definately comes by the means you mentioned. But it also comes from His Body the Church. It’s not an either/or.

His strength is made perfect in my weakness… And I find myself even closer to HIM when HE reveals his truth to me.

It seems like going to Mary to intercede is just a distraction from being able to tap into the real power of simply talking to God. The prayer of the righteous is powerful.(James 5:16) Amen? I think for most Chistians saying hail Mary sounds ritualistic and not sincere.

It may seem like that…but the reality (for me at least) is far different. I truly believe He gave Mary to us, not to distract us from loving Him, but to bring us into an even deeper intimacy with Him. At least, that has been my experience. Mary is truly a gift of grace-a gift of God. I count her as one of my blessing, for which I am eternally grateful to God for.

And this is not all to say that Catholics don’t have a real relationship with God. Christians just don’t understand how you can when there are so many “middle-men.”

But they aren’t ‘middle men’. The saints live in Christ and Christ lives and is glorified in them. ‘Middle men’ implies independence, but the saints are not independent of Christ. They are members of His body. I wish I could draw you a picture…sometimes illustrations help.

One more quote from Cheryl:

Cheryl, the Catholic Church didn’t give you the Bible, God did! And since HE gave you the word why not go straight to HIM to learn what it means? This quote is a little scary too in that it seems as though just because the Catholic Church says or does something, you believe it? The WORD OF GOD existed LONG before the Catholic Church and therefore is the FINAL authority.

The Catholic Church consists of everyone from Adam to the baby just born. The prophets, apostles, ect. are all members of the Catholic Church, from a Catholic perspective (Catholic=universal). These members gave us the Bible (in written form) and others after them have preserved these writings-their writings, down to the present day.

And you do have to admit, Cheryl. If the majority of Christians only see that Mary seems to be emphasized in the Catholic Church more so than Jesus… Is it really our fault? : /

Love in Christ,
Candra

Well, since the majority of Christians worldwide are Catholic, I’d have disagree.

God bless.

Even though I would love to respond to the points you’ve made, I already know that it would be in vain because we would probably go back and for for days. I came to this site because I was curious about Confession and then curious about why Catholics say “Hail Mary.” I want to learn why other people believe what they believe. In looking at other beliefs I can stand more firm in what I believe. I personally don’t see a reason why Mary is held in such high esteem, because for me it makes Jesus sound secondary. My focus and attention are on God and Christ alone and I don’t need to say a “sacred prayer” to tap into the power and grace that God freely gives.

(The Lord’s Prayer is just words if you don’t understand what it means and only say it because you can recite it. That is what I mean by “just words.” You have to have an understanding of what you’re saying and your heart has to be in it. Otherwise, why say it? Which people do say it with out thinking. So it is better to say a prayer in your own words out of sincerity and not just reciting something. That’s all I meant.)

I looked up why former Catholics have turned away from the Catholic Church, and their reasons are all the same. “The Catholic Church contradicts the Bible.” Not MY words, THEIR words. One woman made sure to state that the church had never harmed her or there wasn’t an incident that caused her to leave, it was simply because she started seeing that something wasn’t adding up and she began to go deeper into God’s word and saw that the Catholic Church contradicts what the Bible teaches. I have a college friend who used to be Catholic, though you would have never known she was a Christian from her lifestyle. While in school, she started going to Bible studies with me and that’s when her heart began to change and her eyes were opened. She said she felt like she had been cheated out of so much and that everything she had been taught was a lie. Now she is a Born Again Christian and her life has done a complete 180. It surprises me sometimes to see the change in her. I know God did that. Having a close friend who is a former Catholic makes me question a lot of things that you believe. Is that understandable?

I will finish with this. I am happy that I found this conversation, because it has drawn me closer to God. I am thankful to be in the truth. I am thankful that I can go boldly to God’s throne all on my own and He will accept me as I am. I am thankful that I can be in the presence of God’s love and grace anytime, day or night. I am thankful that Jesus and the Holy Spirit intercede for me. I am thankful that even when I have questions about my faith, God will lead me to the truth and give me peace. I am thankful that someone stumbling across this site who does not know Jesus will see my post and go deeper into God’s word for themselves and that God will reveal Himself to them. If only just one, I am thankful.

Cheryl, if anything I hope we can agree on this…We are all on different paths according to God’s will. If it is His will for you to be Catholic, then I can not object. I instead will choose to rejoice that He will draw other’s closer to Him through His word. Those who come away from the Catholic Church are meant to come away. Those who are meant to stay, will stay. Not my will, but God’s will be done… Amen

I am very glad that you came to know Jesus and will pray that you come to know Him more intimately as the days go by.

I too will probably bow out of the conversation (family issues are taking up too much of my time and brain-power :)).

I’m sorry if I made you feel like you’re not welcome here (it’s not even my website! lol). I think Georgy would agree-you’ll always be a welcomed guest here. I wish there weren’t so many road-blocks between us, but like Monica said, we agree on the most important thing-Jesus.

P.S. Your English may not be great, but at least you can write a little. I’ve never learned your language and couldn’t write it at all! So there, you have one up on me…so don’t feel bad. Since it’s Georgy’s blog anyways, I and other Americans/English are the odd men out :). Just think in heaven, we’ll understand each other perfectly and will have all of eternity to sing God’s praises TOGETHER!

Pray for me and know that I’ll be praying for you.

God bless you SELVAKUMAR…God bless you.
*Big Bear Hug*
Cheryl

Happy Christmas!
Dear friends, I have read somewhere that who don’t give due respect to Mary will however enter into heaven (as they believe in Lord Jesus) but will never see her.
As a catholic i think it is true, and it must be.

Why must it be? On the contrary, everyone’s sins and errors will be cleansed away by the ‘time’ they enter heaven.

I do accept that praying to Mary is very helpful.

It is and that’s something I think gets missed all too often in these sorts of theological debates. One side can cite such and such verse and another side can cite a different verse (each in an attempt to prove their point and fidelity to Scripture), but at the end of the day, it really only comes down to one question, “How do I relate to God?” I heard an old addage once that has really stuck with me, “We do not believe in Jesus because we believe that the Bible is true; Rather, we believe that the Bible is true because we believe in Jesus”.

The questions about WORSHIPPING and HONORING her as a goddess are just meaningless.

Ya know, I was just thinking the other day that some here should have watched AVATAR with me. It took me three whole days to be able to spit out the words, ‘The All Mother’ (in the movie, she was the people’s ‘goddess’) and even now I can’t say it without feeling queezy. Granted I think some people, for whatever reason, feel as if they need a ‘goddess’, but these people are found in all sorts of denominations not just Roman Catholicism. As for me, I cringe at the idea of Mary being some sort of goddess, because then she wouldn’t be Mary and it’s Mary I love.

Merry Christmas to you too!

2. Open to the book of Hebrews

3. Read the book of Hebrews

The book starts this way and continues:
The Supremacy of God’s Son
“Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.”
(Hebrews 1:1-4 ESV)

What is a priest?
-A priest is one who brings the our sins and requests before God
-A priest is anointed and chosen by God

Sacrifices

Let’s just focus on the book of Hebrews for a moment. The Jews for centuries needed some sort of physical way for them to become right before God. You see it throughout the Old Testament. These Hebrews would have to find both blood and grain sacrifices to make atonement for their sins.

A common mode of sacrifice was a spotless and perfect lamb. They had to be perfect. If they were imperfect, the sacrifice would lose it’s meaning. This has roots in even the first passover.

Jesus is described as the Lamb of God. When He died on that Cross 2000 years ago, He was that perfect sacrifice. He died once for all. He is continually making intercession for all of us.
Hebrews 7:25 “He is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.”

Mary simply gave birth to the Lamb of God. Was Mary perfect? No. How can I say this? I will tell you, with Mary’s own words in Scripture, in the Magnificat.
Luke 1:45-47 “And Mary said,
‘My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.’”
‘My Savior,’ huh? Why would she need saving if she was perfect? Why would she need a savior, if she didn’t need saving? If she has such control over her Son, why can’t she command herself into heaven?
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

So, logically, if she is not perfect, she has sinned, and if she has sinned, she has fallen short of the glory of God, and so vis a vis, when someone prays to the Virgin Mary, he is praying to someone who has sinned, who does not have the glory of God. It is man-worship, and idolatry.
“No one comes to the Father but through Jesus Christ”

The Trinity is Perfect and Ordained and is worthy of worship.

Study Olde Roman Pagan Mythology, and compare the “Saints” to all the different gods the Romans had. I can guarantee you, for every Saint, you’ll be able to find the Roman god resemblance. The Romans prayed to different gods depending on their need. True, when people pray to the saints, they don’t claim that saint is the One True God. The Roman Pagans didn’t either.
In the early church, there were many new converts in the Roman Empire that were quite confused between a Roman belief system, and a Christian system of salvation. It was hard for them to believe that the only way to God was through a dead and resurrected Son of Man. To deny that Jesus can hear and answer all of our prayers is a denial of the very Divinity of Jesus Himself. If we can talk to Jesus Himself in prayer, why turn to Mary?

Such a sad history the catholic church has..

People say we Bible-thumpers are Protestants. We only Protest against the idea that God can only speak to us through Holy Tradition. God has given us The Holy Word. It has everything we will ever need. To say that anything more has just as much authority is warned about in Scripture.
Revelation 22:18-19 “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”

and just before those words are words of encouragement

Revelation 22:17 “The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires, take the water of life without price.”

Soli Deo Gloria!

I love talking about spiritual things. I’ve spent the last 5 years in a Bible school studying nothing but the Bible, discerning Truth and non-Truth. I love God with my whole heart,and my love causes me to be passionate about the Truths that God says in Scripture. All of the Word of God is Absolute Truth. The Bible is full of absolutes that can either comfort us or condemn us. “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”(John 14:6) The very statement of Christ saying that He is the ONLY WAY to the Father is implicit in saying that He absolutely was, absolutely is, and absolutely always will be the only way. To add any parameters, qualifications, or limitations on that declaration by Christ would diminish every other promise He had made. That is all.

Soli Deo Gloria

Catholic doctrine commands members to pray to the virgin Mary well that is manmade rules as you said it Joy it’s a Catholic doctrine command that’s about it. I truly hope you find true meaning before His coming. God Bless You.

Forget about Mary for a second. Forget about the communion of saints.

When God came and assumed human flesh (like we all have), this union was so great, that the lowly human flesh which can do nothing of its own, shared in God’s attributes. Hence, Jesus could heal, raise the dead, had power over nature, could see into men’s hearts ect. This fact about Jesus is not inconsequential, that is, accidential, when what Jesus really came to impart was solely the forgiveness of sins. He does impart that (the forgiveness of sins), but not only that. Our salvation does not consist solely in the forgiveness of sins, but consists in everything Christ did on our behalf; from being conceived and born, living as a child, teenager, man, was persecuted, died, rose and ascended into heaven where He sits at the right hand of God. In rising, He rose bodily as a man, not merely as God, for Thomas touched the wounds of a man who was three days prior, crucified (in other words, it was the same human flesh which was killed, that came to life again). In ascending, He rose bodily as a man, for the disciples saw Him ascend into heaven and He sits at the right hand of the Father as man, for Stephen who was stoned, saw Him as such.

Now, let’s think seriously about this for a minute. At least one man has divine perogatives. But how can this be? We can’t merely say, ‘Oh but that’s Jesus’, unless by ‘Jesus’ we mean that the hands and spit He used to cure the blind man, were somehow in and of themselves more than human. Or the blood He shed was of itself, more than human. Yet, if we chose this route, we have denied the true humanity of Christ. Many here spoke of Mary being human, well, so was Christ. His humanity didn’t possess any special powers that were not given it, by virtue of it’s union with God. It was the Divine Person working in, through, and in concert with the very real “normal” flesh He had assumed. If Mary gave birth to someone who was not at the same time divine, that child could accomplish nothing. Mary did not impart to Christ some super-human flesh. She imparted to Him, the flesh we all have-Adam’s flesh.

So we have a man with divine perogatives. Surely this is an affront to God-to the divine? No, because God did it. I think we all seriously need to come to terms with the real humanity of Christ, before we start with the whole, “Man can’t be like this…”, because at least one man was and we can’t make a special exception for this one man, without denying that he is indeed a true man like any of us.

So looking at Christ and Christ alone, the premise that, “Man can’t do such and such…He can’t be like this…” is true only insofar as someone is merely a man, but insofar as man is united to God, it’s blatantly false.

Which brings me to my concluding point. By uniting Himself to us throught the Spirit and through a shared humanity, He has infused our own human nature (which can do nothing of it’s own), with His own divine powers. For it is not a human spirit which rests on us, but the Divine Spirit. And it is by this Divine Spirit that:

1) Human lips can cry out to God, Abba Father.
2) Human vocal chords can speak in tongues.
3) Human hands can heal and raise the dead.
4) Human shadows (ie Peter’s) and human bones (ie Elisha’s) possess power.
5) Human hearts can possess faith, hope, love.
6) Human faith can move mountains and do even greater things.
And the list goes on and on…until we are told at last in Scripture that we will sit with the man Christ on the very throne He sits and will reign with Him, will tread serpents (or the serpent) under our feet. He will do all this through us, to the glory of His name.

We are to look to the humanity of Christ as our shining example of what the Father has promised us, through His Son. It’s not that we are God. There are only three persons in the Godhead. We are and will always be human persons-created, yet persons to whom the grace of God has imparted the gifts of Himself and His power.

To say that Mary or anyone can not as a matter of course do this or that because they are only human, is to fail to take into account the divine gifts which they have received from a divine hand who is lavish and whose ‘treasury’ of divine gifts and power is never exhausted, but who distributes to each according to His will.

And it is from this vantage point, from Christ and the salvation He bestows, that we can go onto to say certain things of Mary and of ourselves.

But Bible never said to worship or pray to Mary. But bible says Worship only GOD with your spirit with your mind and with your strength.If u search whole New testament we cannot a single incident where people worshipping or praying to Mary.It is true Jesus handed over Mary to Disciple John. Same John wrote one Gospel and Three Epistle but never asked any one of us to pray to Mary. But he wrote these Words of Jesus:- John 15:7 (KJV) If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.Also in John 14:13 (KJV) And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

We have to respect Mary no doubt but we should only to pray to the Father in Heaven thru’ Christ Jesus. Those who accepted Jesus Christ as their personal saviour and become the child of GOD received the Spirit of son ship.Romans 8:14 (KJV) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.Galatians 4:6 (KJV) And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Bible says Hebrews 4:14-16 (KJV)14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.Please note we are asked to go directly to Father thru’ Jesus Christ not thru’ anybody else. If we are trying to approach The FATHER in Heaven thru’ someone other than JESUS CHRIST we are actually saying that we are not =trusting the WORDS of Jesus.This is what Eve also did in the garden of Eden.Not trusting the Word of God is the greatest sin.Eve entered into that sin we all knew what was the after effect of that sin. Please trust the Word of Jesus don’t try to analysis the Word and enter into unbelief.

Pray Only to Father thru’ Jesus. Jesus taught us how to pray. Can anyone show in that prayer the name of Mary. Hold on to Jesus teachings.

The Virgin told Lucia: “Go my child and tell the world; what will come to pass during the 1950′s – 2000′s. Men are not practicing the Commandments that our Father has given us. Evil is governing the world and is harvesting hate and resentment all over. Men will fabricate mortal weapons that will destroy the world in minutes, half of the human race will be destroyed, the war will begin against Rome , and there will be conflicts amongst religious orders. God will allow all natural phenomenon’s like Smoke, hail, cold, water, fire, floods, earthquakes, winds and inclement weather to slowly batter the planet. These things will come to pass before the year 2010. “Those who won’t believe, this is the time,” your beloved mother told you, “those lacking charity towards others and those who do not love thy neighbor like my beloved Son has loved you, all, cannot survive. They will wish to have died, millions are unimaginable, they will come, and there is no doubt our Lord God will punish severely those who do not believe in him, those who despise him and those who did not have time for him I call upon all of you to come to my son Jesus Christ, God helps the world but all of those who do not show fidelity and loyalty will be destroyed” Father Agustin, who lives in Fatima, said that Pope Paul VI gave him permission to visit sister Lucia who is a cloistered nun (she does not leave the monastery nor is allowed to receive any visitors). Father Augustin said that she received him greatly overwhelmed and told him: “Father, our lady is very sad because nobody is interested in her prophecy of 1917, though the righteous are walking through a narrow path, the evil ones are walking through an ample road that is leading them straight to their destruction, believe me father, the punishment will come very soon.” Many souls will be lost; many nations will disappear from the earth.. But, in the middle of all these, if men reflect, pray and practice good deeds, the world can be saved. One of all th ese, if men persist with its evil, the world will be lost forever. The time has come for all to pass on the message of our Blessed Lady to their families, friends, and to the entire world. Start praying, to make penitence and sacrifices. We are at the last minute of the last day and the catastrophes are near. Due to this, many that were far from the church will return to the open arms of the Church of Jesus Christ . The joining of the churches will result in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church ; England , Russia , China , Jews, Muslims and Protestants. All will return believing and worshiping God our creator, in his beloved Son and in our Blessed Mother Virgin Mary”. WHAT AWAITS US??? Every where there will be “Peace Talks”, but punishment will come.

A MAN IN A VERY IMPORTANT POSITION WILL BE ASSASSINATED AND THIS WILL PROVOKE THE WAR. A POWERFUL ARMY WILL DOMINATE ALL THROUGH EUROPEAN THE NUCLEAR WAR WILL COMMENCE. This war will de stroy everything, darkness will fall over us for 72 hours (three days) and the one third of humanity that survives this obscurity and sacrifice, will commence to live a new era, they will be good people. In a very cold night, 10 minutes before midnight , A GREAT QUAKE will shake the earth for 8 hours. This will be the third signal that God is who governs the earth. The righteous and those who propagate the faith and the message of the Lady of Fatima SHOULD NOT FEAR, DO NOT BE AFRAID. WHATTO DO???

Bow your heads, kneel down and ask God for forgiveness because, only what is good and is not under the power of evil will survive the catastrophe. In order for you to prepare and remain alive I will give you the following signs: ANGUISH…….. AND IN A SHORT PERIOD THE EARTH QUAKE WILL COMMENCE… THE EARTH WILL SHAKE….The shake will be so violent that will move the earth 23 degrees and it will return it to its normal position. Then, total and absolu te darkness will cover the entire planet… All evil spirits will be mingling around and free, doing harm to all those souls that did not want to listen to this message and those who did not want to repent. To the faithful souls, remember to light the blessed candles, prepare a sacred altar with a crucifix in order to communicate with GOD and implore for His infinite mercy…. All will be dark; IN THE SKY A GREAT MYSTIC CROSS will appear to remind us the price that his beloved Son had to pay for our redemption…In the house the only thing that can give light will be the HOLY CANDLES… Once lit, nothing will put them off until the three days of darkness are over. Also, you should have Holy water that should be sprinkled abundantly on windows and doors. The Lord will protect the property of the chosen ones.. Kneel down before the powerful cross of my beloved Son, pray the Rosary and after each Hail Mary you must pray the following: “Oh God forgive u s our sins, preserve us from the fire of hell, take all souls to heaven, specially those who are in more need of they mercy. Blessed Virgin Mary protect us, we love you, save us and save the world”. Pray 5 Creeds and Rosary which is the secret to my Immaculate Heart. All those who believe in my words go and take the message to everyone.

DO NOT FEAR. FEAR NOTHING DURING THE LORD’S GREAT DAY.

Talk to all the souls. now that there is time, those who keep quiet will be responsible for all those souls who will perish in ignorance.
All those who pray humbly the rosary will have the protection of heaven and those who are bound to die I will help them die in peace and they will be holy when they enter the other world. I wish all my children to attend mass every first Friday and every first Saturday of each month, to confess and receive Holy Communion and in doing so, save the world from its TOTAL DESTRUCTION.WHEN the earth shakes no more, those who still not believe in our Lord will perish in a horrible way. The wind will bring gas and it will disperse it everywhere, then the sun will rise. Maybe you will survive this catastrophe. Do not forget that God’s punishment is holy and ONCE IT HAS STARTED YOU SHOULD NOT LOOK OUTSIDE, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE, GOD DOES NOT WANT ANY OF HIS CHILDREN TO SEE WHEN HE PUNISHES THE SINNERS…. All this encompasses with the writings of the Holy Scriptures..

Read on the New Testament: Luke: 21 – 5:121, 12:19 , 20:20 , 29:33 Letters of St Paul 3 – 8 – 14 Isaiah 40, 1:5:9. You must understand that God allows all this to happen. The Pope and Bishops are now awaiting another message that speaks about repentance and prayer. Remember that Gods words are not a threat, but good news…Please reproduce these pages and send them to all you know so we all can have the opportunity to repent and be saved. We do not know if those receiving this message believe or not in GOD, but think that if you are receiving this message is for a reason!! Maybe the Creator is giving us the chance to be saved, no matter what religion or creed. If you don’t believe in this message at least send it to others, it costs you nothing. To all those receiving it, they can have the opportunity to judge for themselves. Remember, we can avoid a great deal if we practice the Commandments that our Father God left us. There are 10 simple things, that if we all put in practice we can obtain God’s pardon.

so, you don’t need any authority because you have bible. You don’t need to listen to someone like Pope because you can have direct connection to God. Well, the same spirit Martin Luther had. He was right when he opposed unlawful practices being performed in the church but at the same time he was wrong because he refused that Christ had given any power(the power to open and to close the gates of heaven) to his representatives some time in the past. He himself was a controversial figure at his time and we know that Adolf Hitler (the biggest enemy of Jews) was influenced by him.

even Jesus respected the Jewish Authority. he told his disciples to do that. Once St. Paul also spoke against st. Peter (the first Pope) but he never challenged his (Peter’s) authority, although he was right. This is the difference between Martin Luther and st. Paul. this is the difference between a Lutheran and a Catholic.

what i want to say is that all authorities comes from God. Jesus made Peter the Rock for the church, the same Peter who was a mere human being..a liar..week..illiterate..a fisherman. Jesus said that on this Rock He would build His Church.
one more point is here that Jesus said “CHURCH” not “CHURCHES”.
can anyone clarify this contradiction? we see many churches today but Jesus established only one Church.

I just read your comments about the authority in realation to prayer to Mary. I agree with you that all auhtority is given by GOD. But If an auhtority ask us to do somehting which is NOT agreeing with the Word of GOD do we have to follow it. Peter or Paul never and ever followed which was NOT agreeing with the Word of GOD. Read the Book of Acts specialy Chapter 5. I am quoting some verse for from the same chapter for your reference.Acts 5:26-29 (KJV)26 Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned. 27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them, 28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us. 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

I wants to ask you onething. Is bible asking us to pray to Mary or any other saints. If so please give the bible verse or verses then I am there to agree with you. We the Born again children of GOD purchaed by the blood of Jesus Christ and made Rightous by GOD thru’ Christ are asked to follow only the Word of GOD not any other dotrines or teachings .No authority can ask any of the sheep given to them to follow something againt Bible or not tallying with The Word of GOD.

Read this warning given in the bible – Revelation 22:18-19 (KJV)18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Church is body of Christ. GOD never created relegions or denominations. He asked hus to be the member of Christ’s body by being One with HIM. 1 Timothy 3:15 (KJV) But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. Church should stand for the Truth & Jesus is the Truth. Bibles says John 8:32 (KJV) And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Be blessed in Jesus name.

I thank GOD for because you said Chritians means those who have Christ in them.

I just want to say few things to you.

1. Bible says there is only one Read this verse carefully-1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; as pwer bible there is only ONE Mediator and that is Jesus Christ. Aaogn bibles says Hebrews 4:15-16 (KJV)15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. If we can GO directly to Jesus Christ Who is the High Priest why we need another mediator.

Now you may aske why we say our co believers to pray for us.We are not suppose to give then a job to pray for us and we just depending on there prayer.We along with our co belivers are asked to got directly GOD & to Jesus Christ because Christ is ONLY Mediator and the co belivers are the memebers of Body of Christ. Can you show mwe a singleverse in New Tesiment where apostoles including Peter & Paul paryed through Mary the eartly mother who go the privilage to give bith to jesus ot to other saints.It is all because we are not able to accept fully that GOD is love & He loves us and that Love is pouring us thru’Holy Spirit.Let us learn to live with Holy Spirit.

2. your query -Did Jesus came to you and say dont interceed to mary or other saints?
If bible is silent on something we human beings are not supposed ato add something with an ssumption that bible is incomplete. Bible says if we do like that bible warns us with these verses Revelation 22:18-19 (KJV)18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Be Blessed in Jesus name.

@ntoppo

Your arguments about dead and alive saints don’t really address the issue; they sound irrelevant. Really why did you mention “sleeping?”

Now, as far as saints are concerned,

Paul numerously refers to his addressees as saints:

“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1)

“Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, to all the saints in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the overseers and deacons” (Philippians 1:1)

or sends greets from saints:

“Finally, brothers, good-by. Aim for perfection, listen to my appeal, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you. Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the saints send their greetings.”

So you words that in the Catholic church one can be considered a saint only after he dies don’t hang together with the Bible.

@Alen

Why are we people fighting over this? Because it is an important issue, which potentially involves idolatry and un-biblical practices.

Yes, you are right. We have to spread the word. But how should we spread it? If a Protestant missionary converts a few people, and then a Catholic will talk to these converts and say, “Your practices are wrong. You are supposed to do this, this and this, not that, that, and that.”

It would be confusing.

Read your message to KTulu.

First of all respecting saints (according to bible those who are born again are known as saints- Ref.1Cor 1:1-2, 2Cor 1:1, Eph 1:1, Phil 1:1)and praying to them and making them as mediotors before God the Father are two different things. Respecting saints ia biblicsl but praying to them and making them as mediators before God the Father is not biblical.

2 about the cross- you said
IF YOU SAY THIS idolatry THEN EVEN THE ‘CROSS’ THAT YOU CARRY WITH U BECOME MEANINGLESS ( JESUS DIED FOR US ON CROSS, BUT WHY U NEED A CROSS YOU NEED ONLY JESUS)….

Please note that cross in itself has no meaning in the life of a believer.Cross WITHOUT JESUS has no value for any of us. We got our three fold salvation ONLY because Jesus died on the cross and ressurected from the dead.Jesus is our saviour no other name is given for our salvation. I dont think anyone is carrying cross without Jesus for savation. Cross without Jesus is just only a 2 piece of wood which cannot give us eternal life. As per bible 1 John 5:11-12 (KJV)11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

If we have Jesus Christ we have life those who have only cross WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST they don’t have eternal life (The Life of GOD).

Be blessed in Jesus name

Praise the Lord. And sorry for the delayed response
First i would like to convey few things, so as there may not be any mis-understanding or mis-communication from my end.

1. I always try to draw your attention to biblical perspective. So please do not mis-understand whenever i ask for a biblical reference to any conclusion you has drawn on a particular topic.
2. Also I believe that Bible is a holy document, which the god has presented for this generation, written down by spiritually inspired believers and through holy spirit we are led into completeness of the truth and understanding. (There can be different views on a topic but the truth is absolute.)
3. Our main objective should be to find out this absolute truth with the help of holy spirit who guides us, all through the journey of a Christian life.
4. And whatever God felt necessary for the salvation and journey of the believer, he has already made it available and documented in this book, and suggested not to add/remove any thing from this. If the Lord has felt anything more is required to convince at least one soul to save him from eternal death; he would have put it in this book.

So your argument to say, Jesus has done so many things, which have not been documented is invalid.
This is how our Lord wanted it to be. And that’s FINAL for our generation.

Regarding our discussions….

I have asked you so many Questions, but you never answered to any of them with references. (I am assuming they are un-biblical.)
You can jump out of those Questions, by posting new Questions, but still they remain un-answered.

Let’s look at your new issues (contradictions).

Call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father-the one in heaven.–Matthew23:9
Indeed, in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.–1Cor4:15

now a doubtful mind like yours(and anyone’s) will question why Paul is calling himself a father when God is the Father.
was it wrong when Elisha cried out saying these words when his master Elijah was ascending into heaven?
Father, father! The chariots of Israel and its horsemen!–2Kings2:12

God has given some individuals a new name when He blessed them or made a promise to them.
Abram becomes Abraham.–Genesis17:15
Jacob becomes Israel.—–Genesis32:28
same way Jesus is blessing(promising) Simon and He gives him a new name-Peter(means rock)

Now the people who wrangle over words(2Timothy 2:14) will say-how can there be two rocks because Christ(God) is the Rock?
these are the examples of senseless controversies(2Timothy2:23)

I don’t understand why you had to give so elaborated section to make a point that god can give a new name, when he ordinates them
for a higher calling. I agree on this.
I still believe, Christ is the ROCK on which, he intended to build his church on.
Even if I will take your word on face value (although no biblical parallel references are there) and assume that Peter is the rock
on which, Jesus has testified to build his church, what references can you point to, saying catholic church is the one which is
referred here and Pope should be the HEAD of this Church?

I think no believer will put his salvation at risk, by putting their trust on such a controversial organization. (I have posted
the controversies in my earlier posts. Can read them.). If we are being taught that God is going to overlook all those un-biblical
activities of the Catholic Church, then we are living a Satan’s lie. Catholic Church in its state can never be presented to Christ
as his bride.

And brother you have Quoted 2Thimothy2:23, but please read the next verses 24-26. I am doing that here.

these types of confusions and questions come out from human minds. the same is here with the mediator ship of Virgin Mary and saints. Mother Mary, Peter and saints have nothing of their own but in Christ and through the gospel they are mediators.
I can pray for you but it’s your job how you get rid of these doubts. you may ignore these, or check out your faith in Jesus, or
just end with condemning Catholic Church.

people are asking again and again for the references from the bible about Mary and saints.
Bible doesn’t contain each and everything that God could have said to His People.
“But there are also many other things that Jesus did; if every one of them were written down, I suppose that the world itself
could not contain the books that would be written.” John21:25(no one would be able read them in one’s whole life.)
we should thank God that he has given us the Bible(containing just 1400 pages) to believe and imitate Christ, “not to be teachers
of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make assertions”.–1Timothy1:7

If our confusions and Questions are from our minds, why don’t you prove it wrong with biblical references where it says Mary,
Other passed away saints are mediators for those who are living. If these are my doubts, then they are valid ones. Please I
request again, instead of bluntly arguing, show me biblical references, where it is said, Mary and passed away saints can be our
mediators.

If you want to say that, do not question/doubt the scripture and of course, i will do that. If it is outside the scripture, i will
question it, and it’s my duty as a believer to do that. And if your prayers are not going to answer these questions, it is you who
needs to examine your salvation and faith.

As i have already explained, that whatever is necessary for a believer has already been written down and compiled. And we need to
look into the bible to understand the bible. Only scripture can reveal the scripture.

Vijay i don’t know which denomination you belong to, but in Catholicism there cannot be a living saint or dead saint. a Christian’s whole life is a journey to holiness and it ends with his/her physical death. only then a christen can be considered
to be declared saint. your idea of dead saint seems to be unbiblical.

This point of Catholic church declaring believers as saints after their death, is invalid , and why so has been accurately
explained by our brother Ktulu. When Jesus declared redemption of Human Being as ‘It is Finished’ on the cross , why do we need to add more to it, by saying, we need to do good works as well. It is the job of Holy Spirit, who transforms us slowly into the character of Jesus Christ. If there is no change in our heart, i guess the person needs to question about his salvation itself.

i tell you why.
Jesus describes physical death as a sleep.
the girl is not dead but sleeping.–Matthew9:24
our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep—John10:33
then who is really dead? one who doesn’t live in Christ.
but the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives.–1Timothy5:6
now when you say ‘a dead saint’ i think you mean a passed away saint. well, saints are always living because they reign with
Christ. “now he is God not of the dead, but of the living; for to him all of them are alive”.–Luke20:38

Using the above verses, Catholic church, and you have created a doctrine of your own.
Just question yourself, when a person dies, what happenes.Souls pass on into eternity, and Body is in the state of sleep.
Souls don’t sleep.(Soul sleep is Gnostic doctrine which is un-biblical.)

If we assume, that a soul sleeps waiting for judgment, it contradicts this verse… “And as it is appointed unto men once to
die, but after this the judgment:”-Hebrews 9:27

And Of course, Our God is the god of the Living , not of the dead.
Once a person, comes into salvation of Christ, through repentance and Belief in Christ as personal savior, he has crossed over from Eternal Death, to Eternal Life at that very moment.

What does this mean ?

We believers are the part of Eternal Life in Christ, the movement we accepted Christ. Not after our death.
So we are Living in Eternity, and He is our God. And that makes him the God of the Living in Christ and not of the Dead in Christ.

you have mentioned the wedding at Cana. it is funny to say that Jesus is rebuking his mother. you have described it in very
literal sense.

I don’t know what other sense you can derive from that..

“Catholic Church portrays and represents Mary as being more sympathetic than Jesus Christ”
no Pope has ever said that Mary is more sympathetic than Jesus Christ
and even if she looks more sympathetic then is it of her own? does it not reflect Jesus’ Mercy?
i have already said and i say again please don’t compare any human to Jesus Christ. This is real idolatry and un-biblical,
brother! don’t compare Him with Mary, Peter, Paul or other saints.

OK.I thought i said Catholic church is doing that.

i live in Chhattisgarh (India) and here in my village there are some non-Catholics who have same thoughts against Mary and
saints. they often invite me to leave Catholicism and join their group. i know that just being Catholic is not a ‘ticket’ to
heaven but just believing in Jesus also is not a guarantee. my parents have always been faithful to Catholic Church and i too
wish to remain a Catholic.

If you still are not confident about where you are going, i guess you need to re-look into your salvation. if you had really known Christ, he would have already assured you, where he is going to take you.
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity” – Matthew 7:22-23

and finally…
“therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out
your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his
good pleasure.”–Phillippians2:12-13

While believers are not to fear hell-Jesus has guaranteed that no believer will go there (John 3:16-18; 5:24), we are to fear the Lord. This fear reflects both reverence for His awesome grandeur (e.g., Isa 6) and respect for His discipline (e.g., Heb 12:3-11). Believers are thus to exercise ongoing obedience with an attitude of reverential fear.
The translation work out is potentially misleading since one meaning of work out is to exercise something we already have (e.g., “he works out three times a week”).

It is not that we need to work out for our salvation? There is nothing man can do to receive salvation. It is a free gift from God.

If we are trying to do something, it’s like trying to bribe him with our good deeds, to let us in.

Phil 2:12 is not dealing with eternal salvation at all. Rather, it is dealing either with temporal salvation from the calamities which come upon the disobedient or with temporal salvation through the trials which faithful believers face.

May god lead this into your hearts.
God bless.

Bible was not written in english for the first time. When translations are made, they use the best word to bring out the meaning for that context. Please listen to the talk on http://www.turnbacktogod.com/mary-purgatory-and-the-bible/ which is about Mary and bible.

In that talk he talks about Jesus adressing mary as woman. It will be very helpful as it talks about a lot of other things including if she is just the physical mother or jesus and that might answer your questions. In the bible, it does not say that she was just the physical mother of jesus, but elizabeth welcomes her as the “mother of her lord”. If she was just the physical mother and God wanted us to know that, it would have been stated.

Another thing is, sometimes to understand something completely we have to go back to tradition and understand why they did, what they were did. It can be wrong, but it might be right too. when searching, go with an open mind, know that there is a chance that it can be against what we believe, or it might not be.

In the bible it does not say that we have to pray to mary and just know that as catholics we dont “pray” to mary. We only pray to god. Rather than praying “to” her, we pray “with” her.

One more thing, nowhere in the Bible, does it say that everything that we believe has to be seen in the Bible. In fact, Bible does not talk about Holy trinity even though we know that all of us totally believe in trinity.

So friends, speaking truth in love here, I love you all in Jesus Our lord. Even though Catholic church and her teachings might look strange to you now, and i can understand why, if someday you get a chance to know more, it will make perfect sense. And if it does not, thats ok because God loves us all anyway.

Same is true of praying to any other saints. people who lived much more holier lives than us. what we do to Mary and other saints, like lighting the candles, or offering anything is just a sign of respect for what they were and not worship. don’t you pay respect to your parents when they die, or on their anniversaries, do we not pay homage to martyrs and freedom fighters. All this is not worshiping but acknowledging that what they have done is remembered and respected.

Secondly as far as praying the rosary is concerned. it is a prayer given by Mary herself in one of her appearances to one of the saints. so it would be foolishness to ask reference for it in the Bible. and anyone who is allergic please go through the rosary thoroughly before making any hasty remarks. what we are praying in rosary is nothing but word of god, reflecting on all the major events in Jesus life. So its Christo-centric and not centered around Mary. what is recited again and again is angels words to Mary and Elizabeth’s greeting to Mary. and at the end is a petition “to pray for us at the hour of our death”. so there nothing unbiblical about it. its just prejudice. (Hail Mary Full of Grace the Lord is with you, blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb Jesus, holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death amen). i m not writing the events here, (decades) please refer any catholic daily prayerbook or search on net to find more about it. and if you still feel it is unnecessary do not pray rosary. but do not condemn those who are doing so.

Thirdly no catholic is doing idol worship, we do not worship the statue but the person whose statue it is. that is Jesus Christ. idol worship is giving place of god to something else, so your mobile could be your idol, or your internet could also be, or your wife, girlfriend, or cricket or job or money. we do not worship idols. if you ask me to break the statue of Jesus i will do it without any hesitation, only thing which may hold me back is the words of the blessing used to bless that statue, the words of the gospel read while blessing and the blessed water used to bless it, only the Word could hold me back, nothing else. it is only to help us to concentrate and pray well. surely praying in a empty hall with nothing around you, you are more prone to be distracted than if you have something to look at or something to imagine about how the person whom i m worship may look like, or looking at the crucifix, what he has done for me? so take out this wrong assumption of worshiping idols and check out in your life, what idol you are worshiping? you may be knowing that god himself asked Moses to make bronze serpent and hang it on the stick so that anyone who look at it may be healed, it was not idol worship, it was prefiguration of Jesus Christ on the cross, anyone who looks at Jesus will be cured of poisonous bite of sin. snake is considered something devilish but still it did not become idol worship because it symbolized not snake but Jesus Christ on the cross. Thank god Catholics are not putting snake on the Cross. ha ha

Only Bible is our rule book…a book written only with the inspiration of Holy Spirit and Holy Spirit is the spirit of Almighty God. Everybody considers Mary as a blessed and holy lady but where you go wrong is you consider her as your intercessor to God whereas it is written several times in bible that Jesus is our only intercessor. Brethren please find out in the bible if Jesus ever said that Mary will be your intercessor to me or the Almightily God. You all remember the feast of unleavened bread when Jesus had his last supper with his disciples whereas as written in the Old Testament the feast of unleavened bread was to be celebrated with your own family. Why didn’t Jesus go to Mary and his other siblings to celebrate that feast? Why did he consider his disciples to be his family? Please read Matthew 12:46-50 while he was talking to the crowd somebody came and said your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you and Jesus replied who is my mother and who is my brother and then further said whoever does the will of my father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother. What I want to say is for Jesus earthly relations were not so important for him but for him every one who fulfills the will of God is his mother, his brother, and his sisters.

Please also read Mark 3:21 which says “And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, “He is out of his mind.” and John 7:5 says “his brothers also didn’t believe in him.”

Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” I again request you to go through the bible, stop thinking in earthly manner. Mary will always be a holy lady chosen person of God in our sight but when you put her on God’s place by praying to her you are actually committing a sin. Now a days, I am fervently praying for all my catholic brothers and sisters that Holy Spirit open their spiritual eyes and they can seek God in the way bible tells us to do.

I have a question.
About the apparitions of Mary, it always talks about praying the rosary. I t encourages us to pray the rosary. I really don’t get it. Jesus should have stopped Mary, since it is only Him who is the mediator. But He let Mary do the apparition and tell people to pray the rosary.
Can someone answer me?

The rosary, when properly prayed, recounts the life of Jesus. Here are the mysteries:

Joyful: 1)Annunciation 2)Visitation 3)Christ’s birth 4)Presentation in the Temple 5)Finding Christ in the Temple at age 12.

Luminous: 1)Christ’s Baptism 2)The Wedding at Cana 3)The Proclamation of the Kingdom 4)The Transfiguration 5)The Last Supper

Sorrowful: 1)Christ’s agony in the Garden 2)Christ being scourged 3)Christ being crowned with thorns 4)Christ carrying the cross 5)Crucifixion

Glorious: 1)The Resurrection 2)Ascention 3)Pentacost 4)The Assumption of Mary 5)Her Coronation

Of all the mysteries, only 2 are directly aimed at Mary.

Those things which we are meant to come away with as we contemplate on each set of mysteries are:

Joyful:Humily, Love of Neighbor, Spiritual Poverty, Purity, Obedience.
Luminous:Gratitude for faith, faithfulness, holiness, Spiritual Courage/Fortitude, Love of Christ in the Eucharist
Sorrowful: Doing God’s Will, Mortification of what causes us to sin, Reign of Christ, Patience, Forgiveness
Glorious: Faith, Hope, Gift of the Spirit, Letting Mary lead us to Christ, Final perseverence.

Mary possessed all of these things throughout her own earthly pilgrimage, that’s why we ask her to lead us to her Son and why we pray the ‘Hail Mary’. Essentially, we are asking her to teach us to faithful follow Christ as she did. The number 10, signifies completeness or wholeness. By praying the ‘Hail Mary’ ten times per each set of mysteries, we are praying that God grants us through Mary, complete and total, faith, hope, love of neighbor, ect. God grants everything through Mary, because it was through Mary, everything (in the person of Christ) came to us. In other words, it’s an acknowledgement of the Incarnation. Mary plays a prominent role in our lives, because the Incarnation plays the most prominent role in our lives.

MARY,MY MOTHER
EMPTY THE BLESSING OF YOUR SPIRIT UPON ME.
WHEN MY HEART IS HARD AND PARCHED UP
COME UPON ME WITH A SHOWER OF MERCY.
WHEN MY BEGGARLY HEART SITS CROUCHED
SHUT UP IN A CORNER
BREAK UPON THE DOOR…
WHEN DESRIRE BLINDS THE MIND WITH DELUSION/DUST
O THOU HOLY ONE,THOU WAKEFUL
COME WITH THY LIGHT AND THUNDER.
AMEN.

Let’s put this in a more earthly setting.

“Mom”, asked Kelly one day, “Can we talk?”
“Sure Honey”, her Mom sweetly replied, “What’s on your mind?”
Kelly sighed, “I’ve had a really rough day, can you sit with me for awhile?”
Kelly snuggles up against her mom, who joined her on the couch.
“Ah, everytime I’m with you, I feel so comforted. You’ve been such a blessing to me Mom. You give and give and give of yourself. How do you have anything left?!”
“I’m your mother…it’s what mothers do”
“Mom, if you hadn’t been here when I got home, I think I would have gone straight to my room, shut the door and hid under the covers!”
“And I would have broke open that door and sat by your bed!”
At that they both began to laugh. Her mother continued,
“I’ll always be here for you darling. You’ll always be my baby. By God’s grace, I’ll always watch over you, protecting you, sparing you from the world’s delusions.Sleep now. Let the day’s trouble sweep away like dust. I have you in my arms. Rest.”
“You’re my light mom and my thunder”
They both laughed again, this time quietly, remembering the times Kelly’s mom would yell from the apartment balcony to the street below, “Watch out for that car Kelly!”, “John, leave Kelly alone, before I call your mother!” “Kelly, did you scrape your knee?” “Come up for dinner…I have a whole pot of Chili!”
“Everyone in the neighborhood could hear you Mom! But you always looked out for me, although I think you scared little Johnny half-to-death!”
“He wasn’t too scared to come over for supper and empty 4 bowls of chili!”
“You always looked out for me mom. You’d even stay awake til 10 at night, to make sure I had gotten home okay from the school football games. How much sleep you must have lost over me!”
“I will always look out for you Kelly. Sleep now. Your head will clear and you’ll feel refreshed if you can sleep.”
“I can.”
And with that Kelly fell asleep in her mother’s arms.

Of course, one can and should address Jesus directly in prayer; however, this does not negate Mary’s role. The question is a good one and possesses some complexity. All of the attributes of mercy and love attributed to Mary find their ultimate source in the Lord. The unity between the Mother and her divine Son is very intimate and unbreakable. Even when we address our prayers to Jesus or show him homage, we are also honoring his Mother and invoking her assistance. Mary rejoices when we come to her Son, no matter what the path. The Dominican priest, Fr. Jelly wrote that in this sense, even the most fundamentalist of Protestants are showing their respect to Mary in their devotion to Christ. Conversely, God is honored when we honor Mary. God loves us to honor Mary as a Father is pleased when his daughter is honored. All the honor we give to Mary is reflected back to God since we honor her for what He has done for her, with her, and through her. When we honor her, we honor Him. When Catholics address Mary, it is because there is something about her maternal qualities which soothe our souls and remind us of the great company of heaven– the home to which we hope to one day enter. Even in human families, the love and help of parents could just as well come from one parent or the other; but sometimes we want the strength of our fathers and at other times the feminine touch of our mothers. Mary is a creature, not God like her Son, and yet her abiding proximity and union to Christ makes her a fitting figure for our prayers. We reverence her, as we do all the saints, but true worship is addressed to God alone. Otherwise, we would fall into idolatry. Christ is our only mediator (1 Tim. 2:5-6) with the Father, but Mary can intercede (pray for us) with her Son Jesus. Jesus worked his first miracle at her request ( Jn. 2:1-12). Just as we can ask other members of the church on earth to pray for us (1 Tim. 2:1; 2 Tim. 1:3; Phil. 4:22), so too, can we ask members of the church in heaven to pray for us (Rv. 5:8; 6:9-11; 7:10-12; 8:2-6; Mt. 22:31, 32).

We are also called to imitation of Christ. Did Jesus follow the commandments? Sure. Including the fourth commandment? Yes. Then if Jesus honored Mary his Mother and took her direction seriously, would this commandment be abrogated in heaven? Further, if Mary is given to us as our Spiritual Mother, are we not to pay the same respect to her as he did– imitating Christ even in this? Yes. The honor we give Mary our Spiritual Mother in no way subtracts from the worship we give to God any more than honoring our earthly mother does. In fact, it conforms to God’s holy will, and we who are adopted sons of God honor her whom the Son honored.

2. Why must Mary intercede? And what if she doesn’t want to? Does that mean your prayers are not heard by Jesus? I guess this question goes for praying to all the Saints.

Why? How can she not? If you are watching a football game and the receiver gets the ball, are you not rooting him on to victory? The crowd becomes like one unified whole– shouting, singing, doing the wave, etc. This analogy offers but a pale point of reference to the role of Mary and the saints. We are all in this together– the journey from mortal to eternal life. The very definition of a saint makes what the division you suggest impossible. The sanctity of heaven implies the utter transformation of one into a new Christ– of one mind and will with our Lord. What he wants, they want. A little girl in church was asked one time for the definition of a saint. She looked at the figures in the stained-glass windows and replied, “Saints are those who allow the light to shine through.” Quite right! And the Light of the World is Christ, dispelling the darkness of ignorance, sin, and death. This process of conversion begins in this life; we can and should be perfected in holiness by the grace of God. We can be ever remade into Christ’s image. Heaven simply brings this development to its full conclusion. People who knew Mother Teresa said that to be near her was almost like being in the presence of Jesus– so fully did she manifest the living Christ in her faith and life. We can also become saints if we allow God to so work in our lives. We need to seek a restoration of all things in Christ, including ourselves. The question about division between the saints and Jesus says less about the heavenly hosts than about ourselves– our own brokenness and bondage to sin– our own refusal to fully embrace the Gospel of Life. Sometimes selfishness and hatred invade our prayers; such is never the case for Mary and the Saints. They are immaculate windows to the divine. Further, they are a part of us. The Church in Glory is inextricably united to the earthly Church in Glory and the Church in Purgation. The Mystical Body (Eph. 1:23; 1 Cor. 12:27) remains intact. The saints intercede for us precisely as perfectly conformed elements in this wondrous union. Death is not the end of love. This is at the heart of Christ’s resurrection– his Father’s Love (the Holy Spirit no less) restored him back to life. The family of God in heaven has not forgotten those of us still facing the trial. Love compels them to remember us and to pray for us.

3. Do Catholics pray to God, Jesus, Mary, Saints, and all of the above? How is praying to a saint different than praying to God? My Christianity claims that God will listen to all prayers. If Catholics believe that (do they?) Why are they praying to saints?

Some of these concerns I have already briefly addressed. Over the last two thousand years, Catholic Christians have done much discernment regarding prayer and spiritual matters. Obvious structures in our prayers have been formulated. Note that at Mass, most orations are addressed to God as Father. Oftentimes prayers will end with a statement that it is offered “through” Christ our Lord and with some possible mention of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is again and again affirmed as the one Mediator to the Father. We also believe in the Trinity: that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is important because certain modern-day Arians and Messianic Jews deny the divinity of Christ– a fact that would immediately alter prayer. God does listen to all prayers and as I have said before, the invocation of a saint to pray with us to God does not negate this reality. All prayer is properly addressed to God. If a prayer is answered, it is because of the intervention of God. Mary and the Saints have now power of their own– they are creatures; however, God has chosen to work closely with and in us. Your question here would better be rendered: what are the four purposes of prayer?

* Adoration: Proper worship of God due to Him as our Creator.
* Thanksgiving: Gratefulness to God for His gifts to us.
* Reparation: To obtain pardon for sins and to do penance.
* Petition: We ask for spiritual and physical goods.

I hope this helps to alleviate the confusion you have about the oldest form of Christianity and our prayer practices. And, again, I do hope you are sincere. Sometimes anti-Catholic fundamentalists ask questions, not because they honestly want to understand the faith, but because they hope to trip up ignorant Catholics as part of a prosletyzation effort. May the Lord Jesus bless and keep you.

God in fact commanded to make images.

(Ex. 25:18–20) “And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be”

(1 Chr. 28:18–19) David gave Solomon the plan “for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan”

(Ezekiel 41:17–18) 17 From the door to the inner part of the Temple, as well as outside, and on the wall all round, both inside and out,18 were carved great winged creatures and palm trees, one palm tree between two winged creatures; each winged creature had two faces:
19 a human face turned towards the palm tree on one side and the face of a lion towards the palm tree on the other side, throughout the Temple, all round “

Please refer comment # 284 by Fr. Johan Paul Gill. Do you get the prophesy mentioned there? I repeat here again because you don’t seem to read that and reply to that at all. Why is that? Anyway, During a plague of serpents sent to punish the Israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to “make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live” (Num. 21:8–9).

One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to be healed.
That’s what we do. “we LOOK at the crucifix from our spiritual eyes” . We look and pray, talk to Jesus in our hearts, in our minds.

We ask intercession of Mother Mary and saints by looking at their images or without. They are in our hearts. There is no death for spirits. Only body perishes for a reason and even that will be united to the soul. You are better informed about heaven than I am. Yes , I very much believe in hell & purgatory too.

Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. In (Matt. 2:11) We read that when the magi were “going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshipped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold, frankincense, and myrrh”

In the Old Testament, God had not revealed Himself so he forbade use of images. Then He revealed Himself in –Daniel 7:9: “As I looked, thrones were placed and one that was Ancient of Days took his seat; his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames, its wheels were burning fire.”

Even Holy Spirit revealed two forms as a dove & tongues of fire. Heard some protestants use biblical representations as pictures, greeting cards etc.! What’s with that? Even my best friend who is a protestant has pictures of passion of Christ! Which denomination do you belong to? Heard there are many..which will be ultimately saved? If others are going to be condemned to hell. There is only one Church right?

Finally, a protestant who kneels with a Bible in his hands when praying is worshiping the Bible or praying to it? Do you meditate the WORD Of GOD in it or worship the paper, book, ink?

Of course, one can and should address Jesus directly in prayer; however, this does not negate Mary’s role.

It does not negate? it does not exist in the first place. She hasnt promised to do any roles for us just like Jesus has promised. Its bcz Mary is not possible to promise you anything. Only Jesus can. Thats why Jesus promised to hear our prayers, answer us, promised to BE WITH US, said that He is the Only way thru which one can see God the Father etc. Mary HAS NEVER EVER done any such promises.

QuoteWe are also called to imitation of Christ.
Yes true. We are called to IMITATE Christ. IT never says that we BECOME the Christ. Are you saying that you can be God (by this reference)?

@Father: Are you trying to justify things you do out of the Bible with your traditional catechism teachings. Many of those teachings are anti-christian, anti-biblical. They are devilish, hell-bound.

Again:
why do you pray to a Creation rather than a Creator? Whom will u face in judgemtn seat – the Creator God Jesus or some created humans?

Its just grave injustice to the pain and suffering that our Lord Jesus alone endured while dying for you and me on the cross. What then has made you to obey the deceptions of the pagan traditions that have crept into our church?

Jesus is the only one who said: I am the Way.
What does Mary say ? Nothing.

Jesus said: No man can see the Father except THROUGH ME (JESUS) This is a promise too.
What does Mary promise us?

Jesus – he is our Creator God.
Mary – like all of us, a creation only.

Jesus – is alive in the resurrected body.
Mary – her body is rot in her grave here on earth just as all the saints of Christ.

Did she resurrect? NO.
Did Jesus resurrect? YES. Thats why He is the ONLY INTERCESSOR between God (heaven) and man (on earth).

Catholics are interested NOT in Jesus nor in following Him. But in following the traditions which is directly from the paganistic, devilish, straight from hell teachings. They exalt, pray, worship & pray to Mary, saints and that too, they worship THESE CREATIONS more than the Creator GOD JESUS. How big a earth shattering disgraceful injustice they do to our Lord Jesus. How conveniently they go to any extent to disobey Jesus and try to justify it with their pagan traditions!

Last but not the least – when you do all these to Mary, remember, its the devil who gets it – whether it be worhsip, prayer, or your request to her. Not Mary.
The points mentioned above are the reasons for that.

When I intercede for others, I don’t take the role of Jesus – role of standing between Man and God the Father.

Mary is not alive BUT she is asleep in Christ. Waiting for the trumpet blow to rise up in the resurrected bodies along with all other saints. Only Jesus Christ is resurrected from the dead as a FORERUNNER for us.

bye, God bless.
danioct@yahoo.com – perhaps if anyone would want.

Last but not the least When you do all these to Mary, remember, its the devil who gets it; whether it be worhsip, prayer, or your request to her. Not Mary.
The points mentioned above are the reasons for that.

if i asked him-”so all the healings, miracles at the places like Lourdes, Vellankani etc. have been performed by the devil?”

Dani would say- “yes” {although i know he is not brave enough to say yes or no}

(a blind man got sight at Lourdes, recorded event not a fake story, Louis BOURIETTE born in 1804, approved by International Medical Committee of Lourdes)
Me-”Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?”Jn 10:21
Dani- …..

what i have learnt is,”to reject God’s works saying those to be devilish is a sin against the Holy Spirit” which is unforgivable.

read Mark 3:22-30

Mk:3:29: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Mk:3:30: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

commenting on this thread has really been tiresome and seems to be useless but perhaps it has somehow been helpful to some of my catholic brethren, i myself have learnt a lot by reading comments of both sides.

Wrong statement. Catholics are divided on this. Some say they worship (yea not some – but almost ALL). Some others say, they dont actually worship but only bow down. Catholics only bow down to the idol of Mary – naming that as reverence. Oh dear! I know you are innocent – it’s the Romans who brought these idol worships and Mary worships and indoctrinated your church. Not Jesus, not Peter, not any Jesus Apostles.

And for your info – devils too can perform miracles. These devils come thru people whom Jesus refers to as “false prophets”. Any healing from anyone else other than thru Jesus – is from the devil. I know many occults, wiccans, satanists too who performs miracles and healings. WHat do you say about that!

Friends – God completely forbids and condemns worship to Mary or saints, or praying to Mary or saints. It is a direct rebellion to the Word of God which says thus regarding worship and idol worhsips:
Matt. 4:10 We are to worship and serve only the Lord.

Phil. 2:10 At the name of Jesus (not Mary), every knee shall bow.

I have put the bible verses here – not my verses. None of Christ teachings EVER tell to worship her or pray to her. Praying to her – is DISHONORING her. SOrry to say that.
I can show MANY MANY more references for Catholics worship TO Mary, Prayer TO Mary, Bowing to Mary. And the catholics try to say what? When Jesus Christ is the Only one who took ALL your sins on the Cross – you say “pray to Mary, Bow to Mary, Hail to Mary” what?

How long will you rebel against God and continue this horrible sin. You defamed God by doing these things.

We have to give FULL respect to God’s people including Mary. If we worship her and pray to her – we DISHONOR her. Hell fire awaits such. Read the Bible to know more. The Word of God is God breathed.

JOHN 19:26-27 — When Jesus saw His mother there, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Dear woman, here is your son,” and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.”

You know what people…. this clearly conveys that Jesus had forsaken Mary as his mother as he addresses her by the words “Dear woman”. Else if it was for any dying son who loved his mother, he would address his mother by calling her a mother. A good son would never give his mother the status of a simple woman while he is dying. People!! Here Jesus was Dying. And he called up his disciple and ordered him to take care of his mother mary and consoled his mother by gifting him another earthly son. That’s all what it is.

Jesus said “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the (God)Father but by Me(Jesus)”.
Repent and confess Jesus and not Mary whom you should worship

PEOPLE LET GO OFF WHAT THE MEN TEACH YOU. FOLLOW WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES YOU. THE IDEA OF WORSHIPING MARY HAS ONLY BEEN DECIPHERED FROM THE TEST WITH THE HELP OF NUMEROUS REFERENCES FROM THE LINES OF THE HOLY BOOK. THE PURPOSE OF THESE WORDS OF THE BIBLE WAS NOT TO CONFUSE THE BELIEVERS AS TO WHO HAS TO BE WORSHIPED AND ADORED. THAT IS WHY THE BIBLE CLEARLY TALKS ABOUT WORSHIPING GOD AND GOD CAN ONLY BE WORSHIPED THROUGH JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS.

READ THE BIBLE AND THINK ABOUT JESUS, NOT ABOUT ANY OTHER NATURAL OR SUPERNATURAL BEING. JESUS LOVES YOU ALL. FALL IN LOVE WITH JESUS. ADMIRE HIS WAYS. THANK HIM FOR WHAT HE IS AND WHAT HE HAS MADE YOU. BELIEVE IN JESUS AND TRUST HIS FAITH.

MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND SHOW THE LOST ONES THE WAY.

IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.

AMEN!!

God bless as you joyously celebrate His resurrection.

@Cheryl says:
But it is my fervent prayer that every Protestant here makes peace with the Catholic Church

Analyse the protester here:
God said not to make any idols for yourselves – but Catholics make idols of Mary and saints. You protest to God! (In the case of seraphims and the bronze serpent, it was God who instructed these makings. But God did not instruct to make idols of any others! He rather instructs clearly NOT TO MAKE any idols. Neither Bow down to them.)

God said – not to bow down NOR worship any graven images. But the catholics – bow down AND worship the graven image. What is this act called? Protest! More accurately – a DIRECT REBELLION against God. Still the Catholics call those who obey the Word – protestants? Go ahead! Who stops u or who wants to stop you! My friend – even the devil accuses those who follow Him. He doesnt accuse those who worship Mary bcz he knows very well that it (Mary worship) is one of his own inventions.

@Preethi: abt your comment on the seed of the woman on #327. Here, i am putting the verse for all to read:
“And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” -Genesis 3:15

WHo will bruise the head of the serpent? Who will crush the head of the serpent?
The verse refers that person is the seed of the woman. That is Jesus Christ! not Mary.

Addeline: I would want to study this before commenting. Also, it’s not judging – the word judges us all – I believe in the Bible for Genesis to Revelation and no where have i found about praying to Mary or to dead saints. We can only pray to God through Jesus.

John 16:23 Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name (Jesus), he will give it you.

florence – we honor mary for being the mother of Jesus but that’s it I do not pray to her. and she is not “my” mother and i’ve seen lately that the catholic church is teach that she was God’s wife – that’s a lie.

John:We do not put BLESSED MOTHER before JESUS or GOD we know the only way to GOD is by JESUS, but we do reconize the BLESSED MOTHER as the mother of our SAVIOR, JESUS had 9 months to become one in is mother she is also the flesh of CHRIST and GOD will not see her body cruupt at death so he took her body and soul to HEAVEN. We do not replace BLESSED MOTHER over our LORD, but we do respect who she is.